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Post by Big Poppy on 19/08/15, 09:43 am

4-3-3 wrote:
Seven wrote:...now as for beating an ECNL team, thats a different story.

This is my issue..."an ecnl team" as if ALL of them are stacked with ballers.  There are some amazing ecnl teams, many more above average with a handful of top prospects and good filler, and a good number of BAD ecnl teams. The fact BAD ecnl teams exist is never acknowledged by the propagandists...which is why some can get away with claims like "ANY" ecnl team would do such and such. It's old and beyond disingenuous at this point.

The claim many top players are skipping high school needs some sort of justification....most major prospects I can think of the last 5 years played hs....chi, haley, harr, asom, etc etc. Seems to me if most were already skipping it ecnl would copy DA and outlaw hs.

There is no ecnl team in ntx with all the best players from every district...if there is tell me who, so I can take my daughter and go watch them play.

Yes hs is irrelevant in recruiting, and the majority of hs soccer is not quality. But there are some stout hs programs who can play and are well coached, and these blanket statements about the universal superiority of ecnl teams is more chest thumping than anything else. I would put money on the hs state finalists against at least a third of  ecnl teams. HS kids are playing for pride and for each other....they are not a collection of mercenaries showcasing themselves for college...some of the stuff that goes on in hs rivalry games is beyond anything you see in club. Ecnl has great consolidation of talented players, but that doesn't equate to each one of them being great TEAMS.  

This chest thumping elitism is one of the big problems with ntx soccer and us soccer in general. I'll just throw out there that ussf has the solution to pay to play right under their noses....high schools. Get the top coaches and resources into the schools instead of in clubs, and players will consolidate and parents won't be able to call the shots anymore.

There is no ecnl team in ntx with all the best players from every district...if there is tell me who, so I can take my daughter and go watch them play.

For what it's worth, there will be 10+ "01" girls joining the Southlake Soccer program this season.  7 from Solar Bates ECNL (2 Forwards, Mid Fielder, 4 Defenders, 1 Dallas Kicks starting Mid Fielder, 1 Texans ECNL Goalie, 3-4 Solar Division 1 LHGCL players.  I am not suggesting this team is stacked...however, there is some serious talent moving into an already strong HS Soccer program. IMO

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Post by Pele98 on 19/08/15, 10:05 am

My question would be, IF we can get HS to play vs ECNL team, where will the ECNL players from that HS line up?  With their ECNL team or in the HS team?


My dd plays ECNL and also is in the State Winning HS team.  And several times we have had discussions on how the absence of 'some' of the ECNL players greatly affects the overall performance of their HS team.


I think the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
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Post by dallas 1968 on 19/08/15, 12:42 pm

Pele98 wrote:My question would be, IF we can get HS to play vs ECNL team, where will the ECNL players from that HS line up?  With their ECNL team or in the HS team?



If the proposed game was during the high school season the girl would be expected to play for her school, for the simple reason that playing a school sport is a part of her grade. Failure to turn up for school practices or games could result in a 'fail' grade, which would not look good to any prospective college. Many ECNL teams hold 'mandatory' practices. Well, if your daughter signs up to play a school sport it is decidedly 'more mandatory' she show up when required. A fact many ECNL teams choose to ignore.

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Post by Lefty on 19/08/15, 01:23 pm

dallas 1968 wrote:
Pele98 wrote:My question would be, IF we can get HS to play vs ECNL team, where will the ECNL players from that HS line up?  With their ECNL team or in the HS team?



If the proposed game was during the high school season the girl would be expected to play for her school, for the simple reason that playing a school sport is a part of her grade. Failure to turn up for school practices or games could result in a 'fail' grade, which would not look good to any prospective college. Many ECNL teams hold 'mandatory' practices. Well, if your daughter signs up to play a school sport it is decidedly 'more mandatory' she show up when required. A fact many ECNL teams choose to ignore.

Not true in all cases.

What about the ones where it is not a class or part of their grade?

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Post by Guest on 19/08/15, 01:39 pm

Big Poppy wrote:
For what it's worth, there will be 10+ "01" girls joining the Southlake Soccer program this season.  7 from Solar Bates ECNL (2 Forwards, Mid Fielder, 4 Defenders, 1 Dallas Kicks starting Mid Fielder, 1 Texans ECNL Goalie, 3-4 Solar Division 1 LHGCL players.  I am not suggesting this team is stacked...however, there is some serious talent moving into an already strong HS Soccer program. IMO

I think we can safely say southlake freshman class is "stacked"...lol. MiddleClass has been giving us the warning shots on the sidelines for over a
year now. BW says Allen is about to load up as well. Going to be an exciting next few years that's for sure!

Those Southlake 01s are a great example of the point on school soccer. All those outstanding players...basically from the same area. Imagine if the best coaches they were ever exposed to also coached in the same area...and could offer services to them under one umbrella from ulittle on up through graduation. This would be the closest thing us soccer could get to international clubs that are organized around communities.

Besides the costs weeding out too many potential stars, the key ingredients missing in club are the loyalty and passion. People support their communities with a passion. USSF could be supporting, training and supplementing the school coaches instead of pushing kids at younger and younger ages into the arms of the soccer entrepreneurs.


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Post by Gunners on 19/08/15, 01:46 pm

dallas 1968 wrote:
Pele98 wrote:My question would be, IF we can get HS to play vs ECNL team, where will the ECNL players from that HS line up?  With their ECNL team or in the HS team?



If the proposed game was during the high school season the girl would be expected to play for her school, for the simple reason that playing a school sport is a part of her grade. Failure to turn up for school practices or games could result in a 'fail' grade, which would not look good to any prospective college. Many ECNL teams hold 'mandatory' practices. Well, if your daughter signs up to play a school sport it is decidedly 'more mandatory' she show up when required. A fact many ECNL teams choose to ignore.

If this type of coach or situation exists, then most (if not all) select players who have any aspiration of playing in college would choose not to play HS soccer.

If I recall correctly, years ago there was a HS coach (Plano West maybe?) who wouldn't allow select players to play HS if they chose select events over HS events. Needless to say, it didn't work out well for the coach.

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Post by Gunners on 19/08/15, 01:48 pm

4-3-3 wrote:
Big Poppy wrote:
For what it's worth, there will be 10+ "01" girls joining the Southlake Soccer program this season.  7 from Solar Bates ECNL (2 Forwards, Mid Fielder, 4 Defenders, 1 Dallas Kicks starting Mid Fielder, 1 Texans ECNL Goalie, 3-4 Solar Division 1 LHGCL players.  I am not suggesting this team is stacked...however, there is some serious talent moving into an already strong HS Soccer program. IMO

I think we can safely say southlake freshman class is "stacked"...lol. MiddleClass has been giving us the warning shots on the sidelines for over a
year now. BW says Allen is about to load up as well. Going to be an exciting next few years that's for sure!

Those Southlake 01s are a great example of the point on school soccer. All those outstanding players...basically from the same area. Imagine if the best coaches they were ever exposed to also coached in the same area...and could offer services to them under one umbrella from ulittle on up through graduation. This would be the closest thing us soccer could get to international clubs that are organized around communities.

Besides the costs weeding out too many potential stars, the key ingredients missing in club are the loyalty and passion. People support their communities with a passion. USSF could be supporting, training and supplementing the school coaches instead of pushing kids at younger and younger ages into the arms of the soccer entrepreneurs.


Chris Stricker at Coppell did this for years with his Panthers teams(until U11 at least). It seems to have worked out well for him...

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Post by Guest on 19/08/15, 02:24 pm

4-3-3 wrote:
Big Poppy wrote:
For what it's worth, there will be 10+ "01" girls joining the Southlake Soccer program this season.  7 from Solar Bates ECNL (2 Forwards, Mid Fielder, 4 Defenders, 1 Dallas Kicks starting Mid Fielder, 1 Texans ECNL Goalie, 3-4 Solar Division 1 LHGCL players.  I am not suggesting this team is stacked...however, there is some serious talent moving into an already strong HS Soccer program. IMO

I think we can safely say southlake freshman class is "stacked"...lol. MiddleClass has been giving us the warning shots on the sidelines for over a
year now. BW says Allen is about to load up as well. Going to be an exciting next few years that's for sure!

Those Southlake 01s are a great example of the point on school soccer. All those outstanding players...basically from the same area. Imagine if the best coaches they were ever exposed to also coached in the same area...and could offer services to them under one umbrella from ulittle on up through graduation. This would be the closest thing us soccer could get to international clubs that are organized around communities.

Besides the costs weeding out too many potential stars, the key ingredients missing in club are the loyalty and passion. People support their communities with a passion. USSF could be supporting, training and supplementing the school coaches instead of pushing kids at younger and younger ages into the arms of the soccer entrepreneurs.


Don't know if it's quite as stacked as what BigPoppy says Southlake has coming in, but there is a pretty strong group of '01 ECNL/D1 girls in the Freshman class at Allen. Unfortunately one less for this year, as we just found out our DD tore her ACL and will miss out on HS soccer for her Freshman year. Sad

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Post by Sweeper on 19/08/15, 02:49 pm

bwgophers wrote:
4-3-3 wrote:
Big Poppy wrote:
For what it's worth, there will be 10+ "01" girls joining the Southlake Soccer program this season.  7 from Solar Bates ECNL (2 Forwards, Mid Fielder, 4 Defenders, 1 Dallas Kicks starting Mid Fielder, 1 Texans ECNL Goalie, 3-4 Solar Division 1 LHGCL players.  I am not suggesting this team is stacked...however, there is some serious talent moving into an already strong HS Soccer program. IMO

I think we can safely say southlake freshman class is "stacked"...lol. MiddleClass has been giving us the warning shots on the sidelines for over a
year now. BW says Allen is about to load up as well. Going to be an exciting next few years that's for sure!

Those Southlake 01s are a great example of the point on school soccer. All those outstanding players...basically from the same area. Imagine if the best coaches they were ever exposed to also coached in the same area...and could offer services to them under one umbrella from ulittle on up through graduation. This would be the closest thing us soccer could get to international clubs that are organized around communities.

Besides the costs weeding out too many potential stars, the key ingredients missing in club are the loyalty and passion. People support their communities with a passion. USSF could be supporting, training and supplementing the school coaches instead of pushing kids at younger and younger ages into the arms of the soccer entrepreneurs.


Don't know if it's quite as stacked as what BigPoppy says Southlake has coming in, but there is a pretty strong group of '01 ECNL/D1 girls in the Freshman class at Allen.  Unfortunately one less for this year, as we just found out our DD tore her ACL and will miss out on HS soccer for her Freshman year. Sad

Really sorry to hear that BW. Hoping for a speedy recovery.

Ursuline has a strong group of 01 ECNL/D1 players in the Freshman class as well.
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Post by Guest on 19/08/15, 03:22 pm

Sweeper wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
4-3-3 wrote:
Big Poppy wrote:
For what it's worth, there will be 10+ "01" girls joining the Southlake Soccer program this season.  7 from Solar Bates ECNL (2 Forwards, Mid Fielder, 4 Defenders, 1 Dallas Kicks starting Mid Fielder, 1 Texans ECNL Goalie, 3-4 Solar Division 1 LHGCL players.  I am not suggesting this team is stacked...however, there is some serious talent moving into an already strong HS Soccer program. IMO

I think we can safely say southlake freshman class is "stacked"...lol. MiddleClass has been giving us the warning shots on the sidelines for over a
year now. BW says Allen is about to load up as well. Going to be an exciting next few years that's for sure!

Those Southlake 01s are a great example of the point on school soccer. All those outstanding players...basically from the same area. Imagine if the best coaches they were ever exposed to also coached in the same area...and could offer services to them under one umbrella from ulittle on up through graduation. This would be the closest thing us soccer could get to international clubs that are organized around communities.

Besides the costs weeding out too many potential stars, the key ingredients missing in club are the loyalty and passion. People support their communities with a passion. USSF could be supporting, training and supplementing the school coaches instead of pushing kids at younger and younger ages into the arms of the soccer entrepreneurs.


Don't know if it's quite as stacked as what BigPoppy says Southlake has coming in, but there is a pretty strong group of '01 ECNL/D1 girls in the Freshman class at Allen.  Unfortunately one less for this year, as we just found out our DD tore her ACL and will miss out on HS soccer for her Freshman year. Sad

Really sorry to hear that BW.  Hoping for a speedy recovery.  

Ursuline has a strong group of 01 ECNL/D1 players in the Freshman class as well.  

lol! Now THERE's a surprise... affraid

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Post by Sweeper on 19/08/15, 03:27 pm

bwgophers wrote:
Sweeper wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
Don't know if it's quite as stacked as what BigPoppy says Southlake has coming in, but there is a pretty strong group of '01 ECNL/D1 girls in the Freshman class at Allen.  Unfortunately one less for this year, as we just found out our DD tore her ACL and will miss out on HS soccer for her Freshman year. Sad

Really sorry to hear that BW.  Hoping for a speedy recovery.  

Ursuline has a strong group of 01 ECNL/D1 players in the Freshman class as well.  

lol! Now THERE's a surprise... affraid

Sun is expected to rise in the East tomorrow as well.
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Post by 1more_dd_dad on 19/08/15, 06:47 pm

Sorry to hear that BW. Marcus had an awesome freshman group of 00's and a decent group of 01' ECNL/LH D1 girls. I'm looking forward to High School soccer and interested to see where my daughters loyalties are, club or High School although being a six to seven year Feeter I probably know the answer....

bwgophers wrote:
4-3-3 wrote:
Big Poppy wrote:
For what it's worth, there will be 10+ "01" girls joining the Southlake Soccer program this season.  7 from Solar Bates ECNL (2 Forwards, Mid Fielder, 4 Defenders, 1 Dallas Kicks starting Mid Fielder, 1 Texans ECNL Goalie, 3-4 Solar Division 1 LHGCL players.  I am not suggesting this team is stacked...however, there is some serious talent moving into an already strong HS Soccer program. IMO

I think we can safely say southlake freshman class is "stacked"...lol. MiddleClass has been giving us the warning shots on the sidelines for over a
year now. BW says Allen is about to load up as well. Going to be an exciting next few years that's for sure!

Those Southlake 01s are a great example of the point on school soccer. All those outstanding players...basically from the same area. Imagine if the best coaches they were ever exposed to also coached in the same area...and could offer services to them under one umbrella from ulittle on up through graduation. This would be the closest thing us soccer could get to international clubs that are organized around communities.

Besides the costs weeding out too many potential stars, the key ingredients missing in club are the loyalty and passion. People support their communities with a passion. USSF could be supporting, training and supplementing the school coaches instead of pushing kids at younger and younger ages into the arms of the soccer entrepreneurs.


Don't know if it's quite as stacked as what BigPoppy says Southlake has coming in, but there is a pretty strong group of '01 ECNL/D1 girls in the Freshman class at Allen.  Unfortunately one less for this year, as we just found out our DD tore her ACL and will miss out on HS soccer for her Freshman year. Sad
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Post by dallas 1968 on 19/08/15, 06:49 pm

[quote="bwgophers"][quote="4-3-3"]
Big Poppy wrote:

 Unfortunately one less for this year, as we just found out our DD tore her ACL and will miss out on HS soccer for her Freshman year. Sad

So sorry to hear about your daughters unfortunate injury. Have her check the website: friendsinkneed.com started by a Texan's player who tore her ACL playing D1 prior to her freshman year, came back and tore the ACL in her other knee at Disney. Missed nearly all her sophomore year of school soccer, came back again and played for her school her junior and senior years.

Check it out, it will be worth it for both of you. Good luck.

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Post by dallas 1968 on 19/08/15, 06:56 pm

[quote="bwgophers"][quote="Sweeper"][quote="bwgophers"]
4-3-3 wrote:
Big Poppy wrote:
 

Ursuline has a strong group of 01 ECNL/D1 players in the Freshman class as well.  

lol! Now THERE's a surprise... affraid

Should be a really good game when Ursuline hosts ESD on December 3rd. ESD returns 9 of 11 starters who have won the past two SPC Championships. These 9 girls now return as juniors and seniors.

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Post by Sweeper on 20/08/15, 08:09 am

dallas 1968 wrote:Should be a really good game when Ursuline hosts ESD on December 3rd. ESD returns 9 of 11 starters who have won the past two SPC Championships. These 9 girls now return as juniors and seniors.

My DD was at ESD from 5th - 7th grade. Coach Renshaw was very supportive and encouraging. Great guy. Would have loved for her play for him.

Ursuline had (I believe) 10 seniors on the varsity roster last year. I'm not sure how many were starters, but it is a lot of turnover on the team regardless. It will be interesting to see how many of those spots are filled by Freshman 01s.
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Post by soccersounder on 20/08/15, 03:13 pm

dallas 1968 wrote:Great post, although much too logical and well thought out for some on this thread. As far as my claim that Sting did indeed have their nutcase, 12 hours a day, for 5 straight days, 'soccer camp' at Hockaday prior to them getting hammered in Seattle well, it did indeed happen and for CERTAIN their '99 team was involved.

I'm sure "you" know that the Sting team you mentioned also only gained 1 point in the last 5 games leading up to the Camp you mention... So you cannot blame the camp on the win loss record in Seatlle as they were already in one heck of a slump... Though, if the camp was anything like you mention, I agree with you on the Way Too Much opinion...
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Post by soccersounder on 20/08/15, 03:31 pm

dallas 1968 wrote:
4-3-3 wrote:I haven't watched as many ecnl games as some in this thread..but I've watched a few...and quite a bit of high school. I was at the coppell vs pw playoff game last spring...couldn't tell any difference in level of play from ecnl games ive watched, reffed or seen online. Maybe DDad can say ANY u16 or above ecnl team would always beat Lynch since he's close to the program, but it's borderline propaganda to suggest ANY u16 ecnl team would beat ANY high school team. And using topdrawer national HS rankings to support the argument usually means you are reaching.

I totally agree with this. SOME high school teams are very well coached and SOME ECNL teams are poorly coached (Sting '99 and Solar Chelsea '99 come readily to mind). I think several high school teams would be more than competitive with some ECNL teams.

Generally (certainly at the private school level) the high school facilities are far better than ANYTHING any ECNL team offers. They have stadium dressing rooms, on site medical trainers, fully equipped weight rooms staffed by qualified personnel, excellent grass fields (ESD's two grass fields are second to none and Greenhill's new fields are right there in terms of quality of playing surface) lighted field turf fields, team rooms for video work and tactical preparation which often feature dry erase boards, drop down screens, internet hook-up and the rest.

The high school girls do NOT have to bring their own water and soccer balls to practice and, in case of poor weather can play futsal in one of the schools gyms. NONE of the ECNL teams come close to matching this and if they did then why do they spend so much money RENTING the high school facilities when their own fields are soaking wet, like they were this last spring ? Heck, at least one ECNL league game was re-scheduled on the field turf of a local private high school, just to get it in.

From what you're saying here, there is really no reason to play Club at all, if you have Private School Money or maybe live in the right Public School Zip Code.... I get it, the coaches at the top Privates and Publics don't give a poop if their incoming Freshmen play Club or not... They are ready to develop and mold... You have made me see the light :-)

You have been hard on Tatu in here.. You do realize he is a local Private HS coach as well... Just the reason Sting has access to POP and ESD when needed to get ECNL games in...
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Post by dallas 1968 on 21/08/15, 08:47 pm

[quote="Gunners"][quote="dallas 1968"]
Pele98 wrote:

If this type of coach or situation exists, then most (if not all) select players who have any aspiration of playing in college would choose not to play HS soccer.


Not sure I agree with this. I think for the girls in public schools this may be the case. If you are paying a small fortune to educate your daughter at Hockaday, Ursuline, Lynch and the rest, chances are you aspire to a bit more than West Texas A&M or whoever (no offence to these fine institutions). For example, Mimi Asom (according to Top Drawer Soccer) turned down a soccer scholarship to Stanford and instead accepted an academic scholarship to something called Princeton, apparently an Ivy League school. Take care of your academics and the soccer will take care of itself, even if you have to 'walk-on'.

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Post by dallas 1968 on 21/08/15, 08:54 pm

soccersounder wrote:

From what you're saying here, there is really no reason to play Club at all, if you have Private School Money or maybe live in the right Public School Zip Code.... I get it, the coaches at the top Privates and Publics don't give a poop if their incoming Freshmen play Club or not... They are ready to develop and mold... You have made me see the light :-)

You have been hard on Tatu in here.. You do realize he is a local Private HS coach as well... Just the reason Sting has access to POP and ESD when needed to get ECNL games in...

I think it important for the girls in private schools to play club soccer thru their sophomore years, after which they should concentrate on their academics so they can get academic scholarships which will, in most cases, FAR out weigh anything they would get for soccer.

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Post by Guest on 21/08/15, 08:59 pm

Holy Crap!  I think Dallas 1968 has managed to out-snob the ECNL snobs on here!  That some mad skillz there! Shocked

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Post by dallas 1968 on 21/08/15, 09:27 pm

CUZete90 wrote:Holy Crap!  I think Dallas 1968 has managed to out-snob the ECNL snobs on here!  That some mad skillz there! Shocked

With this kind of sarcasm you are definitely a candidate to coach any ECNL club. Just continue to work on refining your negativity and belittlement. Forget about actually having a valid point to make.

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Post by jae on 21/08/15, 09:29 pm

dallas 1968 wrote:

Not sure I agree with this. I think for the girls in public schools this may be the case. If you are paying a small fortune to educate your daughter at Hockaday, Ursuline, Lynch and the rest, chances are you aspire to a bit more than West Texas A&M or whoever (no offence to these fine institutions). For example, Mimi Asom (according to Top Drawer Soccer) turned down a soccer scholarship to Stanford and instead accepted an academic scholarship to something called Princeton, apparently an Ivy League school. Take care of your academics and the soccer will take care of itself, even if you have to 'walk-on'.

While it does not change your argument, Princeton does not offer academic or athletic scholarships to anyone. Any admitted student with household income below about $60K (with typical assets) get a full ride. Any admitted student with household income below about $100K (with typical assets) get full tuition ride. Everything is based on need.

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Post by Guest on 21/08/15, 10:21 pm

dallas 1968 wrote:
CUZete90 wrote:Holy Crap!  I think Dallas 1968 has managed to out-snob the ECNL snobs on here!  That some mad skillz there! Shocked

With this kind of sarcasm you are definitely a candidate to coach any ECNL club. Just continue to work on refining your negativity and belittlement. Forget about actually having a valid point to make.

Who said I was being sarcastic? It all depends on your lens. I happen to think I made a highly valid point. You've clearly worked hard at your arrogance.

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Post by dallas 1968 on 21/08/15, 10:34 pm

CUZete90 wrote:
dallas 1968 wrote:
CUZete90 wrote:Holy Crap!  I think Dallas 1968 has managed to out-snob the ECNL snobs on here!  That some mad skillz there! Shocked

With this kind of sarcasm you are definitely a candidate to coach any ECNL club. Just continue to work on refining your negativity and belittlement. Forget about actually having a valid point to make.

Who said I was being sarcastic?  It all depends on your lens.  I happen to think I made a highly valid point.

I said you were being sarcastic and you were. You made no valid point at all.

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Post by Gunners on 21/08/15, 10:35 pm

CUZete90 wrote:
dallas 1968 wrote:
CUZete90 wrote:Holy Crap!  I think Dallas 1968 has managed to out-snob the ECNL snobs on here!  That some mad skillz there! Shocked

With this kind of sarcasm you are definitely a candidate to coach any ECNL club. Just continue to work on refining your negativity and belittlement. Forget about actually having a valid point to make.

Who said I was being sarcastic?  It all depends on your lens.  I happen to think I made a highly valid point.  You've clearly worked hard at your arrogance.

...and ignorance.

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Post by Guest on 21/08/15, 11:14 pm

Gunners wrote:
CUZete90 wrote:
dallas 1968 wrote:
CUZete90 wrote:Holy Crap!  I think Dallas 1968 has managed to out-snob the ECNL snobs on here!  That some mad skillz there! Shocked

With this kind of sarcasm you are definitely a candidate to coach any ECNL club. Just continue to work on refining your negativity and belittlement. Forget about actually having a valid point to make.

Who said I was being sarcastic?  It all depends on your lens.  I happen to think I made a highly valid point.  You've clearly worked hard at your arrogance.

...and ignorance.

Sorry, only valid points accepted here. Oh, wait... nevermind.

(now that was sarcastic tongue )


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