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Post by SEAOTTER 02/01/16, 06:40 pm

4-3-3 wrote:
rzrFC wrote:You speak the truth ballhead and I have no disagreement with any of your points.  ECNL is a victim of there own success by expanding beyond their original intent.  My argument is that U.S. Club Soccer's success rate with leagues (NPL and ENCL) is light years ahead of anything USSF or USYS has done for young ladies.  As I said in my earlier posts, USSF should support and enhance what IS working...ECNL.  If they are trying to fix something that's broken, maybe they should start with the men's side.  Or, regional leagues.

Your argument that US Club Soccer's leagues are working because the WNT won the world cup is flawed. First off neither morgan brian nor press nor any of the other players named can be legitimately claimed as ecnl products. They all came up through the old system of usys and odp. Brian may have played a few games in ecnl u23 after she was already in college and a long time NT player. Go check where she actually played her club soccer.

Second off, where is the evidence ecnl is producing more talented YNTs than the old system? Several ecnl era YNT  have recently struggled in international competitions whereas the old gals basically dominated all minnows. After the u20s performance at last u20wc, it looked to me ussf started taking more ownership of their scouting and started expanding their call ups to include more non ecnl players. Ecnl still dominates rosters, but ussf realized they needed to also id fantastic players not in ecnl.

Thirdly, if you watched the wwc you saw the gap between us and the rest of the world rapidly closing. We needed an abby moment to get past nigeria and some good calls and a pk miss to put away germany. Yes the ladies destroyed japan in the final, but if you look at the entire picture of the early rounds plus the trends of our YNTs, ussf would be silly to sit on their hands and conclude no improvements are needed. The women don't have the same goals as the men. They're trying to retain their spot as the best in the world.

ECNL hooked up college coaches with aspiring players more efficiently than any prior league. The top ecnl talent is better than any other youth league. As more and more clubs that send kids to NTs get ecnl added, there is no longer any debate about those points. But the idea every ecnl team is strong top to bottom, or is on a different level than all non ecnl, is myth. Myth supported largely by the type of marketing that made you believe morgan brian was an ecnl product.

DA could be a huge win for womens soccer. Even moreso if ussf creates a sensible structure for the levels below to feed the DA with similarly trained players who have also been exposed to standards based, competitive environments. Hopefully that structure allows free movement between the levels as players or clubs progress or regress. The quality in the base and middle tiers will ultimately determine how good the top can become.

very well said..

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Post by SWGSB 52 11/02/16, 09:27 am

I'll give credit to RWD for posting this Podcast in another thread. It's about 1hr in length but offers some really good points of discussion.

http://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts/podcast-u-s-soccers-girls-development-academy-plans-and-issues-to-consider/

Interesting thoughts on how they feel that DA will and should work with ECNL. A lot of people want to point at DA as a better option but these guys discuss several issues where DA is getting it wrong. Also, it would appear that player subsidies in DA for boys in other parts of the nation are for only the low income and not all players. It sounds like girls player subsidies would be even harder without a professional team tie. Right now only the top NWSL players are paid a living wage. I guess we will wait and see.
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Post by SD69 11/02/16, 09:34 am

SWGSB 52 wrote:I'll give credit to RWD for posting this Podcast in another thread. It's about 1hr in length but offers some really good points of discussion.

http://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts/podcast-u-s-soccers-girls-development-academy-plans-and-issues-to-consider/

Interesting thoughts on how they feel that DA will and should work with ECNL. A lot of people want to point at DA as a better option but these guys discuss several issues where DA is getting it wrong. Also, it would appear that player subsidies in DA for boys in other parts of the nation are for only the low income and not all players. It sounds like girls player subsidies would be even harder without a professional team tie. Right now only the top NWSL players are paid a living wage. I guess we will wait and see.

When asked where she wants soccer to take her, my DD says she'd like to play in college. When asked about nat'l team, she said "Are you crazy! Those player all came from the Pro's, and most of them don't make anything."

Glad to see she's got reasonable expectations.
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Post by boilerjoe_96 11/02/16, 09:46 am

SD69 wrote:

When asked where she wants soccer to take her, my DD says she'd like to play in college. When asked about nat'l team, she said "Are you crazy! Those player all came from the Pro's, and most of them don't make anything."

Glad to see she's got reasonable expectations.

And if you saw a 2/3 empty stadium last night...that is a big reason. I couldn't believe such a low turnout. Sad Sad Sad
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Post by Guest 11/02/16, 11:31 am

Southside will drive out on Saturday.

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Post by RightWingDad 11/02/16, 01:04 pm

SWGSB 52 wrote:I'll give credit to RWD for posting this Podcast in another thread. It's about 1hr in length but offers some really good points of discussion.

http://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts/podcast-u-s-soccers-girls-development-academy-plans-and-issues-to-consider/

Interesting thoughts on how they feel that DA will and should work with ECNL. A lot of people want to point at DA as a better option but these guys discuss several issues where DA is getting it wrong. Also, it would appear that player subsidies in DA for boys in other parts of the nation are for only the low income and not all players. It sounds like girls player subsidies would be even harder without a professional team tie. Right now only the top NWSL players are paid a living wage. I guess we will wait and see.

It does always seem to boil down to the money. I heard a year or so ago Alex Morgan made about $70K per year for her "soccer job" but of course she has a few hundred K added on to that through endorsements and her books. I saw some players on the women's pro teams making $6-7K per year.

Soccer's a great sport and our family loves most every minute of it. However for it to be a major money maker competing with NFL/NBA/MLB so much will have to happen. There are too many headwinds for soccer to be successful on the big stage unless we have some major cultural shifts here. Until then we'll enjoy the ride where we're at.

Sorry, did not mean to end with a preposition for all you grammarians.
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Post by Lyin Ted 17/02/16, 09:11 pm

DA

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Post by go99 17/02/16, 10:37 pm

you guys are funny. Heard the same BS when DA came into the boys. As soon as the league dropped parents came running to lick the sack of the closest DA club coach. It's not about what they want from soccer, sure as hell isn't about development. It's about ego and saying my kid is in the TOP league.
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Post by Lyin Ted 17/02/16, 11:40 pm

go99 wrote:you guys are funny.  Heard the same BS when DA came into the boys.  As soon as the league dropped parents came running to lick the sack of the closest DA club coach.  It's not about what they want from soccer, sure as hell isn't about development.  It's about ego and saying my kid is in the TOP league.  

If my DD wants to play High school soccer and it makes her happy.

IT WILL HAPPEN!!!!

I am thinking that DA is not for my family and I want to see what others are thinking?

Just seeking knowledge.....................

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Post by Zizou 18/02/16, 05:56 am

I am thinking it will depend on has your DD verbally committed. if she already has an idea of where she wants to play at the next level it mite change some of your decisions.

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Post by go99 18/02/16, 08:00 am

Seems everyone said the same thing when the boys DA was coming on and then when it happened they were all rushing to the teams. Then they just complain about the unfairness of not being able to play HS. Rarely do you see someone make a choice based on their needs and live with it. Usually made based on ego and then complain about it not fitting their needs.
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Post by Guest 18/02/16, 08:06 am

go99 wrote:you guys are funny.  Heard the same BS when DA came into the boys.  As soon as the league dropped parents came running to lick the sack of the closest DA club coach.  It's not about what they want from soccer, sure as hell isn't about development.  It's about ego and saying my kid is in the TOP league.  

You're a cunning linguist, Sir.

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Post by Son_ofa_Pitch 18/02/16, 09:14 am

Interesting:

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/ecnl/u-s-soccer-ecnl-summit-fruitless-with-federation-set-to-go-it-alone-on-girls-development-academy/#.VsXZSUYa5vY.mailto
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Post by go99 18/02/16, 09:24 am

Bet you guys can't wait to find out what clubs will have girls DA so you can jump to the "right" club now lol
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Post by SWGSB 52 18/02/16, 09:31 am

My academy team already moved to 4 days a week practice and no other sports allowed outside of our Pre-DA. We are already running scrimmages with no re-entry substitution. All in the name of player development. The rest of you are going to be late to the party.
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Post by SD69 18/02/16, 09:34 am

"In a letter from ECNL leaders to the league’s 79 member clubs obtained by SoccerWire.com, details of the February 12 meeting outline a wide-ranging conversation with a recurring theme: U.S. Soccer officials believe that they can do the job of developing female players “better and faster” by going it alone, no matter how good, how big, or how established the six-year old ECNL may be."

Because the mens DA model has worked SO well for international soccer and the women have been so unsuccessful Rolling Eyes
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Post by Guest 18/02/16, 09:49 am

go99 wrote:you guys are funny.  Heard the same BS when DA came into the boys.  As soon as the league dropped parents came running to lick the sack of the closest DA club coach.  It's not about what they want from soccer, sure as hell isn't about development.  It's about ego and saying my kid is in the TOP league.  

For real though....I feel the same about most parents that declare their kid NEEDs to play up.

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Post by go99 18/02/16, 09:50 am

womans soccer has been successful because of athleticism and the fact that soccer is seen as a mens sport by most of the rest of the world so girls participation has been limited. That kind of everything is fine no need to change anything thinking worked out great for England.
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Post by Guest 18/02/16, 09:50 am

go99 wrote:you guys are funny.  Heard the same BS when DA came into the boys.  As soon as the league dropped parents came running to lick the sack of the closest DA club coach.  It's not about what they want from soccer, sure as hell isn't about development.  It's about ego and saying my kid is in the TOP league.  

For real though....I feel the same about most parents that declare their kid NEEDs to play up.

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Post by go99 18/02/16, 09:51 am

WhySeauxSerious wrote:
go99 wrote:you guys are funny.  Heard the same BS when DA came into the boys.  As soon as the league dropped parents came running to lick the sack of the closest DA club coach.  It's not about what they want from soccer, sure as hell isn't about development.  It's about ego and saying my kid is in the TOP league.  

For real though....I feel the same about most parents that declare their kid NEEDs to play up.

In most cases that is exactly correct. It's the same reason why kids HAVE to play on a top D1 team, Why they Must be in a ECNL club at 6.
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Post by sprint 18/02/16, 10:15 am

That article is very interesting. This would seem like a huge problem that is about to explode. From the gist of the article, I take it ECNL is not going to back down and will still run their league. The US Girls DA will institute the rules for the boys DA mainly:

1) no girls HS soccer for girls in the DA ( this is a big change as ECNL girls play HS)

2). No re-entry on subs

Also noted in the article US Soccer thought about starting US girls DA in 2008 but felt the only regions with National team caliber girls were SO Ca and thee greater New York area. ( seems pretty limited)

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Post by Gunners 18/02/16, 10:39 am

The most interesting part, for me, is the USSF admitting that it's had coastal bias when selecting National Team players for years...

USSF considered, but declined the idea of starting a girls DA back in 2007/08, believing national-team-caliber players existing mostly in a few “pockets,” mainly Southern California and the greater New York area, not nationally.

I say this somewhat tongue in cheek, as this has been widely known for years. It certainly should be disarming to those who constantly beat the "NTX doesn't produce National Team caliber players" drum.

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Post by FCT2016 18/02/16, 05:28 pm

Oh yeah! "I need my DD to play up so she is paying against physically quicker and stronger kids!" Don't need more touches on the ball then? Fools!

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Post by RightWingDad 18/02/16, 09:49 pm

go99 wrote:womans soccer has been successful because of athleticism and the fact that soccer is seen as a mens sport by most of the rest of the world so girls participation has been limited.  That kind of everything is fine no need to change anything thinking worked out great for England.

Exactly right Go. A few years ago my DD was at a Solar Chelsea camp and during a break I was talking to some of the young Chelsea academy coaches. They told me that girls get such a head start here in the US but that the girls did not start playing football in UK until around 14 or so.
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Post by WisdomTeeth 19/02/16, 12:44 am

4-3-3 wrote:
rzrFC wrote:You speak the truth ballhead and I have no disagreement with any of your points.  ECNL is a victim of there own success by expanding beyond their original intent.  My argument is that U.S. Club Soccer's success rate with leagues (NPL and ENCL) is light years ahead of anything USSF or USYS has done for young ladies.  As I said in my earlier posts, USSF should support and enhance what IS working...ECNL.  If they are trying to fix something that's broken, maybe they should start with the men's side.  Or, regional leagues.

Your argument that US Club Soccer's leagues are working because the WNT won the world cup is flawed. First off neither morgan brian nor press nor any of the other players named can be legitimately claimed as ecnl products. They all came up through the old system of usys and odp. Brian may have played a few games in ecnl u23 after she was already in college and a long time NT player. Go check where she actually played her club soccer.

Second off, where is the evidence ecnl is producing more talented YNTs than the old system? Several ecnl era YNT  have recently struggled in international competitions whereas the old gals basically dominated all minnows. After the u20s performance at last u20wc, it looked to me ussf started taking more ownership of their scouting and started expanding their call ups to include more non ecnl players. Ecnl still dominates rosters, but ussf realized they needed to also id fantastic players not in ecnl.

Thirdly, if you watched the wwc you saw the gap between us and the rest of the world rapidly closing. We needed an abby moment to get past nigeria and some good calls and a pk miss to put away germany. Yes the ladies destroyed japan in the final, but if you look at the entire picture of the early rounds plus the trends of our YNTs, ussf would be silly to sit on their hands and conclude no improvements are needed. The women don't have the same goals as the men. They're trying to retain their spot as the best in the world.

ECNL hooked up college coaches with aspiring players more efficiently than any prior league. The top ecnl talent is better than any other youth league. As more and more clubs that send kids to NTs get ecnl added, there is no longer any debate about those points. But the idea every ecnl team is strong top to bottom, or is on a different level than all non ecnl, is myth. Myth supported largely by the type of marketing that made you believe morgan brian was an ecnl product.

DA could be a huge win for womens soccer. Even moreso if ussf creates a sensible structure for the levels below to feed the DA with similarly trained players who have also been exposed to standards based, competitive environments. Hopefully that structure allows free movement between the levels as players or clubs progress or regress. The quality in the base and middle tiers will ultimately determine how good the top can become.

Very well said.
For me, it's quite amazing how many posters jumped to the defense of ECNL once the announcement of Girls DA implementation was made. While ECNL may be promoting players to the national stage in other states, that has not been happening to the same degree in NTX.
A quick look at current USWNT rosters from U15 through the full national team (eight squads) shows just eight NTX players. That's on a par with states like Washington and Georgia. Meanwhile California, Colorado, Florida, and New Jersey continue to dominate selection.
While our kids may sometimes win on TEAMS at the national level, they are obviously not impressing the US national staff enough as INDIVIDUALS.  
And yet these ECNL coaches here in NTX will arrogantly talk all day about the quality they are producing. Not a great deal of humility there despite the low production. Imagine if they had a corporate job like the rest of us!
Time for an upgrade. NTX players with USWNT aspirations should be welcoming USSF Girls DA with open arms.
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Post by ItsMeAgain 19/02/16, 06:33 am

FCT2016 wrote:Oh yeah! "I need my DD to play up so she is paying against physically quicker and stronger kids!"  Don't need more touches on the ball then? Fools!

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/02/as-a-womens-soccer-nation-we-have-a-skill-problem/

"All too often the tactics of our U.S. youth women’s national teams diverge into the realm of the direct, bypassing the individual skill inherent in those sides and relying to a fault on balls over the top and the speed to get under them. Some teams have made an effort to pass through the middle, and that is laudable, but too many have rested for too long on physical ability that will not always be there when you need it."
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