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Post by Driver on 09/09/15, 05:00 pm

There are two styles of youth play:  Possession and Kickball.  the difference is all about control.  If your team controls the ball it doesn't matter whether it is a 40 or 5 yard pass.  A team that makes bunches of shorter passes into space that are picked off by the defense is no more a possession team than the one who can't spell mid field.  Possession means control.  If the open space is 30 yards downfield and the pass is to feet, you are still in control of the ball and game.  My favorite example though is the possession teams who work their way down the field and settle for a weak or mis-targeted shot rather than resetting and retaining control.  A weak shot to the keeper is no better than a 50 yard blast to the sweeper.

The best reason for the kickball game is that it takes less talent to compete.  It is no different than football or basketball where it is my stud vs yours with all the average kids expected to stay out of the way.  All is well until you find an opponent that plays team defense well enough to neutralize your stud.  Success most often determines tactics.  If it works, do it.  But have something else in your hip pocket to go to when you bog down.  I have found though over the years that a team seldom loses if they don't allow the other team to play with the ball.  A good possession offense may indeed be the best defense.

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Post by 10sDad on 10/09/15, 08:08 am

I am still trying to accept the fact that I am agreeing with Go on something...I need a minute here....
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Post by Guest on 10/09/15, 09:21 am

10sDad wrote:I am still trying to accept the fact that I am agreeing with Go on something...I need a minute here....

Ya kno 10s.... I thought I was the only one feeling this way. I found an 800 number that can help you redirect your confusion and disbelief, PM me and Ill give it to you. Best advice they gave me was to accept that GO is dropping dimes in this thread and if you still feel ill about it....just say to yourself 10 times, "A broken clock is right, twice a day..." Shocked

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Post by Lefty on 10/09/15, 11:41 am

Kickball is a reasonable approach to win a game if you have the more athletic team, and the other team does not have the athleticism to stop you, or the skill to keep possession.

The challenge becomes what to do when you run into a team as athletic as yours, or skilled and tactical enough to keep possession and stop your attacks and breakdown your defense? This seems to happen more and more the older they get.

Of course the topic of which is a better developmental approach for your DD is a whole different discussion.


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Post by go99 on 10/09/15, 11:45 am

ah now there it is. Perfect tactic to win games, pat yourself on the back and tell everyone what a great coach you are. Now teaching kids the beautiful game? thats a different story. Besides by the time they figure out they are screwed and can't play they will be someone else's problem anyway and the check will have already cleared
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Post by RightWingDad on 10/09/15, 12:16 pm

Let's hope the things US Soccer is trying to implement in '16 and '17 (7v7, 9v9 and smaller fields) will reduce some of the "enticement" for kickball in lieu of development.
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Post by ONLYASOCCERDAD on 10/09/15, 12:50 pm

RightWingDad wrote:Let's hope the things US Soccer is trying to implement  in '16 and '17 (7v7, 9v9 and smaller fields) will reduce some of the "enticement" for kickball in lieu of development.

enticement? pressure, fear and not being prepared are the reasons players boot the ball. i doubt, making fields smaller and reducing number of players will do much to reduce pressure and fear. if half the kids playing soccer in the USA spent 20% as much time on soccer homework as they do school homework, xbox etc.: we could play "the beautiful game".

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Post by RightWingDad on 10/09/15, 01:13 pm

Only, I don't really disagree. I was just stating some of the aspects of the game such as crosses and field switches really cannot be done at the younger ages b/c they just don't have the size or physical strength to do it on those large 11v11 fields.

Regarding how we Americans play the beautiful game I think our women stand a better chance of developing the right way and being competitive on the world stage than our men do. I think with our current US demographics I can emphatically state that our men will never develop or be competitive on the world stage.

Until the $'s (or demographics) shift from football, baseball or basket ball to soccer, the US men will always lag behind the world in all aspects of the game.
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Post by SD69 on 10/09/15, 01:29 pm

I'll probably get blasted for this, but what about the equivalent of the 3-line rule in hockey? Split the field into thirds and prohibit going from defensive third to offensive third without playing through the middle third first, at least for the younger (<14) ages. Seems like US Soccer are already implemented similar changes like adding build out lines that prohibit the keeper from punting, so they are open to changing certain aspects of the game already. What I fear is that the keeper will just give one of the backs a "kickball" roll and defender will just boot it down the field in this manner.
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Post by sprint on 10/09/15, 01:33 pm

[quote="go99"]ah now there it is.  Perfect tactic to win games, pat yourself on the back and tell everyone what a great coach you are.  Now teaching kids the beautiful game? thats a different story.  Besides by the time they figure out they are screwed and can't play they will be someone else's problem anyway and the check will have already cleared[/quote]


Or they will be in the Women's World Cup scoring 3 goals in the final and being named MVP. Smile



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Post by RightWingDad on 10/09/15, 01:55 pm

Pretty funny sprint. However I don't think Carli's shot from near midfield was kickball. That was heads up awareness that the goalie had come far off her line. If you check out her interviews it's also something that she practiced with her private skills coach over and over. Good for her, not kickball in my opinion.

I also seem to think England's now #1 leading scorer of all time also had a shot on goal from the center strip last year. See it here compared to a similar shot from David Beckham.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR4pFiC0Iag

However, yes I do think the US Women play a little too direct for my liking at times. I watched them play last year in Frisco vs Canada and I cannot recall the midfielder or defender but it seemed on more than maybe 5-10 times they tried to peg Rapinoe from 40, 50 or more yards out. I only counted one that did not result in a turnover of possession. I don't love that kind of soccer, but that's me.
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Post by sprint on 10/09/15, 02:09 pm

I agree on that shot, but overall, she is the prototype kickball developed player. Big, fast, strong and gives up possession way to easy by lobbing it forward or panicking under pressure.

The rub is it works well at the Women's National team level and she is a true asset to that team and deserved to be the MVP.

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Post by RightWingDad on 10/09/15, 11:40 pm

I know an handful of 04 coaches that don't preach or teach kickball. JK, RS and LW all work hard at teaching their kids possession soccer and quick decision making. Solar and FCD Elite execute that at the 03 level pretty darn well.

There is hope that these teams and coaches will change the way NTX soccer is perceived. Only time will tell.
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Post by ONLYASOCCERDAD on 11/09/15, 12:39 am

SD69 wrote:I'll probably get blasted for this, but what about the equivalent of the 3-line rule in hockey? Split the field into thirds and prohibit going from defensive third to offensive third without playing through the middle third first, at least for the younger (<14) ages. Seems like US Soccer are already implemented similar changes like adding build out lines that prohibit the keeper from punting, so they are open to changing certain aspects of the game already. What I fear is that the keeper will just give one of the backs a "kickball" roll and defender will just boot it down the field in this manner.

really good idea. whether its "thirds" or fourth's. i believe it was a two line pass in hockey. didn't realize back in 2005 NHL did away with red line....
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/as-scoring-drops--nhl-regretting-legalization-of-two-line-passes-212713841.html

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Post by Lefty on 11/09/15, 07:14 am

sprint wrote:I agree on that shot, but overall, she is the prototype kickball developed player.  Big, fast, strong and gives up possession way to easy by lobbing it forward or panicking under pressure.

The rub is it works well at the Women's National team level and she is a true asset to that team and deserved to be the MVP.

And it will continue to work well until another team assembles a team athletic enough to stop them, which no one has done to date, or a team is skilled and tactical enough to stop the attack and break down the defense which Japan does periodically.

Not quite the same case for the men.

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Post by planogirl on 11/09/15, 11:34 am

RightWingDad wrote:I know an handful of 04 coaches that don't preach or teach kickball. JK, RS and LW all work hard at teaching their kids possession soccer and quick decision making. Solar and FCD Elite execute that at the 03 level pretty darn well.

There is hope that these teams and coaches will change the way NTX soccer is perceived. Only time will tell.

Who are JK, RS and LW?

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Post by SD69 on 11/09/15, 11:49 am

D'feeters coach, Texans Dallas coach, and FCD Elite coach.
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Post by Nocryinginsoccer on 11/09/15, 03:56 pm

RightWingDad wrote:I know an handful of 04 coaches that don't preach or teach kickball. JK, RS and LW all work hard at teaching their kids possession soccer and quick decision making. Solar and FCD Elite execute that at the 03 level pretty darn well.

There is hope that these teams and coaches will change the way NTX soccer is perceived. Only time will tell.

I agree that these coaches typically teach/play possession soccer. However, the last few times I've seem RS play, there was more kickball than possession. I have always respected LW as a coach, but shockingly, I saw his 03's playing kickball in PLD as well. I was surprised because I always thought they played such good possession soccer. Oh well...I guess everyone can slip every now and then. Laughing

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Post by adufresne on 11/09/15, 04:05 pm

Nocryinginsoccer wrote:
RightWingDad wrote:I know an handful of 04 coaches that don't preach or teach kickball. JK, RS and LW all work hard at teaching their kids possession soccer and quick decision making. Solar and FCD Elite execute that at the 03 level pretty darn well.

There is hope that these teams and coaches will change the way NTX soccer is perceived. Only time will tell.

I agree that these coaches typically teach/play possession soccer.  However, the last few times I've seem RS play, there was more kickball than possession.  I have always respected LW as a coach, but shockingly, I saw his 03's playing kickball in PLD as well.  I was surprised because I always thought they played such good possession soccer.  Oh well...I guess everyone can slip every now and then. Laughing




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Post by ONLYASOCCERDAD on 11/09/15, 06:32 pm

Nocryinginsoccer wrote:
RightWingDad wrote:I know an handful of 04 coaches that don't preach or teach kickball. JK, RS and LW all work hard at teaching their kids possession soccer and quick decision making. Solar and FCD Elite execute that at the 03 level pretty darn well.

There is hope that these teams and coaches will change the way NTX soccer is perceived. Only time will tell.

I agree that these coaches typically teach/play possession soccer.  However, the last few times I've seem RS play, there was more kickball than possession.  I have always respected LW as a coach, but shockingly, I saw his 03's playing kickball in PLD as well.  I was surprised because I always thought they played such good possession soccer.  Oh well...I guess everyone can slip every now and then. Laughing

the coaches "teaching" didn't change from one game/season to the next. the talent he/she is teaching changes and the talent of opponents change. easy opponent! kids execute game plan. tough opponent causes stress and panic thus a kick ball here and there. dominating opponent! boot it or lose miserably

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Post by Read_These_Nikes on 11/09/15, 09:47 pm

Yall can debate kickball til the cows come home, non of these coaches teach kickball. Its a 11 year old girl who hasn't played enough soccer to have the confidence to play it back to goalie or switch it when a fast forward is closing in on her. You guys cant name one select coach that practices kickball. Half of the coaches are forced by parents to WIN, not to teach and develop their girls to play the GAME the right way. These are coaches that say nothing when the parents are coaching from the sideline SENT IT! As a parent it should be your job to find the coach that demands his team to play the right way win or loose and has the balls to tell parents to go find another club if they're all about winning.

Don't think just because your daughter is a role player on a top 5 team that she's better then the top girl on the #30 team who's parents are loyal and see their daughter is actually learning and developing.
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Post by go99 on 11/09/15, 10:10 pm

actually it is the coach that allows the 11yr old to play kickball, encourage it in fact. No they don't practice it they give pretend practice on possession and the boot it for the game. You want an 11 yr old to stop booting the ball? Sit her for booting it. Negative reinforcement for bad behavior and positive for good. So no the coaches do teach and encourage it and even the coaches listed have been guilty of it from time to time (less than others but still guilty). But in the end it still comes back to parents. The problem that even the good coach has is that they are caught between their desire to teach and their need to win enough to keep parents around long enough for them to teach.

Oh and sorry there is a very good chance that a role player on a top 5 team is probably better than a girl on #30 team and your biggest mistake is thinking the parents loyalty or anything the parents do determines the ability of the child. Unless boys are wildly different than girls there aren't alot of PPl superstars rising up at U16. The top kids weren't all on the best teams and the drop off of "top" players has been astounding but there aren't any "wow who is that kid and where did he come from" Competition helps the talent and you drop out of the top 30 and your level of competition is quite a bit from the top 5. So if your DD is on #30 and she is as good or better than girls on the top 5 she is wasting her time move her for better competition. The loyalty is just a sales job from the coach to keep from losing his best player. A good coach would tell her you need to be playing at a higher level not keep her because its good for him
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Post by Read_These_Nikes on 11/09/15, 11:51 pm

You made some good points and I agree with a lot of them main thing being parents, but at age 11 they are still developing and being on a #30 team doesn't mean they cant pass, run, and shoot with the best of them. With a strong foundation and talent a player can thrive in any environment. If your daughter's on a top team and yall just so happen to match with a bottom of the barrel team you can always spot those standout players and most of the time it doesn't take long. Are you saying that's it not possible for a player to stay on the same team (#30) for the next two years to improve substantially? There's no way that player could end up being a better player than that role player? Wins and losses mean nothing at ages 10-13, as long as the player has that foundation with skills and talent they'll have no worries at age 14 when being on top teams start to matter.

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Post by RightWingDad on 12/09/15, 12:04 am

adufresne wrote: You can't lose if it's never in your half.

I saw a goalie score once ;-)
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Post by ONLYASOCCERDAD on 12/09/15, 02:48 am

Read_These_Nikes wrote:Yall can debate kickball til the cows come home, non of these coaches teach kickball. Its a 11 year old girl who hasn't played enough soccer to have the confidence to play it back to goalie or switch it when a fast forward is closing in on her. You guys cant name one select coach that practices kickball. Half of the coaches are forced by parents to WIN, not to teach and develop their girls to play the GAME the right way. These are coaches that say nothing when the parents are coaching from the sideline SENT IT! As a parent it should be your job to find the coach that demands his team to play the right way win or loose and has the balls to tell parents to go find another club if they're all about winning.

Don't think just because your daughter is a role player on a top 5 team that she's better then the top girl on the #30 team who's parents are loyal and see their daughter is actually learning and developing.

DING DING DING!!! YOU ARE SPOT ON Smile

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