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How to Spot a Hack Coach

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Post by PremierLeagueFan 04/11/15, 09:24 am

bwgophers wrote:
Two dorkfish on the same corn dog, now THAT's impressive! Twisted Evil

I think it's time to add a new acronym to protect unsuspecting dorkfish from snarky comments.

If you feel a post is incredibly foolish, but devoid of a sarcasm symbol to confirm it's motive then post this first: ITDB?

"Is that Dorkfish Bait"

Thanks to all Dorkfish for adhering to this important policy
Unofficial President of "Dorkfish United" aka (DorkU)

Oh and BTW, our new Slogan is:
"We won't fall for that corndog again"  lol!

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Post by Guest 04/11/15, 12:31 pm

Sho'nuff wrote:
Curious- What do you recommend?

Also, I never see the athletes themselves being cited as the reason.  Is a phenom athlete going to be as hungry to put in the work needed? Where do they find the motivation?

I don't see how you can fault the athletes when they get pimped by coaches to win games at the expense of their long term development. They don't have much leverage. And if our system is so expensive only the middle class can afford to be an elite player, you've pared down the pool of "hungry" and talented even further by adding "needs to have well-paid parents" too.

I don't have any answers....just like to b*tch about stuff. LOL. I think it all goes back to pay to play, and USSF not being strong enough to dismantle or defang BOTH us youth and us club and replace them with something better for players and their parents.

NTX can't change on its own - probably doesn't want to anyway. Has to come from the top.



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Post by totalfootball 05/11/15, 10:31 pm

http://www.magpictures.com/nowitzki/
They showed this movie on axs last night I believe, Watch this movie and maybe it will help you with some of the questions you have.  Dirk thinks 80% is will power to achieve what you want,20% is skills/ athleticism.   In his case, nba championship I believe.   The relationship he still has with his high school coach (holger) is simply amazing. There are 1000s of 6'10" , superbly athletic kids here in usa and holger had one 6'10" German blonde kid and made him into what he is. The drive has to come from within to be that good and the kid has to have someone to guide and coach.

Sho'nuff wrote:
4-3-3 wrote:
The bigger waste to me is NTX nor u.s. soccer develops its tremendously athletic players into skill/technique players. No phenom athletes as hold up players or Ibra/Drogba style target forwards...no dominant athletes as midfielders. We turn our best athletes into nothing more than fast defenders or run in behind, speed forwards.  We can't make the Xavi's, which is understandable considering you need the system, culture and surrounding environment to produce that kind of class. But the fact we can't make any Pogbas, Yayas, Kakas or Mullers seems like we're wasting our athletic resources. I doubt even a post knee injury Abby W. would've been a FWD in NTX...not fast enough...NTX would've had her at ctr back and told her to focus on winning every defensive header.

Curious- What do you recommend?

Also, I never see the athletes themselves being cited as the reason.  Is a phenom athlete going to be as hungry to put in the work needed? Where do they find the motivation?

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Post by Lefty 06/11/15, 06:08 am

totalfootball wrote:http://www.magpictures.com/nowitzki/
They showed this movie on axs last night I believe, Watch this movie and maybe it will help you with some of the questions you have.  Dirk thinks 80% is will power to achieve what you want,20% is skills/ athleticism.   In his case, nba championship I believe.   The relationship he still has with his high school coach (holger) is simply amazing. There are 1000s of 6'10" , superbly athletic kids here in usa and holger had one 6'10" German blonde kid and made him into what he is. The drive has to come from within to be that good and the kid has to have someone to guide and coach.

Sho'nuff wrote:
4-3-3 wrote:
The bigger waste to me is NTX nor u.s. soccer develops its tremendously athletic players into skill/technique players. No phenom athletes as hold up players or Ibra/Drogba style target forwards...no dominant athletes as midfielders. We turn our best athletes into nothing more than fast defenders or run in behind, speed forwards.  We can't make the Xavi's, which is understandable considering you need the system, culture and surrounding environment to produce that kind of class. But the fact we can't make any Pogbas, Yayas, Kakas or Mullers seems like we're wasting our athletic resources. I doubt even a post knee injury Abby W. would've been a FWD in NTX...not fast enough...NTX would've had her at ctr back and told her to focus on winning every defensive header.

Curious- What do you recommend?

Also, I never see the athletes themselves being cited as the reason.  Is a phenom athlete going to be as hungry to put in the work needed? Where do they find the motivation?

And he focused on training the player to be what he could eventually be.

A superbly skilled / shooting big man the likes of which the world has never seen before, rather than focusing on the team and using him as the biggest kid on the floor with his back to the basket to win 8th grade games in Germany.  

Had he done the latter, as we in the US do with most of our soccer athletes, Dirk would have been just another 6'10 grinder who may have lasted a couple of years on some teams bench.

The simple answer is the COACHES care about the team over the players, as is their job.  You may hear otherwise as they need the players (parents) to pay them, but at the end of the day they put team interests ahead of player interests, and that is NOT the way to develop players.  

If you want someone, besides yourself, to care about what is your kids developmental best interest, get a TRAINER who does not care about any team result.

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Post by AtThePitch 06/11/15, 07:11 am

Have to add, and a trainer that is not constantly trying to recruit kids to build his own squad. If he is a trainer, he should only be training.... otherwise wolf in sheep's clothing.
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Post by Guest 06/11/15, 08:26 am

Lefty wrote:
totalfootball wrote:http://www.magpictures.com/nowitzki/
They showed this movie on axs last night I believe, Watch this movie and maybe it will help you with some of the questions you have.  Dirk thinks 80% is will power to achieve what you want,20% is skills/ athleticism.   In his case, nba championship I believe.   The relationship he still has with his high school coach (holger) is simply amazing. There are 1000s of 6'10" , superbly athletic kids here in usa and holger had one 6'10" German blonde kid and made him into what he is. The drive has to come from within to be that good and the kid has to have someone to guide and coach.

Sho'nuff wrote:
4-3-3 wrote:
The bigger waste to me is NTX nor u.s. soccer develops its tremendously athletic players into skill/technique players. No phenom athletes as hold up players or Ibra/Drogba style target forwards...no dominant athletes as midfielders. We turn our best athletes into nothing more than fast defenders or run in behind, speed forwards.  We can't make the Xavi's, which is understandable considering you need the system, culture and surrounding environment to produce that kind of class. But the fact we can't make any Pogbas, Yayas, Kakas or Mullers seems like we're wasting our athletic resources. I doubt even a post knee injury Abby W. would've been a FWD in NTX...not fast enough...NTX would've had her at ctr back and told her to focus on winning every defensive header.

Curious- What do you recommend?

Also, I never see the athletes themselves being cited as the reason.  Is a phenom athlete going to be as hungry to put in the work needed? Where do they find the motivation?

And he focused on training the player to be what he could eventually be.  

A superbly skilled / shooting big man the likes of which the world has never seen before, rather than focusing on the team and using him as the biggest kid on the floor with his back to the basket to win 8th grade games in Germany.  

Had he done the latter, as we in the US do with most of our soccer athletes, Dirk would have been just another 6'10 grinder who may have lasted a couple of years on some teams bench.

The simple answer is the COACHES care about the team over the players, as is their job.  You may hear otherwise as they need the players (parents) to pay them, but at the end of the day they put team interests ahead of player interests, and that is NOT the way to develop players.  

If you want someone, besides yourself, to care about what is your kids developmental best interest, get a TRAINER who does not care about any team result.

I love that Dirk example! He continued to work with Holger as a professional, so I ask you guys this soccer question: What age do you believe a player focus on team training over individual training?

Lefty, I agree with your post about coaches caring about the team more than the individual players. I don't fault them for that. In fact, I think I've found my new avatar name.


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Post by Guest 06/11/15, 09:15 am

Soccer_Cynic wrote:
Lefty wrote:
totalfootball wrote:http://www.magpictures.com/nowitzki/
They showed this movie on axs last night I believe, Watch this movie and maybe it will help you with some of the questions you have.  Dirk thinks 80% is will power to achieve what you want,20% is skills/ athleticism.   In his case, nba championship I believe.   The relationship he still has with his high school coach (holger) is simply amazing. There are 1000s of 6'10" , superbly athletic kids here in usa and holger had one 6'10" German blonde kid and made him into what he is. The drive has to come from within to be that good and the kid has to have someone to guide and coach.

Sho'nuff wrote:
4-3-3 wrote:
The bigger waste to me is NTX nor u.s. soccer develops its tremendously athletic players into skill/technique players. No phenom athletes as hold up players or Ibra/Drogba style target forwards...no dominant athletes as midfielders. We turn our best athletes into nothing more than fast defenders or run in behind, speed forwards.  We can't make the Xavi's, which is understandable considering you need the system, culture and surrounding environment to produce that kind of class. But the fact we can't make any Pogbas, Yayas, Kakas or Mullers seems like we're wasting our athletic resources. I doubt even a post knee injury Abby W. would've been a FWD in NTX...not fast enough...NTX would've had her at ctr back and told her to focus on winning every defensive header.

Curious- What do you recommend?

Also, I never see the athletes themselves being cited as the reason.  Is a phenom athlete going to be as hungry to put in the work needed? Where do they find the motivation?

And he focused on training the player to be what he could eventually be.  

A superbly skilled / shooting big man the likes of which the world has never seen before, rather than focusing on the team and using him as the biggest kid on the floor with his back to the basket to win 8th grade games in Germany.  

Had he done the latter, as we in the US do with most of our soccer athletes, Dirk would have been just another 6'10 grinder who may have lasted a couple of years on some teams bench.

The simple answer is the COACHES care about the team over the players, as is their job.  You may hear otherwise as they need the players (parents) to pay them, but at the end of the day they put team interests ahead of player interests, and that is NOT the way to develop players.  

If you want someone, besides yourself, to care about what is your kids developmental best interest, get a TRAINER who does not care about any team result.

I love that Dirk example!  He continued to work with Holger as a professional, so I ask you guys this soccer question:  What age do you believe a player focus on team training over individual training?  

Lefty, I agree with your post about coaches caring about the team more than the individual players.  I don't fault them for that.  In fact, I think I've found my new avatar name.

Never. The team training and the extra personal training go hand in hand. Steph Curry, Michael Jordan, Walter Payton, any great individual athlete is not great because they were born that way. They aren't great because of what they do at team practices. They are great because of the tens of thousands of hours that they spend doing extra training outside of team practice. The self motivation and the long term focus that it takes to be great are the most impressive part of it all.....and what most people are lacking.

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Post by Guest 06/11/15, 12:37 pm

Its widely understood Malcolm Gladwells 10k hour thing doesn't apply as well to sports. I could spend 20 thousand hours over the next 10 years working on my golf swing and Im never going to be as good as Tiger, Jack or even anyone on the Sr Tour for that matter. Yes a major factor is the sustained effort and the right training, but part of greatness is the genetic hand you're dealt. My DD works her butt off and has a chance to be a really good player, but her ceiling will never be as high as a true phenom genetically gifted athlete. If we have more than our share of these kids, seems like we should be able to develop at least a few every few years into top class players. We would wipe the floor with every nation if they had a FIFA u10 world cup....but minnows are eating our lunch by u17 and those great athletes from u10 are nowhere to be found.

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Post by RightWingDad 06/11/15, 06:01 pm

My contention has always been that once the great athletes, males anyway, hit U14-16 they head to sports that offer big time scholarships at big time schools and the promise of $$ at the pro level.

Of recent, some have suggested I'm wrong about that.

Am I?
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Post by AtThePitch 06/11/15, 06:27 pm

How many pro soccer teams are there in the world as compared to NFL, NBA, NHL?
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Post by AtThePitch 06/11/15, 06:29 pm

The issue is the American kids are generally focused on the college scholarship, not necessarily the pro contract.

How many men's collegiate soccer teams are there compared to women's soccer teams in this country. Title IX anyone.
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Post by Zizou 07/11/15, 07:14 am

Whats wrong with playing college ball getting an education? Then maybe playing a little pro ball while continuing your education. This seems to be a reasonable way for a young lady to fulfill her soccer dreams but yet realizing and being prepared for life after soccer.

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Post by Lefty 07/11/15, 11:07 am

Zizou wrote:Whats wrong with playing college ball getting an education? Then maybe playing a little pro ball while continuing your education. This seems to be a reasonable way for a young lady to fulfill her soccer dreams but yet realizing and being prepared for life after soccer.

Ok plan as long as you anticipate that only a fraction (less than 50%) of the players that sign (regardless the amount of $) are still at the same school and on scholarship by their junior year.

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