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Post by kick_tha_ball 13/07/16, 03:07 pm

Zizou wrote:
kick_tha_ball wrote:
Zizou wrote:Playing young athletes year round with no time off is not development. I would not put winning and QT's in the top three of development. With age pure, tryouts and QT dates should change. LHGCL is not the gold standard anymore. Why do we punish our players in the heat for a crappy league?

Yet you pay for your DD to play there. You don't have to ya know. Apparently you know of better options so.....

Then go play rec.

Lol, LHGCL is rec.

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Post by CBTeamworks 13/07/16, 04:40 pm

Zizou wrote:
kick_tha_ball wrote:
Zizou wrote:Playing young athletes year round with no time off is not development. I would not put winning and QT's in the top three of development. With age pure, tryouts and QT dates should change. LHGCL is not the gold standard anymore. Why do we punish our players in the heat for a crappy league?

Then go play rec.

Lol, LHGCL is rec.

No, it's not but that's funny since your point is that the new leagues will take talent out of LH which will Dribble a backfilling of talent.

I think the whole NTX soccer landscape could be improved if there was one league encompassing rec, PPIL/APIL and LH. LH forces scarcity by only having 30 or so teams. Haves and have nots. Parents want LH or bust. Players then want LH or bust. We end up with players who don't want to play in PPIL due to lack of status. Player development suffers due to this. Players/parents would rather their dd play in LH where they have less PT, get pigeonholed into one position that's good for the team rather than good for the development of the player. Less experimentation with positions that could fit the player better and that she could develop into because her LH team needs her to play defender to win.
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Post by Guest 13/07/16, 04:55 pm

Parents dont pigeon hole players into positions to win games. Coaches make these choices. Putting all the coaches into one league won't stop those willing to sacrifice everything for the sake of team wins from making those same choices. Some coaches will tell you straight up that they base decisions on whats best for the team and not individual players. Others just tell parents what they want to hear until they sign, then do what they planned to do anyway. Parents need better tools to be educated on how choices their coaches make will likely affect their child's long-term development.

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Post by CBTeamworks 13/07/16, 05:18 pm

4-3-3 I think it'll take a few generations to educate the parents since most grew up playing basketball, football and baseball rather than soccer.

Even when parents are given the information they make choices that favor league status over development.
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Post by kick_tha_ball 13/07/16, 05:34 pm

It sounds like you guys have this all figured out so why not put together this NTX Soccer for Dummies so us parents will know what to look for. You can park in the lot at UTD on the first day of the season and sell it out of your trunk for $49.95.
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Post by dadof3 13/07/16, 05:36 pm

Only NTX soccer parents will pay the $49.95 when the forum is free
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Post by kick_tha_ball 13/07/16, 05:40 pm

dadof3 wrote:Only NTX soccer parents will pay the $49.95 when the forum is free

Well everybody is always accusing the leagues, clubs and coaches of doing this only for the money, might as well get your piece of the pie too.
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Post by soccerjack 13/07/16, 05:52 pm

CBTeamworks wrote:4-3-3 I think it'll take a few generations to educate the parents since most grew up playing basketball, football and baseball rather than soccer.

Even when parents are given the information they make choices that favor league status over development.

No offense... But a lot of coaches ....clubs also....hide behind the ...it's all about development stuff and charge the same amount without development or results. I really don't think a coach without a track record should be compensated for a .....say division 4 ppl team, as a coach that is consistently in lh and has earnd a good reputation from results. This imo is a bigger problem. This is where the money grab and parent ignorance starts.
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Post by Guest 13/07/16, 05:57 pm

...and all this time, I thought parent ignorance started with me... confused

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Post by soccerjack 13/07/16, 07:30 pm

bwgophers wrote:...and all this time, I thought parent ignorance started with me... confused

Believe me we helped..... trying to be loyal and keep the team together..:.mostly being shamed by a coach more concerned about keeping the money Rollin than development.
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Post by CBTeamworks 13/07/16, 10:36 pm

soccerjack wrote:
CBTeamworks wrote:4-3-3 I think it'll take a few generations to educate the parents since most grew up playing basketball, football and baseball rather than soccer.

Even when parents are given the information they make choices that favor league status over development.

No offense... But a lot of coaches ....clubs also....hide behind the ...it's all about development stuff and charge the same amount without development or results. I really don't think a coach without a track record should be compensated for a .....say division 4 ppl team, as a coach that is consistently in lh and has earnd a good reputation from results. This imo is a bigger problem.  This is where the money grab and parent ignorance starts.

Supply and demand.
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Post by Zizou 14/07/16, 06:13 am

Regulation and control

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Post by KeeperCommander 14/07/16, 06:29 am

Zizou wrote:Regulation and control
How often does your DD train?

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Post by Zizou 14/07/16, 07:53 am

Her rec team trains three times a week.

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Post by B_Town 14/07/16, 08:28 am

I personally think of this time as "pre-season" and like any other sport, pre-season is the time for getting back into playing shape (running, weights, skills, etc). I realize it's incredibly hot outside so you have to be smart about when & how long they train (plus LOTS of water) but they also need to build up a tolerance for the heat as well since given the region we live in, it can remain hot well into the fall season.

Now, having said all of that, as with any training program, rest is a very important aspect. Physical rest, mental rest and let's face it, this is kids soccer. They need to have time to be a kid and do kid things (hang out with friends, go to the mall, play PokeMon Go, just have fun, whatever).

Good luck to all of your DDs this season.

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Post by TatonkaBurger 14/07/16, 09:05 am

soccerjack wrote:
bwgophers wrote:...and all this time, I thought parent ignorance started with me... confused

Believe me we helped..... trying to be loyal and keep the team together..:.mostly being shamed by a coach more concerned about keeping the money Rollin than development.

The list is long (and distinguished) of those of us who have been suckered by a coach who claimed development but simply saw our DDs as little dollar signs running around.
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Post by newbiefornow 14/07/16, 01:49 pm

My very Newbie opinion based on one kid and still on the journey.

In order to develop a Soccer Athlete to their full potential at the top of the sport you would need to:

1. Find  and stick with a club and a coach that resonates with your daughter’s style and temperament enough for them to look forward to practice three times a week and to playing

2. Find a team that is competitive and has a style that fits your daughters play and position well enough for them to be effective and have opportunities to engage and to enjoy their game time

3. Practice and play Futsal sufficiently competitively and often enough to learn close ball control and speed of reaction in tight environments

4. Have individual skills training with a coach that is empathetic and can develop specific skills for your daughter as well as their mental development in attitude and acuity.

5. Regular Speed Agility and Quickness (SAQ) training that is aligned with Soccer training but in addition to it so that they develop specific athletic technique and strength

6. Camps that allow your daughter to work with other players outside the club and experience other coaching styles that give her additional insight into her game and the game in general

7. Opportunities to watch and engage with professional games by teams and with players your daughter identifies with and wishes to emulate

That’s a lot to ask and it’s expensive. There is so much to get right that an outcome from just a coach and a team is probably going to be difficult. You kind of have to calibrate your expectations around your investment and it’s certainly not for everyone. In my opinion the DA is saying no to High school sports because if you’re doing everything they expect then you’re just risking injury by trying to do more.  There’s the “small” matter of academics and balance in all of that. Taking a couple of weeks off makes sense and coaches want time off. They deserve it and so does your DD.  The money you pay, pays for a coaches time, tournament fees and club infrastructure. It's an important foundation but not the only factor for "success" depending on how you measure it. Another way to do that is, does your daughter love the game, is she fit and will she want to play it in College and stop there. That's cheaper and probably better...

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Post by 5050Ball 14/07/16, 01:56 pm

Is there a boss out there paying you while you write this stuff?
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Post by SantaFe 14/07/16, 02:23 pm

Boss? Thats Ch 4 of the $49.95 book!

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Post by Guest 14/07/16, 04:34 pm

I love the list! Hard to execute due to time and money constraints though. I think you can copy the drills that the coaches do and save some time and money. Also, I think there's value in the player doing drills on her own without a coach.

newbiefornow wrote:My very Newbie opinion based on one kid and still on the journey.

In order to develop a Soccer Athlete to their full potential at the top of the sport you would need to:

1. Find  and stick with a club and a coach that resonates with your daughter’s style and temperament enough for them to look forward to practice three times a week and to playing

2. Find a team that is competitive and has a style that fits your daughters play and position well enough for them to be effective and have opportunities to engage and to enjoy their game time

3. Practice and play Futsal sufficiently competitively and often enough to learn close ball control and speed of reaction in tight environments

4. Have individual skills training with a coach that is empathetic and can develop specific skills for your daughter as well as their mental development in attitude and acuity.

5. Regular Speed Agility and Quickness (SAQ) training that is aligned with Soccer training but in addition to it so that they develop specific athletic technique and strength

6. Camps that allow your daughter to work with other players outside the club and experience other coaching styles that give her additional insight into her game and the game in general

7. Opportunities to watch and engage with professional games by teams and with players your daughter identifies with and wishes to emulate

That’s a lot to ask and it’s expensive. There is so much to get right that an outcome from just a coach and a team is probably going to be difficult. You kind of have to calibrate your expectations around your investment and it’s certainly not for everyone. In my opinion the DA is saying no to High school sports because if you’re doing everything they expect then you’re just risking injury by trying to do more.  There’s the “small” matter of academics and balance in all of that. Taking a couple of weeks off makes sense and coaches want time off. They deserve it and so does your DD.  The money you pay, pays for a coaches time, tournament fees and club infrastructure. It's an important foundation but not the only factor for "success" depending on how you measure it. Another way to do that is, does your daughter love the game, is she fit and will she want to play it in College and stop there. That's cheaper and probably better...

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Post by soccerdivahmom22 14/07/16, 04:37 pm

newbiefornow wrote:My very Newbie opinion based on one kid and still on the journey.

In order to develop a Soccer Athlete to their full potential at the top of the sport you would need to:

1. Find  and stick with a club and a coach that resonates with your daughter’s style and temperament enough for them to look forward to practice three times a week and to playing

2. Find a team that is competitive and has a style that fits your daughters play and position well enough for them to be effective and have opportunities to engage and to enjoy their game time

3. Practice and play Futsal sufficiently competitively and often enough to learn close ball control and speed of reaction in tight environments

4. Have individual skills training with a coach that is empathetic and can develop specific skills for your daughter as well as their mental development in attitude and acuity.

5. Regular Speed Agility and Quickness (SAQ) training that is aligned with Soccer training but in addition to it so that they develop specific athletic technique and strength

6. Camps that allow your daughter to work with other players outside the club and experience other coaching styles that give her additional insight into her game and the game in general

7. Opportunities to watch and engage with professional games by teams and with players your daughter identifies with and wishes to emulate

That’s a lot to ask and it’s expensive. There is so much to get right that an outcome from just a coach and a team is probably going to be difficult. You kind of have to calibrate your expectations around your investment and it’s certainly not for everyone. In my opinion the DA is saying no to High school sports because if you’re doing everything they expect then you’re just risking injury by trying to do more.  There’s the “small” matter of academics and balance in all of that. Taking a couple of weeks off makes sense and coaches want time off. They deserve it and so does your DD.  The money you pay, pays for a coaches time, tournament fees and club infrastructure. It's an important foundation but not the only factor for "success" depending on how you measure it. Another way to do that is, does your daughter love the game, is she fit and will she want to play it in College and stop there. That's cheaper and probably better...

Well Said!!!!!! cheers

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Post by Teufel Hunden 14/07/16, 05:58 pm

The list is fantastic!! I will try to not deviating too much from the main topic (Let players rest!!); I think that the list brings up to light in a general context what is needed to really become, in this case a soccer athlete. As it is stated in this thread and others, it is not for everyone, hence the existence of many levels of play from REC to ECNL and soon DA. The discipline and commitment requirements in many cases are not well understood by players and families and commitments rise as the competition rises.

We can always discuss which coaches develop and which don't, and what coach is successful by recruiting the right players and cutting less performing players. However, like most things in life, you need to do your part and not solely rely on your coach. The belief that you will become a standout player in this era with only practicing 2 or 3 times a week are very slim if the goal is to participate at the highest level of play possible. There is a point where it is no longer to "play", it is to "compete". In order to compete, the player needs to dedicate more time on getting ready to "compete" at every drill of every practice. How do you do that? In a general sense, follow the list.

As I mentioned earlier, this list has the potential to branch out into many other subjects such as time, money, whether it is worth it, overwork, wanting to play multiple sports, etc. And these may be discussed, but that it is why it is not for everyone. This not only applies to soccer, it applies to all other sports at the higher levels.

The supporting activities that the list reflects such as futsal (and other forms of soccer training), performance based training (speed and agility. plyometrics and yoga training to name a few) are regular scheduled activities on top of the club soccer training sessions. It is a hard pill to swallow but it is not a secret. It is not hard to find out who is doing what to improve. Just visit some of the establishments that offer performance based training and other places that offer private  / group soccer clinics and you will find many players mostly from the top teams / clubs getting additional training. If you talk to any of them, you will also find out that they have been doing extra supporting work for several years (of course depending on the age of the player) which will explain why these players have improved and keep improving their play.

So as far as taking time off, it is imperative that time is programed for your soccer athlete. Every player has different needs and objectives therefore it is done on an individual basis.

The most important is whether your soccer player / athlete wants the commitment or not. If the goal is to play at the highest possible level, the player needs to commit to work beyond what it is required to excel, but I am sure you already know that because it is applicable to most things in life.
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Post by soccerjack 14/07/16, 06:25 pm

Teufel Hunden wrote:The list is fantastic!! I will try to not deviating too much from the main topic (Let players rest!!); I think that the list brings up to light in a general context what is needed to really become, in this case a soccer athlete. As it is stated in this thread and others, it is not for everyone, hence the existence of many levels of play from REC to ECNL and soon DA. The discipline and commitment requirements in many cases are not well understood by players and families and commitments rise as the competition rises.

We can always discuss which coaches develop and which don't, and what coach is successful by recruiting the right players and cutting less performing players. However, like most things in life, you need to do your part and not solely rely on your coach. The belief that you will become a standout player in this era with only practicing 2 or 3 times a week are very slim if the goal is to participate at the highest level of play possible. There is a point where it is no longer to "play", it is to "compete". In order to compete, the player needs to dedicate more time on getting ready to "compete" at every drill of every practice. How do you do that? In a general sense, follow the list.

As I mentioned earlier, this list has the potential to branch out into many other subjects such as time, money, whether it is worth it, overwork, wanting to play multiple sports, etc. And these may be discussed, but that it is why it is not for everyone. This not only applies to soccer, it applies to all other sports at the higher levels.

The supporting activities that the list reflects such as futsal (and other forms of soccer training), performance based training (speed and agility. plyometrics and yoga training to name a few) are regular scheduled activities on top of the club soccer training sessions. It is a hard pill to swallow but it is not a secret. It is not hard to find out who is doing what to improve. Just visit some of the establishments that offer performance based training and other places that offer private  / group soccer clinics and you will find many players mostly from the top teams / clubs getting additional training. If you talk to any of them, you will also find out that they have been doing extra supporting work for several years (of course depending on the age of the player) which will explain why these players have improved and keep improving their play.

So as far as taking time off, it is imperative that time is programed for your soccer athlete. Every player has different needs and objectives therefore it is done on an individual basis.

The most important is whether your soccer player / athlete wants the commitment or not. If the goal is to play at the highest possible level, the player needs to commit to work beyond what it is required to excel, but I am sure you already know that because it is applicable to most things in life.

Can someone send the cliffs notes on this?
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Post by Guest 14/07/16, 07:53 pm

soccerjack wrote:
Teufel Hunden wrote:The list is fantastic!! I will try to not deviating too much from the main topic (Let players rest!!); I think that the list brings up to light in a general context what is needed to really become, in this case a soccer athlete. As it is stated in this thread and others, it is not for everyone, hence the existence of many levels of play from REC to ECNL and soon DA. The discipline and commitment requirements in many cases are not well understood by players and families and commitments rise as the competition rises.

We can always discuss which coaches develop and which don't, and what coach is successful by recruiting the right players and cutting less performing players. However, like most things in life, you need to do your part and not solely rely on your coach. The belief that you will become a standout player in this era with only practicing 2 or 3 times a week are very slim if the goal is to participate at the highest level of play possible. There is a point where it is no longer to "play", it is to "compete". In order to compete, the player needs to dedicate more time on getting ready to "compete" at every drill of every practice. How do you do that? In a general sense, follow the list.

As I mentioned earlier, this list has the potential to branch out into many other subjects such as time, money, whether it is worth it, overwork, wanting to play multiple sports, etc. And these may be discussed, but that it is why it is not for everyone. This not only applies to soccer, it applies to all other sports at the higher levels.

The supporting activities that the list reflects such as futsal (and other forms of soccer training), performance based training (speed and agility. plyometrics and yoga training to name a few) are regular scheduled activities on top of the club soccer training sessions. It is a hard pill to swallow but it is not a secret. It is not hard to find out who is doing what to improve. Just visit some of the establishments that offer performance based training and other places that offer private  / group soccer clinics and you will find many players mostly from the top teams / clubs getting additional training. If you talk to any of them, you will also find out that they have been doing extra supporting work for several years (of course depending on the age of the player) which will explain why these players have improved and keep improving their play.

So as far as taking time off, it is imperative that time is programed for your soccer athlete. Every player has different needs and objectives therefore it is done on an individual basis.

The most important is whether your soccer player / athlete wants the commitment or not. If the goal is to play at the highest possible level, the player needs to commit to work beyond what it is required to excel, but I am sure you already know that because it is applicable to most things in life.

Can someone send the cliffs notes on this?

Sure:

"In order to develop a Soccer Athlete to their fullest potential, you have to start with a superior ATHLETE. Otherwise, you can do everything on the list and it still won't get her past making her HS team."

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Post by jogobonito06 14/07/16, 07:58 pm

bwgophers wrote:

Can someone send the cliffs notes on this?[/quote]

Sure:

"In order to develop a Soccer Athlete to their fullest potential, you have to start with a superior ATHLETE.  Otherwise, you can do everything on the list and it still won't get her past making her HS team."[/quote]

Shhhhhh!!! An entire industry will come crashing down if that secret gets out.
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Post by soccerjack 14/07/16, 08:38 pm

jogobonito06 wrote:

Can someone send the cliffs notes on this?

Sure:

"In order to develop a Soccer Athlete to their fullest potential, you have to start with a superior ATHLETE.  Otherwise, you can do everything on the list and it still won't get her past making her HS team."[/quote]

Shhhhhh!!!  An entire industry will come crashing down if that secret gets out.[/quote]
M

Sooo taking your slow kid to speed and agility training won't make her faster and more agile? This is a bunch of bs....If I spend $10k a year, my kid should be a lock on the uswnt. I'd of been a professional athlete had my parents spent the money.
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