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How to Spot a Hack Coach

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Post by planogirl 28/10/15, 01:01 pm

Found this from south cal forum, fyi and fun:    http://www.socalsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62411



Been asked recently by a few parents at the younger ages about "good coaches". Wanted to share my thoughts. As you’re reading this, the opposite applies to good coaches . . . .


The worse the coach, the more he relies on size, strength, size of players.

Bad coaches have their team play different in practice than in games.

Coaches who only care about winning seldom provide meaningful tactical and technical feedback to players in games. They just yell.

Bad coaches blame players, not themselves.

The worse the coach, the more he yells.

The worse the coach, the more he tries to dictate every play, every touch, every decision.

The worse the coach, the more he switches tactics during the game.

Bad coaches are never honest with players on what they need to work on to develop.

Bad coaches get upset when parents and players ask questions because it runs risk of unmasking their incompetence.

Bad coaches tend to be “happy” with “E” and “D” licenses.

Awful coaches tend to miss team training, games, and often distracted at practice talking story with fellow coaches (paid babysitting).

Bad clubs tend to have coaching carousel year to year with no common style of play (annual relearning by players)

Bad coaches ignore poor play from “favorites” and find every excuse to find fault with players who don’t’ fit their profile.

Bad coaches put players on a first team to fill rosters and have no hope of anything more than 5-10 minutes (if they’re lucky) play time instead of putting them on a “B” or “C” team.

Bad coaches say starting and play time is based on not missing practice and performance, but they continually favor players who regularly miss practice and/or play poorly if they fit their ideal of preferred player type

Bad clubs regularly promote man-child types to play up based solely on size but lack skill, smarts, technique

Bad coaches regularly sit smaller, less aggressive but skillful, smart, tactically gifted players in favor of the less skilled manchild

Bad coaches have teams that rarely build / play out of the back

Bad coaches routinely field teams year after year that are unsynchronized, chaotic, constantly lose possession after 2-3 passing sequences on average

Bad coaches have teams who only win through some combination of brute strength, size, power, aggressiveness

Bad coaches have teams with no identity (no common style of play, formation, playing philosophy, player / positional roles and responsibilities ill defined, players often confused)

Bad coaches only talk about tournaments and league schedule at start of year parent/player/coach meeting and never talk about player development, style of play, team development, tactics, how he will improve game intelligence, and so on and so forth.

Bad coaches rely on poaching other clubs A teams rather than developing their own talent.
Bad coaches recruit starting NOW and will have an entire team already made using stars from other clubs.

Bad coaches regularly blame the referee for losing.

Bad coaches play favorites with encouragement and then yells at other players. Bad coaches let club politics dictate who plays on the field and for how long.

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Post by jogobonito06 28/10/15, 01:56 pm

planogirl wrote:

Coaches who only care about winning seldom provide meaningful tactical and technical feedback to players in games. They just yell.


That's just not true. Some people think our coach yells too much but the proof is in the pudding. We have won every game but one this season and that one loss was because of a terrible PK call.
Our kids are only 9 - how in the world do you expect them to know what to do in every situation on the field??

He may yell, but the things he is yelling to the girls are definitely meaningful from a tactical standpoint.

Our defenders need constant reminders to clear the ball. It doesn't matter if there is pressure or not. The other team CANNOT score if we get it out of our defensive 1/3.

Likewise, on the rare occasion one of our midfielders touches the ball, they NEED to be reminded to SEND it through. Otherwise, they might hold it too long and give it up to the other team.

And the forwards MUST be told constantly to SHOOT! I don't care where they are on the field, they all try to dribble and find that perfect shot, so dammit, just SHOOT!

Last Spring we only had 6 girls and now we have enough for 2 full teams. There are more kids coming out every practice. You want to know why? Because we WIN!

Last time I checked that was the point of playing sports.
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Post by nolanryan 28/10/15, 02:37 pm

I think the article was referring to coaches that constantly yell "at" the players as opposed to yelling "to" the players.  I have observed coaches that yell "to" the players and they are yelling instructions and when those instructions are followed, praise is heaped upon that player.  When they aren't, the players are pulled and counseled discreetly.  

I have also observed coaches yelling "at" the players, because they got physically beat on a ball, or were outrun, or missed a shot.  I specifically remember an opposing coach pulling 2 players (11 years old) off the field because they didn't execute a sequence properly and he proceeded to berate them on the sideline while play continued.  You could tell the team became demoralized and we scored on them and beat them.  That team disbanded 1 year later.
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Post by PremierLeagueFan 28/10/15, 03:38 pm

jogobonito07 wrote:
Our defenders need constant reminders to clear the ball.  It doesn't matter if there is pressure or not.  The other team CANNOT score if we get it out of our defensive 1/3.

Likewise, on the rare occasion one of our midfielders touches the ball, they NEED to be reminded to SEND it through.  Otherwise, they might hold it too long and give it up to the other team.

And the forwards MUST be told constantly to SHOOT!  I don't care where they are on the field, they all try to dribble and find that perfect shot, so dammit, just SHOOT!

Last Spring we only had 6 girls and now we have enough for 2 full teams.  There are more kids coming out every practice.  You want to know why?  Because we WIN!  

Last time I checked that was the point of playing sports.

I hate to bust your bubble but the methods you are describing are the hallmark of kickball that will easily lead to failure as the team moves forward.

Your coach and your parents need to realize that ball mastery is the most essential development objective and yet you are so comfortable with the "Send it, blast it mentality" that I felt compelled to advise to rethink your belief on the subject, before you find out the hard way and lose your team entirely.
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Post by Guest 28/10/15, 03:40 pm

PremierLeagueFan wrote:
jogobonito07 wrote:
Our defenders need constant reminders to clear the ball.  It doesn't matter if there is pressure or not.  The other team CANNOT score if we get it out of our defensive 1/3.

Likewise, on the rare occasion one of our midfielders touches the ball, they NEED to be reminded to SEND it through.  Otherwise, they might hold it too long and give it up to the other team.

And the forwards MUST be told constantly to SHOOT!  I don't care where they are on the field, they all try to dribble and find that perfect shot, so dammit, just SHOOT!

Last Spring we only had 6 girls and now we have enough for 2 full teams.  There are more kids coming out every practice.  You want to know why?  Because we WIN!  

Last time I checked that was the point of playing sports.

I hate to bust your bubble but the methods you are describing are the hallmark of kickball that will easily lead to failure as the team moves forward.

Your coach and your parents need to realize that ball mastery is the most essential development objective and yet you are so comfortable with the "Send it, blast it mentality" that I felt compelled to advise to rethink your belief on the subject, before you find out the hard way and lose your team entirely.

Well played Jogo!!!  Like tossing a corn-dog to a dorkfish!!!

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Post by RightWingDad 28/10/15, 05:05 pm

I had to look it up, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH6sE8RMUuU

PLF, are you the same author that has an extensive history over on the boys side? Well, welcome to the girls side and it might pay to look up the word, sarcasm.
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Post by PremierLeagueFan 28/10/15, 05:44 pm

I am a straight shooter and a pretty serious soccer fan, but  I definitely need an emoticon or two to help me understand the sarcasm. The comment sounded just like the kind of thing we see on the boys forum (without the sarcasm).

I'm a good study so I will probably figure it sooner than later so I don't embarrass my DD by responding to soccer jokes meant to prove a point. (I hope)

The funny thing is that this style of play is very prevalent so I guess it is is better to play the straight man to the joke, than let it slide without a response. cheers

I did have to chuckle at the dorkfish comment, first time I ever heard that one and I can't wait to get some mileage on that comment in the future.
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Post by 5th Element 28/10/15, 08:04 pm

The information in the original list was lost on me after about the 12th entry. But I will share one characteristic that absolutely defines every crappy coach I have ever seen. They always have players on their teams at the youngest ages (U13 and below) that are NEVER moved out of their single, defining position. The "best" defensive player is always at fullback. The "best" offensive player is always at forward. I've listened to the ridiculous reasons for not completely developing players, but it's always the same old "she just won't stay at such-and-such position" or "that girl is just naturally a fill-in-the-position-here". Yet 99% of the time it's all about not doing anything risky that could result in a loss even if it benefits the player. If your daughter has been stuck in the exact same spot since ULittle, your coach almost certainly sucks. Your little girl will turn out to be a one dimensional player, like many of them in North Texas club soccer.

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Post by Keepleft 28/10/15, 10:12 pm

cheers


Last edited by SoccermomLeftkeep on 29/10/15, 08:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest 28/10/15, 10:16 pm

5th Element wrote:The information in the original list was lost on me after about the 12th entry.  But I will share one characteristic that absolutely defines every crappy coach I have ever seen.  They always have players on their teams at the youngest ages (U13 and below) that are NEVER moved out of their single, defining position.  The "best" defensive player is always at fullback.  The "best" offensive player is always at forward.  I've listened to the ridiculous reasons for not completely developing players, but it's always the same old "she just won't stay at such-and-such position" or "that girl is just naturally a fill-in-the-position-here".  Yet 99% of the time it's all about not doing anything risky that could result in a loss even if it benefits the player.  If your daughter has been stuck in the exact same spot since ULittle, your coach almost certainly sucks.  Your little girl will turn out to be a one dimensional player, like many of them in North Texas club soccer.

Isn't this most coaches?

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Post by the7wolf 28/10/15, 10:30 pm

I'm just happy "he's just like really handsome" didn't make the list otherwise I was in serious trouble.

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Post by boilerjoe_96 28/10/15, 10:48 pm

5th Element wrote:The information in the original list was lost on me after about the 12th entry.  But I will share one characteristic that absolutely defines every crappy coach I have ever seen.  They always have players on their teams at the youngest ages (U13 and below) that are NEVER moved out of their single, defining position.  The "best" defensive player is always at fullback.  The "best" offensive player is always at forward.  I've listened to the ridiculous reasons for not completely developing players, but it's always the same old "she just won't stay at such-and-such position" or "that girl is just naturally a fill-in-the-position-here".  Yet 99% of the time it's all about not doing anything risky that could result in a loss even if it benefits the player.  If your daughter has been stuck in the exact same spot since ULittle, your coach almost certainly sucks.  Your little girl will turn out to be a one dimensional player, like many of them in North Texas club soccer.

cheers cheers
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Post by soccerdad25 29/10/15, 07:46 am

Or the coach with a fake english accent sitting on the sidelines counting his money

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Post by Uwon't 29/10/15, 09:20 am

boilerjoe_96 wrote:
5th Element wrote:The information in the original list was lost on me after about the 12th entry.  But I will share one characteristic that absolutely defines every crappy coach I have ever seen.  They always have players on their teams at the youngest ages (U13 and below) that are NEVER moved out of their single, defining position.  The "best" defensive player is always at fullback.  The "best" offensive player is always at forward.  I've listened to the ridiculous reasons for not completely developing players, but it's always the same old "she just won't stay at such-and-such position" or "that girl is just naturally a fill-in-the-position-here".  Yet 99% of the time it's all about not doing anything risky that could result in a loss even if it benefits the player.  If your daughter has been stuck in the exact same spot since ULittle, your coach almost certainly sucks.  Your little girl will turn out to be a one dimensional player, like many of them in North Texas club soccer.

cheers cheers

I know this a light hearted thread but this one is both a parent and coach issue. When we started looking at academy last year, at every practice we went to,the coach never asked what position my daughter played. But every parent did for sure! Position, at 9yrs old, just crazy to me. And every time I reciprocated the question, they were always forwards and center mids, they tried defense a couple times but their daughter was "horrible" and really doesn't like to play it. And I'm sure the parents are not pushing/ influencing the coach in anyway, right?

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Post by jogobonito06 29/10/15, 09:49 am

Funny how that works in soccer.

You'd never ask the shortest kid to play the 5 in basketball or the slowest kid to play perimeter D. Not every kid can play shortstop or take the mound in baseball.

But in soccer everybody is a forward.
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Post by RightWingDad 29/10/15, 10:51 am

Yeah, and the O-lineman needs to spend a little time in the QB slot just to continue his development.

Good comparison Jogo.
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Post by Guest 29/10/15, 11:18 am

I was one of those parents upset about my DD playing all defense, but it turned out to be a blessing in disguise. She has embraced it, and I have embraced it as well. I do think some players are 'natural' whatevers.

That being said, I think forward is the worst place to be at fulltime. Midfield is optimal, but it's usually bottlenecked with coaches' kids, tenured kids, or kids that simply can't play defense or forward. Defense seems to have the greatest demand and smallest supply, and I think it's that way all the way from U-little to College and National team.


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Post by Guest 29/10/15, 11:35 am

Position specialization is never a blessing in disguise. I actually feel sorry for you. Expose them to everything so that no matter the opponent or new kids coming in they can play somewhere on the field. SMH at any kind of position specialization. Let them become a great soccer player and they can play anywhere. It might actually take time and might actually cost you goals but the development is for the kids...not the coaches or parents. The coaches and parents have had their time...

And if you are serious about any kind of comparison from football to soccer then the joke is on you.

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Post by Guest 29/10/15, 11:44 am

I prefer 'generally' over 'never' and 'always'. I agree that position specialization is generally a bad thing.

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Post by planogirl 29/10/15, 01:40 pm

This is the same suggestion I got from one of my friends' kid who got full ride and playing in college now.

Her explanation was most of the players who play in college were top players in their clubs and high schools. As top players majority of them grew up playing midfield and forward. During college recruiting, the defense supply is very small compare to midfielders and forwards, hence in high demand. Most of the college coaches like the natural defenders than converters.

My dd is a defender. :-0

Sho'nuff wrote:I was one of those parents upset about my DD playing all defense, but it turned out to be a blessing in disguise.  She has embraced it, and I have embraced it as well.  I do think some players are 'natural' whatevers.  

That being said, I think forward is the worst place to be at fulltime.  Midfield is optimal, but it's usually bottlenecked with coaches' kids, tenured kids, or kids that simply can't play defense or forward. Defense seems to have the greatest demand and smallest supply, and I think it's that way all the way from U-little to College and National team.


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Post by PremierLeagueFan 29/10/15, 01:47 pm

I believe that a 13 year old who doesn't yet have a positional assignment is probably not playing on a competitive team.

GK's should be decided early on and don't give me some story about the great world class GK from the USA who was a forward and then found his calling at U17.

Forwards and midfielders are usually interchangeable,  but defenders are definitely not.

Defensive positions need to develop excellent balance and agility to be able to adjust between forward and backward motion when jockeying an opposing player. Defenders need to instantly detect a change in ball movement, or shape and directional changes that offensive players don't have to worry about or much consider when making a run since they are the decision maker and create their own opportunity.

Youth Academy is the best time to rotate players in and out of positions to see what they prefer and to start them thinking about the roles and responsibilities that each position requires.

Tall in the back, athletic in the middle and fast up top are simple generalities that usually ring true.

All players must have technical brilliance, know the objectives of the game, and have the skill to execute those objectives. In that respect, all players are created equal.
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Post by Guest 29/10/15, 05:49 pm

PremierLeagueFan wrote:

Forwards and midfielders are usually interchangeable,  but defenders are definitely not....

AND

Tall in the back, athletic in the middle and fast up top are simple generalities that usually ring true......


This is old school American  soccer thinking. Defenders in the modern era can and should be interchangeable with any other field player. Don't get caught up in position. What matters is style of play. Attacking center mid on a kick and chase team still isn't going to see much of the ball except watching it fly over headed to the fast fwd. A modern, attacking possession style team may deploy outside backs that spend as much  time combining with others in the attacking third as forwards. Position won't matter until they're older, and even then the players with great soccer iq and skill will usually have options over players who only bring classic physical attributes for a given position.

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Post by PremierLeagueFan 29/10/15, 06:50 pm

4-3-3 wrote:
PremierLeagueFan wrote:

Forwards and midfielders are usually interchangeable,  but defenders are definitely not....

AND

Tall in the back, athletic in the middle and fast up top are simple generalities that usually ring true......


This is old school American  soccer thinking. Defenders in the modern era can and should be interchangeable with any other field player. Don't get caught up in position. What matters is style of play. Attacking center mid on a kick and chase team still isn't going to see much of the ball except watching it fly over headed to the fast fwd. A modern, attacking possession style team may deploy outside backs that spend as much  time combining with others in the attacking third as forwards. Position won't matter until they're older, and even then the players with great soccer iq and skill will usually have options over players who only bring classic physical attributes for a given position.

Nope, GK's must be tall at least 6'4" and Central Defenders must be at least 6'0-6'5". Other than that 5'8" is the standard minimum for males. The same rules apply for women just change GK to 5'10" and field players to 5'4".

Short Skill does not overcome tall skill, that is just wishful thinking.  A big DD will easily push a smaller play off the ball and a more physical player can impose their will in tight space.

This is not the same as skill vs BFS, where the argument has some validity.

Offensive players are terrible at defense and there are no realistic scenarios where the forwards swap position with defense unless of course you are trying to lose the game. The all powerful every position player is not part of the modern game. Specialization is a key component of successful players and I don't see Messi on the back four anytime ever.
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Post by Guest 29/10/15, 09:01 pm

People use Messi way too often to make all sorts of random claims about soccer. Just stop it. The man is in the discussion with two or three others for the greatest player who ever laced then up. What applies for him doesn't apply to nearly ANYONE else who ever played the sport. Messi may not be a defender, but I guarantee you la masia taught him to defend and he had defensive responsibilities as a youth. He had defensive responsibilities to win back balls immediately under Pep, as did all of Peps players in his tiki taka heyday. All you have to do is look at Eden Hazard getting benched this season for not doing the dirty work defensively to know that even world class attacking players need all elements to their game. Ignoring the fact both Messi and Hazard are much smaller than the gross physical generalizations you made, the modern game simply  does not follow those old english standards...not at the pro level and not at highly competitive youth levels either. Ironic you make those comments in a how to spot a hack coach thread? Yes most keepers and center backs are tall, and most wide players are fast...beyond that, the key attributes for other positions are more about technical and mental attributes than the physical...for non-hack coaches that is.

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Post by DDsdadforsoccer 29/10/15, 10:26 pm

Me thinks premier is teasing.

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