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Will ECNL survive?

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Post by Big Ern 07/01/18, 12:19 pm

UTrippin wrote:I have heard stories about some of the smaller clubs who's top players didn't make ODP, yet girls who hardly get playing tome on the same team, were selected to ODP.  Hearing it is a conspiracy theory to drive the better players to one of the Big 5.....if we can still call it that.

Speaking of, "if you had read" -- I am 100% guilty of that here ^ ...

This is up there with the best of 'em when it comes to pure entertainment value.  Assuming you are under the impression that making an ODP team here in NTX is a impressive feat, you're contradicting your own argument here.  The really priceless part is your 'conspiracy theory' contention ... As if any of the bigs spend a single second even thinking of ODP, let alone being concerned that it will keep players away.  

You'd have to go back a decade or so for this to be true --

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Post by Zizou 07/01/18, 12:30 pm

I’m going to give trippin a pass that he is trying to create conversation. The creation of ECNL was the death of ODP and LHGCL. The creation of DA will be the demise of LHGCL and ODP at the elite level and a demotion of ECNL to a second tier league. The funny thing is is now ECNL and LHGCL are duel rostering players giving those players a expensive national platform. You got the money honey you will be given the time.

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Post by Medicine Man 07/01/18, 01:01 pm

DA has devalued the old system Zizou from what I can tell so far w the market and the cash flow. What happens in the recruiting hierarchy beyond DA time will tell.

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Post by UTrippin 07/01/18, 02:07 pm

Not quit a decade ago, but it was 6ish years ago I believe.

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Post by UTrippin 07/01/18, 02:12 pm

The only good thing left about LH is the road to SRPL which is then an opportunity to get into National League. Especially if your daughter doesn't play for one the the Dark Side clubs. If you are lucky enough to get a good group of girls to stick together and not buy into the DA or ECNL paths, then you have a really good chance at getting into National League which has hundreds of college coaches at their events as well.

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Post by Medicine Man 07/01/18, 02:30 pm

There's always a risk w any investment that's for sure.

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Post by Zizou 07/01/18, 03:49 pm

UTrippin wrote:The only good thing left about LH is the road to SRPL which is then an opportunity to get into National League. Especially if your daughter doesn't play for one the the Dark Side clubs. If you are lucky enough to get a good group of girls to stick together and not buy into the DA or ECNL paths, then you have a really good chance at getting into National League which has hundreds of college coaches at their events as well.

Their a reason that talented players flock to these large clubs. Many years before us they have been developing players and will continue many years after you and I have moved on. Success does not make one the dark side. If a player is capable of playing at a higher level as a coach and a parent she should be promoted and allowed to move on and compete.

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Post by Medicine Man 07/01/18, 05:51 pm

Zizou were you a professor in college. You were a macro economics expert talking about a perfect world. That's not soccer. Your statement does sound pretty though. Tell us more.

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Pay to play isn't picky if you have cash money! There's always more spots to fill in the ponzi scheme. The layers keep expanding and the facts get skewed.

Watch "Frankie Goes To Hollywood - Relax (Laser Version)" on YouTube
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Post by Big Ern 07/01/18, 06:03 pm

Zizou is on the right track here --

These so called "dark side" clubs are larger not because they've done or are doing anything devious, but because they generally have either fantastic facilities and/or great coaching.  

Having coached for smaller clubs in the past and still having friends that do, I am a fan of  them and what they have to offer ... Whether big or small, most clubs serve a significant purpose.  

That being said trippin ... USYS NL is unfortunately suffering the same fate as ODP and LH.  All of the naysayers can lean on the past as a crutch, but a slow death is inevitable when it comes to the level of college recruitment at the NL events (see blurb from DMN article above).  Sad

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Post by Guest 07/01/18, 06:33 pm

Dark Side= “Whatever side you’re not on”

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Post by Big Ern 07/01/18, 06:57 pm

JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:Dark Side= “Whatever side you’re not on”

^ 100% on the contrary to what I just wrote ... but alllrighty.

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Post by Medicine Man 07/01/18, 07:08 pm

ECNL will still be around just like the other platforms. You will see many of the same faces come and go over time. Enjoy the adventure.

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Watch "Frankie Goes To Hollywood - Relax (Laser Version)" on YouTube
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Post by Guest 07/01/18, 08:10 pm

Big Ern wrote:
JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:Dark Side= “Whatever side you’re not on”

^ 100% on the contrary to what I just wrote ... but alllrighty.

I honestly didn’t read what you wrote(until now)...but how Sway? How was that contrary to what you wrote?

I wasn’t specifically referencing “Dark Side Clubs”...I was more or less defining the term “Dark Side.”

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Post by Zizou 07/01/18, 09:15 pm

Medicine Man wrote:DA has devalued the old system Zizou from what I can tell so far w the market and the cash flow. What happens in the recruiting hierarchy beyond DA time will tell.

No, ECNL devalued the old system.

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Post by UTrippin 07/01/18, 09:32 pm

Their a reason that talented players flock to these large clubs. Many years before us they have been developing players and will continue many years after you and I have moved on. Success does not make one the dark side. If a player is capable of playing at a higher level as a coach and a parent she should be promoted and allowed to move on and compete.

There are also reasons really good players don't go to these clubs in the first place, but I understand most do and I understand why.

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Post by Medicine Man 08/01/18, 06:24 am

Lots of options to pay and play pick your pleasure be trippn.

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Watch "Frankie Goes To Hollywood - Relax (Laser Version)" on YouTube
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Post by SickofStupidity 08/01/18, 08:05 am

Big Ern wrote:
UTrippin wrote:I only read a few pages of this thread so forgive me if this has already been brought up. DA and ECNL are not the end all be all, to play soccer in college. Plenty of players I know that play LH, or as some refer to as Rec. Soccer, have received college offers. We all know there are non ECNL teams that can whoop up on ECNL teams. Not all ECNL teams are good. I have only seen one DA team play and it was a scrimmage against a D1 LH team and it was a very close game with the DA team winning 3-2. I don't want you to think that I don't believe that DA does not have the top players. I am positive they do. I guess my thinking is even though the DA is so new on the girls side, all you have to do is look at the Men's National team to see that the design may be flawed. Someone mentioned that 99.9% of DA players, won't make the National Team. I would add several 9's to that number. I am all for setting goals and getting after it. I just believe that our daughters continue to play this game because it is fun. Not getting to play high school soccer doesn't seem like fun to me and I am sure many girls in the DA program feel the same way. If your daughter is good, colleges will find her.....the National team will find her. I saw on this forum that a girl that plays in Plano or Arlington, committed to West Virginia. WEST VIRGINIA!!! You don't have to have a DA or ECNL patch on your jersey to make your soccer dreams come true.

U absolutely right trippin ... There are players not participating in ECNL or GDA that will receive a college soccer scholarship.  This was especially true just a few years ago before ECNL, but with the onset of GDA now as well, the chances of this happening aren't promising, and you can expect those chances to become even more miniscule in the near future ... Just the harsh reality of tomorrow's recruiting landscape.  This is because 90+% of kids participating in ECNL until at least U17 over the past 4 years have received college soccer scholarships ... with 90+% of those being at D1 schools.  GDA is only a few months in but those numbers are likely going to come in even higher due to it being a bit more exclusive with fewer programs + a higher level of talent in general.  These numbers are due to both tremendous exposure and tremendous need.  At ECNL and GDA Showcase events, there are 100+ college coaches scouting the talent.  Those leagues regularly have college coaches at standard league matches, and while this may sound insane, I've seen multiple college coaches (not all local) attending multiple GDA training sessions this Fall to scout talent.  

More reality ... If a player that wants to play in college is good enough to make an ECNL or GDA team, she will.  And if her parents can't afford it, she will be offered financial assistance from the club.  If she isn't good enough, she will struggle to get any exposure while playing in LH, PPL, Arlington, or HS ball.

Another tidbit ... Despite what you many of you may believe, the girls playing in GDA are still playing because the game is fun.  It's all relative to the level that the girls are playing at.  For example -- In general, a GDA athlete doesn't have fun playing at the level that most HS teams play at.  Conversely, a kid playing at the LH/HS level probably won't have much fun playing at the GDA level.  

Almost forgot ... While it isn't an expectation for 99.99% of the kids participating in GDA to make at NT roster, with roughly 4,800 kids participating in GDA with ~216 roster spots on US NTs = 4.5% could end up on one.


Well, sir, if you are going to use these numbers to support your 4.5% claim, it assumes:

(1) only the 4800 kids participating in GDA are eligible for roster spots, and
(2) all 216 spots are up for grabs each year

Neither of the above are the case.

That's like saying "with roughly 10,965 players participating in D1 college football with ~1696 roster spots on pro football teams = 15.5% of college D1 players could end up playing in the NFL."

Again, if you would keep your commentary to things you "know", you will sound more credible.

I know numbers and statistics are hard for you to wrap your noggin around, so I kindly recommend that the next time you want to wow us with your math skills, you take a deep breath, step away from your keyboard, and reconsider.

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Post by NoSpinZone 08/01/18, 09:11 am

SickofStupidity wrote:
Big Ern wrote:
UTrippin wrote:I only read a few pages of this thread so forgive me if this has already been brought up. DA and ECNL are not the end all be all, to play soccer in college. Plenty of players I know that play LH, or as some refer to as Rec. Soccer, have received college offers. We all know there are non ECNL teams that can whoop up on ECNL teams. Not all ECNL teams are good. I have only seen one DA team play and it was a scrimmage against a D1 LH team and it was a very close game with the DA team winning 3-2. I don't want you to think that I don't believe that DA does not have the top players. I am positive they do. I guess my thinking is even though the DA is so new on the girls side, all you have to do is look at the Men's National team to see that the design may be flawed. Someone mentioned that 99.9% of DA players, won't make the National Team. I would add several 9's to that number. I am all for setting goals and getting after it. I just believe that our daughters continue to play this game because it is fun. Not getting to play high school soccer doesn't seem like fun to me and I am sure many girls in the DA program feel the same way. If your daughter is good, colleges will find her.....the National team will find her. I saw on this forum that a girl that plays in Plano or Arlington, committed to West Virginia. WEST VIRGINIA!!! You don't have to have a DA or ECNL patch on your jersey to make your soccer dreams come true.

U absolutely right trippin ... There are players not participating in ECNL or GDA that will receive a college soccer scholarship.  This was especially true just a few years ago before ECNL, but with the onset of GDA now as well, the chances of this happening aren't promising, and you can expect those chances to become even more miniscule in the near future ... Just the harsh reality of tomorrow's recruiting landscape.  This is because 90+% of kids participating in ECNL until at least U17 over the past 4 years have received college soccer scholarships ... with 90+% of those being at D1 schools.  GDA is only a few months in but those numbers are likely going to come in even higher due to it being a bit more exclusive with fewer programs + a higher level of talent in general.  These numbers are due to both tremendous exposure and tremendous need.  At ECNL and GDA Showcase events, there are 100+ college coaches scouting the talent.  Those leagues regularly have college coaches at standard league matches, and while this may sound insane, I've seen multiple college coaches (not all local) attending multiple GDA training sessions this Fall to scout talent.  

More reality ... If a player that wants to play in college is good enough to make an ECNL or GDA team, she will.  And if her parents can't afford it, she will be offered financial assistance from the club.  If she isn't good enough, she will struggle to get any exposure while playing in LH, PPL, Arlington, or HS ball.

Another tidbit ... Despite what you many of you may believe, the girls playing in GDA are still playing because the game is fun.  It's all relative to the level that the girls are playing at.  For example -- In general, a GDA athlete doesn't have fun playing at the level that most HS teams play at.  Conversely, a kid playing at the LH/HS level probably won't have much fun playing at the GDA level.  

Almost forgot ... While it isn't an expectation for 99.99% of the kids participating in GDA to make at NT roster, with roughly 4,800 kids participating in GDA with ~216 roster spots on US NTs = 4.5% could end up on one.


Well, sir, if you are going to use these numbers to support your 4.5% claim, it assumes:

(1) only the 4800 kids participating in GDA are eligible for roster spots, and
(2) all 216 spots are up for grabs each year

Neither of the above are the case.

That's like saying "with roughly 10,965 players participating in D1 college football with ~1696 roster spots on pro football teams = 15.5% of college D1 players could end up playing in the NFL."

Again, if you would keep your commentary to things you "know", you will sound more credible.

I know numbers and statistics are hard for you to wrap your noggin around, so I kindly recommend that the next time you want to wow us with your math skills, you take a deep breath, step away from your keyboard, and reconsider.

Oh boy... you must be dumb enough to not know what you even said.  The thing about being on the u15 national team... is next year you are u16 and not eligible for u15.  So you are wrong.  Yes the Sr Womens team the odds are quite reduced as in your NFL analogy, but each age group NT, ages out next year and a new crop is needed.

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Post by SickofStupidity 08/01/18, 09:21 am

And yet all 4800 kids are not eligible to play on the U15 team.

So if you wanted to do more accurate comparison - take the number of U15 spots available, and divide by the number of players playing DA under the age of 15 (including 14, 13, assuming they would be eligible?).

And still ignoring that playing DA is not a pre-requisite to landing a spot on a US NT.

As simply stated, there are not 216 spots open for 4800 DA kids - and no 4.5% chance

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Post by Guest 08/01/18, 09:58 am

I see how some posters become trolls...start posting dumb $&@% just to disrupt endless debates like this one. Everyone has a plethora of knowledge when it comes to these issues yet no one has any say so. Y’all have scared away the people who’s daughter still play LH with all the dissecting of the GDA vs ECNL theories.
A seven pager dedicated to what? An ECNL Death Pool?

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Post by Guest 08/01/18, 10:20 am

OMG! Can we please move on to something else!?! This DA vs ECNL vs LH topic has been debated ad nauseam. No wonder this forum is dead. I wouldn't want to come on here either and read the same reworded post over and over again with no closure.
No one is presenting any new substantial arguments, just the same old minutiae.


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Post by Guest 08/01/18, 10:49 am

I think what's getting lost is the fact that there are several levels to choose from here in NTX. Ideally your DD should be playing at the level that best fits her ability. One that challenges but doesen't demoralize. Ulitimately the most important thing is it doesn't matter if your DD is playing DA or Plano Premier D3. The games, the teams and leagues are equally important to each player and their families regardless of what acronym they are playing in.

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Post by Lefty 08/01/18, 11:06 am

Cleansheets wrote:OMG! Can we please move on to something else!?! This DA vs ECNL vs LH topic has been debated ad nauseam. No wonder this forum is dead. I wouldn't want to come on here either and read the same reworded  post over and over again with no closure.
No one is presenting any new substantial arguments, just the same old minutiae.


It goes on and on because it is something the parents can be proud of related to their DD's capabilities. If it is their DD's thing they want everyone to know they are the best, and in some cases it may be the biggest accomplishment of their life.

Guess we could also start threads on the merits of:
. ACT scores vs SAT scores
. Harvard vs Stanford
. Working for Google or Amazon
. Being a doctor vs a teacher

and get the same type of threads.

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Post by SuperCoach 08/01/18, 11:12 am

Lefty wrote:
Cleansheets wrote:OMG! Can we please move on to something else!?! This DA vs ECNL vs LH topic has been debated ad nauseam. No wonder this forum is dead. I wouldn't want to come on here either and read the same reworded  post over and over again with no closure.
No one is presenting any new substantial arguments, just the same old minutiae.


It goes on and on because it is something the parents can be proud of related to their DD's capabilities.  If it is their DD's thing they want everyone to know they are the best, and in some cases it may be the biggest accomplishment of their life.

Guess we could also start threads on the merits of:
. ACT scores vs SAT scores
. Harvard vs Stanford
. Working for Google or Amazon
. Being a doctor vs a teacher

and get the same type of threads.


Those would be great things to discuss, but since DA won't let kids play in college anymore the point is moot.
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Post by SickofStupidity 08/01/18, 11:13 am

At age 56, Lefty's daughter is asked "What is the biggest accomplishment of your life?"

"The biggest accomplishment of my life? Well, making the U14 DA team, of course!"



sad

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Post by Lefty 08/01/18, 11:36 am

SickofStupidity wrote:At age 56, Lefty's daughter is asked "What is the biggest accomplishment of your life?"

"The biggest accomplishment of my life?  Well, making the U14 DA team, of course!"



sad

Sad, but true, in some cases for DD's that one of my DD's played with in the LHGCL/Red Bull/National League/ODP days.

Others from her teams are now Teachers, Engineers, Bankers, Architects, Vets, Dentists, Doctors & Attorneys so they were not scarred too much from not making the ODP Regional Teams, or national team pools.


Last edited by Lefty on 08/01/18, 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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