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Post by tpitty 02/11/16, 10:25 am

Zizou wrote:Your assertion only focus is on the elite players at this age. Due to the over emphasis on rankings, league standings, and winning players with soccer abilities are being passed up sometimes just because they cannot handle the physical sometimes dirty play. Another thing to consider is burnout. We are competing for national championship with players as early as 8 years of age. Every game becomes a must win, every game is treated as the most important game you will ever play. I still believe you can get your competitive fix through tournaments. My two cents.

+1

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Post by ElClassico 02/11/16, 10:29 am

"Development" in NTX soccer Razz Razz Razz
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Post by tpitty 02/11/16, 10:31 am

After being involved for too long, this is a step in the right direction. Add DA to it, and it can only get better.

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Post by Mall_pugh 02/11/16, 10:41 am

Sub rule in JDL :
It's as simple as a speeding violation.

Coaches have used unlimited subs in several games due to thin rosters / injuries or whatever . These coaches are buddies and i don't see them arguing over this silly rule. Don't think the JDL coaches care who wins the games which is admirable.  




SickofSilliness wrote:Some coaches also take the approach that they can develop players without playing in a "developmental league".

Some coaches didn't buy into the limited substitution rules, which they felt hinders development and limits playing time.

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Post by ElClassico 02/11/16, 10:57 am

From the outside looking in (my DD is older) JDL is just another gimmick to steer girls to the Big 4. It is in no way shape or form designed to develop girls with potential into better players. It's designed to get as many good players in front of certain coaches to allow them to sift through and find the best players at those specific tryouts. Do you actually think these coaches says to themselves, "wow that little #11 has a lot of potential, it may take a few years to develop her but I'll take the chance over the big #15 who just uses her size and speed"...please. Yes the girls in JDL will have a better chance to develop due to the coaches they will play under but don't fool yourself into thinking there is any long term strategy in place. It's simply 4-5 coaches picking the best teams on the playground.
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Post by SickofStupidity 02/11/16, 11:06 am

Mall_pugh wrote:Sub rule in JDL :
It's as simple as a speeding violation.

Coaches have used unlimited subs in several games due to thin rosters / injuries or whatever . These coaches are buddies and i don't see them arguing over this silly rule. Don't think the JDL coaches care who wins the games which is admirable.  




SickofSilliness wrote:Some coaches also take the approach that they can develop players without playing in a "developmental league".

Some coaches didn't buy into the limited substitution rules, which they felt hinders development and limits playing time.

and in other games, have been prohibited from doing so, even though the coaches agreed, as the refs were instructed to "follow the rules" - which limit substitutions

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Post by Big Ern 02/11/16, 12:59 pm

ElClassico wrote:From the outside looking in (my DD is older) JDL is just another gimmick to steer girls to the Big 4. It is in no way shape or form designed to develop girls with potential into better players. It's designed to get as many good players in front of certain coaches to allow them to sift through and find the best players at those specific tryouts. Do you actually think these coaches says to themselves, "wow that little #11 has a lot of potential, it may take a few years to develop her but I'll take the chance over the big #15 who just uses her size and speed"...please. Yes the girls in JDL will have a better chance to develop due to the coaches they will play under but don't fool yourself into thinking there is any long term strategy in place. It's simply 4-5 coaches picking the best teams on the playground.

^ Mostly accurate and 'steering' top talent to the Big 4 is exactly what should be happening, but ...

Among other reasons, JDL was indeed "designed" to improve players, especially for those at U11 and U12 as they have more time. For example ... simply placing a moderately talented forward on a team with an elite central midfielder will make her better and vice versa. That and having girls play in different positions/formations will certainly develop better players.

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Post by SickofStupidity 02/11/16, 01:06 pm

BigErn wrote:
ElClassico wrote:From the outside looking in (my DD is older) JDL is just another gimmick to steer girls to the Big 4. It is in no way shape or form designed to develop girls with potential into better players. It's designed to get as many good players in front of certain coaches to allow them to sift through and find the best players at those specific tryouts. Do you actually think these coaches says to themselves, "wow that little #11 has a lot of potential, it may take a few years to develop her but I'll take the chance over the big #15 who just uses her size and speed"...please. Yes the girls in JDL will have a better chance to develop due to the coaches they will play under but don't fool yourself into thinking there is any long term strategy in place. It's simply 4-5 coaches picking the best teams on the playground.

^ Mostly accurate and 'steering' top talent to the Big 4 is exactly what should be happening, but ...

Among other reasons, JDL was indeed "designed" to improve players, especially for those at U11 and U12 as they have more time.  For example ... simply placing a moderately talented forward on a team with an elite central midfielder will make her better and vice versa.  That and having girls play in different positions/formations will certainly develop better players.


Laughing

None of the coaches mentioned above signed "moderately talented" players to play alongside "elite" players

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Post by KeeperCommander 02/11/16, 01:14 pm

SickofSilliness wrote:
Mall_pugh wrote:Sub rule in JDL :
It's as simple as a speeding violation.

Coaches have used unlimited subs in several games due to thin rosters / injuries or whatever . These coaches are buddies and i don't see them arguing over this silly rule. Don't think the JDL coaches care who wins the games which is admirable.  




SickofSilliness wrote:Some coaches also take the approach that they can develop players without playing in a "developmental league".

Some coaches didn't buy into the limited substitution rules, which they felt hinders development and limits playing time.

and in other games, have been prohibited from doing so, even though the coaches agreed, as the refs were instructed to "follow the rules" - which limit substitutions
I did not think the subs were limited so much as they were restricted as to when they could re-enter the game. (i.e. Once taken out player could not go back in till second half) Which was one of the ways the non elite would be guaranteed playing time. Just thoughts.

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Post by Big Ern 02/11/16, 01:19 pm

SoS --

I understand that from where you stand that it may appear that way, but knowing these guys and watching these teams, I can assure you that is not the case. If you talk with LW, CP, JD or GA, they'd tell you they'd like to have 5 girls from one of the others teams than 5 that they have on roster currently. To form a team completely made up of elite players, you'd have to take the best of the top 4 teams plus grab a few others than remain in outlying Clubs (at least for now).


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Post by SickofStupidity 02/11/16, 01:23 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:
Mall_pugh wrote:Sub rule in JDL :
It's as simple as a speeding violation.

Coaches have used unlimited subs in several games due to thin rosters / injuries or whatever . These coaches are buddies and i don't see them arguing over this silly rule. Don't think the JDL coaches care who wins the games which is admirable.  




SickofSilliness wrote:Some coaches also take the approach that they can develop players without playing in a "developmental league".

Some coaches didn't buy into the limited substitution rules, which they felt hinders development and limits playing time.

and in other games, have been prohibited from doing so, even though the coaches agreed, as the refs were instructed to "follow the rules" - which limit substitutions
I did not think the subs were limited so much as they were restricted as to when they could re-enter the game.  (i.e. Once taken out player could not go back in till second half)  Which was one of the ways the non elite would be guaranteed playing time.  Just thoughts.

It doesn't guarantee anything

Playing time is determined by the coach - whether you restrict re-entry or not

Sub them in after 15 minutes to rotate kids around, or wait until the final 5 in the half

I've seen numerous coaches (including those above) wait until deep into the first half to make substitutions.  Kids riding the for the first 25+ minutes aren't seeing more playing time than they would otherwise

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Post by SickofStupidity 02/11/16, 01:27 pm

BigErn wrote:SoS --

I understand that from where you stand that it may appear that way, but knowing these guys and watching these teams, I can assure you that is not the case.  If you talk with LW, CP, JD or GA, they'd tell you they'd like to have 5 girls from one of the others teams than 5 that they have on roster currently.  To form a team completely made up of elite players, you'd have to take the best of the top 4 teams plus grab a few others than remain in outlying Clubs (at least for now).


Oh, I don't disagree -

just saying there is a breadth of talent between "elite" and "moderately talented"

as well as less talented but big and strong

Just don't make it sound like there is some altruistic intent on the part of coaches to give moderately talented players spots on their elite team over kids who are substantially talented (though not elite) . . . and kids who are big and strong

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Post by KeeperCommander 02/11/16, 01:32 pm

SickofSilliness wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:
Mall_pugh wrote:Sub rule in JDL :
It's as simple as a speeding violation.

Coaches have used unlimited subs in several games due to thin rosters / injuries or whatever . These coaches are buddies and i don't see them arguing over this silly rule. Don't think the JDL coaches care who wins the games which is admirable.  




SickofSilliness wrote:Some coaches also take the approach that they can develop players without playing in a "developmental league".

Some coaches didn't buy into the limited substitution rules, which they felt hinders development and limits playing time.

and in other games, have been prohibited from doing so, even though the coaches agreed, as the refs were instructed to "follow the rules" - which limit substitutions
I did not think the subs were limited so much as they were restricted as to when they could re-enter the game.  (i.e. Once taken out player could not go back in till second half)  Which was one of the ways the non elite would be guaranteed playing time.  Just thoughts.

It doesn't guarantee anything

Playing time is determined by the coach - whether you restrict re-entry or not

Sub them in after 15 minutes to rotate kids around, or wait until the final 5 in the half

I've seen numerous coaches (including those above) wait until deep into the first half to make substitutions.  Kids riding the for the first 25+ minutes aren't seeing more playing time than they would otherwise
True
However if you have a roster that is thin and you are not able to put a player back in till second half then you would most definitely second think subs or have a deeper bench. Deeper bench means you need to sub more to get every player minutes. Do not know of many coaches that do that. Thinner benches are prob what caused the coaches to implement their own rule. I said it early on in this thread, this rule does not advocate for development. First if you take a player out and you want to give him some instruction on what they might have done wrong or even very right you can not do it. Not without the risk of not being able to put them right back in afterward. Silly rule even though it is implemented in ECNL, at this age it does not make much sense.

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Post by ForReal 02/11/16, 01:35 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:
Mall_pugh wrote:Sub rule in JDL :
It's as simple as a speeding violation.

Coaches have used unlimited subs in several games due to thin rosters / injuries or whatever . These coaches are buddies and i don't see them arguing over this silly rule. Don't think the JDL coaches care who wins the games which is admirable.  




SickofSilliness wrote:Some coaches also take the approach that they can develop players without playing in a "developmental league".

Some coaches didn't buy into the limited substitution rules, which they felt hinders development and limits playing time.

and in other games, have been prohibited from doing so, even though the coaches agreed, as the refs were instructed to "follow the rules" - which limit substitutions
I did not think the subs were limited so much as they were restricted as to when they could re-enter the game.  (i.e. Once taken out player could not go back in till second half)  Which was one of the ways the non elite would be guaranteed playing time.  Just thoughts.

It doesn't guarantee anything

Playing time is determined by the coach - whether you restrict re-entry or not

Sub them in after 15 minutes to rotate kids around, or wait until the final 5 in the half

I've seen numerous coaches (including those above) wait until deep into the first half to make substitutions.  Kids riding the for the first 25+ minutes aren't seeing more playing time than they would otherwise
True
However if you have a roster that is thin and you are not able to put a player back in till second half then you would most definitely second think subs or have a deeper bench.  Deeper bench means you need to sub more to get every player minutes.  Do not know of many coaches that do that.  Thinner benches are prob what caused the coaches to implement their own rule.  I said it early on in this thread, this rule does not advocate for development.  First if you take a player out and you want to give him some instruction on what they might have done wrong or even very right you can not do it.  Not without the risk of not being able to put them right back in afterward.  Silly rule even though it is implemented in ECNL, at this age it does not make much sense.

KC and I agree on something.  The substitution rule, as far as I know, wasn't implemented at the request of the coaches.  If anything, most of them don't like it and, from time to time, have agreed to a free substitution rule with no restrictions on reentry.

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Post by KeeperCommander 02/11/16, 01:43 pm

ForReal wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
SickofSilliness wrote:
Mall_pugh wrote:Sub rule in JDL :
It's as simple as a speeding violation.

Coaches have used unlimited subs in several games due to thin rosters / injuries or whatever . These coaches are buddies and i don't see them arguing over this silly rule. Don't think the JDL coaches care who wins the games which is admirable.  






and in other games, have been prohibited from doing so, even though the coaches agreed, as the refs were instructed to "follow the rules" - which limit substitutions
I did not think the subs were limited so much as they were restricted as to when they could re-enter the game.  (i.e. Once taken out player could not go back in till second half)  Which was one of the ways the non elite would be guaranteed playing time.  Just thoughts.

It doesn't guarantee anything

Playing time is determined by the coach - whether you restrict re-entry or not

Sub them in after 15 minutes to rotate kids around, or wait until the final 5 in the half

I've seen numerous coaches (including those above) wait until deep into the first half to make substitutions.  Kids riding the for the first 25+ minutes aren't seeing more playing time than they would otherwise
True
However if you have a roster that is thin and you are not able to put a player back in till second half then you would most definitely second think subs or have a deeper bench.  Deeper bench means you need to sub more to get every player minutes.  Do not know of many coaches that do that.  Thinner benches are prob what caused the coaches to implement their own rule.  I said it early on in this thread, this rule does not advocate for development.  First if you take a player out and you want to give him some instruction on what they might have done wrong or even very right you can not do it.  Not without the risk of not being able to put them right back in afterward.  Silly rule even though it is implemented in ECNL, at this age it does not make much sense.

KC and I agree on something.  The substitution rule, as far as I know, wasn't implemented at the request of the coaches.  If anything, most of them don't like it and, from time to time, have agreed to a free substitution rule with no restrictions on reentry.
Shhh!!! Ruin my reputation.
I was not aware that they could selectively chose which rules to follow and which ones to obey on their own.

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Post by WisdomTeeth 03/11/16, 10:31 pm

Great representation by Sting Parsons this past weekend at Tulsa junior ECNL cheers cheers cheers
Looks like NTX pretty much took care of STX across the board
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Post by ForReal 10/04/17, 02:00 pm

This was such a good thread.  Now that LH is over and JDL is all but over, I thought it would be fun to revisit this discussion.  And to memorialize this crazy year as so many will be going their separate ways. Here's how I would rank the top 10 teams in NTX.

1.  DTS
2.  Solar Colvin
3.  FCD Red
4.  Kicks
5.  Liverpool
6.  Solar Pulp
7.  Sting Parsons
8.  FCD Blue
9.  Sting Higginbotham
10.  Fever

1 is clear.  2-4 are interchangeable on any given day.  Liverpool is tough to slot as, of the JDL teams, they have only played Sting Higgonbotham other than DTS.

Not intended to slight anyone's DD.  How would you rank them?

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Post by Lakedad 10/04/17, 02:06 pm

ForReal wrote:This was such a good thread.  Now that LH is over and JDL is all but over, I thought it would be fun to revisit this discussion.  And to memorialize this crazy year as so many will be going their separate ways. Here's how I would rank the top 10 teams in NTX.

1.  DTS
2.  Solar Colvin
3.  FCD Red
4.  Kicks
5.  Liverpool
6.  Solar Pulp
7.  Sting Parsons
8.  FCD Blue
9.  Sting Higginbotham
10.  Fever

1 is clear.  2-4 are interchangeable on any given day.  Liverpool is tough to slot as, of the JDL teams, they have only played Sting Higgonbotham other than DTS.

Not intended to slight anyone's DD.  How would you rank them?

1. DTS
2. FCD Red, Solars, Kicks
3. Higgy, liver
4. Parsons
5. blue, fever
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Post by physical2005 10/04/17, 02:17 pm

Didn't Blue beat Pulp recently- or was that a nightmare?

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Post by ColtMcVince 10/04/17, 02:22 pm

Kicks is on a different level than FCD red and solars. I would move those down one notch and include LP. Beyond that, I think the LH teams that are 4-6 or 7 slot in with the likes of Hig and Parsons and maybe throw FCD blue in there.

Lots of teams in the international tournament this weekend. Will be interesting to see how things play out.

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Post by ForReal 10/04/17, 02:26 pm

physical2005 wrote:Didn't Blue beat Pulp recently- or was that a nightmare?

You are correct.  However, given Blue's earlier loss to Pulp (0-3 I believe), I wasn't quite ready to drop them any further.  I did drop Higginbotham as they just lost to Parsons, but their previous contest was a draw.

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Post by ForReal 10/04/17, 02:29 pm

ColtMcVince wrote:Kicks is on a different level than FCD red and solars.  I would move those down one notch and include LP.  Beyond that, I think the LH teams that are 4-6 or 7 slot in with the likes of Hig and Parsons and maybe throw FCD blue in there.  

Lots of teams in the international tournament this weekend.  Will be interesting to see how things play out.

Not sure I would say Kicks is on a different level than FCD Red. In their only matchup that I'm aware of, FCD Red did come out on top (Vegas finals).

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Post by physical2005 10/04/17, 02:33 pm

ForReal wrote:
physical2005 wrote:Didn't Blue beat Pulp recently- or was that a nightmare?

You are correct.  However, given Blue's earlier loss to Pulp (0-3 I believe), I wasn't quite ready to drop them any further.  I did drop Higginbotham as they just lost to Parsons, but their previous contest was a draw.

I also so Blue was slaughtered by Colvin's team this past weekend.

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05 JDL - Page 12 Empty Post-Season Pecking Order

Post by soccerphun 10/04/17, 02:46 pm

soccerphun wrote:OK, 05's....let me kick some sleeping dogs and wake this Forum up.  

Pre-season pecking order:

1. DTS Adames -- they could play in the 04 JDL and be very competitive.  One word:  physical  
2. Solar Pulp -- few remnants of last year's State Cup championship team but a very solid reload.
3. Solar Colvin -- this team has been playing together the longest and it shows.
4. Sting Higganbotham -- expect this team to be top dawg or close in 2 years.  
5. FCD Red Baker -- can play with anyone when they play their game, but wheels can come off quickly too.
6. DTC Bussey -- lots of raw athletes that can score in a hurry but gets exposed with lack of technical ability.
7. FCD Blue Baker -- look for a fluid roster here.  Surprisingly light on talent.
8. Sting Parsons -- they will have flashes of brilliance but just don't have the horses to compete for 60 mins.

No excel solver macros...just a compilation of observations since June when the teams started forming.  

Shame we won't see JM's Kicks group in here -- they would have easily been top 5 -- other D'Feeters team would have been slugging it out with Parsons for the cellar.

Post-season pecking order:

1. DTS Adames '05 -- league of their own...literally.  Played up in 04s for the Spring campaign.
2-4. Solar Pulp / Solar Colvin / FCD Red Baker -- fairly interchangeable.
In-season head-to-head:

Pulp vs Colvin:  Pulp won 1-0 and tied 0-0
Colvin vs. FCD Red:  Tied twice, 2-2 and 0-0
Pulp vs. FCD Red: Pulp won 1-0, FCD won 1-0 and tied 2-2

5. DTS Adames '06 -- not a typo...I think their 06's showed they should continue playing up.
6. Sting Parsons -- established themselves as #1 Sting team  
7. FCD Blue -- hard to tell what the actual roster is here.  Dallas Int'l Cup should reveal what they really have here.
8. Sting Higgy -- Gutierrez may need to overhaul this team as it never quite gelled and Higgy bailed early.

** DT Central Bussey disbanded
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Post by GK2005 10/04/17, 09:27 pm

soccerphun, FYI not sure where you are getting your information on DT Central Bussey that you posted above but it is not accurate.

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Post by Big Boy Bentley 11/04/17, 08:49 am

Unless your special child is hand picked for the inclusive circle of friends I would recommend a club that doesn't have JDL. I'm so glad my kid got to play in LH this year instead sitting on the bench. I saw too many of my old pals kids being benched by player pass and guest...just ask all the experts who are pumping the propoganda. The slate is clean in the fall again we will see the same players every weekend...now we know why NTX except for the top 4 or 5 teams is fantasy land.....new coach's new players maybe people will figure it out sooner than later....

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