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Jan '06- July'06- go select or stay academy? - Page 6 Pixel
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Jan '06- July'06- go select or stay academy?

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Post by AtThePitch on 10/09/15, 01:31 pm

Every big club is the word on the street.

For every 06 that can't play up there is an 05 that will gladly take the spot. No money is lost.

Nature of the beast

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Post by AtThePitch on 10/09/15, 01:33 pm

For the record I wanted the choice. We all want choices, human nature.
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Post by SD69 on 10/09/15, 01:36 pm

The '05 group next summer may be a very small group without letting the '06s play up. I think a lot of Fall '05s will continue to play with the '04s and by not allowing the Fall '06s to play up to replace the younger '05s, AP 05 teams will be lower than normal.
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Post by Guest on 10/09/15, 01:37 pm

I am beyond debating logic and fairness and am ready to talk implementation and predictions. I predict that U11 next year will have the smallest number of players and teams of any entering select Class. I guess we are disagreeing on the percentage of current '05s that will want to play U11 again. My statement is for the first year of select only.

Soccer Point Guard wrote:I don't think '06s will be weak. As parents look to make moves, the good players will rise to the top. '06 platinum will be strong, the gap between platinum and gold will be even wider though.

'05 D1 will be ridiculously weak, especially if it's 20 teams.

Respectful disagreement...

Practical Application… Tomorrows ‘05 division / (class) is essentially Todays ‘05 & ‘06 players (for the most part).  The 05’s who have been competing in today’s ‘06 class will essentially be playing against the ‘05 kids they have currently been competing against.  I state this because all of the TOP ‘06 teams and many mid-level teams spent a good portion of their previous development time playing in the ‘05 girls and boys classes.  If you follow the logic of iron sharpens iron and you believe the current ‘06 class is very strong here in NTX, as is the current ’05 class, then what you will have is a shift in the eccentric classes of the decade (from ’06 & ’05 to  ’04 & ’05).  The shame is the direction the proposed rulings seem to be headed based on the meetings this week.  If NO Flexibility or CHOICE is given to the PURE AGE ’06 then that decision comes off as punitive in nature.  The TOP AGE PURE ’06 players will go from training, playing, and developing game competition awareness against essentially ’04 & ’05 players today to ’07 players tomorrow. That is where the train runs off the track for me…  The intent or spirit of the moves US Youth Soccer is trying to identify with is creating more dynamic well rounded players.  If you follow the logic that the reasoning behind the seemingly mature development of the NTX  ’05 &’06 classes compared to players and play around the country (i.e. Super Copa and Surf Cup as examples), are direct results of increased small sided play and playing up, then why would you eliminate that opportunity for the ’06 player to have the choice of continuing to do so?  Furthermore stifling that opportunity goes against the spirit of what the intended purpose is supposed to be about plus it negatively impacts any’06 worthy of and willing to play up. It’s a penalty and punitive to that player and it creates a “wasted” year for those Top AGE PURE ’06 player who desire to play up. If the focus is development and developing a more balanced well round player and the NTX ’06 class has already embarked down that road by already focusing heavily on small sided play and playing up, why interrupt what has gotten us to the lead? Train is off the track! Must not just be about Development, there must be another agenda at play or the wrong folks are calling the shots! My opinions only!  Food for thought! No ’06 DD in the race!

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Post by AtThePitch on 10/09/15, 01:39 pm

Nah, there are a lot of kids not currently in LHGCL that would take those shots
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Post by Berlin on 10/09/15, 01:41 pm

It appears that the current NTX bylaws states: Players who have not attained the proper age to be eligible for Under 12 play shall not be allowed to play up on competitive (select or tryout) teams or in tournaments designated as competitive (this includes recreational all-star teams).
Thus, with age pure the fall 05 players who are in select today would be again U11 and not be able to play up and would have to qualify again, if they do not change the rule. Correct me if I am wrong.

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Post by AtThePitch on 10/09/15, 01:43 pm

That bylaw is intended to mean u11 and 12... call it a typo.

There is an 05 that signed with srsa 03 this summer. As an example.
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Post by Elpistolero on 10/09/15, 02:22 pm

She is an early 04 born kid
AtThePitch wrote:That bylaw is intended to mean u11 and 12... call it a typo.

There is an 05 that signed with srsa 03 this summer.  As an example.

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Post by PLAY2FEET!! on 10/09/15, 02:26 pm

jogobonito07 wrote:
AtThePitch wrote:The issue isn't the initiative. The rule about playing up is simply a NTX rule, some other areas may have it, but I know not all.  

The ones that carried the most weight were the big dogs.

Still don't see what the motivation to keep this arbitrary rule is.  Usually in NTX you just follow the $$.  In this case the big dogs are turning away $3k per 06 kid who wanted to play up with their existing team.

Did anyone speak in favor of the existing rule at the meeting?
jogobonito, you can still follow the $$ in this case.
With the new US Soccer mandate changing everything to age pure, that was the 1st blow to small clubs in NTX as their teams along with most of the big clubs teams have both 06 and 05 players on the rosters. For the big clubs, it's simply a matter of rearranging the teams and players in their large pool of existing players. The one saving grace for some small clubs, was the hope that 06's would be allowed to play up and remain with their current teams. Which ordinarily they would have been able to do with no issue before the mandate. The 2nd blow to these small clubs was dealt at the meeting that has been discussed, where this hope was taken away. With the rule remaining in place, small club x,y,z in most cases won't be able to field a u11 team. Where do you think those players and their $$ will end up? ( see Lonestar in STX)
What better way to increase revenue, than by eliminating the competition. And with those small clubs no longer there to provide alternatives to the big clubs, what's going to keep those 3k fees from rising to 3.5k, 4k? It's chess, not checkers.

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Post by Guest on 10/09/15, 02:26 pm

Elpistolero wrote:She is an early 04 born kid
AtThePitch wrote:That bylaw is intended to mean u11 and 12... call it a typo.

There is an 05 that signed with srsa 03 this summer.  As an example.

I was actually wondering about that. Very Happy

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Post by jm23jm on 10/09/15, 02:57 pm

Under today's current rules kids usually go select in 5th grade.  I believe a kids grade level is fair enough as to when they are matured enough to sign a contract.    With calendar year kids born Jan - Aug in 5th grade are forced to wait a year and play with 4th graders and not go select until they are in 6th grade.  Last year we had a player on our team that attended 2 US Youth National Camps as a 7th grader.  If she was born Jan - Aug that would  have given her only  1 full yr of select to develop.   I think the rule should be if you were born Jan - Aug and are in the 5th grade, then you have option to play up so you can play with your grade.  Those are the kids you will be competing with for college scholarships, of course that is if your DD continues to play and excel.   With massive changes happening due to USSF mandate (which I agree we needed). I think NTX needs to look at changing rules too and see what is best for the players development.

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Post by yellowcard5 on 10/09/15, 03:13 pm

No, the bylaw is written exactly the way it was intended to be written. By using the term U12 what they are essentially saying is that no one will be allowed to play up until they have completed (or their proper age group has completed) one year of select soccer at U11.

It is written very deliberately and restricts exactly what it is trying to restrict. As for an 05 (if she really is an 05) signing for SRSA 03, that is just fine, but she won't be playing in any LHGCL league games, which is run under NTX Soccer guidelines.

Now the question remains, as stated above, since the AP 05 kids will be U11 again in the fall of 2016 will they be allowed to play up on the 04 AP teams. If the rule stays as it is now, I interpret it as even the 05 kids can't play up.

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Post by Soccer Point Guard on 10/09/15, 03:29 pm

We have ultimately re-written the rule right here. If we all believe Development to be the underlying focus and peripheral to that is continuing to trend in the direction we are which is aligned with the spirit of what the US Youth Reps are trying to accomplish then just "grand father" clause the 06 and '05 groups. They are the most impacted with coaches and some teams / clubs having little to no reasonable opportunity to competitively adjust and the players themselves being put in punitive situations, which no reasonable adult wants to happen then invoke a grand father clause for that group of kids and the system can go back to business as usual thereafter. This ain't Chinese Arithmetic....

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Post by yellowcard5 on 10/09/15, 03:37 pm

I am hearing and seeing a lot of ideas on this forum, but it's going to take a whole lot more than that to change anything.

If some are clearly as upset as they lead us to believe, then I see no reason whey a group of 100, 200, 300 parents couldn't demand a meeting with NTX and communicate their concerns. Until this happens then don't expect anything to change.

Someone get it going. Online petition, meeting with NTX board, etc...who is going to take the lead?

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Post by jogobonito06 on 10/09/15, 03:39 pm

yellowcard5 wrote:No, the bylaw is written exactly the way it was intended to be written.  By using the term U12 what they are essentially saying is that no one will be allowed to play up until they have completed (or their proper age group has completed) one year of select soccer at U11.  

It is written very deliberately and restricts exactly what it is trying to restrict.  As for an 05 (if she really is an 05) signing for SRSA 03, that is just fine, but she won't be playing in any LHGCL league games, which is run under NTX Soccer guidelines.  


This is incorrect. A player may play up as SOON as that player reaches the allowable competitive age (U11). Not after a year. I know some players quite well that joined a U12 team as soon as they became U11.

The bylaws are written that way because the official age groups are every 2 years. U12 is simply an umbrella to cover U11 and U12.
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Post by Guest on 10/09/15, 03:48 pm

yellowcard5 wrote:I am hearing and seeing a lot of ideas on this forum, but it's going to take a whole lot more than that to change anything.  

If some are clearly as upset as they lead us to believe, then I see no reason whey a group of 100, 200, 300 parents couldn't demand a meeting with NTX and communicate their concerns.  Until this happens then don't expect anything to change.  

Someone get it going.  Online petition, meeting with NTX board, etc...who is going to take the lead?

I think of Independents as sole-proprietors, which are usually sole-proprietors for a reason. That's not intended as an insult. Anyways, I'm not shocked that there was no organization/cooperation among the small clubs and independent teams to get their voice heard.

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Post by yellowcard5 on 10/09/15, 04:01 pm

jogobonito07 wrote:
yellowcard5 wrote:No, the bylaw is written exactly the way it was intended to be written.  By using the term U12 what they are essentially saying is that no one will be allowed to play up until they have completed (or their proper age group has completed) one year of select soccer at U11.  

It is written very deliberately and restricts exactly what it is trying to restrict.  As for an 05 (if she really is an 05) signing for SRSA 03, that is just fine, but she won't be playing in any LHGCL league games, which is run under NTX Soccer guidelines.  


This is incorrect.  A player may play up as SOON as that player reaches the allowable competitive age (U11).  Not after a year.  I know some players quite well that joined a U12 team as soon as they became U11.

The bylaws are written that way because the official age groups are every 2 years.  U12 is simply an umbrella to cover U11 and U12.

Sorry to do this to you, but I need examples to understand what you are trying to say. I have spoken to both NTX and LHGCL about this issue and I wrote down exactly what they communicated to me. I am not saying it is correct, I am just saying I don't understand what you are trying to communicate. Either that or the important piece of information as to when a player technically becomes U11 is missing. I am under the impression that a player and team become 11 on August 1. Are you telling me that there have been U12 teams that have held spots open and waited to sign an U11 player on August 1, after rosters have been completed and turned in to the leagues? I have no doubt there have been players that have joined older teams for tournaments that aren't NTX sanctioned but are you sure this has happened in LHGCL?

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Post by SkeetsG06 on 10/09/15, 08:59 pm

The forum has been on fire this week.

Sadly, as in life, this topic will be over.  

The 06' AP players that are truly good enough to play up will find an interim solution next season, and, if they are still interested, will play up the following season.  They will not face irreparable damages.  

These girls are 9 years old.  They will be fine.

Not having a choice sucks, but the rule not allowing players to play up before they turn select has been in place a Loooong time...and those VERY, VERY few kids truly capable of playing up do so a year later and they are fine.

For the record, I think my kid, 06 AP, could possibly play up and hang.  But I have seen the movie with my 00' dd.  I can't even remember one game from when she was 9 or 10 and I don't forget many sports related details. Net, I know my 06 AP will be fine. She is going to be whatever the good Lord has planned for her. In the interim, I am going love her the same.

So to my fellow forum community, everything going to be ok!

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