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Post by Zizou on 18/11/16, 01:37 pm

Lefty wrote:
Zizou wrote:Identifying a consistent method of training and identification method of players across our country with our selected top players can only be an improvement over the previous system being used..

Not sure how you ever get a top down model to work in a 'Pay to Play' financial model.  Does anyone else in the world operate that way?

If the powers that be wanted to implement a 'No Cost to the players model', to maximize developmental control like it seems the rest of the world does, then it might work.

Trying to have your cake (Pay to Play) and eat it too (Top Down Developmental Control) seems a bit like 'P...ing into the wind'


That would make DA for the girls at least a step in the right direction

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Post by timmyh on 18/11/16, 02:21 pm

Both Challenge and Albion have taken down the DA announcement from their home pages. Because the ECNL said they would revoke their membership if they didn't put forth their best team into ECNL, they've nixed the DA and will stay separate in the ECNL.
Lonestar apparently is weighing whether to do the DA or ECNL.
Dash and Rush appear to be considering partnering together.
With the addition of Classics Elite to ECNL, depending on what Lonestar and Dash/Rush do, it looks like south Texas will either have 2 DA and 3 ECNL teams, 1 DA and 4 ECNL teams, or 0 DA and 5 ECNL teams.

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Post by tpitty on 18/11/16, 02:23 pm

Teufel Hunden wrote:
As far as consistent training method, identification of players, I agree that some tweaking is needed...maybe. It is all under the premise to replicate what is in place on the boys side. Since the time of inception (9 years ago?), how many players has the Boys DA produced that play Pro or in the USMNT? I confess, I haven't looked into it...but I bet not many if any at all. FCD seems to be the most successful team in producing its own talent, but that is of recent years. The ECNL by far is more successful in that regard. Some tweaking may be needed, but nonetheless, it is providing the talent for college (original mission of ECNL is a more direct path for college, Pro, USWNT is icing on the cake). PRO and USWNT talent piggy backs on talent produced in ECNL. Again, can ECNL be better?, YES! Is the DA the answer? Just look at the boys side.

Funny, I messaged a guy from TD soccer on this very issue not too long ago and got this as a response: (The list referred to was a list of DA players that are currently on, or have been on the first team for USMNT)
We don't have such a list but I can tell you the DA impact on our YNTs at all levels is significant (almost too much, IMO). The oldest DA players who've really spent any substantive time in the program are just now in their early 20's, so it's tough to make a pronouncement just yet. The program is only 8 years old, after all, and those early years were just about getting their bearings more than anything.

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Post by Lefty on 18/11/16, 02:53 pm

Zizou wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Zizou wrote:Identifying a consistent method of training and identification method of players across our country with our selected top players can only be an improvement over the previous system being used..

Not sure how you ever get a top down model to work in a 'Pay to Play' financial model.  Does anyone else in the world operate that way?

If the powers that be wanted to implement a 'No Cost to the players model', to maximize developmental control like it seems the rest of the world does, then it might work.

Trying to have your cake (Pay to Play) and eat it too (Top Down Developmental Control) seems a bit like 'P...ing into the wind'


That would make DA for the girls at least a step in the right direction

Assuming DA is free for the players I would agree.  

1 or 2 DA teams in NTX with fairly flexible (open) roster options would seem to provide a good opportunity to focus on development.

The only downside is that all the rest of the 'Pay To Play' players in the club would have to foot the bill, one way or another, as there is no other source of revenue for the DA club to fund the investment in the DA players.

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Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on 18/11/16, 02:58 pm

FCD can corner the market now will they, is the question.
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Post by Lefty on 18/11/16, 03:47 pm

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:FCD can corner the market now will they, is the question.

Have they done it on the boys side?

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Post by tpitty on 18/11/16, 03:48 pm

Lefty wrote:
Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:FCD can corner the market now will they, is the question.

Have they done it on the boys side?

Basically, in terms of talent pool.

In terms of Cost at U13 and up:
FCD: Everything is paid
Texans: Dues/Uni/Coaching paid, Travel is on the parents.
Solar: Discounted Dues.


Last edited by tpitty on 18/11/16, 03:52 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added the cost portion)

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Post by Lefty on 18/11/16, 04:18 pm

tpitty wrote:
Lefty wrote:
Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:FCD can corner the market now will they, is the question.

Have they done it on the boys side?

Basically, in terms of talent pool.

In terms of Cost at U13 and up:
FCD: Everything is paid
Texans: Dues/Uni/Coaching paid, Travel is on the parents.
Solar: Discounted Dues.

FCD can probably make a pretty clear business case for DA investment based on the economics on the boys side. i.e in developing talent (assets) which they sell in the open market or use on their own professional team.

Not sure what the revenue source (or cost avoidance) would be on the girls side to be able to create a reasonable business case.

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Post by SoccerTexas on 18/11/16, 07:16 pm

Teufel Hunden wrote:Sources please..."clubs are declining DA because they will be booted out of ECNL"....this would be a huge story nowhere to be found. Now that DA is around the corner, another player shuffling will start to take place sooner than later, this time around diluting the ECNL and further diluting the talent level in LH (which is already pretty bad with the exception of a team or two). It will be very interesting because the ECNL will still be in play through May, or later if your team qualifies for one of the championships or showcase events held in the June timeframe, making tryouts difficult. You may argue that all 4 DA clubs will just take their current ECNL teams and make these DA, but they will always look for players to enhance their current roster. Another point not to forget that the DA is a "composite" age group, so the DA will be siphoning from two ECNL teams (or LH teams, whatever) versus just converting one.

Once again, need sources...soccerwire, topdrawer...nothing indicating that the ECNL is preparing to "boot" clubs from ECNL that have accepted DA spots. I guess we will wait and see once we get closer to summer.  
Email today from ECNL director, Albion and Challenge have declined DA invite, will stick with ECNL.  All ECNL teams at A and C were told they were not forming Houston United.

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Post by Zizou on 19/11/16, 08:21 am

Challenge and Albion made good decisions DA in my opinion was not for those two clubs.

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Post by SoccerTexas on 20/11/16, 07:11 pm

So all 4 new DA members in Dallas are giving up ECNL?  What other clubs other than DFeeters will pick up ECNL in NTX?

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Post by jogobonito06 on 20/11/16, 08:26 pm

SoccerTexas wrote:So all 4 new DA members in Dallas are giving up ECNL?  What other clubs other than DFeeters will pick up ECNL in NTX?

That is not the case.
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Post by Zizou on 20/11/16, 09:13 pm

They will have DA and ECNL teams.

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Post by Zizou on 20/11/16, 09:15 pm

Why do you think the composite teams were formed? They now have two pools of players to draw a DA team from a and possibly two ECNL teams.

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Post by SoccerTexas on 21/11/16, 08:45 am

Zizou wrote:They will have DA and ECNL teams.

Not doubting you but have you received this info directly from an ECNL doc at Solar/Texans/FCD/Sting?  

The understanding here is ECNL has told their members they have to put their highest level team in ECNL and cant have both DA and ECNL. Rumor is Rush is going to leave ECNL for DA.  Lonestar is still deciding which way they will go.  Albion and Challenge have made their choice to stay in ECNL.

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Post by ItsMeAgain on 21/11/16, 09:11 am

Zizou wrote:They will have DA and ECNL teams.

dont bet on it
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Post by jogobonito06 on 21/11/16, 09:18 am

It's not an either/or proposition. ECNL is demanding some quality baselines be maintained if a club wants to do both. A majority of clubs are unable/unwilling to comply. There will be a huge shake up. Soon.

And a betting man says there won't be 4 DA programs in Dallas
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Post by SoccerTexas on 21/11/16, 09:28 am

jogobonito06 wrote:It's not an either/or proposition.  ECNL is demanding some quality baselines be maintained if a club wants to do both. A majority of clubs are unable/unwilling to comply.  There will be a huge shake up. Soon.

And a betting man says there won't be 4 DA programs in Dallas

So how does a club put their "top" team in two different 10 month leagues? Or is that not what has been told to ECNL members?

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Post by Teufel Hunden on 21/11/16, 09:52 am

jogobonito06 wrote:
It's not an either/or proposition.  ECNL is demanding some quality baselines be maintained if a club wants to do both. A majority of clubs are unable/unwilling to comply.  There will be a huge shake up. Soon.

Again....sources please! If this is the case, it would have been all over the soccer news at a national level. I personally would like some push back from ECNL.
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Post by timmyh on 21/11/16, 10:06 am

Likely wildly inaccurate prediction based on nothing but my own speculation for Texas that will make me look very silly in a couple weeks when this all shakes out:

DA: Dash, Lonestar, Texans, FCD, Solar
ECNL: Albion, Challenge, Classics Elite, Sting, D'Feeters

Sting (gambling that ECNL will still be a major draw for elite players for whom the DA isn't quite a great fit and seeing the writing on the wall that the resources behind the DA teams will be hard to compete with long term) tells ECNL they will drop out of DA and only focus on ECNL on the one condition that ECNL not allow any other Dallas DA team to field their 2nd team in ECNL.  It's a good deal for ECNL to keep an elite national name in North Texas and a good deal for Sting.  ECNL agrees.

Unlikely (though this is apparently what happened in Houston with Challenge and Albion), but would be fun to see it all play out in the next couple years.


Last edited by timmyh on 21/11/16, 10:24 am; edited 5 times in total

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Post by ForReal on 21/11/16, 10:13 am

timmyh wrote:Likely wildly inaccurate prediction based on nothing but speculation for Texas that will make me look very silly in a couple weeks when this all shakes out:

DA: Dash, Lonestar, Texans, FCD, Solar
ECNL: Albion, Challenge, Classics Elite, Sting, D'Feeters

Sting (gambling that ECNL will still be a major draw for elite players for whom the DA isn't quite a great fit) tells ECNL they will drop out of DA and focus on ECNL on the condition that ECNL not allow any other Dallas DA team to field their 2nd team in ECNL.  It's a good deal for ECNL and a good deal for Sting.  ECNL agrees.

If your prediction holds true, then this is possibly the best possible outcome for D'Feeters.

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Post by SoccerTexas on 21/11/16, 10:29 am

timmyh wrote:Likely wildly inaccurate prediction based on nothing but my own speculation for Texas that will make me look very silly in a couple weeks when this all shakes out:

DA: Dash, Lonestar, Texans, FCD, Solar
ECNL: Albion, Challenge, Classics Elite, Sting, D'Feeters

Sting (gambling that ECNL will still be a major draw for elite players for whom the DA isn't quite a great fit and seeing the writing on the wall that the resources behind the DA teams will be hard to compete with long term) tells ECNL they will drop out of DA and only focus on ECNL on the one condition that ECNL not allow any other Dallas DA team to field their 2nd team in ECNL.  It's a good deal for ECNL to keep an elite national name in North Texas and a good deal for Sting.  ECNL agrees.

Unlikely (though this is apparently what happened in Houston with Challenge and Albion), but would be fun to see it all play out in the next couple years.

Yes will be an interesting couple of months.  2 Colorado, 2 KS, 1 OK club also in DA "Frontier Conference" at the moment.  You also left off Texas Rush (might have been intentional).  I cant see a city the size of Austin (2M) not having ECNL but LS has pretty much decimated all other clubs.

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Post by timmyh on 21/11/16, 10:36 am

SoccerTexas wrote:
timmyh wrote:Likely wildly inaccurate prediction based on nothing but my own speculation for Texas that will make me look very silly in a couple weeks when this all shakes out:

DA: Dash, Lonestar, Texans, FCD, Solar
ECNL: Albion, Challenge, Classics Elite, Sting, D'Feeters

Sting (gambling that ECNL will still be a major draw for elite players for whom the DA isn't quite a great fit and seeing the writing on the wall that the resources behind the DA teams will be hard to compete with long term) tells ECNL they will drop out of DA and only focus on ECNL on the one condition that ECNL not allow any other Dallas DA team to field their 2nd team in ECNL.  It's a good deal for ECNL to keep an elite national name in North Texas and a good deal for Sting.  ECNL agrees.

Unlikely (though this is apparently what happened in Houston with Challenge and Albion), but would be fun to see it all play out in the next couple years.

Yes will be an interesting couple of months.  2 Colorado, 2 KS, 1 OK club also in DA "Frontier Conference" at the moment.  You also left off Texas Rush (might have been intentional).  I cant see a city the size of Austin (2M) not having ECNL but LS has pretty much decimated all other clubs.

It looks likely that Rush and Dash are merging (the Dash must likely partner with some Houston club as they have no staff or players currently and are building this from scratch. Rumors are Rush will be the partner and they will play under the Dash banner. Not for certain, but things look to be leaning that way).
I suppose Lonestar might have a big enough player pool to field both a DA and ECNL team, but some are saying that ECNL gave them an ultimatum to drop out of DA.

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Post by timmyh on 21/11/16, 12:46 pm

More unsubstantiated and un-sourced internet rumors, but I suppose that's the point of this site...

TSC to pull out of DA and just be ECNL.

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Post by Big Ern on 21/11/16, 01:47 pm

For what it's worth to this discussion, both FCD and Solar will have both Girl's DA and ECNL next year --

This came from Director level personnel at both Clubs.

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Post by ItsMeAgain on 21/11/16, 02:03 pm

BigErn wrote:For what it's worth to this discussion, both FCD and Solar will have both Girl's DA and ECNL next year --

This came from Director level personnel at both Clubs.

you a gambling man??????????????????????????????????????????
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