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What determines starting positions?? Pixel
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What determines starting positions??

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Post by Mall_pugh 15/09/16, 01:08 am

I am trying to get something useful from forum.  I am a first time user , so take it easy on me peeps. Back to story , with all the new age group changes , we have a new coach this year.  Until last year , my dd was a starter and she started a few games off the bench for her team.   This season, she has a new coach , the new coach favors a few of her teammates over her.  For example , say she is a forward , her coach has a pre determined line up and my dd has been coming off the bench in all the tments , league games, even at practices.    
My dd hasn't changed her effort during games or her work habits such as being early to train , compete for every single 50-50 ball at training and at her games.  She starting doubting herself but her effort is the same. I had to reaffirm dd that her new coach is trying several stuff , this happens to pros as well and just keep doing what she is doing instead of adding pressure on her.  And not to mention , there is another player that starts off the bench that has excellent foot skills and is very crafty than starters. Some of these other players that the coach starts don't even show up to the trainings but have been in the coach's system for a few more seasons than these two talented ladies.  It even bothers a few parents in our team that  this coach is limiting these two girls.
My questions are :  
Does my dd need to confess to the coach on how she feels ? It has put fire in her belly to step up every time this season.  I like seeing this new side in my dd. I am just thinking it's her fight and let her battle through it.  Any thoughts ??

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Post by KeeperCommander 15/09/16, 06:19 am

Mall_pugh wrote:I am trying to get something useful from forum.  I am a first time user , so take it easy on me peeps. Back to story , with all the new age group changes , we have a new coach this year.  Until last year , my dd was a starter and she started a few games off the bench for her team.   This season, she has a new coach , the new coach favors a few of her teammates over her.  For example , say she is a forward , her coach has a pre determined line up and my dd has been coming off the bench in all the tments , league games, even at practices.    
My dd hasn't changed her effort during games or her work habits such as being early to train , compete for every single 50-50 ball at training and at her games.  She starting doubting herself but her effort is the same. I had to reaffirm dd that her new coach is trying several stuff , this happens to pros as well and just keep doing what she is doing instead of adding pressure on her.  And not to mention , there is another player that starts off the bench that has excellent foot skills and is very crafty than starters. Some of these other players that the coach starts don't even show up to the trainings but have been in the coach's system for a few more seasons than these two talented ladies.  It even bothers a few parents in our team that  this coach is limiting these two girls.
My questions are :  
Does my dd need to confess to the coach on how she feels ? It has put fire in her belly to step up every time this season.  I like seeing this new side in my dd. I am just thinking it's her fight and let her battle through it.  Any thoughts ??
First, you have to look at age group. If it's a younger age group then you have to decide if it's worth not being trained/developed properly. Maybe he uses the athletes over the more skilled players. Don't know. If you are an academy player then you can find another team. I sincerely doubt a coach changes his ways because of what a parent wants. They have their own agenda. In short if your DD does not mind the challenge of coming off bench then let her battle this and dig her way into more playing time. If you feel it's hurting her then move on. Not enough playing time can hurt a young player.

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Post by Guest 15/09/16, 07:29 am

Your DD is a forward, but you don't mention that she's scoring goals. Try another position. Maybe the agegroup change is a blessing in disguise.

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Post by SocDad 15/09/16, 08:56 am

At times....Life sucks

"Bad things happen to good people ....and Good things happen to bad people"!

Life is like playing Cards.....You win some hands and you lose some hands.

1st and always, address your concerns to the coach.  If over time it doesn't rectify your feelings....move on (that's the suck'y part).
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Post by Hopesolo1 15/09/16, 09:05 am

Karma lol!
Be careful, the coach may label you as over involved and a difficult parent unless you buy him/ her some expensive gifts for Christmas.  In some cases , mavs or cowboys tickets may win the starting position back.  The later choice is inexpensive than moving on. Seen it all with 4 soccer kids and it works

SocDad wrote:At times....Life sucks

"Bad things happen to good people ....and Good things happen to bad people"!

Life is like playing Cards.....You win some hands and you lose some hands.

1st and always, address your concerns to the coach.  If over time it doesn't rectify your feelings....move on (that's the suck'y part).

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Post by rockindaddy 15/09/16, 09:09 am

A good looking mom
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Post by Hopesolo1 15/09/16, 09:11 am

That never fails or a " hot" manager mom.
rockindaddy wrote:A good looking mom

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Post by TatonkaBurger 15/09/16, 09:14 am

Remember that you are the parent of your DD and might have a rosie few of her talent.  Be honest with yourself and her about her level of play.  Is she the superstar you think she is?  Or is she really getting a raw deal from the coach?
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Post by Mall_pugh 15/09/16, 09:47 am

Right , no-one is a superstar at select age group. Just trying to get input ftom anyone in the same situation. We are just finding it strange in this unfamiliar territory. We wil talk to coach at some point to see what she needs to work on and wish to sort this if it hinders her progress.

TatonkaBurger wrote:Remember that you are the parent of your DD and might have a rosie few of her talent.  Be honest with yourself and her about her level of play.  Is she the superstar you think she is?  Or is she really getting a raw deal from the coach?

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Post by PowerKick 15/09/16, 09:48 am

Hopesolo1 wrote:
In some cases , mavs or cowboys tickets may win the starting position back.

I saw a coach tried to sell his cowboys tickets to his parents on facebook. He did the same last year.

This is so disgusting !!!

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Post by Mall_pugh 15/09/16, 09:49 am

Very consistent in what she does. Yes she does score most games.
Sho'Nuff wrote:Your DD is a forward, but you don't mention that she's scoring goals. Try another position. Maybe the agegroup change is a blessing in disguise.

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Post by Hopesolo1 15/09/16, 10:07 am

Ha! Was he paying his credit card debt accumulated at strip bars before his significant other finds out.

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Post by Buddy Israel 15/09/16, 10:13 am

I'd focus more on is she getting playing time and improving rather than is she a starter. Where is she during crucial times in the game. On the pitch or on the bench?
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Post by Wannabe 15/09/16, 11:00 am

With the new year and all the changes, I have seen several kids/parents ask the same question. My team included.

First, it's not about starting or not starting at the being of the season. That's a bit short sighted with all the changes. Give it time. It's more important to develop and play during the important minutes late in the season.

Second, remember that all coaches have their style of play and they all vary. So with any coach change (regardless of club change or not) there will be different expectations from the new coach. It's easier for the coach to play kids that have previously played for them because they understand the style of play a little better to start the season. They may not be the best overall player but they bring consistency to the position. This will change as the year moves along. The other players will learn the system and start pushing out some of the kids the coach had last season. This doesn't mean the coach doesn't like your kid but instead the coach is not yet comfortable playing all the new players. Now that you have practiced and played for the coach for the past 2-3 months, it is a good time to visit with the coach about your child's progression and what pluses & minuses the coach sees in your kid. Most coaches like being asked their opinion, just don't start off demanding playing time or trying to critic other players.

I actually believe more players should play for multiple coaches during their playing career. It gives them the chance to learn different styles and different positions. This is how you build their soccer IQ. It's hard to develop a strong soccer IQ if you only play for 1 coach, regardless how good the coach is. If your goal is to play LH D1, JDL, ECNL, DA, College, Pros or National Team these will all be played with a different coach & system.

As an example, my kid has played several years for a club coach that prefers to slow the game down, play back, switch the field and hold possession. She is very good at this style and rarely comes off the field. But she has struggled with her high school coach who prefers to play faster and go forward. So she is a bench player currently. Both coaches are good coaches but they are in different environments and have to do different things to win. She was very upset at her high school coach but we have explained it's time for her to develop more of her game.

Talk to the coach and make the changes needed. Then give it time. Nothing happens over night and this will not be a wasted year.

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Post by Pele98 15/09/16, 11:56 am

Buddy Israel wrote:I'd focus more on is she getting playing time and improving rather than is she a starter. Where is she during crucial times in the game. On the pitch or on the bench?


I would focus more on whether she is getting a good training and improving or not.  If a player is just looking for starting, there is countless of teams out there which can offer that and at a throw-away fees too.

Good teams train hard and always will try to have all their players train at the same level of play, hence no dipping in games. A game is only 1 - 1.5 hours a week.  Most teams train minimum of 3 hours a week.  A player gains more in training than in a game.
Starting or not is an ego thing for parents.
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Post by Mall_pugh 15/09/16, 12:11 pm

Pele and wannabe , good responses. No ego here. She gets good playtime and she does enjoy it when she is on the field with her team. One thing I believe is "either the player is self-motivated or other type". Shouldn't take long for the current coach to capture that and give her what she deserves. Like I said , I am enjoying to see the new side of dds desire. Coaches have doubted Landon Donavan , Alex Morgan . Will be positive and let her enjoy her journey.

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Post by Guest 15/09/16, 12:21 pm

Pele98 wrote:
Buddy Israel wrote:I'd focus more on is she getting playing time and improving rather than is she a starter. Where is she during crucial times in the game. On the pitch or on the bench?


I would focus more on whether she is getting a good training and improving or not.  If a player is just looking for starting, there is countless of teams out there which can offer that and at a throw-away fees too.

Good teams train hard and always will try to have all their players train at the same level of play, hence no dipping in games. A game is only 1 - 1.5 hours a week.  Most teams train minimum of 3 hours a week.  A player gains more in training than in a game.
Starting or not is an ego thing for parents.

Parents can and should concern themselves with starting and playing time. If the OP is right in DD assessment, go elsewhere and prove the coach wrong.

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Post by newbiefornow 15/09/16, 02:54 pm

Great discussion. I've come to realize that Forwards tend to get subb'd a lot. It seems to be the nature of the position (they do more running in the NTX style of play). If your DD is getting the minutes she needs then not starting can be an advantage. Our DD didn't start on a couple of her teams early on. She used the time to really look at the play and at the other team, so that when she came on she could be more effective. It also allowed her to understand the flow of the game and the techniques being used by the coaches.

Starting is an ego thing for more than the parents which obviously as a parent you may need to manage in your daughter. She's new to the team so will need to "play in" and she can use the opportunity to learn how to watch a game and get an edge on the players she's up against in the game. It's much easier to see patterns from the sideline than on the pitch. Worth mentioning to her. When she is starting, remind her that she still needs to pay attention to the patterns. It will just be harder :-)

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Post by Guest 15/09/16, 02:58 pm

Sho'Nuff wrote:
Pele98 wrote:
Buddy Israel wrote:I'd focus more on is she getting playing time and improving rather than is she a starter. Where is she during crucial times in the game. On the pitch or on the bench?


I would focus more on whether she is getting a good training and improving or not.  If a player is just looking for starting, there is countless of teams out there which can offer that and at a throw-away fees too.

Good teams train hard and always will try to have all their players train at the same level of play, hence no dipping in games. A game is only 1 - 1.5 hours a week.  Most teams train minimum of 3 hours a week.  A player gains more in training than in a game.
Starting or not is an ego thing for parents.

Parents can and should concern themselves with starting and playing time. If the OP is right in DD assessment, go elsewhere and prove the coach wrong.

I also completely agree that you should concern yourself with play time. The development of a player making real time decisions cannot be duplicated in practice (aside from scrimmages or whatever). If you're getting no play time...

1) The coach thinks you just don't have the skill -- Then a new environment is probably better. Either to prove them wrong as ShoNuff says or simply to find a level she fits at.
2) The coach has ulterior motives -- well, that goes without saying you should leave.
3) The coach thinks you don't fit a system or athletic type -- You can't change that so you consider should leaving.
4) The coach thinks you don't fit right now but with work you can -- Then, by all means, encourage your kid to earn it. Valuable lesson there.

Through the years, my son/daughters have at some point been part of #1, #3, and #4 situations as listed above. Point is, though, there are multiple possibilities and rather than assuming the worst or the best, you should talk to the coach and find out. Assuming he/she tells you the truth, you can make an informed decision. But I definitely would not just assume working hard will earn playing time or assume that moving to another team will get more play time.

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Post by jocooptx 15/09/16, 03:41 pm

There are a number of good points on this topic. Given I am currently coaching rec on a team i picked up this season, but, am an NSCAA Adv National and USSF D coach. I have a player whose Dad thinks she is a forward. Says, hey, a lot of teams she has played on, she was a forward and scored goals. I step thru the SWOT Analysis, Strength is she has sprinters speed, Weakness is 1st touch, endurance, and understanding moving without the ball. Opportunity is to develop that 1st touch and increase fitness, but, I am a possession coach and not looking for kick and chase players. For now until she improves in at least 2 of those weaknesses she is a CB, which I value my CBs. Watch the style of play (direct vs indirect, possession vs chase) your coach is playing and ask yourself if your DD fits that style of play, and if not, what can you help develop to better fit. Here is another thing, All my players get about the same minutes, but, all 11 that start aren't the best 11 on the roster. I try to stagger some developing players so they don't all hit the field at the same time. My DD comes off the bench most days for this reason.

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Post by Guest 15/09/16, 04:11 pm

skiberdad wrote:
4) The coach thinks you don't fit right now but with work you can -- Then, by all means, encourage your kid to earn it. Valuable lesson there.

I salute any coach and parent that are able to get there.

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Post by Guest 15/09/16, 04:22 pm

Sho'Nuff wrote:
skiberdad wrote:
4) The coach thinks you don't fit right now but with work you can -- Then, by all means, encourage your kid to earn it. Valuable lesson there.

I salute any coach and parent that are able to get there.

My daughter left for ECNL years ago, but Kenneth Penn at Fever did this for my daughter for which I will be forever grateful. There are coaches out there that give a sh*t about your kids. They sure are hard to find, though. He made my daughter earn her starting spot. He let her know what he needed from her and when he got it, he was good for his word. My daughter works hard for things she wants now outside of soccer because of what he taught her on the soccer field. She will carry that lesson for the rest of her life and she will be more successful because of him. My kids have had several good coaches in their careers, but none had a more meaningful effect than Penn. Everyone who reads this forum, remember that name. If you have kids that are of the right age, you won't find a better man to teach your kids.

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Post by CBTeamworks 15/09/16, 05:01 pm

Players need to have a relationship with their coach. If she doesn't know why her coach is doing what he/she is doing then she needs to have a conversation with her coach. I'm not saying that the OP does this but many of us as parents want to fight our daughters battles for them and it doesn't teach them how to interact with coaches, teachers and bosses. She needs to find out from her coach what she needs to do to reach her goals. She needs a coaches evaluation otherwise she's flying blind as to what the coach wants her to improve on. It could be anything (leadership, hustle, positioning, first touch, etc...).

The other benefit of the player having the relationship, conversation and evaluation is that this coach has a lot of girls that he's coaching. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Coaches love it when players have enough drive that they'll seek out the constructive criticism of their coach in order to improve.
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Post by Guest 15/09/16, 05:03 pm

skiberdad wrote:
Sho'Nuff wrote:
skiberdad wrote:
4) The coach thinks you don't fit right now but with work you can -- Then, by all means, encourage your kid to earn it. Valuable lesson there.

I salute any coach and parent that are able to get there.

My daughter left for ECNL years ago, but Kenneth Penn at Fever did this for my daughter for which I will be forever grateful.  There are coaches out there that give a sh*t about your kids.  They sure are hard to find, though.  He made my daughter earn her starting spot.  He let her know what he needed from her and when he got it, he was good for his word.  My daughter works hard for things she wants now outside of soccer because of what he taught her on the soccer field.  She will carry that lesson for the rest of her life and she will be more successful because of him. My kids have had several good coaches in their careers, but none had a more meaningful effect than
Penn.  Everyone who reads this forum, remember that name.  If you have kids that are of the right age, you won't find a better man to teach your kids.

I agree. Great Coach, Great Person. I'm proud to call him my friend & grateful my kids had him as a Coach.

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Post by goldenshoe 15/09/16, 05:15 pm

skiberdad wrote:
Sho'Nuff wrote:
skiberdad wrote:
4) The coach thinks you don't fit right now but with work you can -- Then, by all means, encourage your kid to earn it. Valuable lesson there.

I salute any coach and parent that are able to get there.

My daughter left for ECNL years ago, but Kenneth Penn at Fever did this for my daughter for which I will be forever grateful.  There are coaches out there that give a sh*t about your kids.  They sure are hard to find, though.  He made my daughter earn her starting spot.  He let her know what he needed from her and when he got it, he was good for his word.  My daughter works hard for things she wants now outside of soccer because of what he taught her on the soccer field.  She will carry that lesson for the rest of her life and she will be more successful because of him. My kids have had several good coaches in their careers, but none had a more meaningful effect than Penn.  Everyone who reads this forum, remember that name.  If you have kids that are of the right age, you won't find a better man to teach your kids.

BIG BIG BIG fan of Coach Penn. He did very exact thing that SKIBERDAD described to my dd as well. Penn was my dd's very first academy coach ( I think she was around 6-7yrs old). He taught her to hold up head high even when she was considered the 'weakest link' of the team. He always praise her with her work ethic and told her that all the effort that she is putting in will be rewarding on the field in the future. He told her it is all about progress and her time will come and to be patient. He showed her what 'hard work' was at every practice by working hard with the girls. Penn is intelligent, passionate and kind hearted person. We are lucky that my dd was able to spend her early years of development with him. My daughter is now U-15 and she still wants to chase him down the field if she spots him to say hi. She does not do that with any other coach that she has been with.

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