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Post by SoccerDad75033 06/02/16, 05:12 pm

Why would a team (currently standing near the bottom of the last PPL Division) play in a bronze division in a tournament, then bring multiple players from a sister LH D1 team out to play? The same club had other teams playing in the tournament in higher divisions. Don't give me nonsense about the "development opportunities" - we are talking the difference between LH D1 and the bottom of PPL. How do those players feel who have the stars play while they watch? How about the other teams - properly placed in a bracket to play against LH D1 players?

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Post by SickofStupidity 06/02/16, 08:34 pm

Maybe the same reason a LH team would skip Winter Cup and drive to Houston, only to play in the "silver" bracket against a PPL team a year younger and a couple of rec teams.

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Post by db10 06/02/16, 09:13 pm

I'm wondering if team in question is one who seems to have roster issues quite often. Maybe we all need to remember that the Spirit of the game should mean something as much as the outcome.

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Post by SoccerDad75033 07/02/16, 09:45 am

db10 wrote:I'm wondering if team in question is one who seems to have roster issues quite often. Maybe we all need to remember that the Spirit of the game should mean something as much as the outcome.

Yes, bringing LH D1 players doesn't sound like it is in the Spirit of the game. Fortunately, other teams are not raising the White flag of surrender. One can only hope that their next opponent Aces the challenge.

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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL 07/02/16, 03:20 pm

I always find these posts funny - spirit of the game and all that garbage - they're friggin 12 years old... yeah sure, some have had the lights come on while others are still fumbling around in the dark to find the switch. Sometimes, having these "better" players helps the developing players find that switch and change their futures by doing so. These tournaments are a perfect time for that cause where else would they get that opportunity? Can't do it during league play, my God that would be the end of all that's hallowed in youth soccer. Quit worrying about what other teams and clubs do and worry about what YOUR club and team is doing? If you feel slighted you ever think maybe you should find someplace else to take your player cause with what's about to happen to the entire youth soccer landscape is going to do nothing but make you wonder even further.
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Post by db10 07/02/16, 10:19 pm

Development. Funny. Face it, sending D1 guest players to a team playing PPL teams in a Bronze division is about one thing...Winning. But this is the same club whose parents heckle 12 year olds taking corner kicks and bad mouths the opposing team when they're in front of their sideline. So fishing for a trophy is almost expected.

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Post by Dec2020 07/02/16, 10:57 pm

They didn't even win the trophy

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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL 08/02/16, 08:40 am

db10 wrote:Development. Funny. Face it, sending D1 guest players to a team playing PPL teams in a Bronze division is about one thing...Winning. But this is the same club whose parents heckle 12 year olds taking corner kicks and bad mouths the opposing team when they're in front of their sideline. So fishing for a trophy is almost expected.

I'm going to take a stretch here and say you're talking about TX Spirit here right? So are you generalizing that the entire club allows that behaviour? Just curious cause by using that type of generalization you've just included about every team and club in NTX... So your statement holds no water here. Sounds to me like someone had their feelings hurt. I've heard these statements over and over again about almost every club - it always depends on who the losing team was. They expected to blow a team out and in the end got beat - now it's all about the players that team brought in and not about anything else. Win the game in front of you regardless of the players - that's it - win and no one cares about the rest. Argue that a club or team did something "ordinary" like add players or something and you're just bitching to justify your loss. If your players aren't that good, then they should learn from what they saw - and based on the final outcome - sounds like that team learned something and ended up winning the final anyways. So now you just became one of those bitchy parents you speak of.
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Post by Dec2020 08/02/16, 08:54 am

I guess I'm thinking of a different team.  Yes, probably more than one team falls into the "trophy hunting" category.


Last edited by Dec2020 on 08/02/16, 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : left out a word)

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Post by DDPlays4Snacks 08/02/16, 09:59 am

Could it have been that the guess (guest) players are friends with some of the players on the team they are guesting with? Tournaments offer a chance for players who grew up together to play once again with each other, even though they may have taken different roads based on skills and goals?
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Post by SoccerDad75033 08/02/16, 10:08 am

So, you are saying that it is within the spirit of fair play to take LH D1 players, and play them on a PPL D4 team in a tournament while playing in the lowest bracket? Or that there is no such thing as fair play? Just want to make sure it is clear. I'm all about playing the team that is before you, but I'm also about having some class. My daughter doesn't play for either team / club but I know kids on both. But if we are going to take the approach that there is no spirit of fair play, then why even have separate tournament divisions? Have the team ranked #102 in ntx play against the top 10 teams and let them "win the game in front of them".

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Post by Guest 08/02/16, 10:34 am

Back in the academy days, I used to complain about teams bringing in guest players to stack the deck.  Then my 10-yr old DD told me "Shut up, Dad! How am I supposed to get better if I don't play against players that are better than me?"

Haven't complained about it since.

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Post by db10 08/02/16, 10:47 am

KingBob wrote:Back in the academy days, I used to complain about teams bringing in guest players to stack the deck.  Then my 10-yr old DD told me "Shut up, Dad! How am I supposed to get better if I don't play against players that are better than me?"

Haven't complained about it since.

So again, why have brackets? Just shove all the D2 PPL with the top D1 LH teams. This way all the girls can improve as they watch Elite roll 23 goals up on them.

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Post by Read_These_Nikes 08/02/16, 11:03 am

Just cause a child is on a LH D1 team doesn't mean they actually play! There are plenty of parents who put their kids on LH D1 teams knowing full well their kid will never see much time on the field. My kid doesn't play with much confidence but hey look at all of the trophies my kid has! Another classic: we just want him/her to be able to play with friends they've played with since they were 4. Not all kids develop at the same pace. Some D1 teams out pace your kid's ability to develop they way he or she should but at least they're playing with, oops I mean watching their friends play!

At some point some of you parents have to stop doing whats best for your kids trophy case and do whats best for their development. Did I get off subject?
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Post by Lefty 08/02/16, 11:14 am

SoccerDad75033 wrote:So, you are saying that it is within the spirit of fair play to take LH D1 players, and play them on a PPL D4 team in a tournament while playing in the lowest bracket?  Or that there is no such thing as fair play?  Just want to make sure it is clear.  I'm all about playing the team that is before you, but I'm also about having some class.  My daughter doesn't play for either team / club but I know kids on both.  But if we are going to take the approach that there is no spirit of fair play, then why even have separate tournament divisions?  Have the team ranked #102 in ntx play against the top 10 teams and let them "win the game in front of them".

So who would you propose be the arbiter of 'Fair Play'?

I've found that for most people 'Fair Anything' is in the eyes of the beholder and usually situational.

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Post by db10 08/02/16, 11:24 am

Read_These_Nikes wrote:Just cause a child is on a LH D1 team doesn't mean they actually play! There are plenty of parents who put their kids on LH D1 teams knowing full well their kid will never see much time on the field. My kid doesn't play with much confidence but hey look at all of the trophies my kid has! Another classic: we just want him/her to be able to play with friends they've played with since they were 4. Not all kids develop at the same pace. Some D1 teams out pace your kid's ability to develop they way he or she should but at least they're playing with, oops I mean watching their friends play!

At some point some of you parents have to stop doing whats best for your kids trophy case and do whats best for their development. Did I get off subject?

So you really think the D1 players parents asked for their DD to play on a team in the bronze bracket of a tournament/ age group with no D1 clubs participating? And did so with the knowledge that the clubs LH D3 team was in the gold bracket? Sorry I'm not convinced.

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Post by db10 08/02/16, 11:31 am

HeadHaunter wrote:
db10 wrote:Development. Funny. Face it, sending D1 guest players to a team playing PPL teams in a Bronze division is about one thing...Winning. But this is the same club whose parents heckle 12 year olds taking corner kicks and bad mouths the opposing team when they're in front of their sideline. So fishing for a trophy is almost expected.

I'm going to take a stretch here and say you're talking about TX Spirit here right?  So are you generalizing that the entire club allows that behaviour?  Just curious cause by using that type of generalization you've just included about every team and club in NTX...  So your statement holds no water here.  Sounds to me like someone had their feelings hurt.  I've heard these statements over and over again about almost every club - it always depends on who the losing team was.  They expected to blow a team out and in the end got beat - now it's all about the players that team brought in and not about anything else.  Win the game in front of you regardless of the players - that's it - win and no one cares about the rest.  Argue that a club or team did something "ordinary" like add players or something and you're just bitching to justify your loss.  If your players aren't that good, then they should learn from what they saw - and based on the final outcome - sounds like that team learned something and ended up winning the final anyways.  So now you just became one of those bitchy parents you speak of.

A. Everybody does it isn't an excuse nor very accurate.
B. My daughter wasn't involved in the Bronze bracket at all
C. My daughter and her teammates have run into this club's teams in the past and has basically said they're the only club that consistently have parents that specifically say stuff to the opposing GIRLS during the game.

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Post by Guest 08/02/16, 11:34 am

db10 wrote:
KingBob wrote:Back in the academy days, I used to complain about teams bringing in guest players to stack the deck.  Then my 10-yr old DD told me "Shut up, Dad! How am I supposed to get better if I don't play against players that are better than me?"

Haven't complained about it since.

So again, why have brackets? Just shove all the D2 PPL with the top D1 LH teams. This way all the girls can improve as they watch Elite roll 23 goals up on them.

Actually, both my DD and I would be a lot more upset if she was on the team that scored 23, than if she was on the team that gave up 23.

I'd be absolutely pi$$ed at the coach, and/or, club, an/or TD for putting her team in a situation that was of zero value like that. Doubly so if I drove 4 hours and spent money on hotel for something like that. They would certainly hear my displeasure in that case.

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Post by db10 08/02/16, 11:40 am

KingBob wrote:
db10 wrote:
KingBob wrote:Back in the academy days, I used to complain about teams bringing in guest players to stack the deck.  Then my 10-yr old DD told me "Shut up, Dad! How am I supposed to get better if I don't play against players that are better than me?"

Haven't complained about it since.

So again, why have brackets? Just shove all the D2 PPL with the top D1 LH teams. This way all the girls can improve as they watch Elite roll 23 goals up on them.

Actually, both my DD and I would be a lot more upset if she was on the team that scored 23, than if she was on the team that gave up 23.

I'd be absolutely pi$$ed at the coach, and/or, club, an/or TD for putting her team in a situation that was of zero value like that.  Doubly so if I drove 4 hours and spent money on hotel for something like that.  They would certainly hear my displeasure in that case.

Thus the reason behind brackets and divisions...to keep a level playing field. We have all have a guest player or two but they're usually a D1 on a D2 or similar. Dropping D1's into that far of a lower bracket is something totally different. Hence the OP.

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Post by SD69 08/02/16, 11:49 am

Unless I'm looking at the wrong division, it looked to me it was pretty even as far as play goes. The team they beat the most during bracket play was the team that beat them in the finals. Is every one here wishing they would've not had guest players that could/would have made them much less competitive in the already lowest division in their age group?
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Post by Guest 08/02/16, 11:56 am

db10 wrote:
KingBob wrote:
db10 wrote:
KingBob wrote:Back in the academy days, I used to complain about teams bringing in guest players to stack the deck.  Then my 10-yr old DD told me "Shut up, Dad! How am I supposed to get better if I don't play against players that are better than me?"

Haven't complained about it since.

So again, why have brackets? Just shove all the D2 PPL with the top D1 LH teams. This way all the girls can improve as they watch Elite roll 23 goals up on them.

Actually, both my DD and I would be a lot more upset if she was on the team that scored 23, than if she was on the team that gave up 23.

I'd be absolutely pi$$ed at the coach, and/or, club, an/or TD for putting her team in a situation that was of zero value like that.  Doubly so if I drove 4 hours and spent money on hotel for something like that.  They would certainly hear my displeasure in that case.

Thus the reason behind brackets and divisions...to keep a level playing field. We have all have a guest player or two but they're usually a D1 on a D2 or similar. Dropping D1's into that far of a lower bracket is something totally different. Hence the OP.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in the case of the OP's complaint, the team in question went 2-2-1 with 5 GF and 4 GA for the weekend. That doesn't sound to me like the team was playing in an inappropriate bracket. That sounds like the OP being butt hurt that his DD's team lost a game they thought was going to be an easy win, and therefore didn't get plastic trophy or medal from the bronze division of a meaningless, random, tournament.

A tiny difference betwixt that and a team being misbracketed and putting up 23 in a game, dontcha think?

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Post by progressiveparent 08/02/16, 12:09 pm

Read_These_Nikes wrote: There are plenty of parents who put their kids on LH D1 teams
Sounds easy cheesy scratch

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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL 08/02/16, 12:11 pm

KingBob wrote:
db10 wrote:
KingBob wrote:
db10 wrote:
KingBob wrote:Back in the academy days, I used to complain about teams bringing in guest players to stack the deck.  Then my 10-yr old DD told me "Shut up, Dad! How am I supposed to get better if I don't play against players that are better than me?"

Haven't complained about it since.

So again, why have brackets? Just shove all the D2 PPL with the top D1 LH teams. This way all the girls can improve as they watch Elite roll 23 goals up on them.

Actually, both my DD and I would be a lot more upset if she was on the team that scored 23, than if she was on the team that gave up 23.

I'd be absolutely pi$$ed at the coach, and/or, club, an/or TD for putting her team in a situation that was of zero value like that.  Doubly so if I drove 4 hours and spent money on hotel for something like that.  They would certainly hear my displeasure in that case.

Thus the reason behind brackets and divisions...to keep a level playing field. We have all have a guest player or two but they're usually a D1 on a D2 or similar. Dropping D1's into that far of a lower bracket is something totally different. Hence the OP.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in the case of the OP's complaint, the team in question went 2-2-1 with 5 GF and 4 GA for the weekend.  That doesn't sound to me like the team was playing in an inappropriate bracket.  That sounds like the OP being butt hurt that his DD's team lost a game they thought was going to be an easy win, and therefore didn't get plastic trophy or medal from the bronze division of a meaningless, random, tournament.

A tiny difference betwixt that and a team being misbracketed and putting up 23 in a game, dontcha think?

Well, db10 sounds like they have a direct issue with a certain club or coach directly, not necessarily the fact that it made the bracket a "touch" more competitive.
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Post by DT03GWhiteNPL 08/02/16, 12:21 pm

db10 wrote:
HeadHaunter wrote:
db10 wrote:Development. Funny. Face it, sending D1 guest players to a team playing PPL teams in a Bronze division is about one thing...Winning. But this is the same club whose parents heckle 12 year olds taking corner kicks and bad mouths the opposing team when they're in front of their sideline. So fishing for a trophy is almost expected.

I'm going to take a stretch here and say you're talking about TX Spirit here right?  So are you generalizing that the entire club allows that behaviour?  Just curious cause by using that type of generalization you've just included about every team and club in NTX...  So your statement holds no water here.  Sounds to me like someone had their feelings hurt.  I've heard these statements over and over again about almost every club - it always depends on who the losing team was.  They expected to blow a team out and in the end got beat - now it's all about the players that team brought in and not about anything else.  Win the game in front of you regardless of the players - that's it - win and no one cares about the rest.  Argue that a club or team did something "ordinary" like add players or something and you're just bitching to justify your loss.  If your players aren't that good, then they should learn from what they saw - and based on the final outcome - sounds like that team learned something and ended up winning the final anyways.  So now you just became one of those bitchy parents you speak of.

A. Everybody does it isn't an excuse nor very accurate.
B. My daughter wasn't involved in the Bronze bracket at all
C. My daughter and her teammates have run into this club's teams in the past and has basically said they're the only club that consistently have parents that specifically say stuff to the opposing GIRLS during the game.

A. it's completely accurate - ask around - it's just that some folks are accepting of the team growth opportunities while others like to whine about a closer game than expected.
B. Then what are you bitching about?
C. You're listening to kids that, in school, talk like kids? Come on man! You can do better than that... I hear that from my kiddo for specific teams as well and the team you speak of wasn't on that list - at least not yet - and I tell her to suck it up cause it won't get any easier.

You have an issue that seems very specific - my issue is that some folks feel entitled that their little Suzie should win every game she plays. You want that? Go back to playing rec so you can receive that coveted participation medal. A team beefing up just a tiny bit to compete shouldn't surprise anyone and shouldn't hurt anyone especially if you come in thinking you're going to get an easy win - that's the coaches fault for not setting the winning expectation. Cause the same team that lost then ended up winning so to me it caused the team that originally lost, to step up and play better soccer? Isn't that the name of the game when developing players?
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Post by SoccerDad75033 08/02/16, 12:49 pm

You will note my initial post was prior to any Sunday games.

So, about all we have established is -

Lefty won't state whether he thinks LH D1 players guesting on a PPL D4 team in the lowest bracket is "fair play".

Headhaunter thinks the results excuse the actions, which he doesn't have a problem with.

King Bob doesn't think driving 4 hours and staying in a hotel to LOSE by 23 to stacked teams would be a problem. He also apparently has a reading disability or a brain block that prevented him from processing the statement where I stated my kid wasn't on either team.

Sd69 thinks the ends justify the means.

Db is ticked at mouthy classless parents who heckle 12 year old girls during a game.

And sick thinks a LH team traveling to Houston to play rec teams is dodging competition, when it appears they found more competition than they could handle. Maybe he should start a post on the closing gap between STX rec soccer and NTX LH.

I had no kid in the hunt and only started the post to raise an issue I saw with "fair play" and perceived trophy hunting. Hopefully, the teams in question got everything out of their tournament experiences that they were looking for.

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