Re: ECNL swings back at DA

by Guest 11/04/17, 10:27 am

DDdad wrote:I believe that they said in the Sting meeting that Slammers was making the same decision as Sting. And to be sure, it was not a Sting decision but a player decision. Sting asked and the overwhelming answer was that the players did not want to play DA and without fielding a team in every age group, you can not field a team in any. I can't imagine that girls at Sting feel dramatically different than girls at other clubs. Maybe the others just have not been asked yet. I know there was some consternation at Sting in the older age groups as to who would be selected for DA and it was not "yay, I might get picked." but more like "I really hope they don't expect me to play DA.". Might be some fallout at the other 3 clubs, especially at the older age groups.

While not being allowed to play other sports has been mentioned, I heard from most of the girls I spoke with that home work was a major consideration. When you don't get how until 9:30 or 10:00 and you have not eaten or showered and you have 3-4 hours of work to do before you go to bed and you are expected to do that 4 nights a week, it was viewed as too much. ECNL was providing the college views that most needed. Of the 5 ECNL team in NT in each age group, how many were playing on a National Team or in a NT pool? Per age group... 4? 5? For the remaining players, exactly what is the additional benefit? Someone mentioned above that the bottom half of ECNL was fairly weak. True enough. There are certainly conferences and the bottoms of many conferences that were consistently weaker than others. Gophers brought up the point that more of DA moving forward is made up of non ECNL clubs than what remaining in ECNL. If the talent pool faded for the bottom half of ECNL, the same or or more will have to be true of DA. Certainly you can expect NT, SoCal etc to field strong teams but is the overall caliber of play really going to change? It really seems that the overlap of clubs is actually minimal with far more going one direction or another. It would not surprise me at all that those 18 are forced to decide one way or another in the next year and you will end up with 2 leagues. After all, no Club can field two "Number 1 " teams. One league or the other will get the Number 2 and they won't be happy about it.

In my opinion, Sting's mind was made up way before the survey. It was sold as "why would anyone want da". As stated earlier, they are the only club that I am aware of that is/was advertising da would cost the same as ecnl. They also polled the current ecnl players, who mostly have all already tasted high school soccer and have committed of close to committing to colleges. Why would they pick da really? Who cares if in a year or two if it is the top league in the country with the most scouts showing up, best coaches, practicing with the top talent. I think Sting wanted this outcome, and helped steer it there. Maybe the DOC being on the board of directors for ecnl clouded judgement, who knows. Their race to run, they laid down their poker hand. I have an '06 also, and if they were polled, I think it would have been a much different outcome. It is all still to be determined, but if ecnl does become a "b" league, there is no way it is worth spending 8-10,000 a year on. There is enough talent in dfw to pull off a "b" league and get the exposure those kids need to get to the colleges they want. A dfw b team is only doing Austin, Tulsa favors in traveling.

One flaw of ecnl, in my opinion, is it is driven by the win, except coaches. In regards to playing time, I witnessed multiple league ecnl games where starters played 100% of minutes of an 80 minute game. Head scratcher really. Creates a dog eat dog environment on team. In my opinion, the da seems to be more about the developing of an entire team. If I was a club, I would hang my hat on relationships with college coaches and getting my kids there. Skins on the wall do not equate to this. I guess it attracts a certain demographic, but myself not included.

by TatonkaBurger 11/04/17, 10:41 am

fireman1594 wrote:In my opinion, the da seems to be more about the developing of an entire team.

Interesting take. How many DA games have you witnessed to give you the sense that DA is more about developing an entire team? Or was it in the press releases? Or was it in the rumors?

Just curious.

by 5050Ball 11/04/17, 10:57 am

TatonkaBurger wrote:
fireman1594 wrote:In my opinion, the da seems to be more about the developing of an entire team.

Interesting take. How many DA games have you witnessed to give you the sense that DA is more about developing an entire team? Or was it in the press releases? Or was it in the rumors?

Just curious.

The stated goal of DA is to find players for USWNT. The DA clubs will really only have interest in truly developing the very few they think have a shot. They need everyone else because you can't play 1 v 11.

by Guest 11/04/17, 11:05 am

TatonkaBurger wrote:
fireman1594 wrote:In my opinion, the da seems to be more about the developing of an entire team.

Interesting take. How many DA games have you witnessed to give you the sense that DA is more about developing an entire team? Or was it in the press releases? Or was it in the rumors?

Just curious.

Well, I have to say no da experience at all, but my interpretation is you get to start 25% of time, and get to play until at least the first designated sub time. This is more pt than multiple rostered ecnl girls I witnessed this year. I guess both can be abused. What I am here for, to be enlightened.

by Guest 11/04/17, 11:08 am

5050Ball wrote:
TatonkaBurger wrote:
fireman1594 wrote:In my opinion, the da seems to be more about the developing of an entire team.

Interesting take. How many DA games have you witnessed to give you the sense that DA is more about developing an entire team? Or was it in the press releases? Or was it in the rumors?

Just curious.

The stated goal of DA is to find players for USWNT. The DA clubs will really only have interest in truly developing the very few they think have a shot. They need everyone else because you can't play 1 v 11.

Agree whole heartedly, but the top .05% need to train with the top 10% to get better. Training against, say a top 40% girl, really does that player no good.

by TatonkaBurger 11/04/17, 11:13 am

fireman1594 wrote:
TatonkaBurger wrote:
fireman1594 wrote:In my opinion, the da seems to be more about the developing of an entire team.

Interesting take. How many DA games have you witnessed to give you the sense that DA is more about developing an entire team? Or was it in the press releases? Or was it in the rumors?

Just curious.
Well, I have to say no da experience at all, but my interpretation is you get to start 25% of time, and get to play until at least the first designated sub time. This is more pt than multiple rostered ecnl girls I witnessed this year. I guess both can be abused. What I am here for, to be enlightened.

I hear you. I was just pointing out that DA continues to be a moving target given the changing information we all continue to receive. And the fact that it has not even started yet. It is talking the good talk but let's see how it walks when it finally shows up.

by Guest 11/04/17, 11:17 am

TatonkaBurger wrote:
fireman1594 wrote:
TatonkaBurger wrote:
fireman1594 wrote:In my opinion, the da seems to be more about the developing of an entire team.

Interesting take. How many DA games have you witnessed to give you the sense that DA is more about developing an entire team? Or was it in the press releases? Or was it in the rumors?

Just curious.
Well, I have to say no da experience at all, but my interpretation is you get to start 25% of time, and get to play until at least the first designated sub time. This is more pt than multiple rostered ecnl girls I witnessed this year. I guess both can be abused. What I am here for, to be enlightened.

I hear you. I was just pointing out that DA continues to be a moving target given the changing information we all continue to receive. And the fact that it has not even started yet. It is talking the good talk but let's see how it walks when it finally shows up.

Agree. You have to peel away the layers of the onion, to get the TRUE intentions of all of the rules, and how clubs can manipulate it.

by Guest101 11/04/17, 12:08 pm

TatonkaBurger wrote:
If USSF is the governing body and the most powerful soccer organization in the land, then why did it not have all of the details worked out from the beginning? Why has it appeared to change course multiple times? Why do we hear a mixed message about playing high school sports? Why is it having to be reactionary to the "2nd tier" league? It should have a plan, implement it and not care what others think or do.

USSF did have all the details worked out. Once they published their plan, they immediately started making concessions in order to keep clubs on board. Having a viable option in ECNL and US Club, forces GDA to negotiate. This shows you how limited the USSF control is over clubs. Just as I stated in a previous post, clubs want control to make their own decisions on what they feel is best for their players.
Once DOCs stop getting their way they will either go back to ECNL or start a new league that gives complete control to their coaches (see ECNL, Champions League, Composite League, JDL, etc.)

TatonkaBurger wrote:
So I wonder why any of us should have any confidence in USSF and that they will pull this off and be able to deliver on DA?

Yes, USSF clearly knows how to best develop female soccer players. Just look at their current USWNT roster.......

MYTH OF THE “FAILED AMERICAN SYSTEM”
One myth popular with those who criticize high school play and the American youth system is that the U.S. cannot grow into a leading soccer nation without year-round club soccer. However, a quick look at the roster of the 2015 World Cup-winning United States women’s national team dispels that notion. Of the 23 players on that roster, 21 played high school soccer. And anyone who thinks that this stat only represents an older generation of players is ignoring the facts.

The U.S.’ current roster is full of young, technical players who played high school soccer—and other sports. The vast majority of those players did not play full-year club soccer and many even played multiple high school sports.

Morgan Brian, who won the Golden Ball at the 2016 CONCACAF Olympic qualifying tournament, played high school soccer. So did Christen Press, who over the past year has scored some of the most technically impressive goals in U.S. soccer history.

Tobin Heath and Lauren Holiday, widely regarded as the two most technical players in the last World Cup cycle, both played high school soccer. So did Becky Sauerbrunn, who many regard as the best defender in the world.

For good measure, add in American stars Alex Morgan, Carli Lloyd (the reigning FIFA World Player of the Year), Ali Krieger, and Kelley O’Hara—all of whom played at the high school level. Mallory Pugh, the 17-year-old phenom who recently broke into the national team, plays high school soccer, as did Emily Sonnett, the No. 1 pick in this year’s NWSL draft.

To produce world-class players, the American system does not need to be a year-round club system. Nor does it need to be a soccer-only system.

What a first half from Mallory Pugh. #USWNT pic.twitter.com/Dw0IwP5t6Y

— John D. Halloran (@JohnDHalloran) February 16, 2016

Abby Wambach, the world’s all-time international goal-scorer, built a career on her aerial prowess. However, she doesn’t credit that success to her youth soccer days—she says it came about from playing basketball. “Learning the timing of your jump, learning the trajectory of the ball coming off the rim, all those things play a massive role,” Wambach told USA Today during the 2015 World Cup.

Brian played four years of high school basketball and won All-State honors on the hardwood. Press lettered in track and tennis. Morgan ran varsity track and played volleyball.

Lauren Holiday also played varsity basketball. In the same USA Today article, Holiday added this: “Having that variety is an awesome thing and I would encourage any young athlete or parent not to restrict themselves. Doing different things develops different parts of your body. It can help prevent injuries and definitely help prevent burnout.”

FULL ARTICLE - http://americansoccernow.com/articles/ussf-s-girl-s-development-academy-has-it-all-wrong

by SoccerTexas 11/04/17, 12:34 pm

TatonkaBurger wrote:I have said that it will take time to for DA to establish itself but it will inevitably become the top league. It is run by the top soccer org in the country and the goal is to get the best talent together to make the USWNT. But that means it will have to be more exclusive. 4 NTX teams was way too many teams, and 3 probably still is. Once they realize this in 3 years, then it will happen and be what it was proposed to be. Or I guess it will totally fail...

What worries me the most is that USSF and DA is still being reactionary. First we heard that DA was mixed age groups starting at u14. Now it will only be mixed age groups in the 17/18 year. No wait, it will be 16/17 and 17/18. Now it appears that DA2 is being put together in order to combat ECNL and its stance to fight DA.

If USSF is the governing body and the most powerful soccer organization in the land, then why did it not have all of the details worked out from the beginning? Why has it appeared to change course multiple times? Why do we hear a mixed message about playing high school sports? Why is it having to be reactionary to the "2nd tier" league? It should have a plan, implement it and not care what others think or do.

So I wonder why any of us should have any confidence in USSF and that they will pull this off and be able to deliver on DA?

This one is easy. Pride/Ego trump sanity. USSF ideally only wanted to deal with NWSL or MLS clubs with deep pockets. They despise having to work with and be dependent on youth clubs. They quickly found out, even the DA league doesnt work without the parents footing the majority of the bills. If DA is fully funded, USSF and by extension the DA member club can fully dictate the rules to players. Once either USSF/DA club is dependent on parent payments, the power shifts. Clubs want control over their revenue streams to continue to pay/retain coaches, lease facilites, etc and focus on the 97% of their customers that are not DA. USSF doesnt care AT ALL about those issues and the 97%, other than their cut of annual registration fees of course.

by Guest101 11/04/17, 12:52 pm

SoccerTexas wrote:
This one is easy. Pride/Ego trump sanity. USSF ideally only wanted to deal with NWSL or MLS clubs with deep pockets. They despise having to work with and be dependent on youth clubs. They quickly found out, even the DA league doesnt work without the parents footing the majority of the bills. If DA is fully funded, USSF and by extension the DA member club can fully dictate the rules to players. Once either USSF/DA club is dependent on parent payments, the power shifts. Clubs want control over their revenue streams to continue to pay/retain coaches, lease facilites, etc and focus on the 97% of their customers that are not DA. USSF doesnt care AT ALL about those issues and the 97%, other than their cut of annual registration fees of course.

Bingo!! They are not here to develop players. They are here to develop teams, namely the USMNT and USWNT.

by Foxysoccermom 11/04/17, 02:08 pm

Guest101 wrote:
TatonkaBurger wrote:
If USSF is the governing body and the most powerful soccer organization in the land, then why did it not have all of the details worked out from the beginning? Why has it appeared to change course multiple times? Why do we hear a mixed message about playing high school sports? Why is it having to be reactionary to the "2nd tier" league? It should have a plan, implement it and not care what others think or do.

USSF did have all the details worked out. Once they published their plan, they immediately started making concessions in order to keep clubs on board. Having a viable option in ECNL and US Club, forces GDA to negotiate. This shows you how limited the USSF control is over clubs. Just as I stated in a previous post, clubs want control to make their own decisions on what they feel is best for their players.
Once DOCs stop getting their way they will either go back to ECNL or start a new league that gives complete control to their coaches (see ECNL, Champions League, Composite League, JDL, etc.)

TatonkaBurger wrote:
So I wonder why any of us should have any confidence in USSF and that they will pull this off and be able to deliver on DA?

Yes, USSF clearly knows how to best develop female soccer players. Just look at their current USWNT roster.......

MYTH OF THE “FAILED AMERICAN SYSTEM”
One myth popular with those who criticize high school play and the American youth system is that the U.S. cannot grow into a leading soccer nation without year-round club soccer. However, a quick look at the roster of the 2015 World Cup-winning United States women’s national team dispels that notion. Of the 23 players on that roster, 21 played high school soccer. And anyone who thinks that this stat only represents an older generation of players is ignoring the facts.

The U.S.’ current roster is full of young, technical players who played high school soccer—and other sports. The vast majority of those players did not play full-year club soccer and many even played multiple high school sports.

Morgan Brian, who won the Golden Ball at the 2016 CONCACAF Olympic qualifying tournament, played high school soccer. So did Christen Press, who over the past year has scored some of the most technically impressive goals in U.S. soccer history.

Tobin Heath and Lauren Holiday, widely regarded as the two most technical players in the last World Cup cycle, both played high school soccer. So did Becky Sauerbrunn, who many regard as the best defender in the world.

For good measure, add in American stars Alex Morgan, Carli Lloyd (the reigning FIFA World Player of the Year), Ali Krieger, and Kelley O’Hara—all of whom played at the high school level. Mallory Pugh, the 17-year-old phenom who recently broke into the national team, plays high school soccer, as did Emily Sonnett, the No. 1 pick in this year’s NWSL draft.

To produce world-class players, the American system does not need to be a year-round club system. Nor does it need to be a soccer-only system.

What a first half from Mallory Pugh. #USWNT pic.twitter.com/Dw0IwP5t6Y

— John D. Halloran (@JohnDHalloran) February 16, 2016

Abby Wambach, the world’s all-time international goal-scorer, built a career on her aerial prowess. However, she doesn’t credit that success to her youth soccer days—she says it came about from playing basketball. “Learning the timing of your jump, learning the trajectory of the ball coming off the rim, all those things play a massive role,” Wambach told USA Today during the 2015 World Cup.

Brian played four years of high school basketball and won All-State honors on the hardwood. Press lettered in track and tennis. Morgan ran varsity track and played volleyball.

Lauren Holiday also played varsity basketball. In the same USA Today article, Holiday added this: “Having that variety is an awesome thing and I would encourage any young athlete or parent not to restrict themselves. Doing different things develops different parts of your body. It can help prevent injuries and definitely help prevent burnout.”

FULL ARTICLE - http://americansoccernow.com/articles/ussf-s-girl-s-development-academy-has-it-all-wrong

You have to make up a problem to gain control. Then the masses will follow.

by RightWingDad 11/04/17, 02:12 pm

Hummm, who was it that said "never let a good crisis go to waste"?

by tpitty 12/04/17, 10:39 am

TatonkaBurger wrote:
fireman1594 wrote:In my opinion, the da seems to be more about the developing of an entire team.

Interesting take. How many DA games have you witnessed to give you the sense that DA is more about developing an entire team? Or was it in the press releases? Or was it in the rumors?

Just curious.

I have witnessed 2 years of DA games, and DA training sessions. DA is definitely more about developing players.

by TatonkaBurger 12/04/17, 11:34 am

tpitty wrote:
TatonkaBurger wrote:
fireman1594 wrote:In my opinion, the da seems to be more about the developing of an entire team.

Interesting take. How many DA games have you witnessed to give you the sense that DA is more about developing an entire team? Or was it in the press releases? Or was it in the rumors?

Just curious.

I have witnessed 2 years of DA games, and DA training sessions. DA is definitely more about developing players.

Sure you have. The boys side, that has been around for about a decade. Hopefully GDA jumps right in and follows suit.

by tpitty 12/04/17, 11:37 am

I hope they do too, however since the end game isn't the same I am not so sure the path should be either.

My question is whether the effort is validated by the result on the girls side.

I guess each player/parent will have to weigh that out for themselves.

by Offsidepacman 24/04/17, 02:25 pm

so sting austin does in fact get the allocation
http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2017/04/24/ecnl-welcomes-austin-sting-as-new-member-club-in-2017/

this is their list of teams
https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/club.aspx?ClubID=23613

thats right, ecnl just accepted the membership of a club with zero current u13, u14 teams and only one team as a high level (02 plays USYS NL)

need any further proof ecnl is toast?

by ForReal 24/04/17, 02:34 pm

PacmanJr00 wrote:so sting austin does in fact get the allocation
http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2017/04/24/ecnl-welcomes-austin-sting-as-new-member-club-in-2017/

this is their list of teams
https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/club.aspx?ClubID=23613

thats right, ecnl just accepted the membership of a club with zero current u13, u14 teams and only one team as a high level (02 plays USYS NL)

need any further proof ecnl is toast?

But isn't Lonestar going only DA? So Sting Austin is the only Austin ECNL team?

by timmyh 24/04/17, 02:44 pm

Wow. So Sting indeed dropped the DA in Dallas in return for ECNL giving them a team in Austin.

Just in case anyone ever wondered if a soccer club is more of a business or a charity...I give you Exhibit A.
Wonder if a club might prioritize making some extra money at the expense of what's best for their kids?...I will again refer you to Exhibit A.

by Offsidepacman 24/04/17, 02:59 pm

ForReal wrote:

But isn't Lonestar going only DA? So Sting Austin is the only Austin ECNL team?

Correct. Sting Austin is in worse shape here than D'Feeters is in Dallas.

https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/club.aspx?ClubID=1613 - D'Feeters team

Only problem is there are no clubs for Sting Austin to farm out whole age groups like the Feet have done.

by ForReal 24/04/17, 03:00 pm

PacmanJr00 wrote:
ForReal wrote:

But isn't Lonestar going only DA? So Sting Austin is the only Austin ECNL team?

Correct. Sting Austin is in worse shape here than D'Feeters is in Dallas.

https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/club.aspx?ClubID=1613 - D'Feeters team

Only problem is there are no clubs for Sting Austin to farm out whole age groups like the Feet have done.

True, but I suspect there are several players that won't make Lonestar DA or choose not to play DA. Will be interesting to see if Sting can put together much of an Austin program.

by Zizou 24/04/17, 03:06 pm

Lone star dropping ECNL just gave Sting the in they needed in building a club in Austin. Lone star has manufactured very little in their time of exclusivity. ECNL and sting will be looking to take over in Austin.

by go99 24/04/17, 03:09 pm

So guess all that smoke ecnl blew at LP was just BS.

by Zizou 24/04/17, 03:09 pm

Yep, used them until they did not need them any longer.

by Zizou 24/04/17, 03:11 pm

i bet the deal here in Dallas was not to as any new girls ECNL clubs.

by Offsidepacman 24/04/17, 03:17 pm

Zizou wrote:Lone star dropping ECNL just gave Sting the in they needed in building a club in Austin. Lone star has manufactured very little in their time of exclusivity. ECNL and sting will be looking to take over in Austin.

Certainly, that is the case. Austin deserves competition.

But, one would expect ECNL to at least require a club to have a team in age groups.

Sting Austin doesn't even have Academy aged girls teams, nor a u11 (they list one in gotsoccer but the team doesn't exist), u13, u14 team. The u12 team plays in almost the lowest league available here in STX, which is rec level in NTX.

ECNL and Sting Dallas are essentially banking on league status to BUILD a club.

by KeeperCommander 24/04/17, 03:22 pm

I am of the opinion that DA will succeed given its due time to be implemented. The questions that all these clubs are asking themselves......
What if I can not field the teams that USSDA wants me to or what if I can not fund it the way I should be able to in the model? Now what do I do? Gamble either way.

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