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ECNL swings back at DA - Page 16 Empty Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by Lakedad on 10/04/17, 02:01 pm

I still have a hard time with the notion that DA will replace ECNL.

For one, how many kids are committed to giving up all other activities just to play soccer? You're talking 100-120 kids with no guarantee those will be the best kids, particularly in the younger U13-U15 age groups.

ECNL is still in a good spot. There are still quality players that would be willing to take the ECNL route surely for the benefits it presents. If ECNL commits suicide, maybe DA2 fills that gap. Something will need too.

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Post by Zizou on 10/04/17, 02:05 pm

Well it looks like we will have plenty to talk about for the next two years.

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Post by db10 on 10/04/17, 02:13 pm

Lakedad wrote:I still have a hard time with the notion that DA will replace ECNL.  

For one, how many kids are committed to giving up all other activities just to play soccer?  You're talking 100-120 kids with no guarantee those will be the best kids, particularly in the younger U13-U15 age groups.  

ECNL is still in a good spot.  There are still quality players that would be willing to take the ECNL route surely for the benefits it presents.  If ECNL commits suicide, maybe DA2 fills that gap.  Something will need too.
It's not supposed to replace it. It supposed to superceed it.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 02:31 pm

DA needs to come to the table with something worth the sacrifice.  It is there for the boys. Money to be possibly made. Reduced soccer fees. Girls, it just isn't there. Free league, free showcases, free refs, free balls, free Powerade jugs is nice, but hard to justify not letting play other sports. Clubs have the hard part of navigating this and keeping their coffers full. I bet they wish they had a crystal ball.  Hell, I do too! What's to say the girls use the da at the younger ages, u13-u16? When they see they aren't going to make the national team, and are possibly committed to college, then migrate back to ecnl? Play high school, run track, play bball. These sports are less dangerous when everyone is full grown (although still dangerous). Not saying one is going to be better than the other, hell I don't really care. Just looking for info, and maybe different angles that I was not aware of.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 03:05 pm

I truly believe there is a market for both. There are definitely a group of girls out there, for whom the DA structure is tailor made. It's not just the YNT/WNT caliber players, but also other high level players who absolutely eat, sleep, and breathe soccer. Those girls are just salivating at what DA has to offer them.

...but I believe there is also a sizeable demographic of high level players who will be turned off by the restrictions of DA, and will want the flexibility that ECNL currently provides, while still giving them a highly competitive platform.

IMO, this is all going to come down to college recruiting, and the interesting thing is that it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg scenario. The college coaches are going to go where the talent is, but the talent is going to go where the college coaches are. Right now, I think it's kind of a guessing game on both sides. If the D1 programs find that they can make the time to scout both DA and ECNL, then both will survive and thrive. However, if either the colleges or the recruits get the sense that one group is favoring one path over the other, then that path will establish dominance.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 03:18 pm

I agree. Just sucks they cannot all play together. If they both stay relavent, lots of discussion of who beats who, with no way to duke it out. But you are right. The path to college is the golden ticket. Who controls that, controls the top league. Hence all the ecnl propaganda lately.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 03:30 pm

fireman1594 wrote:I agree. Just sucks they cannot all play together.

Meh. With regional and national play, this isn't a necessity.

fireman1594 wrote:If they both stay relavent, lots of discussion of who beats who, with no way to duke it out.

This is only for over-involved, socially underdeveloped parents like you and me.

fireman1594 wrote:The path to college is the golden ticket. Who controls that, controls the top league.

No single league has to control this. Both paths just need to prove that they can be viable pipelines for D1 caliber players.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 03:35 pm

One thing is certain, although competition usually drives price down or more bang for your buck, the clubs are not going to let that happen, lol. Who will be the first club to announce new fee structure? If there is any? Sting said in the beginning DA was going to cost the same as ECNL. I did not quite understand this, with league and showcases being free. Maybe the 2 extra practices canceled that out. They seemed to be steering everyone toward wanting ecnl, mooooooo. Texans website says "reduced fee". I have not heard anything else. I have heard FC Dallas boys DA is fully funded, when the others in the area that are not? Of course they have the top boys program, in part, due to free. There is more to it than that, but it's a good selling point. Does having the top DA team correlate to attracting more players/teams that do pay? Where is the break over? My guess is they all have their calculators out now running the scenarios.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 03:43 pm

Posted this on a different thread about 10 days ago...

Here's some rough back-of-the-envelope math...

Based on the latest info I have regarding age groups and roster sizes for GDA, you are talking roughly 85 GDA players at a club. Currently, those 85 players are all paying roughly $3k per year in dues, which amounts to roughly $250k in revenue for the club.

Now, let's say that a club has 85 non-DA select teams. In order to fully fund just the dues portion of the 85 DA players, and have a zero sum impact on club revenue, the club would have to increase the dues for every player on those 85 teams by roughly $200 per year. If the club only has ~60 non-DA select teams, it's roughly $300 per player, if the club only has ~40 non-DA select teams, it's $400 per year.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 03:51 pm

Sooooo, what are you trying to say...I shouldn't put away my checkbook just yet. Shocked

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Post by ForReal on 10/04/17, 03:54 pm

Cleansheets wrote:Sooooo, what are you trying to say...I shouldn't put away my checkbook just yet. Shocked

You can according to BigErn if you'll just cut out your Starbucks and premium cable movie packages.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 03:58 pm

Well then, if Big E says it's true then it is.

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Post by 2_cents_worth on 10/04/17, 04:07 pm

So if my DD plays for FCD, Solar, or Dallas Texans and doesn't get selected for DA, why wouldn't I move her to Sting where I pay less in club fees?
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Post by KeeperCommander on 10/04/17, 04:08 pm

2_cents_worth wrote:So if my DD plays for FCD, Solar, or Dallas Texans and doesn't get selected for DA, why wouldn't I move her to Sting where I pay less in club fees?
Ding Ding Ding

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Post by NoSpinZone on 10/04/17, 04:13 pm

bwgophers wrote:
Now, let's say that a club has 85 non-DA select teams. In order to fully fund just the dues portion of the 85 DA players, and have a zero sum impact on club revenue, the club would have to increase the dues for every player on those 85 teams by roughly $200 per year. If the club only has ~60 non-DA select teams, it's roughly $300 per player, if the club only has ~40 non-DA select teams, it's $400 per year.

and yall have been making fun of FCD and all the rec teams they have. FCD just ahead of the game and knows how to fund their Da program.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 04:16 pm

I'm tired. My Unicorn looks unhappy and I'm losing sleep over it.

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Post by SoccerTexas on 10/04/17, 04:29 pm

2_cents_worth wrote:So if my DD plays for FCD, Solar, or Dallas Texans and doesn't get selected for DA, why wouldn't I move her to Sting where I pay less in club fees?

And that is the whole point of DA2.  DA clubs cant afford to not have a league for their second teams to play in.  Eventually it will be either DA or ECNL.  If ECNL is the second tier, DA clubs will lose their paying players in U13 to U19 to ECNL clubs. DA clubs need MORE revenue not less. DA clubs will not be in the business of turning away player$ to other clubs.  Just like US Soccer was forced to split out the U14 and U15 age groups based on their member clubs demanding it, they will be forced to recognize DA2 so their member clubs can generate enough revenue to have any attempt at funding DA.  Otherwise they again have to use ECNL to generate revenue.

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Post by SoccerTexas on 10/04/17, 04:35 pm

bwgophers wrote:

A lot of people talking like DA2 is a foregone conclusion for the NTX DA clubs.  It will be interesting to see how that works out.  If my kid wasn't good enough to be in DA, then why the hell do I want to pay an extra $1-2k/year to make plane trips to Colo & KC for league matches?  If my kid is a step below DA, she can get all the exposure she needs playing in ECNL and making road trips to Tulsa and SA instead.

If you exclude the Colo & KC clubs, then DA2 would only be 5 clubs in TX.  That's not much of a league schedule.

Because its about giving the DA clubs an option to continue their revenue streams for their 2nd teams.  If the DA clubs dont have ECNL to offer, they will need to offer DA2 to keep paying customers.  The promise of similar training, HS play allowed, call ups to DA team, younger age group in the dual age group teams with a place to play, etc.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 04:42 pm

Lol, Sting is not going to pass that savings on to you silly rabbit. They will charge the same and claim they are that much better. While stuffing their pockets. The elephant in the room for me, and has always been, the lack of worthy coaches for our precious dd's. I hear TI-85's are flying off the shelf, trying to figure this out.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 04:54 pm

Once again, I think girls DA could be fixed or at least seem more appealing by simply allowing outside sports. Free league, free showcases, free refs, clubs can pocket even more money. Now the skills coaches around dfw may not be happy with the 4 practices template. Seems the biggest difference in revenue was 1 less team. DA = 4, ECNL was 5. DA gave in and added the 4th. ECNL went for jugular with now 6, and boys. Will we see a "Titans" resurgence to keep the gravy flowing? If DA wanted to kick ecnl, from the get go, should have allowed outside sports, and allowed 5 teams, so revenue was tit for tat for ecnl clubs. As always, imho.

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 05:01 pm

SoccerTexas wrote:
bwgophers wrote:

A lot of people talking like DA2 is a foregone conclusion for the NTX DA clubs.  It will be interesting to see how that works out.  If my kid wasn't good enough to be in DA, then why the hell do I want to pay an extra $1-2k/year to make plane trips to Colo & KC for league matches?  If my kid is a step below DA, she can get all the exposure she needs playing in ECNL and making road trips to Tulsa and SA instead.

If you exclude the Colo & KC clubs, then DA2 would only be 5 clubs in TX.  That's not much of a league schedule.

Because its about giving the DA clubs an option to continue their revenue streams for their 2nd teams.  If the DA clubs dont have ECNL to offer, they will need to offer DA2 to keep paying customers.  The promise of similar training, HS play allowed, call ups to DA team, younger age group in the dual age group teams with a place to play, etc.

USSF can "give" the DA clubs all they want, but unless they are going to "give" the DA clubs significant $$ in order to even up the value proposition between DA2 and ECNL, DA2 will struggle to find a footing in the Southwest Conference of DA.

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Post by PowerKick on 10/04/17, 05:02 pm

2_cents_worth wrote:So if my DD plays for FCD, Solar, or Dallas Texans and doesn't get selected for DA, why wouldn't I move her to Sting where I pay less in club fees?

You may ask the same question to yourself now, why don't move to d'feeters?

Sting will be the next d'feeters. Majority of the talents will move to Big3, even if just for DA2 hoping to get a spot in DA the next year.

This ripple effect will spread into all age groups, especially the the younger U16 and below because every kid has a dream to go to DA and play D1. As a result Sting will lose all their top teams and eventually become a 2nd tier club just like d'feeters right now, could be a good acquisition target though.

We can come back in 3 years to see what happens.

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Post by PowerKick on 10/04/17, 05:08 pm

bwgophers wrote:
USSF can "give" the DA clubs all they want, but unless they are going to "give" the DA clubs significant $$ in order to even up the value proposition between DA2 and ECNL, DA2 will struggle to find a footing in the Southwest Conference of DA.

DA2 league with 5 or 6 clubs in Texas would be perfect for a lot of girls and parents.

No too much travel, play high school sports, and still have a chance for potential DA, what else one would ask for?

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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 05:10 pm

fireman1594 wrote:Once again, I think girls DA could be fixed or at least seem more appealing by simply allowing outside sports.

As I understand it, it's slightly more complicated than "just allowing outside sports". DA would have to back off on it's mandate of 4 training sessions/week, with minimal absences allowed. Otherwise, participating in another sport or activity still is not realistic for all but a very, very few.

Of course, if USSF backs off of the mandated training schedule, then what's the difference between DA and ECNL, and why bother with it in the first place?

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Post by jogobonito06 on 10/04/17, 05:17 pm

PowerKick wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
USSF can "give" the DA clubs all they want, but unless they are going to "give" the DA clubs significant $$ in order to even up the value proposition between DA2 and ECNL, DA2 will struggle to find a footing in the Southwest Conference of DA.

DA2 league with 5 or 6 clubs in Texas would be perfect for a lot of girls and parents.

No too much travel, play high school sports, and still have a chance for potential DA, what else one would ask for?

English skills?
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Post by Guest on 10/04/17, 05:19 pm

PowerKick wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
USSF can "give" the DA clubs all they want, but unless they are going to "give" the DA clubs significant $$ in order to even up the value proposition between DA2 and ECNL, DA2 will struggle to find a footing in the Southwest Conference of DA.

DA2 league with 5 or 6 clubs in Texas would be perfect for a lot of girls and parents.

No too much travel, play high school sports, and still have a chance for potential DA, what else one would ask for?

If they can do that and still manage to get the college coach exposure that they would get playing ECNL instead, then it has a chance to work.

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