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ECNL Age Pure - Page 2 Empty Re: ECNL Age Pure

Post by SkeetsG06 31/08/15, 01:36 pm

In 7 years of NTX forum posting whether Turfmonster or the current forum, this is the most confusion group of posts I have ever read.

OOL and I are really, really good friends...and we normally agree on most soccer related topics. I don't think I know Soccer Sounder.

My 0 cents is I think both of you make good points. Here is my perspective:

My overall, POV is AP will be option of choice as time passes. During the transition to AP, decisions will vary based on child's ability and their age in the youth soccer cycle.
1) Academy decision will be easy to choose AP fairly quickly.
-In Academy, playing AP will be the preferred route quickly b/c clubs will want the biggest, fastest, and most developed kids which will most likely be the older kids. This is not a new fact. Read the book, "Outlier".
-Younger kids that are truly exceptional, which is rare, will be obvious and will almost be forced to play up at some pt.

2) Kids in Transition from Academy to Select:
-The 5 ECNL Clubs will want the teams to convert to AP.
-Smaller Clubs will choose according to the make up of the age of the players on their team.
-All clubs will initially go along with whatever the parents want to avoid losing them. As such, most kids will attempt to play up, but will quickly realize, the 12 to 18 month age advantage is too much for their dd. The dd will end up age pure.
-Parents, Jan-July, will find the advantage of the AP system will help them in ODP, US training CTR, id2, etc. The kids will have had the optimum chance to reach their potential. These kids will not miss out on recruiting b/c they will get college exposure thru ODP, US training CTR, id2, etc. When the college coaches start recruiting their grades they will also have to look at the AP over time b/c graduating classes will overlap age groups.
-Parents, in Aug-July, will find happiness based on their childs ability. If the child is good, they will be fine. If the child is average, they will hate the transition.

3) Transition from select to ECNL
-IMO the decision varies on age group.
-U16 and above, will stay with graduating class b/c the dd have already committed or they are in the midst of recruiting now and will most likely commit by the end of U16 season.
-U15 ECNL players now should stay with that group and move to U16. It is easy stay, b/c U16 will be peak recruiting for your graduating class AND I think college coaches will still be confused on which group to scout.
-U14 ECNL players will depend on your ability. If you are a starter but not national team caliber stay graduating. If you THINK there is potential to make id2, US training Ctr, etc. play AP.
-U13 Switch to AP to optimize potential for national team/pool exposure. Stay with current team if you don't want national team and are good enough to start playing up.

Whew, I am dropping the mic! Peace

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Post by outonthelimb 31/08/15, 02:23 pm

Skeets

I agree with all of your points without exception but with a slight twist on two sub bullets which essentially means I disagree with them but I'm going "out on a limb" and saying that you'll agree with me to a degree after my explanation.

If I attempt to summarize then you are saying that once you are of recruiting age (u14 and above) you should be playing with your graduating class (unless you are in the national team pool or doing US market training or on the US Region 3 TEAM - not just going to Alabama). Correct?

If so then I would venture to guess that if you are in the national team pool then there is a very high probability that you are going to be told/asked to play up against better competition when not at camp which would then mean playing in your graduating class at the very least if not even further up. The net of this is you wouldn't be playing down a graduation class at all and the only time you would see an AP group would be "at" the national team camp.

If you are u14 and still holding out hope for US market training invite and thus playing AP in hopes of securing one then I would say there are better ways of doing that without "potentially" putting your college scholarship opportunities at risk. US market training invites start with a very, very strong recommendation from your club's DOC at u11-u15. The US market coaches don't just show up to random events and US market training ENDS at u15 so you would only be in that program for 12mths. You are probably better off by asking your coach/DOC if they've recommended that you be looked at for market training or if the scouts have seen you and said no already. If so then you'd probably want to get to playing w/ your graduation class because the market training window has closed or is closing and now you are not playing w/ the girls the college scouts "might" like to see you compete against.

Pre-ECNL you should do whatever you think gives your child the best chance to succeed. With success being whatever you've defined it as.

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Post by SkeetsG06 31/08/15, 03:00 pm

OOL,

We are very closely aligned. :-)

My point if you are U14 and you are HOPING to get an id2 or national camp invite, then stay U14.  This is our difference.

If you are U14+ and are on the national radar or don't care about then play with graduating class.

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Post by DDdad 31/08/15, 06:31 pm


I still can't get over this new Skeets poster. Old age or your wife has certainly mellowed you. Maybe it is your wife posting under your name now days. I need to check that out. I haven't seen one grenade thrown in almost 2 years. I guess times really do change. Smile
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Post by Multivitamin 01/09/15, 11:09 pm

Analysis made on retention rate of the 2000 age group ECNL currently U16G - apologies was bored but this is facts.

FC Dallas will retain 11 on roster born in year 2000

Lonestar will retain 10 players born in 2000.

Rush will retain 9 players born in year 2000.

Texans will retain 8 players born in year 2000

Challenge will retain 8 players born in year 2000

Solar will retain 7 players born in year 2000

Sting will retain 7 players born in year 2000

TSC will retain 7 players born in year 2000

Albion will retain 5 players born in year 2000

Dfeeters will retain 2 players born in year 2000. ( ouch? Remade team )


Remade teams at the lowest level of born players could be scary site to see. Makes you wonder and atleast forecast future results and team make up.
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Post by outonthelimb 02/09/15, 10:23 am

Multivitamin, that is an interesting breakdown. I would be surprised if the '00 currently u16 ECNL age group looked any different from this year come this time next year though. The group above them will all be seniors so even if they are 1999 born they wouldn't drop back to play with this class of then juniors unless they are not committed to a college. This then class of juniors is likely to be 50-75% committed college wise and there would be no need nor desire to leave the friends they've played with in order to play with Sophomores.

Speaking specifically of the 8 Texans, 5 of those 2000 born players (possibly as many as 6) will be in the starting lineup this weekend. 4 of them are multi-year ECNL starters and likely to be committed before the season ends if not before the end of the year. It is highly unlikely that they would drop back to play with Sophomores and it is even more unlikely that the Texans staff would even mention the notion to their parents.

Nevertheless that is a whole heck off a lot of 2000 born players.
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Post by SkeetsG06 02/09/15, 10:33 am

DDdad wrote:
I still can't get over this new Skeets poster.  Old age or your wife has certainly mellowed you.  Maybe it is your wife posting under your name now days.  I need to check that out.  I haven't seen one grenade thrown in almost 2 years.   I guess times really do change.  Smile

C all of the above! :-)

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Post by DDdad 03/09/15, 04:22 pm

outonthelimb wrote:Multivitamin, that is an interesting breakdown.  I would be surprised if the '00 currently u16 ECNL age group looked any different from this year come this time next year though.  The group above them will all be seniors so even if they are 1999 born they wouldn't drop back to play with this class of then juniors unless they are not committed to a college.  This then class of juniors is likely to be 50-75% committed college wise and there would be no need nor desire to leave the friends they've played with in order to play with Sophomores.  

Speaking specifically of the 8 Texans, 5 of those 2000 born players (possibly as many as 6) will be in the starting lineup this weekend.  4 of them are multi-year ECNL starters and likely to be committed before the season ends if not before the end of the year.  It is highly unlikely that they would drop back to play with Sophomores and it is even more unlikely that the Texans staff would even mention the notion to their parents.  

Nevertheless that is a whole heck off a lot of 2000 born players.

I agree here. Most of the 2000's who drop down will be be only if they are pushed down (lost playing time) by an influx of Jan-July 1999's dropping down. Maybe a few who are uncommitted and who are eligible want another year at U17 for more looks. There could also be some Coaches Decision where a glut of forwards at one age group might positively impact another team. It wouldn't shock me if some Clubs opted to fix some perceived holes in the 2000 and rearrange some players.
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Post by Vikarius_lee 04/09/15, 12:12 pm

In my humble opinion, ECNL is an organization that has a primary mission of showcasing elite level high school athletes to prospective collegiate coaches.
Somehow it makes sense to me that the pool of players should be in the same graduating class.
To spark the interest of a college coach, and then have to inform him or her that because of age pure, only one fourth of the team is eligible for recruitment. Taking the coaches valuable time and university resources seems to be a waste. US soccer already has age pure. It's call ODP. Maybe Us soccer should focus more on that group.
How many US soccer representatives show up at ECNL events ? Not many or not any would be my guess.
I believe the focus should be on graduating classes .
Let the no show reps of US soccer deal with the inconvenience of sifting through rosters. Not the colleges that ECNL was designed to accommodate.
The older teams should be grandfathered away from age pure . If age pure is going to be the future focus, then the younger teams should transition now.
Transitioning now for the older teams would create chaos, affect chemistry, and impede the progression of the years spent developing cohesion and excellence of play.
Hopefully, those in charge will come to their senses.
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Post by 1more_dd_dad 04/09/15, 05:24 pm

If last years Phoenix event was any indicator, just as many US National folks are wondering as any regional event for sure. They were all over every day.

Vikarius_lee wrote:In my humble opinion, ECNL is an organization that has a primary mission of showcasing elite level high school athletes to prospective collegiate coaches.
Somehow it makes sense to me that the pool of players should be in the same graduating class.
  To spark the interest of a college coach, and then have to inform him or her that because of age pure, only one fourth of the team is eligible for recruitment. Taking the coaches valuable time and university resources seems to be a waste. US soccer already has age pure. It's call ODP.  Maybe Us soccer should focus more on that group.
How many US soccer representatives show up at ECNL events ? Not many or not any would be my guess.
I believe the focus should be on graduating classes .
Let the no show reps of US soccer deal with the inconvenience of sifting through rosters. Not the colleges that ECNL was designed to accommodate.
 The older teams should be grandfathered away from age pure . If age pure is going to be the future focus, then the younger teams should transition now.
Transitioning now for the older teams would create chaos, affect chemistry, and impede the progression of the years spent developing cohesion and excellence of play.
Hopefully, those in charge will come to their senses.
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Post by Vikarius_lee 04/09/15, 08:39 pm

That's good to hear. But still, my personal contention is, ECNL wasn't designed for the US soccer folk. Let's keep it convenient for what the ECNL consumer base( parents) pay for.
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Post by Lefty 05/09/15, 08:11 am

Vikarius_lee wrote:  That's good to hear. But still, my personal contention is, ECNL wasn't designed for the US soccer folk. Let's keep it convenient for what the ECNL consumer base( parents) pay for.

You are a true fool if you think ECNL considers parents & players their customers.

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Post by Vikarius_lee 05/09/15, 08:46 pm

I May be a fool. But I'm not so pessimistic that I cannot listen to reason. How about we let things play out before we label people as fools. ECNL may be forced to follow suit. I don't really give a care. My kid is a true 2000. So we might lose some 99s. Who cares. Her birthdate dictates that she's a 2000. Just means some fresh, new faces in 2016. Doesn't matter. She just plays the game regardless.
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Post by Vikarius_lee 05/09/15, 08:48 pm

By the way. I looked at the sidelines today. I didn't see any U. S. Soccer reps or D 1 college coaches.
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Post by ONLYASOCCERDAD 06/09/15, 03:39 am

Vikarius_lee wrote:By the way. I looked at the sidelines today. I didn't see any U. S. Soccer reps or D 1 college coaches.

why would scouts waste their time coming to a tournament crowded with many poor quality teams? they can tell a lot more about a player in leagues such as ECNL. not as many 8-0 scores to make players appear better than they may be.

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Post by Zizou 06/09/15, 07:04 am

Vikarius_lee wrote:By the way. I looked at the sidelines today. I didn't see any U. S. Soccer reps or D 1 college coaches.

That sucks, we had two D-1 colleges at our game yesterday. Baylor and Rice watching the girls play.

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Post by tschlurker 20/10/15, 02:23 pm

TSCH apparently plans to jump in to pure age pretty much cold turkey.  Teams have been told that the current school year age teams will split based on birth year and kids will not be allowed to play up, with one exception: current 99s born in first half of 99 who will be seniors will be able to play birth year 98 next year.  That plan certainly will cause drama.  Have any similar announcements been made at the NTx ECNL clubs?

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Post by DDdad 20/10/15, 02:58 pm

no. No AP ECNL discussions at all. I THINK (dangerous) that most of the local ECNL teams at least in the '00 age bracket are birth year '99 heavy. 75% type heavy. The birth year 1999 players are slated to be U17 next year anyway and many will be committed or at least in serious discussions. I could see 1-3 players drop from each age group down one age group but would doubt it would be more than that.

It seems to me that the closer you are to U18, the less this really matters so I project very little movement in U16, U17 or U18 levels. Probably greater interest in the '04, '03 and '02 age groups. That might be a more interesting Silly Season next spring. Don't get me started on the '06 and '05's.
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Post by meriusrex 22/11/15, 12:42 pm

Rumor has it (via a current U14 and a current U15 ECNL parent, each from different clubs) that 2 of the 5 NTX ECNL clubs will be making changes to their ECNL rosters based on the age pure transition for Fall 2016. If that holds true I would expect that the other 3 would also be looking at making changes. WIll be interesting to see for sure!

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Post by tschlurker 23/11/15, 12:08 pm

In other threads there was a letter to ECNL DOCs from the ECNL mother ship stating that next year 99s and 98s would be age grouped together and there would be no pure 99 age group. Has anyone heard if that is still the ECNL plan?

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