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LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion - Page 3 Pixel
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LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion

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LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion - Page 3 Empty Re: LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion

Post by Lakedad 12/11/15, 01:07 pm

FriscoSoccer05 wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
Soccerzrus wrote:The current aug-dec 05 do not have to find a team to play with, they are the new 05 group that will be for sure qualifying this summer. The Jan-July 05 that are currently playing select will either continue to play up on their current team ( which as of August will be considered an 04 team) or go back down and play with the new 05 AP group. 05 AP are who will be qualifying this summer. Every current select team will keep their bye and move to the next age together. The difference will be that every single team will be classified a year older than they were before.
Current Classification.               August Classification
05.                                             04
04.                                             03
03.                                             02
02.                                             01
Etc. these are all the exact same current teams, they are just having their age group changed. The aug - dec player can continue with the team and play up into the new age of the team, or drop down and play with their AP age group. With these changes it make the current 06 players that are actually 05 August-December the new 05 AP age group. That AP 05 group is who is qualifying for select this summer

Unfortunately, your information is outdated.  It's just that the "new" information has not been published yet.

What was published a couple of weeks back, is that USSF screwed up their original definition of the age matrix ('06's would be U10 in 2016, 05's would be U11, and so on... - that was WRONG).  Now it has been corrected and '06's will be U11's in 2016, '05's U12, etc...

LH made their original decision on how they would handle byes and the switch to AP next summer, based on what USSF/NTX originally published (an is now outdated).  Under that scenario, '06's would not have gone select this summer.  '05's would be holding a full QT for LH U11, and U12 and above would work according to the standard promotion system.  Byes earned from this years U11 play would apply to U12 next year, U12 byes earned from this year would apply to U13, etc...  The byes would essentially move with the OLDEST players from the team's, and it would be up to the individual teams/clubs to decide if they wanted their younger players to continue to "play up" or if they wanted to transition their teams to calendar year rosters.

However, word on the street (and I have been getting a consistent message from the people I have been talking to, and have been reliable sources in the past), is that even with the recent change in the Age Matrix, LH is NOT going to modify their process.

That means that byes earned in U11 play this year, will still apply to U12 next year.  HOWEVER, with the recent "correction" to the age matrix, that means that LH's decision to not do anything differently, actually represents a HUGE change.  U12 will now be '05 AP next year, which means that any Aug-Dec '04's that are currently on U11 in LH, will have to play in U13 next year.  HOWEVER, since the bye their team earns in U11 this year, will be for U12 next year, that means that ALL of those Aug-Dec '04's will be FORCED to find a new team to play on next year, UNLESS the coach wants to forfeit their U12 bye and keep the team together and take their shot at qualifying for U13 D3 via the QT this summer.  

This same process follows for all age groups from U12->U16.  Basically, LH is now essentially "forcing" roughly 40% of their players (all of the Aug-Dec birthdates in each age group) to find new teams next year, as they will not be able to play with the current team they are playing on, unless the team decides to forfeit their current bye in order to try and qualify for D3 in the older age group.

The net is, if any of the Aug-Dec '05's currently playing U10 academy, want to play in LH U12 D1 or D2 next year, they will likely have to go find an existing team that has a bye earned from this year's U11 league play, or be given an existing bye in U12 that their club owns, but has been abandoned by the team that earned it.  Otherwise, any "new" AP '05 teams will likely be competing for a few open spots in U12 D3 for next fall.

The '06's will be the only age group holding a "full blown" QT that will populate D1-D3.

Now, NONE OF THIS HAS BE WRITTEN DOWN AND PUBLISHED YET.  However, depending on who I speak with, this decision is somewhere between 75% certain and 100% DONE DEAL.

The net, is that if this decision is the way it flushes out, expect to see a lot of chaos this spring/summer.  Clubs shuffling rosters, clubs playing "musical byes", small clubs/indy teams making deals with each other and/or joining bigger clubs in order to keep rosters together, and unfortunately, a fair number of teams will just end up imploding because the roster change and uncertainty will just be too much.

All so that we can better serve the fraction of 1% of players that are good enough for WNT consideration...

With this kind of disruption it creates an opportunity.  I would not be surprised to see a JR ECNL league popping up similiar to what SoCal has done.
You are spot on.  FC Dallas and D'Feeters have already posted open tryouts for a 'Pre-ECNL' team on the forum.  I would bet the others aren't far behind.

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Post by Guest 12/11/15, 01:13 pm

Can a first-time poster copy and paste the email(s)?

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Post by Guest 12/11/15, 01:38 pm

It is interesting to me that the United States Soccer Federation has chosen to take a path that is so hostile to the 2.5 million kids that are playing soccer on TEAMS. 

I think it's a staggering combination of arrogance and stupidty that led to such a decision. Arrogance in that they would show such absolute disregard for the very foundation that their glass tower is built upon. Stupidity in that 1. Changing the age deadline will have zero benefit in helping them identify players (that's one of their stated reasons for doing this, moronic, I defy anyone to make a reasoned explaination of that policy/reality disconnect) The only way to identify quality players is to go watch them play, if you think they can play then ask'em when their birthday is. 

2. It's really stupid to be shooting missles into the foundation that your building is standing on. 

I grew up in a different sport, swimming. We experienced something like this. Swimming was part of the AAU prior to 1976 and the AAU jacked with us and jacked with us and jacked with us. Swimming is no longer part of the AAU, we told the AAU to pound sand and we began to govern ourselves, still do to this day. 

USSF needs to get a clue......youth soccer does not exist for them.......they exist for youth soccer. They need to reconsider who is serving who?  

If your General is not serving the army, you don't get a new army.....you get a new General.

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Post by AtThePitch 12/11/15, 01:42 pm

Sorry, but the crux of the issue here is the byes.

The byes are a product of our promotion relegation system here in NTX. If it wasn't for those byes the majority of squads would opt to just stay together.

Socal, has no promotion relegation. They sign up for their division based on where they feel they should be playing at to develop.
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Post by TatonkaBurger 12/11/15, 01:48 pm

Lakedad wrote:
FriscoSoccer05 wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
Soccerzrus wrote:The current aug-dec 05 do not have to find a team to play with, they are the new 05 group that will be for sure qualifying this summer. The Jan-July 05 that are currently playing select will either continue to play up on their current team ( which as of August will be considered an 04 team) or go back down and play with the new 05 AP group. 05 AP are who will be qualifying this summer. Every current select team will keep their bye and move to the next age together. The difference will be that every single team will be classified a year older than they were before.
Current Classification.               August Classification
05.                                             04
04.                                             03
03.                                             02
02.                                             01
Etc. these are all the exact same current teams, they are just having their age group changed. The aug - dec player can continue with the team and play up into the new age of the team, or drop down and play with their AP age group. With these changes it make the current 06 players that are actually 05 August-December the new 05 AP age group. That AP 05 group is who is qualifying for select this summer

Unfortunately, your information is outdated.  It's just that the "new" information has not been published yet.

What was published a couple of weeks back, is that USSF screwed up their original definition of the age matrix ('06's would be U10 in 2016, 05's would be U11, and so on... - that was WRONG).  Now it has been corrected and '06's will be U11's in 2016, '05's U12, etc...

LH made their original decision on how they would handle byes and the switch to AP next summer, based on what USSF/NTX originally published (an is now outdated).  Under that scenario, '06's would not have gone select this summer.  '05's would be holding a full QT for LH U11, and U12 and above would work according to the standard promotion system.  Byes earned from this years U11 play would apply to U12 next year, U12 byes earned from this year would apply to U13, etc...  The byes would essentially move with the OLDEST players from the team's, and it would be up to the individual teams/clubs to decide if they wanted their younger players to continue to "play up" or if they wanted to transition their teams to calendar year rosters.

However, word on the street (and I have been getting a consistent message from the people I have been talking to, and have been reliable sources in the past), is that even with the recent change in the Age Matrix, LH is NOT going to modify their process.

That means that byes earned in U11 play this year, will still apply to U12 next year.  HOWEVER, with the recent "correction" to the age matrix, that means that LH's decision to not do anything differently, actually represents a HUGE change.  U12 will now be '05 AP next year, which means that any Aug-Dec '04's that are currently on U11 in LH, will have to play in U13 next year.  HOWEVER, since the bye their team earns in U11 this year, will be for U12 next year, that means that ALL of those Aug-Dec '04's will be FORCED to find a new team to play on next year, UNLESS the coach wants to forfeit their U12 bye and keep the team together and take their shot at qualifying for U13 D3 via the QT this summer.  

This same process follows for all age groups from U12->U16.  Basically, LH is now essentially "forcing" roughly 40% of their players (all of the Aug-Dec birthdates in each age group) to find new teams next year, as they will not be able to play with the current team they are playing on, unless the team decides to forfeit their current bye in order to try and qualify for D3 in the older age group.

The net is, if any of the Aug-Dec '05's currently playing U10 academy, want to play in LH U12 D1 or D2 next year, they will likely have to go find an existing team that has a bye earned from this year's U11 league play, or be given an existing bye in U12 that their club owns, but has been abandoned by the team that earned it.  Otherwise, any "new" AP '05 teams will likely be competing for a few open spots in U12 D3 for next fall.

The '06's will be the only age group holding a "full blown" QT that will populate D1-D3.

Now, NONE OF THIS HAS BE WRITTEN DOWN AND PUBLISHED YET.  However, depending on who I speak with, this decision is somewhere between 75% certain and 100% DONE DEAL.

The net, is that if this decision is the way it flushes out, expect to see a lot of chaos this spring/summer.  Clubs shuffling rosters, clubs playing "musical byes", small clubs/indy teams making deals with each other and/or joining bigger clubs in order to keep rosters together, and unfortunately, a fair number of teams will just end up imploding because the roster change and uncertainty will just be too much.

All so that we can better serve the fraction of 1% of players that are good enough for WNT consideration...

With this kind of disruption it creates an opportunity.  I would not be surprised to see a JR ECNL league popping up similiar to what SoCal has done.
You are spot on.  FC Dallas and D'Feeters have already posted open tryouts for a 'Pre-ECNL' team on the forum.  I would bet the others aren't far behind.

The rest will follow very soon.  Clubs have to start figuring out their numbers sooner rather than later so that they have a little bit of control over the chaos of May and June.
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Post by tpitty 12/11/15, 01:52 pm

Caveat: Wait until Academy comes to the girls side.

FCD, Texans, Solar. The Elite (ECNL) will be out Elited by a straight pipeline to USWNT.

OLJW wrote:

1. Changing the age deadline will have zero benefit in helping them identify players (that's one of their stated reasons for doing this, moronic, I defy anyone to make a reasoned explanation of that policy/reality disconnect) The only way to identify quality players is to go watch them play, if you think they can play then ask'em when their birthday is. 

Regarding identification.
On the boys side, if a USSF scout is heading to watch a series of U13 games, no matter who is on that field they can be sure that the players are U13. No asking any parents, coaches, cousins, etc.
In the current format, they have to separate the kids they watch.

They are putting the players in groupings that they will play for on the national teams. U20,U19,U18, U17,  Will 99.9% of these kids play at that level? No. Can they easily be identified for those teams, yes. That has to be somewhat of a reasoned explanation. drunken

All pure speculation on my part. I don't know or care how it all falls out. There will be plenty of teams, and plenty of leagues. cheers


Last edited by tpitty on 12/11/15, 02:02 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : mambo taxi's)

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Post by bassinyaface 12/11/15, 01:54 pm

Anyone see the Mav's game last night?

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Post by jogobonito06 12/11/15, 02:04 pm

And college coaches will now be seeing teams almost 50/50 with freshman/sophomores, sophomores/juniors.

Doubles the workload of programs already stretched for funds.
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Post by My Money Pit 12/11/15, 02:07 pm

Two sides to this coin...One side, My DD will miss out on an entire year of select/development and jump straight into her second year. Other side, I just save thousands of dollars because of this...I'm torn...not really.
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Post by FriscoSoccer2004 12/11/15, 02:12 pm

jogobonito07 wrote:And college coaches will now be seeing teams almost 50/50 with freshman/sophomores, sophomores/juniors.  

Doubles the workload of programs already stretched for funds.

Little different, from my understanding a large percentage of the college coaches are watching players that have reached out to them expressing interest in attending their schools.

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Post by Guest 12/11/15, 02:19 pm

They are putting the players in groupings that they will play for on the national teams. U20,U19,U18, U17,  Will 99.9% of these kids play at that level? No. Can they easily be identified for those teams, yes. That has to be somewhat of a reasoned explanation. LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion - Page 3 Drunken_smilie

I'd call it quasi-reasoning. They know the kids age before they ever go see them play. The scouts aren't stumbling around the country hoping to accidentally bump into the correct age group and then find a genius happens to be playing CM that day.

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Post by SEAOTTER 12/11/15, 02:51 pm

LH is forcing the coaches to make their teams age pure now that the bye HAS to stay with the 05s. What I don't get it why do this? Let the current select teams phase themselves out over the years to come. The new academy teams coming through the pipeline will be built age pure. I cant see any reason to purposely blow teams up if they want to stay together.
The teams in U11 should be able to take their byes to U13 (04) and if they chose to have 05s on the team then so be it. Make U11 (06ap) and U12 (05ap) Qt for all the spots in those age groups. If an current 05 wants to drop down to an 05 AP then she knows it will be a team that has a chance for one of the 30 spots. how hard is that? So many teams from big clubs to small will be blown up because of the way they are planning to do it.


Last edited by SEAOTTER on 12/11/15, 05:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest 12/11/15, 04:02 pm

If you don't like what you are hearing about the direction they are planning to go, get on the horn to your coach, have your coach get on the horn to your DOC, and hopefully, your DOC will get on the horn to LHGCL.

Complaining on here won't get anything changed

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Post by lovesoccer 12/11/15, 11:39 pm

The right thing to have done is just to change each team age group name (ex: 04's become '03, 02 become '01). This would like existing teams in tact as they stand. That way they are now following the AP but allowing players to play up at their choice. It would leave all byes in tact and leave the decision making up to the parents/players if they stay with the team and not Dribble a team to cut players.

How is LHGCL going to hold up the 75% rule this year? A large number of teams have Aug-Dec. birthdays on them. Example our team if 50/50 and our 18 girl roster 10 of these girls have been together 4+ years with 7 of them being forced to leave the team if the above posts are accurate in how LHGCL is going to handle this situation.

Just not right to Dribble a team to cut players that don't want to leave their team/coach or make a lot of team fight for only a handful of spots in qualifying spots to keep teams intact. Shame on LHGCL if they do go through with this.

They could have handled this so much better when the ruling came down from US Soccer. They could have grandfathered this in. This summer would be AP 05 qualifying. While you would technically have 2 '05 age brackets one would be the grandfathered 04/05 age group playing U12 and AP '05 playing U11. In a few years this would be a none issue.



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Post by dadof3 13/11/15, 06:22 am

And if they did that they could add 30 more assets.

Instead of calling them U whatever...just call them 01s, 04s, 06s...and kids/parents can choose to play up or stay with their own age...just like it always has been.

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Post by wittymgr 13/11/15, 09:11 am

lovesoccer wrote:They could have handled this so much better when the ruling came down from US Soccer. They could have grandfathered this in. This summer would be AP 05 qualifying. While you would technically have 2 '05 age brackets one would be the grandfathered 04/05 age group playing U12 and AP '05 playing U11. In a few years this would be a none issue.  

You may be pointing the finger at the wrong entity. The North Texas State Soccer Association decided not to implement any grandfathering. LHGCL cannot do anything about this. The teams all register with a home association that directly reports to NTSSA. If you register a team with one older player, that team then must be classified as the older age group.

The bye situation is completely different. That is under the league's jurisdiction. Coaches, DOCs, and club presidents should be contacting the BOD to voice their opinion.
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Post by AtThePitch 13/11/15, 09:21 am

NTSSA had no choice to grandfather.  

All tournaments were moving to AP, all state and national tournaments were going to AP, National League, Region Premier league, etc...

All going AP at every age classification.


Last edited by AtThePitch on 13/11/15, 09:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by AtThePitch 13/11/15, 09:25 am

The stupid byes are a product of this NTX soccer community and it's never ending need for trophies, bumper stickers, and bragging rights...

Go read socals forum some of you. They are better. They do not have promotion and relegation. You sign up for your desired level of competition. To compete and foster development.

Can anyone argue that they do not produce quality players?
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Post by RightWingDad 13/11/15, 03:15 pm

soocerdreamzhp wrote:Anyone see the Mav's game last night?

I hope my burst out laughter did not disrupt anyone in the office. Good thing it's Friday!
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Post by Soccer Mom 08 13/11/15, 04:47 pm

I heard from a Club Director that he attended a meeting last Friday night, and they were told that players would not be allowed to play up.  In other words, 05's would play 05 and could not play up on an 04 team with their friends they are playing with now.  Anyone heard this?

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Post by soccer5555 16/11/15, 05:57 pm

As others have stated, teams could stay together if LHGCL keeps the byes with the OLDER players from the team.  Does anyone know why LHGCL has decided NOT to do this?  Do they not have a choice for some reason?  

Why leave the byes with the younger players from the team and thereby essentially f orce every team at every age group to have to rebuild?  Most girls want to stay with their current team/coach.  Shouldn't the LHGCL board be representing what the thousands of girls that play for them want?

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Post by Guest 16/11/15, 10:36 pm

The big clubs executed a coup on LHGCL about 10 years ago. They are inexorably destroying the league. I don't think the destruction of the league is their goal. I think their goal is to destroy the other Clubs. The destruction of the league is just acceptable collateral damage.

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Post by sportsnerd 16/11/15, 11:28 pm

soccer5555 wrote:As others have stated, teams could stay together if LHGCL keeps the byes with the OLDER players from the team.  Does anyone know why LHGCL has decided NOT to do this?  Do they not have a choice for some reason?  

Why leave the byes with the younger players from the team and thereby essentially f orce every team at every age group to have to rebuild?  Most girls want to stay with their current team/coach.  Shouldn't the LHGCL board be representing what the thousands of girls that play for them want?

My understanding at the older levels is the bye will go with the team as they move up... a team that is 2000/u16 (which is split 99/00) this year will be a 99 team/u17 team next year and will keep the bye that is earned. I believe there was a communication out to team managers saying this from LHGCL.

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Post by Switchfoot 17/11/15, 08:05 am

If I was the director of PPL and if LHGCL does in fact leave the clubs bye with the age group and make the teams blow up or qualify D3 then I would implement a complete overhaul and requlify all age groups in PPL. This would allow the already strong teams (LHGCL D1's) teams to stay together with the younger players playing up and give PPL the chance to steal away the market share LHGCL currently has.

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LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion - Page 3 Empty Re: LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion

Post by tpitty 17/11/15, 09:08 am

soccer5555 wrote:As others have stated, teams could stay together if LHGCL keeps the byes with the OLDER players from the team.  Does anyone know why LHGCL has decided NOT to do this?  Do they not have a choice for some reason?  

Why leave the byes with the younger players from the team and thereby essentially f orce every team at every age group to have to rebuild?  Most girls want to stay with their current team/coach.  Shouldn't the LHGCL board be representing what the thousands of girls that play for them want?

Not that I agree or disagree, It will be what ever it will be. However, here might be a reason for you.
The MAJORITY of the kids in an age group are that age. So in the 03 age group, 60% of those girls are calendar year 03. The smaller percentage is older. Move the older/smaller percentage to the age group that they are the majority in. Move them up. Either way it is sliced, some age group of kids/parents will be looking for new teams.

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LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion - Page 3 Empty Re: LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion

Post by tpitty 17/11/15, 09:12 am

Switchfoot wrote:If I was the director of PPL and if LHGCL does in fact leave the clubs bye with the age group and make the teams blow up or qualify D3 then I would implement a complete overhaul and requlify all age groups in PPL. This would allow the already strong teams (LHGCL D1's) teams to stay together with the younger players playing up and give PPL the chance to steal away the market share LHGCL currently has.

Sounds great. Since all of the big clubs are "in" on this decision, none of them will go, you can turn PPL into the indy league. That should last a season.

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