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Post by KeeperCommander 03/08/15, 10:30 am

OLJW wrote:It's not that I think they suck. However a "platinum level" team can't score 5 goals in six games against mostly DIII to Plano level teams and think everything is great. Just an observation

That's not an observation....it's a hallucination.  Fever played 6 teams over the last 2 weekends. 3 of those teams are now in D1. Fever's record against those teams was 1-1-1 with 2GF  1GA. 2 other teams they played made D3, Fever drew with both of them. Fever only played one team that didn't qualify, but don't let the facts get in the way.  Go ahead and spout some more ignorant garbage.

Kind of my point don't you think. Yes Fever played 6 teams over the last two weekends and 3 of those teams are in fact in D1. However the point I was making is someone has to win the brackets. Therefore anyone besides the lowest seed winning is an upset. Fever was in my book the favorite, and did not win. So in my opinion they played bad, since they did not play to the level they should have. Correct? If you are telling me that you or anyone associated with team is happy about the way they played, then I believe you are the hallucinating.

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Post by Guest 03/08/15, 11:49 am

It is interesting that you have an ax to grind with the D3 team that scored 2 goals against D1 teams, but you have nothing to say about the 3 D1 teams that combine for 1 goal against Fever.

The truth is, this discussion goes far, far deeper than ANY one team. What it truly boils down to is the
1- physical maturity of players that make up a team
2- is a Coach willing to exploit a specific tactic to get a result?

I'll elaborate on both points
1. At age U-11, all the coordination and experience is not not fully developed yet, ESPECIALLY EXPERIENCE. If you have a MOSTLY developed, highly experienced player at U-11, you have the exception, not the rule.
 
2.Except for the top 7-10 teams, you can exploit this lack of coordination and experience by continuously launching long balls at their back line. Give'm 30-40 long balls per game, chances are they're gonna misplay 1 or 2 or 3 and your forward is in on goal. On the defensive side, if you get in trouble, just kick it, kick anywhere but into the goal.  Both of these tactics will work at THIS AGE, but it won't work against the best teams right now and it won't work against hardly anybody 2 years from now. Any team that  is employing this tactic right now is learning nothing, thereby hamstringing their own future.  While they are learning nothing, other teams are learning how to deal with the long ball to the back line and improving their movement, passing  and finishing in the attacking 1/3.

At U-13 there will still be 2-3 teams playing long ball to the back line and just kick it on defense. Those teams will be at the bottom of D3 and on the way out the door.

Fever does not play that, will not play that and is in the perfect spot to continue developing a passing, moving, team attack.

We should revisit this is 9 months. I contend that some of the teams cheering the loudest in July and Aug are going to have very, very little to cheer about for the next 9 months. It's really a question of short term goals vs long term goals (no pun intended). Fever doesn't sacrifice it's long term goals to expedite it's short term goals. They're 10 & 11 year old girls, no one can tell what's gonna happen, but let's check back in 9 months to see who's in trouble? I'm betting it AIN'T FEVER.

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Post by Almost_Human 03/08/15, 01:14 pm

I don't spend much time at all on this blogging site but when I do I tend to be looking for meaningful and useful information. I find it completely ridiculous to see how much time and energy is expended beating up on A soccer team (Fever) made up of 10 year old girls. I am almost certain that no college scout ever asked a high school coach how little Sally played at 10 years old.
Now go ahead and smack talk me about this post as I'm sure you will.

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Post by backofthenet 03/08/15, 03:22 pm

No college coach ever asks a high school coach anything.

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Post by Almost_Human 03/08/15, 04:34 pm

LOL! Couldn't help yourself could you?

College scout. Not coach. Your turn.
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Post by KeeperCommander 03/08/15, 05:26 pm

OLJW wrote:It is interesting that you have an ax to grind with the D3 team that scored 2 goals against D1 teams, but you have nothing to say about the 3 D1 teams that combine for 1 goal against Fever.

The truth is, this discussion goes far, far deeper than ANY one team. What it truly boils down to is the
1- physical maturity of players that make up a team
2- is a Coach willing to exploit a specific tactic to get a result?

I'll elaborate on both points
1. At age U-11, all the coordination and experience is not not fully developed yet, ESPECIALLY EXPERIENCE. If you have a MOSTLY developed, highly experienced player at U-11, you have the exception, not the rule.
 
2.Except for the top 7-10 teams, you can exploit this lack of coordination and experience by continuously launching long balls at their back line. Give'm 30-40 long balls per game, chances are they're gonna misplay 1 or 2 or 3 and your forward is in on goal. On the defensive side, if you get in trouble, just kick it, kick anywhere but into the goal.  Both of these tactics will work at THIS AGE, but it won't work against the best teams right now and it won't work against hardly anybody 2 years from now. Any team that  is employing this tactic right now is learning nothing, thereby hamstringing their own future.  While they are learning nothing, other teams are learning how to deal with the long ball to the back line and improving their movement, passing  and finishing in the attacking 1/3.

At U-13 there will still be 2-3 teams playing long ball to the back line and just kick it on defense. Those teams will be at the bottom of D3 and on the way out the door.

Fever does not play that, will not play that and is in the perfect spot to continue developing a passing, moving, team attack.

We should revisit this is 9 months. I contend that some of the teams cheering the loudest in July and Aug are going to have very, very little to cheer about for the next 9 months. It's really a question of short term goals vs long term goals (no pun intended). Fever doesn't sacrifice it's long term goals to expedite it's short term goals. They're 10 & 11 year old girls, no one can tell what's gonna happen, but let's check back in 9 months to see who's in trouble? I'm betting it AIN'T FEVER.

In that entire 7 paragraph dissertation on soccer coaching philosophy you never once touched on my point at all. Congratulations that was excellent.

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Post by Guest 03/08/15, 06:47 pm

9 months

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Post by 0509girlssoocer 03/08/15, 11:29 pm

I am new to reading these boards, after this week - i may not read them anymore - I am laughing at these posts. u11 are all new to select - They all had 2 a days for the last few weeks and several have been taking privates to improve isnt that what its about or should we all move out of the way so Fever can be in D1? I guess they should just have an auto invitation for Fever - forget the other teams. In 9 months, the other teams may not be cheering but will have learned a lot. What would you suggest that everyone else but fever not try to qualify? Not try to improve? Fever tried out and placed where they played. What is the big deal?

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Post by 0509girlssoocer 03/08/15, 11:33 pm

if they had perhaps played in King Tutt, they may have prepared a bit better and a better sample of what teams are out there. Simple. Fever will be fine and in 9 months they may be top of D3 whats wrong with that?

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Post by TxKpr 04/08/15, 12:02 am

Maybe not top in D3....
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Post by Anarchy 04/08/15, 07:30 am

0509girlssoocer wrote: if they had perhaps played in King Tutt, they may have prepared a bit better and a better sample of what teams are out there. Simple.  Fever will be fine and in 9 months they may be top of D3 whats wrong with that?  

Might be a good marketing plug for King Tutt.... "Two top 20 teams that played Puma Cup over King Tutt did not make D1, where will you play?"

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Post by Guest 04/08/15, 07:32 am

All of the debate got me curious, so I went back and took a look at recent history.  So here's one last piece of analysis.  I'll just put this out there and let you folks draw your own conclusions...

I took the '01-'04 FBR and QT results, and broke teams into 3 categories:
1)  Teams that were ranked in the top 20 of the final pre-QT FBR, but did not qualify for D1 at U11
2)  Teams that were ranked between 21-25 in the final pre-QT FBR, and qualified for D1 at U11
3)  Teams that were ranked 26 or below in the final pre-QT FBR, and qualified for D1 at U11

A RED entry signifies a negative move for a team (i.e. was relegated to a lower division, or the team broke up).
A GREEN entry signifies a positive move for a team (i.e. team was promoted to a higher division).
A BLACK entry signifies a neutral move (i.e. team remained in the same division)
N/A means the team did not play in LHGCL at that age group

Group 1:  Teams that were ranked in the top 20 of the final pre-QT FBR, but did not qualify for D1 at U11
05 LHQT bracket analysis - Page 13 _01_0414

Group 2:   Teams that were ranked between 21-25 in the final pre-QT FBR, and qualified for D1 at U11
05 LHQT bracket analysis - Page 13 _01_0411

Group 3:   Teams that were ranked 26 or below in the final pre-QT FBR, and qualified for D1 at U11
05 LHQT bracket analysis - Page 13 _01_0412

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Post by TaxiMom 04/08/15, 08:43 am

BWG, I already knew you were a numbers guy. Now I'm beginning to think you are a database guy when not at the soccer fields. Very Happy

But those ARE some interesting numbers. It would also be interesting to see the roster changes that occur in the following years. Unfortunately, that data is probably unobtainable. We could chase it all the way down the rabbit hole and look at all the variables. I'm guessing almost all of those teams saw significant roster changes. Thanks for the info. Now I will go mull over my DD's team and what their probable outcome will be. Sad

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Post by nortexmaker 04/08/15, 08:45 am

So if I follow the table, it would appear that 11 out of the 18 teams eventually got back to D2 or D1.

6 out of the 9 Top 20 teams got back to either D2 or D1.

This should be interesting to chart over time for the 05 teams like Fever, NTFC Black, Sting Sanchez, DT Stark, and DTS Lott who were all #2 LH seeds but did not make D1. Time will tell how many of them move up to D2 or D1 eventually.
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Post by YANKS ON THE PITCH 04/08/15, 01:22 pm

OLJW wrote:It is interesting that you have an ax to grind with the D3 team that scored 2 goals against D1 teams, but you have nothing to say about the 3 D1 teams that combine for 1 goal against Fever.

The truth is, this discussion goes far, far deeper than ANY one team. What it truly boils down to is the
1- physical maturity of players that make up a team
2- is a Coach willing to exploit a specific tactic to get a result?

I'll elaborate on both points
1. At age U-11, all the coordination and experience is not not fully developed yet, ESPECIALLY EXPERIENCE. If you have a MOSTLY developed, highly experienced player at U-11, you have the exception, not the rule.
 
2.Except for the top 7-10 teams, you can exploit this lack of coordination and experience by continuously launching long balls at their back line. Give'm 30-40 long balls per game, chances are they're gonna misplay 1 or 2 or 3 and your forward is in on goal. On the defensive side, if you get in trouble, just kick it, kick anywhere but into the goal.  Both of these tactics will work at THIS AGE, but it won't work against the best teams right now and it won't work against hardly anybody 2 years from now. Any team that  is employing this tactic right now is learning nothing, thereby hamstringing their own future.  While they are learning nothing, other teams are learning how to deal with the long ball to the back line and improving their movement, passing  and finishing in the attacking 1/3.

At U-13 there will still be 2-3 teams playing long ball to the back line and just kick it on defense. Those teams will be at the bottom of D3 and on the way out the door.

Fever does not play that, will not play that and is in the perfect spot to continue developing a passing, moving, team attack.

We should revisit this is 9 months. I contend that some of the teams cheering the loudest in July and Aug are going to have very, very little to cheer about for the next 9 months. It's really a question of short term goals vs long term goals (no pun intended). Fever doesn't sacrifice it's long term goals to expedite it's short term goals. They're 10 & 11 year old girls, no one can tell what's gonna happen, but let's check back in 9 months to see who's in trouble? I'm betting it AIN'T FEVER.
................OLJW, I think your spot on here with several points. One thing that I'm getting from your post is that you feel the "LONG BALL" is just used by teams in desperation who can not compete tactically in a possession game. I strongly disagree if this is what your saying, every team should be working possession, some do this better than others. BUT, If your coach is not teaching your team and child when to take a "LONG BALL" your team may also find themselves short on goal scoring opportunities and shots on goal. I hate kickball on the pitch more than most but 5-10 well placed strategic "LONG BALLS" per game can be beautiful game changers at any level and these "LONG BALLS" better be in your childs tool belt (Kicking and Receiving) if you want them to be a complete player. Possession skills should be a priority, but NEVER squash or hinder the ability of your great atheletes to go make some magic. That is the Beautiful Game!
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Post by Guest 04/08/15, 01:32 pm

I completely agree with all of that.

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Post by 05girls 04/08/15, 01:40 pm

...and, at what age does it become acceptable for a coach to adopt the "do what's necessary when presented with a specific situation" theory? In the college and pro ranks we all rail on the coach that doesn't make "adjustments". Lot of talk on here about "long ball". If this strategy works for a particular team at the expense of the team they are playing against, I would give kudos to the winning coach and tell the opposing/losing coach to spend more time working on defense.

Yanks is spot on.

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Post by unknowingmom 04/08/15, 02:11 pm

What about the coach teaching the long ball not making the adjustment when the other team is defending it. Makes for a pretty boring game.
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Post by orbitzone2000 04/08/15, 04:40 pm

You guys got it all wrong. This is the exact thing the USSF want to get out of! The long ball to the speedy forward on a field way to big for U9-U12. For years that's been the American game and we have been ridiculed for it across the world. Just in the last 4-6 years the USSF has gotten away from this rediculously non effective tactic. However non effective in the men's and women's international game this has become, it has been very successful at the youth level. Many coaches use this tactic to pickup meaningless wins on the youth level. First problem is understanding the win means nothing. This should be about the development in our youth and there is nothing developmental in sending long balls to speedy forwards or at defenders hoping for mistakes. Most uneducated soccer parents see this tactic as useful as long as it results in Goals. Meanwhile there are coaches out there that do teach ball control, Skills and promote our youth to be tactically sound to get out of trouble and use their teammates to move the ball around. This tactic is much more beneficial to our youths development. I believe in the new mandate USSF is suppose to ratify this month, there will be a rule change made incorporating a new line being put on the field. From my understanding on a goal kick and when the GK has the ball there will be a line, the requirement of the players will be to play the ball behind this line and no opposing player will be allowed to enter until the ball is played past said line, they will also not be allowing GK's to punt the ball. The GK will only be permitted to throw or roll the ball behind this line and then players will be allowed to enter the area once the ball is advanced. At first glance I thought WOW what a dumb rule!!! Then I stopped and said Hmmm... This is actually a great developmental rule. It will remove the long ball tactic because now every long ball out of bounds results in a change of Possesion and the other team has an opportunity to move the ball from their area. This also helps in forcing defenders to handle the ball from the back and move the ball forward at an advantage. This will promote better ball skills and smarter play. Simple Boot ball will result in many chance on your own goal. Hopefully the days of playing Long balls to defenders and hoping for mistakes from them will be over. Don't get me wrong, there is a time and a place for a beautiful ball over the top on a strikers foot, but I'm quite sure that's not what's being talked about here. These type of balls will always have a place in the game. All defenders should be developed to be able to handle that pressure of a long ball. Hopefully this rule accomplishes that. Until then we all have to deal with the Kick ball Teams and deep down we all know who they are!! cheers

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Post by dadof3 04/08/15, 04:55 pm

unknowingmom wrote:What about the coach teaching the long ball not making the adjustment when the other team is defending it. Makes for a pretty boring game.

I believe that was OLJW's point. Being taught the way to win is the long ball regardless of success will shake out and be frustrating in a year or two (disregarding current success), and those who were taught the ability to play a different style other than kick and run will see longer term success.

BTW- I saw Fever 05 play, and I think they would have been above the bottom of D1 had they qualified, but as it stands, they will be fine in D3...they had a goal shortage in the QT...so did a lot of teams. It doesn't mean you have a terrible team, it means you have to learn how to score more goals than you give up for the next year and come back the next year and try again or earn your way up the ladder the hard way...but more teams disband from U11 to U12 that were at the bottom of D1 than at the top of D3...

Will U11s give up some goals to kick and run teams? Of course. All U11 teams do...Will they learn how to defend against that. Of course. Will they beat the vast majority of those teams in time? Yes. And just like any other division, would the top of D3 be as good as the bottom of D1-YES, will the top of PPIL be as good as the bottom of D3-YES...it happens that way every year. Some teams catch fire "at the right time" and qualify only to wish they hadn't because at the end of U11 they are frustrated...others have "setbacks" that move them into a lower division, but whatever...eventually we all play the same kids anyway with CPP...
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Post by KeeperCommander 04/08/15, 06:36 pm

dadof3 wrote:
unknowingmom wrote:What about the coach teaching the long ball not making the adjustment when the other team is defending it. Makes for a pretty boring game.

I believe that was OLJW's point. Being taught the way to win is the long ball regardless of success will shake out and be frustrating in a year or two (disregarding current success), and those who were taught the ability to play a different style other than kick and run will see longer term success.

BTW- I saw Fever 05 play, and I think they would have been above the bottom of D1 had they qualified, but as it stands, they will be fine in D3...they had a goal shortage in the QT...so did a lot of teams.  It doesn't mean you have a terrible team, it means you have to learn how to score more goals than you give up for the next year and come back the next year and try again or earn your way up the ladder the hard way...but more teams disband from U11 to U12 that were at the bottom of D1 than at the top of D3...

Will U11s give up some goals to kick and run teams? Of course.  All U11 teams do...Will they learn how to defend against that.  Of course.  Will they beat the vast majority of those teams in time? Yes. And just like any other division, would the top of D3 be as good as the bottom of D1-YES, will the top of PPIL be as good as the bottom of D3-YES...it happens that way every year.  Some teams catch fire "at the right time" and qualify only to wish they hadn't because at the end of U11 they are frustrated...others have "setbacks" that move them into a lower division, but whatever...eventually we all play the same kids anyway with CPP...

What OLJW was meaning is the teams that rely on the long ball will very soon die by it.

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Post by itscalledfootball 05/08/15, 02:06 pm

It does frustrate me watching ugly long ball soccer. Nothing more frustrating when a midfielder blindly hoofs a ball down the middle of the field with no thought.
Possession with out purpose irritates me also . Or coaches asking there teams to play out of the back from goal kicks when the other team is applying high pressure. Soccer is a game of problem solving . if a team is pressing with a high defensive line play direct, if the opposition is dropping off build with shorter passing. To be continually successful you must be able to do both.
I also think teaching players how to deal with ball out of the air is a neglected practice. Being able to win headers on punts , goal kicks , throw ins , are crucial . That's how nearly 50 percent of play begins on restarts , in the air. If players are not comfortable winning aerial battles then its hard to get the ball on the ground and play passing football because your always going to be playing in your own third under pressure .

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Post by TatonkaBurger 10/08/15, 03:17 pm

Are the PPL placement schedules out yet?
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Post by Switchfoot 10/08/15, 07:11 pm

Looks like brackets are up for PPL

http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=47153&Gender=Girls&Age=11

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