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Post by Soccersheep 19/09/16, 11:24 am

This kick ball style of play is teaching players how to trap, volley and head the ball in air.  That is development.  Coaches teaching them the right way may never be able to build these high flying players.  Happy Monday.

05girls wrote:Exactly, you just said it.  Appease the best player so they will stay and be a cornerstone while all the players in the middle watching the ball fly over their head never touch the ball and never develop.  Who cares about them anyway?  You are exactly correct.  

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Post by HomeStretch 19/09/16, 11:41 am

Coaches teach what they know. Score being kept has little to do with what they teach. Kickball coaches will still teach kickball, posession coaches will teach posession. It explains why some coaches have all their teams playing attractive soccer, even when results matter, and others play an unwatchable style, even when they don't.

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Post by KeeperCommander 19/09/16, 12:06 pm

05girls wrote:Exactly, you just said it. Appease the best player so they will stay and be a cornerstone while all the players in the middle watching the ball fly over their head never touch the ball and never develop. Who cares about them anyway? You are exactly correct.
Coaches know what they have to work with and what they are getting into. They may say development is the goal but at the end of the day it just isn't going to work for some. Why? Because DD did not have the training at a younger age to make that happen. If team can not possess the ball then they have to kick and launch it. You can call it appeasing the best player or whatever. Those teams will be left behind those that can control and possess.

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Post by jogobonito06 19/09/16, 12:08 pm

HomeStretch wrote:Coaches teach what they know. Score being kept has little to do with what they teach. Kickball coaches will still teach kickball, posession coaches will teach posession. It explains why some coaches have all their teams playing attractive soccer, even when results matter, and others play an unwatchable style, even when they don't.

Yes. No way some of these long-timers will be able to switch gears - or even want to. The end game for the great majority of kids is NCAA. Go watch some of those, especially in the Big Conferences. With few exceptions, it's a smash-and-grab, knock-it-forward to the speedster up top game. The ball is in the air an extraordinary amount of time. Talk about unwatchable.

Want to play center-half, you better be 5'10". Want to play forward, you better be able to outrun everyone.

So like it or not, from strictly a results perspective, these dump and chase coaches are actually succeeding rather well at their job. They're putting a ton of kids into University every year.

I think we're starting on the right path, but it will be a long time before we see real change. And certainly not until the ugly "dominating" teams we currently have at U11-U13 stop being so revered by parents.



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Post by Soccerates01 19/09/16, 12:27 pm

This is for kickball and possession type soccer coaches , U12 and up still play 11v11. They still train the same number of hours and go through the same drills as last year.  
Has anyone ever thought of bringing in 2 players from a few 05 /04 teams from LH and interview them if they like 7v7, 5v5 or 11v11 better.  Wait a minute , the current coaches have too many commitments and can't do 9v9s for u12s.   I still don't see how a new league is any different for development.  
Once you are behind technically, you can't fix it u14 and up , words of Arsene Wenger.    
I get the advantages of no scores kept , no pressure of relegation,  players playing multiple positions , developing players getting more play time than advanced players but nothing will ever change here in NTX soccer. I have seen it for the last decade.  I have just wasted my time posting and editing.


HomeStretch wrote:Coaches teach what they know. Score being kept has little to do with what they teach. Kickball coaches will still teach kickball, posession coaches will teach posession. It explains why some coaches have all their teams playing attractive soccer, even when results matter, and others play an unwatchable style, even when they don't.

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Post by tpitty 19/09/16, 12:44 pm

I get the advantages of no scores kept , no pressure of relegation, players playing multiple positions , developing players getting more play time than advanced players, but nothing will ever change here in NTX soccer. I have seen it for the last decade. I have just wasted my time posting and editing.

You just named changes. It is a beginning of change. Girls DA is coming, the landscape is changing. Not overnight, but it is much different than a decade ago.

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Post by TatonkaBurger 19/09/16, 01:15 pm

ColtMcVince wrote:Pulp tied parsons 0-0
FCD blue tied sting hig 0-0
FCD red tied Colvin 2-2

Not sure the result of the other game.

In today's environment posting scores takes courage.  My hat is off for you Colt.  Salud!
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Post by Lakedad 19/09/16, 08:10 pm

Bummed that they would use ECNL subbing rules where your out for the remainder of the half. Maybe you work around that, but it doesn't seem to foster a development atmosphere. The refs seemed to be better, wish there were enough to cover games.

Just my 2 cents, but scores should be taken with a grain of salt. Hopefully, coaches are allowing the players to work on things that would normally frown upon since these don't really matter. I'd rather have a player lose a ball attempting a skill and trying something new then to mindlessly bang it out of the defensive third.
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Post by Lyin Ted 19/09/16, 09:49 pm

It matters how you look at it. I personally like them to get to the real rules of soccer ASAP. I think even playing time can happen with ECNL rules without any issues.

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Post by ForReal 19/09/16, 10:03 pm

Lyin Ted wrote:It matters how you look at it. I personally like them to get to the real rules of soccer ASAP. I think even playing time can happen with ECNL rules without any issues.

I don't think it's an issue of even playing time, which I would argue is not truly possible with a 16-18 girl roster. But why the rush to get "to the real rules" with 11-year olds?  They don't even follow these rules in college, which is the highest most any of these girls will ever play.  The "real rules" leave a bunch of girls (including those that do the most running) playing far too long without a real break. Not as good for development in my humble opinion.


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Post by KeeperCommander 19/09/16, 10:08 pm

ForReal wrote:
Lyin Ted wrote:It matters how you look at it. I personally like them to get to the real rules of soccer ASAP. I think even playing time can happen with ECNL rules without any issues.

I don't think it's an issue of even playing time, which I would argue is not truly possible with a 16-18 girl roster. But why the rush to get "to the real rules" with 11-year olds?  They don't even follow these rules in college, which is the highest most any of these girls will ever play.  The "real rules" leave a bunch of girls (including those that do the most running) playing far too long without a real break. Not as good for development in my humble opinion.

To get to the real rules?!?! Lets limit the subs to 3 per game then with a 20 person roster. See how little Suzy does with development then.

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Post by HomeStretch 19/09/16, 10:25 pm

The sub rules are good for the kids in the long run. Many benefits..coach cant yank a kid for every little mistake trying to joystick the players....kids have to learn to think because they can't fly around hair on fire the whole game...coach cant stack 20+ players on a roster and hope to keep the back third happy...only thing bad about the sub rules is college soccer doesnt use them. Mandate 15 player max rosters to go with the sub rules and maybe we can start turning out better quality players .

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Post by ForReal 19/09/16, 10:40 pm

HomeStretch wrote:The sub rules are good for the kids in the long run. Many benefits..coach cant yank a kid for every little mistake trying to joystick the players....kids have to learn to think because they can't fly around hair on fire the whole game...coach cant stack 20+ players on a roster and hope to keep the back third happy...only thing bad about the sub rules is college soccer doesnt use them. Mandate 15 player max rosters to go with the sub rules and maybe we can start turning out better quality players .

So 7 11-year olds are playing a full 60-70 minutes?  God forbid a girl goes out of town or is injured.  Maybe My DD is lucky as we are not accustomed to having a coach yank players for mistakes, but this sounds horrible for development of 11-year olds. Sounds like a better formula for burnout.

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Post by Elpistolero 19/09/16, 10:41 pm

Dts south has about 18 kids on roster. I was told he was developing a good bench. Next gal up.
HomeStretch wrote:The sub rules are good for the kids in the long run. Many benefits..coach cant yank a kid for every little mistake trying to joystick the players....kids have to learn to think because they can't fly around hair on fire the whole game...coach cant stack 20+ players on a roster and hope to keep the back third happy...only thing bad about the sub rules is college soccer doesnt use them. Mandate 15 player max rosters to go with the sub rules and maybe we can start turning out better quality players .

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Post by KeeperCommander 20/09/16, 06:12 am

HomeStretch wrote:The sub rules are good for the kids in the long run. Many benefits..coach cant yank a kid for every little mistake trying to joystick the players....kids have to learn to think because they can't fly around hair on fire the whole game...coach cant stack 20+ players on a roster and hope to keep the back third happy...only thing bad about the sub rules is college soccer doesnt use them. Mandate 15 player max rosters to go with the sub rules and maybe we can start turning out better quality players .
How about subbing a kid out and coaching them on a mistake then sending them back in to try it out. That helps in development more than anything. Like I said if your DD isn't getting the playing time they need or deserve it may be time to move on to a team that they are. I see most of these teams are 16-18 players. They have to be if you can not insert player back in till 2nd half. Double edge sword.

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Post by HomeStretch 20/09/16, 09:27 am

[quote="KeeperCommander"]
HomeStretch wrote: I see most of these teams are 16-18 players. They have to be....

No, they dont have to be. For the record this has nothing to do with my kid, who is much older than an 05 [I've been watching this stuff a long time].

Ive noticed over the years the teams that developed the fastest had the smallest rosters. The best game i ever watched any of my dd teams play was a tournament game where they had 0 subs....i think 1 showed up at half and they had 1 sub to finish. Girls knew they werent coming out, and they adjusted their style of play accordingly. Absolutely beautiful soccer they put on display that night..it was almost like you could see them thinking about every touch and every run...totally different style than running around trying to make sure you're "stuck in" playing feverish, brainless soccer.

The only thing ussf needs to do to stop the rest the world caching us up in the womens game is pay off enough ncaa admins to align college sub rules with FIFA rules. Talent will spread out and create parity in college, coaches will have to adopt a style of play matching the international game, anson dorrance mass sub with hair on fire style of play will go to history's dust bin.

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Post by tpitty 20/09/16, 09:36 am

The college year changing is a first step for college soccer. They understand they are being passed by on the mens side and are slowly acknowledging that change is needed. The growth of the game is forcing change.

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Post by KeeperCommander 20/09/16, 12:21 pm

[quote="HomeStretch"]
KeeperCommander wrote:
HomeStretch wrote: I see most of these teams are 16-18 players. They have to be....

No, they dont have to be. For the record this has nothing to do with my kid, who is much older than an 05 [I've been watching this stuff a long time].

Ive noticed over the years the teams that developed the fastest had the smallest rosters. The best game i ever watched any of my dd teams play was a tournament game where they had 0 subs....i think 1 showed up at half and they had 1 sub to finish. Girls knew they werent coming out, and they adjusted their style of play accordingly. Absolutely beautiful soccer they put on display that night..it was almost like you could see them thinking about every touch and every run...totally different style than running around trying to make sure you're "stuck in" playing feverish, brainless soccer.

The only thing ussf needs to do to stop the rest the world caching us up in the womens game is pay off enough ncaa admins to align college sub rules with FIFA rules. Talent will spread out and create parity in college, coaches will have to adopt a style of play matching the international game, anson dorrance mass sub with hair on fire style of play will go to history's dust bin.
No rosters need to be 16-18 players when players can not re enter game when they are taken out. And I don't agree to that when you are trying to develop.

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Post by tpitty 20/09/16, 12:34 pm

They can reenter after the half. Not sure what the problem is.

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Post by KeeperCommander 20/09/16, 12:40 pm

There is no problem. I just don't agree that is in anyway proper for an 11 year old to develop. It is absolutely absurd. I reiterated it because Homestretch had what I said wrong.

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Post by tpitty 20/09/16, 12:50 pm

Is your kiddo on a JDL team?

If not, then you have made what you think is the best choice. Move along.

If yes, then get switched to Lake Highlands, problem solved.

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Post by KeeperCommander 20/09/16, 12:58 pm

tpitty wrote:Is your kiddo on a JDL team?

If not, then you have made what you think is the best choice. Move along.

If yes, then get switched to Lake Highlands, problem solved.
Where my DD plays is irrelevant to the comments I made. I wasn't claiming I had made the better choice, only made by a comment on a post in a particular thread I found amusing. I made no analogies to one another. Now on a completely different topic my DD is in LH.

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Post by Lakedad 20/09/16, 03:47 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:
tpitty wrote:Is your kiddo on a JDL team?

If not, then you have made what you think is the best choice. Move along.

If yes, then get switched to Lake Highlands, problem solved.
Where my DD plays is irrelevant to the comments I made. I wasn't claiming I had made the better choice, only made by a comment on a post in a particular thread I found amusing. I made no analogies to one another. Now on a completely different topic my DD is in LH.

Looks like tpitty is back to being old and crotchety. Yea...the board is back. It's been a pretty quiet around these parts.

I don't like the sub rules. It doesn't stop a coach from yanking a kid and it doesn't let someone grab a quick drink on a hot day. Smaller rosters = more substitutions so all kids get max playing time. A kid can get a 5 minutes of rest, a drink and some instruction before subbing out another. It's platooning at it's best and right now, you are restricted from doing that.

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Post by KeeperCommander 20/09/16, 03:51 pm

Lakedad wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
tpitty wrote:Is your kiddo on a JDL team?

If not, then you have made what you think is the best choice. Move along.

If yes, then get switched to Lake Highlands, problem solved.
Where my DD plays is irrelevant to the comments I made. I wasn't claiming I had made the better choice, only made by a comment on a post in a particular thread I found amusing. I made no analogies to one another. Now on a completely different topic my DD is in LH.

Looks like tpitty is back to being old and crotchety. Yea...the board is back. It's been a pretty quiet around these parts.

I don't like the sub rules. It doesn't stop a coach from yanking a kid and it doesn't let someone grab a quick drink on a hot day. Smaller rosters = more substitutions so all kids get max playing time. A kid can get a 5 minutes of rest, a drink and some instruction before subbing out another. It's platooning at it's best and right now, you are restricted from doing that.

Precisely my point

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Post by HomeStretch 20/09/16, 04:37 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:There is no problem. I just don't agree that is in anyway proper for an 11 year old to develop. It is absolutely absurd. I reiterated it because  Homestretch had what I said wrong.

I didnt have what you said wrong. I just disagree that restricted sub rules require big rosters, or that its too hard on kids.

Another anectdotal story....when my kid was u11, LH and state cup had all the best local talent. One team that made it to the finals hadnt done much all year with a big roster....i think they finished LH around 5 or out of top 5. For whatever reason they lost players and went to state cup with 12. They won state cup with 12 players, and their style (imho) looked better then than it did all year.

You dont need more players on the bench for development. Coach should be doing bulk of the teaching at practices, not games.

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Post by TatonkaBurger 20/09/16, 04:52 pm

With the extreme heat (and cold) and with the physical style of play that most coaches encourage and the refs continue to allow in NTX, the 12 or even 13 man roster just will not work.  Sorry HS but you cannot sustain it for a contract term without times of absolute desperation for bodies or even playing a man down.  It might even contribute to injuries.
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