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Post by Mr. Miyagi 03/12/18, 08:56 am

soccerfanatic2008 wrote:Miyagi, even if another team manages to win classic league, it doesn’t mean they are automatically the best team in NTX in my opinion.  Tournaments play a big role as well. If a team finishes 2nd in classic league and also wins multiple big tournaments, they should be ranked above a team that wins classic league and cannot manage to win a single big tournament.

As far as the OKC energy central/east thing, I saw the team picture someone posted on Facebook, and that team from this weekend had a lot of the same players from the OKC team that played in league challenge cup. I’m sure they did player passes  within the club as a lot of teams do for big tournaments.

Seed, you have it right: if McKinney has figured out his lineup and his team starts rolling, they are dangerous.  They took down a team that hammered the kicks earlier the same day. That’s pretty impressive

Its not about the Kicks. It could be Liverpool. I'm not biased. All I'm saying is let the process play out because its still early. I actually like what I see from McKinney. Even in their Tournament loss to Suarez, McKinney "looked" like the better team with their passes and ect, but could not put the ball in the net. But simply basing their ranking off of tournaments when the season is barley halfway completed seems pre-mature. And while the tournaments do play a part in ranking, they aren't the end all be all. McKinney will still need to take care of business on the field when they play the other top teams in Classic League play. Or, as I stated earlier, their ranking for this season could be up for debate. They were clearly the #2 team last season. This season is still unfolding.

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Post by soccerfanatic2008 03/12/18, 09:12 am

You are missing the point. Even if they finish 2nd in classic league, they are still the top team based off classic league 2nd AND tournament results combined. And how can you say they are clear #2 in classic last season when not all teams have played each other yet. Kicks are undefeated right now because they haven’t played anyone yet. They still have to play solar, Liverpool, suarez, Atletico espanol, etc. the only decent team they have faced so far is Salazar. The spring season is going to be tough for them

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Post by Mr. Miyagi 03/12/18, 09:44 am

soccerfanatic2008 wrote:You are missing the point. Even if they finish 2nd in classic league, they are still the top team based off classic league 2nd AND tournament results combined. And how can you say they are clear #2 in classic last season when not all teams have played each other yet. Kicks are undefeated right now because they haven’t played anyone yet. They still have to play solar, Liverpool, suarez, Atletico espanol, etc. the only decent team they have faced so far is Salazar.  The spring season is going to be tough for them

No Sir, you are missing the point I was making. If another team beats McKinney, and runs the table and wins classic league, and happens to win a tournament two as well, It would definitely be a debate on who the top team is. You are making it seem as if McKinney has the top ranking all but locked up. They still will need to win their games in classic league as well.

As for them being #2, I was not referring to what took place "this Fall", I was referring to what took place during the U10 season, Last fall and last spring. McKinney was clearly number #2 back then when PSG was still around.
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Post by Rooster08dad 03/12/18, 09:54 am

I agree with Miyagi that the games need to be played but SoccerF has a point too. We can’t base who the best team is 100% off classic league we have to look at who and how they played. It’s a dumb argument anyway with 2 top FCD and one top solar 08 teams playing DA. I think next year is going to be crazy at the 08 level with those teams problemlly coming back to classic league/tournaments..

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Post by soccerfanatic2008 03/12/18, 10:13 am

Miyagi you never mentioned in your comment that the other teams would have to win a few tournaments as well for the spot to be up for debate. You just implied that if McKinney doesn’t take care of business in classic league, that the top spot is up for debate. I countered your argument by presenting that solars tournament history more than makes up for a 2nd place classic league finish and thus, still earns them the #1 ranking they have maintained since July

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Post by Mr. Miyagi 03/12/18, 10:25 am

soccerfanatic2008 wrote:Miyagi you never mentioned in your comment that the other teams would have to win a few tournaments as well for the spot to be up for debate. You just implied that if McKinney doesn’t take care of business in classic league, that the top spot is up for debate.  I countered your argument by presenting that solars tournament history more than makes up for a 2nd place classic league finish and thus, still earns them the #1 ranking they have maintained since July

Well, there are other scenarios that could take place that I didn’t feel the need to type out. You mention Solars tournament wins, but you know as well as everyone else that all tournaments are not created equal. You make it seem as if Solar won the Supercopa or something and if they finish 2nd in Classic League they will automatically be the top team. So what if they finish 2nd but fail to win anymore tournaments? Are they still your top team? I give them credit for winning the tournaments, but who they are playing against in the tournaments holds more weight. In two of those tournaments they won, the field was not loaded with other top D1 teams. And you also have to take tournament wins with a grain a salt. Because for all we know due to holidays/vacations and ect, some of the teams that Solar beat may have been missing their “starting mid fielder”. Or is that excuse only good for Solar?

lol!
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Post by Mr. Miyagi 03/12/18, 10:33 am

Rooster08dad wrote:I agree with Miyagi that the games need to be played but SoccerF has a point too. We can’t base who the best team is 100% off classic league we have to look at who and how they played. It’s a dumb argument anyway with 2 top FCD and one top solar 08 teams playing DA. I think next year is going to be crazy at the 08 level with those teams problemlly coming back to classic league/tournaments..

I’m aware of most of the PSG/FC Dallas playing up in DA, but who is the 2nd FC Dallas 08’ team you are referencing that is currently playing up?
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Post by soccerfanatic2008 03/12/18, 10:44 am

You are amusing Miyagi. Honestly, I laugh at you quite often. If it was one tournament win, I would take it with a grain of salt, but it’s multiple tournament wins. And only one of those tournament wins had sub par teams. King Tut had all the top teams, Labor Day had plenty of top teams. And college station had your favorite top team (Dallas kicks) along with allegiance. 3 out of the 4 tournaments solar won has had the top teams present. It’s not Solar’s fault that allegiance embarrassed themselves out there this weekend or that kicks got dominated by an Oklahoma team that solar was able to beat. It seems like a lot of these top teams are entering the same tournaments as McKinney, but just can’t seem to lift that trophy.

And no, the excuse of missing starters isn’t only good for Solar. But funny how they still manage to win so much.

Speaking of not playing top teams, My question to you is this. Since Kicks have yet to play any top teams in classic league, and have not won any tournaments, why do you think they are top team?

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Post by Rooster08dad 03/12/18, 11:37 am

Miyagi I’m not sure what team it was but if you look at FCDs website it has 07DA and 07DAII and combined it has 2 teams worth of 08s.

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Post by Mr. Miyagi 03/12/18, 05:24 pm

Rooster08dad wrote:Miyagi I’m not sure what team it was but if you look at FCDs website it has 07DA and 07DAII and combined it has 2 teams worth of 08s.

Ok gotcha. I figured that’s what you were talking about but wanted to be sure. I believe that “2nd 08” team that is playing DA is a mixture of kids from different clubs/teams. I don’t think that was a previous “FC Dallas team” to begin with. I think there are a couple of PSG kids on that team along with some other kids from various clubs/teams.
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Post by Rooster08dad 03/12/18, 05:46 pm

No prob I’m just saying the landscape my look very different next season.

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Post by Mr. Miyagi 03/12/18, 06:25 pm

Rooster08dad wrote:No prob I’m just saying the landscape my look very different next season.

You are exactly right about that. With these “new developments” I’ve been hearing about taking place, I’m very curious to see how the Big clubs will handle the 08’ Rosters. Lots of 08’ kids are already playing up in U12 DA. Do the clubs keep those teams together and form an “unofficial” DA League for that age group, or do they move those kids to Classic league? Lots of questions that will need to be answered.
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Post by Mr. Miyagi 03/12/18, 06:59 pm

soccerfanatic2008 wrote:You are amusing Miyagi.  Honestly, I laugh at you quite often. If it was one tournament win, I would take it with a grain of salt, but it’s multiple tournament wins. And only one of those tournament wins had sub par teams.  King Tut had all the top teams,  Labor Day had plenty of top teams. And college station had your favorite top team (Dallas kicks) along with allegiance. 3 out of the 4 tournaments solar won has had the top teams present.  It’s not Solar’s fault that allegiance embarrassed themselves out there this weekend or that kicks got dominated by an Oklahoma team that solar was able to beat.   It seems like a lot of these top teams are entering the same tournaments as McKinney, but just can’t seem to lift that trophy.

And no, the excuse of missing starters isn’t only good for Solar. But funny how they still manage to win so much.

Speaking of not playing top teams, My question to you is this. Since Kicks have yet to play any top teams in classic league, and have not won any tournaments, why do you think they are top team?

You and I actually agree more than you think. I actually like McKinney. I think he is one of the best coaches in north texas. He has a nice style of developing the kids to play defense, possession, and attacking. I just think it’s premature to crown McKinney so early in the season. I don’t consider the Kicks “the” top team anymore than I consider the McKinney to be the top team for this year. Both of their resumes are still being put together.

You mention the King Tut Tournament as if Solar won that tournament? Due to the format of the tournament not being a “winner take all” style, it’s really irrelevant because there were no elimination rounds to pair the two best teams in that tournament to decide a winner.

Labor Day Tournament, had Liverpool and Texans Salazar. No FCD Suarez and no Dallas Kicks. There were some other good teams there, but realistically nobody was expecting any of those teams to win it all.

College Station tournament had the Kicks and a team from Oklahoma. Not a very deep field.

You mention the Kicks Classic League schedule as if they are cherry picking their own opponents or something? I actually agree that they haven’t played the toughest Classic League schedule yet, but they have beat who was put in front of them. This spring will have some very interesting matchups.
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Post by soccerfanatic2008 03/12/18, 08:17 pm

Miyagi, as far as king Tut, you are right. It was a round robin friendly format. But, McKinney did tie suarez and beat Liverpool and fcd east Texas and fcd Molina. 3 wins and a tie That is better than any other team faired, including suarez, Kicks, and Liverpool.

And you state that some of the other tournaments didn’t have a deep field BUT, you do admit that there was at least one of the supposed top 3 teams in those tournaments. Well none of those top teams managed to prevent McKinney from winning the championships.

I just personally think solar is the clear top team. If another team wants to unseat them, they will need to start entering and winning multiple tournaments as well as finishing top 2 or 3 in classic league.

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Post by GOSP 03/12/18, 08:57 pm

Yep, a lot of you will not even care in 2 years. Maybe even next year if the 08 DA kids come back to classic league. My guess is that the DA teams create a league for these teams and don't send them back to classic league. Who knows....If they do go back to classic league, it is only for one year and life as you now it will change tremendously. I suspect if that is the case we will hear a lot of bitching about the DA kids being there for one year and messing the league up....

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Post by Mr. Miyagi 03/12/18, 09:04 pm

soccerfanatic2008 wrote:Miyagi, as far as king Tut, you are right. It was a round robin friendly format. But, McKinney did tie suarez and beat Liverpool and fcd east Texas and fcd Molina. 3 wins and a tie  That is better than any other team faired, including  suarez, Kicks, and Liverpool.

And you state that some of the other tournaments didn’t have a deep field  BUT, you do admit that there was at least one of the supposed top 3 teams in those tournaments. Well none of those top teams managed to prevent McKinney from winning the championships.

I just personally think solar is the clear top team. If another team wants to unseat them, they will need to start entering and winning multiple tournaments as well as finishing top 2 or 3 in classic league.

FCD Suarez did beat them in the semis of the League Challange Cup.
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Post by Mr. Miyagi 03/12/18, 09:12 pm

GOSP wrote:Yep, a lot of you will not even care in 2 years. Maybe even next year if the 08 DA kids come back to classic league. My guess is that the DA teams create a league for these teams and don't send them back to classic league. Who knows....If they do go back to classic league, it is only for one year and life as you now it will change tremendously. I suspect if that is the case we will hear a lot of bitching about the DA kids being there for one year and messing the league up....

I agree. I think the clubs “set up” a league for the 08’s. I don’t think they will want to “lose momentum” of the development of the 08’ kids that are already playing up, and I don’t think there will be enough roster spots to have those same 08 kids “play up” with the U13 group. If so, it will be very few as you stated earlier.
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Post by Guest 03/12/18, 09:32 pm

You are assuming there will be U13 DA next year.

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Post by GOSP 03/12/18, 09:36 pm

Yes, I am assuming that. I don't believe they will end the U13. I think you would have heard that with the U12 announcement. Then again things can change.

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Post by Cobra Kai 04/12/18, 08:14 pm

Yo Miyagi. The Chelsea ID team Solar McKinney played this weekend just tied Solar West DA team (formerly Texans South Estrada) 2 weeks ago at Copa Rayados. McKinney just destroyed them this weekend 6-1. So it’s not that the field was weak, it’s just that solar McKinney is now playing the way they are known for. No team is safe. Cobra Kai. Strike first, strike hard, no mercy

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Post by Mr. Miyagi 05/12/18, 01:20 am

Cobra Kai wrote:Yo Miyagi. The Chelsea ID team Solar McKinney played this weekend just tied Solar West DA team (formerly Texans South Estrada) 2 weeks ago at Copa Rayados. McKinney just destroyed them this weekend 6-1. So it’s not that the field was weak, it’s just that solar McKinney is now playing the way they are known for. No team is safe. Cobra Kai. Strike first, strike hard, no mercy

Nice screename and closing statements.  lol!

That same Chelsea ID team was beat by FCD Molina in the same tournament, and FCD Molina was recently defeated 6-1 by the Kicks, 3-2 by Liverpool, and 6-3 by Solar East Ackerson; So I don’t know how much stock I would put into that “tie” with Solar Adames.

If Solar McKinney is truly getting back to form I for one am all for it as it will make the spring portion of the classic league even better when all the top teams clash to see who the king of the hill will be.
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Post by soccerfanatic2008 05/12/18, 09:37 pm

I think the point being made is that the classic league won’t determine who the king of the hill is. It will determine the winner of classic league and that alone. The king of the hill will be determined by a combination of classic league finish plus tournament results. That is how got soccer and almost all other ranking sites determine rankings. A team that wins classic league will certainly get credit (points) for winning the league. But overall rankings take tournaments into account as well.

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Post by Mr. Miyagi 05/12/18, 10:47 pm

soccerfanatic2008 wrote:I think the point being made is that the classic league won’t determine who the king of the hill is. It will determine the winner of classic league and that alone. The king of the hill will be determined by a combination of classic league finish plus tournament results.  That is how got soccer and almost all other ranking sites determine rankings. A team that wins classic league will certainly get credit (points) for winning the league. But overall rankings take tournaments into account as well.

I don’t totally disagree with you there, but I will say that the Classic League should definitely hold more weight than the most of the other local tournaments due to fact that there is no “luck of the draw”. Every team plays each other and we also get to track how the teams fare against common opponents. So it’s in fact the ultimate tournament when considering who the best team in the area is. Most of the local tournaments have 1 or 2 top teams competing in them at one time. Well in theory, the Classic league has almost all the top teams playing in it, and they all are playing against each other with no byes, and no “easy paths” to the “championship” as every team is playing the same schedule against the same field of teams.
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Post by soccerfanatic2008 05/12/18, 11:50 pm

There is no luck of the draw. Seeding is all based off rankings and game history combined. So winning in classic league gets you seeded a certain way. BUT,winning games in classic league PLUS winning tournaments gets you an even better seeding in tournaments. I’ do believe that Classic league should have an impact on rankings, but it certainly shouldn’t hold more weight than tournaments. In the Labor Day Tournament, McKinney ended up playing 5 games against division 1 teams. So in one single weekend, they won the equivalent of over 1/2 of an entire classic league season against D1 teams.... but you think that shouldn't hold a considerable amount of weight in rankings? Cmon man. I think got soccer does a decent job of maintaining a good balance.

While I don’t think tournaments are completely luck of the draw as far as seeding is concerned, I will say that FC Dallas sure does get a lot of breaks in these tournaments. In league challenge cup, the FCD Suarez bracket got a bye game which gave them an automatic 3-0 win over an imaginary opponent. That’s 10 points gifted to every team in that bracket, which is huge considering 1 wildcard team got through to the playoffs. That gave every team in that bracket a heads up on the wildcard spot. Rayos got screwed out of the wild card spot and it was given to fcd Suarez based off of goal differential. Not only did the 10 points allow them to tie rayos, but the 3-0 imaginary win helped them on goal differential. It’s pretty blatant and pathetic that fcd gets breaks like this.

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Post by Mr. Miyagi 06/12/18, 01:19 am

soccerfanatic2008 wrote:There is no luck of the draw. Seeding is all based off rankings and game history combined.  So winning in classic league gets you seeded a certain way. BUT,winning games in classic league PLUS winning tournaments gets you an even better seeding in tournaments. I’ do believe that Classic league should have an impact on rankings, but it certainly shouldn’t hold more weight than tournaments. In the Labor Day Tournament, McKinney ended up playing 5 games against division 1 teams. So in one single weekend, they won the equivalent of over 1/2 of an entire classic league season against  D1 teams.... but you think that shouldn't hold a considerable amount of weight in rankings? Cmon man. I think got soccer does a decent job of maintaining a good balance.

While I don’t think tournaments are completely luck of the draw as far as seeding is concerned, I will say that FC Dallas sure does get a lot of breaks in these tournaments. In league challenge cup, the FCD Suarez bracket got a bye game which gave them an automatic 3-0 win over an imaginary opponent. That’s 10 points gifted to every team in that bracket, which is huge considering 1 wildcard team got through to the playoffs. That gave every team in that bracket a heads up on the wildcard spot. Rayos got screwed out of the wild card spot and it was given to fcd Suarez based off of goal differential. Not only did the 10 points allow them to tie rayos, but the 3-0 imaginary win helped them on goal differential. It’s pretty blatant and pathetic that fcd gets breaks like this.

Seeding SHOULD BE based off of history, but at the end of the day, it’s done at the discretion of whoever is running the tournament. Case and point, just look at the seeding of the Classic League QT.

When I stated “luck of the draw”, I meant it as a double entendre in that there is luck in the draw as in “which teams sign up to play” to compose the field of the tournament, and which teams the tournament decides to pair against within the brackets.

I also wouldn’t blame FC Dallas on the bye they received. I believe there was a team that dropped out at the last minute and the tournament could not find a replacement. But either way, they were still able to advance past McKinney. Some would argue that FC Dallas had some luck with their “draw” that weekend. lol!
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Post by Cobra Kai 06/12/18, 03:01 am

Did you just compare seeding of a 60+ team qualifying tournament, to the seeding of a standard tournament with 12 or fewer teams? Brilliant

And your luck of the draw as far as “which teams the tournament decides to pair against within the brackets”. There is no luck in that. It’s pretty clear in every tournament I have ever seen that the teams are all seeded 1through whatever and then placed in their respective brackets accordingly. Even if a team feels they should be ranked above another team, it usually all evens out within the brackets

And as far as “which teams sign up to play” at this point, all these teams and coaches know each other. For the most part,everyone knows which tournaments the top teams sign up for. If a team doesnt sign up for these tournaments, then that’s on them. I know tournaments like Bobby Rhine or veterans cup are smaller tournaments and most top u11 teams don’t normally sign up for those unless they are looking for extra games, but when a top team doesn’t sign up for the Labor Day tournament, Which awards a ton of got soccer points to the champion...well I don’t want to hear that team complaining about luck of the draw when they get a low seed in a later tournament.

Cobra Kai
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