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Post by Guest on 26/01/15, 10:00 am

A few of our NTX teams got first hand experience with some of those lowly ranked gotsoccer teams.

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Post by ParadoxTX on 26/01/15, 10:40 am

The hypothesis above isn't correct. You don't keep getting a large number of points for playing a captured pool of teams. You receive a large number of points from beating a team significantly above you, you get the most for winning a tournament that has a large number of top teams in it. The more you play against new teams with top points the more you win. Eventually if all you do is play second level teams is a small increase and if you never play outside of your local area you will only receive small increases unless someone in your area plays and wins in a bigger format and then you beat them which again supports the points you would have because if you beat a team that beat other top teams the view would be you could have beat them too.

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Post by slrsoccer on 26/01/15, 10:48 am

The rankings should be used as a barometer, nothing more and nothing less.

It isn't hard to understand which teams have racked up points against weaker competition in silver brackets of tournaments.

As is with any rankings systems, there are anomalies but if you go down the list of U11 girls no one can argue that the list is too far off. It may not account for how teams in different regions would stack up against each other but it does a pretty good job in identifying the top teams in each state and region.

Also, I would find it very hard to believe that any team that is truly a top team is deciding to play in tournaments or not play in tournaments based on the amount of points that are available.

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Post by ParadoxTX on 26/01/15, 10:54 am

I'm not suggesting that teams are deciding to play or not play based on points I'm suggesting that as the teams progress in age it more accurrately reflects their ranking. With that said the points available also reflects the caliber for play and that would help teams decide where they want to go and at what level.

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Post by Guest on 26/01/15, 10:57 am

ParadoxTX wrote:The hypothesis above isn't correct. You don't keep getting a large number of points for playing a captured pool of teams. You receive a large number of points from beating a team significantly above you, you get the most for winning a tournament that has a large number of top teams in it. The more you play against new teams with top points the more you win. Eventually if all you do is play second level teams is a small increase and if you never play outside of your local area you will only receive small increases unless someone in your area plays and wins in a bigger format and then you beat them which again supports the points you would have because if you beat a team that beat other top teams the view would be you could have beat them too.

You only receive 300 points by beating a higher ranked team. Only 50 or 75 by beating state or regional champion.

The vast majority of highly ranked teams get their points hauls because of the flight values of the tournaments they enter. "Top" and "Second Level" have no relevance to flight values. All that matters for creating flight values is the average gotsoccer points of the 5 teams that already have the most points prior to the event. Those teams could be in D3,plano or not playing in any league....doesn't matter. The east coast parents are very knowledgeable about how gotsoccer points work...read their debates and they calculate when points roll off, anticipated flight values, etc. etc. You absolutely can build up a high gotsoccer ranking playing only locally, as long as other teams in that local area consistently do the same.

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Post by go99 on 26/01/15, 11:48 am

gotsoccer is useful but nothing trumps resume and gotsoccer also provides that. You can see if the team is state champ or won their home league. Surf cup champ resonates more that a ton of points from minor tournaments. gotsoccer allows you to peek into a teams resume and see if there is substance
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Post by Guest on 26/01/15, 12:19 pm

go99 wrote:gotsoccer is useful but nothing trumps resume and gotsoccer also provides that.  You can see if the team is state champ or won their home league.  Surf cup champ resonates more that a ton of points from minor tournaments. gotsoccer allows you to peek into a teams resume and see if there is substance

Exactly. You typed a more succinct version of what I tried to get across with 10 paragraphs. Very Happy

But I will reiterate, if the top 15 teams in NTX played each other regularly starting at u11, NTX local tournaments would be as highly ranked in gotsoccer flight values as those of any other region.

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Post by ParadoxTX on 26/01/15, 12:23 pm

Ironically NTX local tournaments are that highly ranked for most age groups 14 you will see that the NTX teams are not highly ranked Nationally not because they didn't play each other locally but because they weren't as strong. You can't stay a big fish in a little pond forever and maintain a top ranking.

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Post by ParadoxTX on 26/01/15, 12:25 pm

Okay the import removed the under and over. NTX teams under fifteen are highly ranked and NTX teams over fourteen are not.

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Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on 26/01/15, 12:34 pm

4-3-3 wrote:
go99 wrote:gotsoccer is useful but nothing trumps resume and gotsoccer also provides that.  You can see if the team is state champ or won their home league.  Surf cup champ resonates more that a ton of points from minor tournaments. gotsoccer allows you to peek into a teams resume and see if there is substance

Exactly. You typed a more succinct version of what I tried to get across with 10 paragraphs. Very Happy

But I will reiterate, if the top 15 teams in NTX played each other regularly starting at u11, NTX local tournaments would be as highly ranked in gotsoccer flight values as those of any other region.

There is truth to this.. NTX has 6 teams that are Diamond level in gotSoccer.  If each of these teams where scheduled in the same flight (Brackets) got points will be anywhere between 9000-10000 points.. Prime example would have been 214 DTSC Fall Festival flight value was awarded 9500 but since the tournament didn't finish out, no one got the points..

http://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/event.aspx?EventID=37951&GroupID=348281


Last edited by Son_ofa_Pitch on 26/01/15, 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest on 26/01/15, 12:35 pm

ParadoxTX wrote:Okay the import removed the under and over. NTX teams under fifteen are highly ranked and NTX teams over fourteen are not.


That's because NTX has 5 ecnl teams in one market, and only the ecnl teams that continue to compete against non ecnl clubs will have any got soccer points after u14.

You're not understanding that there doesn't have to be any relationship between the strength of a team or a tournament, and its # of gotsoccer points. Sometimes there is, sometimes there isnt.

List for me the NTX tournaments that have 10,000 pt flight values in any age group. I doubt you will find a single one.

I can list for you the tournaments that WOULD if the top local comp was willing to play each other on a more regular basis.

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Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on 26/01/15, 12:41 pm

4-3-3 wrote:
ParadoxTX wrote:Okay the import removed the under and over. NTX teams under fifteen are highly ranked and NTX teams over fourteen are not.


That's because NTX has 5 ecnl teams in one market, and only the ecnl teams that continue to compete against non ecnl clubs will have any got soccer points after u14.

You're not understanding that there doesn't have to be any relationship between the strength of a team or a tournament, and its # of gotsoccer points. Sometimes there is, sometimes there isnt.

List for me the NTX tournaments that have 10,000 pt flight values in any age group. I doubt you will find a single one.

I can list for you the tournaments that WOULD if the top local comp was willing to play each other on a more regular basis.

http://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/event.aspx?EventID=37951&GroupID=348281
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Post by ParadoxTX on 26/01/15, 12:46 pm

I think it would be simpler to say look at the top Got Soccer teams at older age brackets and see if they played only local tournaments to run the points up.

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Post by Guest on 26/01/15, 01:59 pm

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:
4-3-3 wrote:
ParadoxTX wrote:Okay the import removed the under and over. NTX teams under fifteen are highly ranked and NTX teams over fourteen are not.


That's because NTX has 5 ecnl teams in one market, and only the ecnl teams that continue to compete against non ecnl clubs will have any got soccer points after u14.

You're not understanding that there doesn't have to be any relationship between the strength of a team or a tournament, and its # of gotsoccer points. Sometimes there is, sometimes there isnt.

List for me the NTX tournaments that have 10,000 pt flight values in any age group. I doubt you will find a single one.

I can list for you the tournaments that WOULD if the top local comp was willing to play each other on a more regular basis.

http://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/event.aspx?EventID=37951&GroupID=348281

Great example. And with the talent in this area, this could be the norm for most our major local tournaments across most age groups.

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Post by ParadoxTX on 26/01/15, 02:57 pm

Yeah I'm understanding it however if you look at the over 14 age brackets they are also ECNL, play each other in every local tournament worth a darn and yet they aren't racking points or have even a team in a high spot on the national rankings. It's not as simple as you'd like to make it.

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Post by Guest on 26/01/15, 03:33 pm

ParadoxTX wrote:Yeah I'm understanding it however if you look at the over 14 age brackets they are also ECNL, play each other in every local tournament worth a darn and yet they aren't racking points or have even a team in a high spot on the national rankings. It's not as simple as you'd like to make it.

Sorry, im not following. Dallas ecnl teams rarely play any tournaments where non ecnl teams compete in the same brackets (i.e. any showcase using gotsoccer will rarely have any ntx ecnl teams).

Further, gotsoccer points have little to no relevance for said ecnl teams anyway. They are guaranteed access to ecnl showcases, so their gotsoccer track record has no impact on their players. Im talking about u13 and below anyway...the perceived strength of the tournaments (flight values) feeds itself and is a bit like compounding interest. The end result is you end up attracting more comp to come here during the early years, and u reduce NTX travel costs at ages when it really shouldn't be a barrier to participation. Of course if you're truly a stud team you can fly all over the country and build up a gotsoccer national ranking winning national events...but it looks silly when socal and northeast can do the same thing at a fraction of the cost.

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Post by slrsoccer on 26/01/15, 04:03 pm

There has been a flagrant breach of NTX tournament "guest" player code as defined on txsoccer.net in Section 421.3 part C of "U11 girls guide to tournament participation and ongoing poster idiocy" handbook.

It clearly states that a) A team may not use a combined color in referencing the combination of teams within the same club (ie. Black/White = Grey or Red/Blue = Green) when 1) players from the lesser of the two teams participate with the better team 2)< 50% of the better teams tournament roster is made up of players from the lesser team 3)> 50% of the betters team goals are scored by lesser teams players or 4)1 or more goalkeepers from lessor team participating on better team has more than 2 shutouts in said tournament or 4.1)Goalkeeper makes 2 or more penalty saves or 4.2)Goalkeeper wins tournament via PK's (in the championship match only)

The handbook clearly states you can only use combined colors to describe teams when players from the better team play on the lesser team and do not compete in the top flight of the tournament.

Get it straight.  I expect better from you lot.


Last edited by slrsoccer on 26/01/15, 04:37 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by KnKsDad on 26/01/15, 04:14 pm

What is that about violating the poster idiocy code? lol

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Post by ParadoxTX on 26/01/15, 05:02 pm

I think the poster was violated but that's a different post. lol!

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Post by Guest on 26/01/15, 05:13 pm

There is also a little-known codicil in the NTX soccer constitution which gives JM unlimited power to preserve order in time of forum emergency, by bestowing the color Magenta upon any Kicks team entered in a tournament so as to fully disguise the makeup of the tournament roster...

Any other club caught attempting to use this tactic will be put on double-secret forum probation...

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Post by kick_tha_ball on 26/01/15, 08:36 pm

Who gives a crap about this? Unless organization is gonna go to every region and invite the top teams to come play in a national tournament and all teams show, this is all moot. Plus, unless your an ego maniac who lives through your DD what does it really matter at 10 yrs old? And again, not all regions play the same game!
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Post by Guest on 26/01/15, 09:00 pm

kick_tha_ball wrote:Who gives a crap about this? Unless organization is gonna go to every region and invite the top teams to come play in a national tournament and all teams show, this is all moot. Plus, unless your an ego maniac who lives through your DD what does it really matter at 10 yrs old? And again,  not all regions play the same game!

Rankings are fun for banter. Everyone says they dont care about them, but somehow rankings threads generate the most discussion and get a ton of views.

Americans rank things. Its what we do. Topdrawersoccer has made a business from ranking every possible thing you can think of to rank in American soccer. Even coaches who might publicly say rankings are stupid will get a little boast in on social media if their team is recognized by a ranking site. Its like reality tv....everyone claims it's low class garbage not worth watching, but the execs look at the ratings and the truth tells a different story.

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Post by kick_tha_ball on 26/01/15, 09:15 pm

Your right. We do like to rank things and it is fun at times. But going on for 2-3 pages, and I'm sure it will get longer, about where a 10yr girls team is ranked and doing actual research as to how many points are awarded for playing this team in that tournament is pointless. By the time they're 16 half these girls won't even be playing soccer. Let's just enjoy it while we can.
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Post by Guest on 26/01/15, 09:38 pm

TOP 10 TXN POSTERS OF ALL TIME

1. KENSHI DAVE - if you dont know...ask somebody
2. DallasDude - see #1
3. SWEEPER - prolific
4. BWGOPHERS - would be higher, but sold his soul to big blue PR machine in his later years
5 - 10 Don't belong in the same tier with top 4 so not worrh mentioning.

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Post by ParadoxTX on 27/01/15, 09:13 am

Wow a lot of literal people here. The rankings aren't about how high your DD is other than in relation to the teams you are playing. I certainly don't want to watch my daughter play a team that we either dominate on the score board or just dominate in possession. The rankings give you an idea of what kind of talent you are playing, your coaches have an idea of what tournaments may be worth competing with and at what level.

As for regions and different style of play it's why matchups work or don't work but that goes in the rankings so if these teams aren't competitive with your DD then you skip that tourney or move up in a level there if you can.

As for 5-10 not being competitive depends on the age group and it changes as more talent developes but as with anything there is a limited number of top players in every location and in DFW D1 at LH has always had top tier and bottom tier.

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Post by Guest on 27/01/15, 10:13 am

4-3-3 wrote:TOP 10 TXN POSTERS OF ALL TIME

1. KENSHI DAVE - if you dont know...ask somebody
2. DallasDude - see #1
3. SWEEPER - prolific
4. BWGOPHERS - would be higher, but sold his soul to big blue PR machine in his later years
5 - 10 Don't belong in the same tier with top 4 so not worrh mentioning.

Yeah, but Sweeper WAS the Big Blue PR machine for a year! affraid

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