woop woop....LH Team Manager/Coach meeting tonight

Gumby wrote:

InaB wrote:Do you think we will finally know the mystery known as 11 teams in D3?    

.     No mystery, somebody messed up.  We'll never know who.  

So it's for sure that there are 30 teams....9 in D1, 10 in D2 and 11 in D3?

Is Ina paying attention to the meeting instead of the board...oh the nerve! lol.

Seems like she can multi-task pretty good.

Sorry, for some reason my posts died in route. Yes there are 30 teams. I was told that there was a bye that wasn't taken in time and because LH wanted to give the girls the opportunity, they took in 11 teams. Still 20 games. I have chosen to suspend belief, and call in my Fairy Tale card on this one.

A partial schedule is due out on Friday (not holding my breath). Games Let's get ready to ruuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmbbbbbbbbllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

OK so this discussion goes on beyond the board. To the little bird who sent a PM, I apologize for prematurely blaming the league (egg in the face comment, see above). The word from an official person (does that mean it's an official word, even if off the record?) is that one team made a registration mistake re. bye. The BOD of the league voted to let the team in, even if it means 11 Div 3 teams.

My bad for not thinking that the error could have been on the team side....I had assumed that the rules are the rules and deadlines are firm, but I guess grace covers a multitude of managerial registration mistakes.

Still top 5 to advance, numbers 6-11 to requalify, but that's another story for 2014.

Let the games begin folks. I'll see you sporting that fancy field marshall vest on the pitch.

Thanks skillz for the Bird's eye view. I am already a veteran orange vest wearer. I have now bedazzled my own. Can't wait.

Skilz, I am not totally sure of why the team missed the bye deadline, but that team manager and coach should be kissing feet right about now (if they hadn't already). I would not want to be the one to have to tell my team that I messed up that badly. I would imagine that the team wouldn't be a team for long after that.

That being said, I am still not too sure why LH didn't just drop back to adding five teams instead of six. Surely if the bye situation is not set in stone then their set up of QT wouldn't be either.

Best I can say is that the situation is as quirky as I am. A lesson to one and all.  

Is it possible a team registered on time but did not register as a bye team by mistake?

I wonder if they will play 10 games instead of 9 in D3 so everyone plays everyone. If not, there may be a complaint coming down the road when it makes a difference.

Hi Dood, the commissioner said we would play 20 games this season. As to the possibility of registering on time, that could be. Strange things happen all the time (at least in LH).  

Did they happen to mention anything about Spring Break? I know they have scheduled 1 game during that timeframe in the past. But, with the fact there are 20 games now, I wonder if they would use that time to play both weekends.

Hi Tex, yes they did discuss spring break. They will schedule games on only one weekend during spring break. I believe Duncan said it could be the second weekend (ending) of spring break.

(adding comment)

My crystal ball sees more week day games looming.

InaB   So it was your big, red hair right in front of me that kept me from seeing all the board members when they were introduced?  

They did tell us the reason the referees are either extremely "mature" or just getting pimples...Parents!  It is mostly the abuse by parents and sometimes coaches that run off 4 out of 5 referees within the first 5 years of officiating.  

So then you have the 1 in 5 that continue to officiate because they are crusty enough to put up with us parents and the ones just getting pimples are too wet behind the ears to realize how bad it is out there and no it doesn't get better!!!  Maybe if parents were a bit more understanding that referees are humans simply trying to do a job...yes, some are better than others, but they aren't out there to intentionally screw up your game folks!  Have a bit of grace...their perspective may be different than yours...they are actually on the field not standing on the sideline with their Starbucks cup.  Treat them with respect and maybe, just maybe, some of the really good ones will stay.  Because no matter how good a referee is, someone on the sideline thinks they know better.

Oh...last thing and I'll step off... constantly yelling "ref", "what was that", "can't you see" etc... will NOT get your team any better calls.  It is human nature to dislike a sideline that is verbally assaulting you.  Do you really think that any human being (hello, referees are just regular folks) will give your team any 50/50 calls or give any of your girls the benefit of the doubt if they can't stand the parents?  NO!  I sure as heck wouldn't if the sideline had been yelling at me the entire game.

Ok...my 2 cents... done for now

No, I'm not a referee!

Thanks InaB!

InaB wrote:Hi Tex, yes they did discuss spring break. They will schedule games on only one weekend during spring break. I believe Duncan said it could be the second weekend (ending) of spring break.

(adding comment)

My crystal ball sees more week day games looming.

The players are off the 2nd weekend of Spring Break. Be prepared to play the first weekend.

InaB wrote:
That being said, I am still not too sure why LH didn't just drop back to adding five teams instead of six. Surely if the bye situation is not set in stone then their set up of QT wouldn't be either.
 

What follows is speculation:
It must have to do with the timing.  Maybe the mistake surfaced after the first weekend of QT, and there were 4 teams fighting for 2 spots.  It would've been tough to say only one gets in, but I'm sure they could've done it differently.

Worse, it could have surfaced after the 2nd weekend.  In that case, 6 teams already won their way into the league, and it would have been bad form to cut the #6 placer.

Also, since you all are reporting D1 only has 9 teams, it could be a budget thing.  The U14 budget assumes 30 fully paid up teams. 9+10+11=30.  Of course this argument is weakened by the fact that D3 will have 2 extra games per team, costing more.

Ours is not to reason why, I suppose.

InaB, I'll be rockin the orange vest, unless I can find a convenient excuse or an extra $100.

mommabear1 wrote:InaB   So it was your big, red hair right in front of me that kept me from seeing all the board members when they were introduced?  

They did tell us the reason the referees are either extremely "mature" or just getting pimples...Parents!  It is mostly the abuse by parents and sometimes coaches that run off 4 out of 5 referees within the first 5 years of officiating.  

So then you have the 1 in 5 that continue to officiate because they are crusty enough to put up with us parents and the ones just getting pimples are too wet behind the ears to realize how bad it is out there and no it doesn't get better!!!  Maybe if parents were a bit more understanding that referees are humans simply trying to do a job...yes, some are better than others, but they aren't out there to intentionally screw up your game folks!  Have a bit of grace...their perspective may be different than yours...they are actually on the field not standing on the sideline with their Starbucks cup.  Treat them with respect and maybe, just maybe, some of the really good ones will stay.  Because no matter how good a referee is, someone on the sideline thinks they know better.

Oh...last thing and I'll step off... constantly yelling "ref", "what was that", "can't you see" etc... will NOT get your team any better calls.  It is human nature to dislike a sideline that is verbally assaulting you.  Do you really think that any human being (hello, referees are just regular folks) will give your team any 50/50 calls or give any of your girls the benefit of the doubt if they can't stand the parents?  NO!  I sure as heck wouldn't if the sideline had been yelling at me the entire game.

Ok...my 2 cents... done for now

No, I'm not a referee!

Like this post It really does not help

mommabear1 wrote:InaB   So it was your big, red hair right in front of me that kept me from seeing all the board members when they were introduced?  

They did tell us the reason the referees are either extremely "mature" or just getting pimples...Parents!  It is mostly the abuse by parents and sometimes coaches that run off 4 out of 5 referees within the first 5 years of officiating.  

So then you have the 1 in 5 that continue to officiate because they are crusty enough to put up with us parents and the ones just getting pimples are too wet behind the ears to realize how bad it is out there and no it doesn't get better!!!  Maybe if parents were a bit more understanding that referees are humans simply trying to do a job...yes, some are better than others, but they aren't out there to intentionally screw up your game folks!  Have a bit of grace...their perspective may be different than yours...they are actually on the field not standing on the sideline with their Starbucks cup.  Treat them with respect and maybe, just maybe, some of the really good ones will stay.  Because no matter how good a referee is, someone on the sideline thinks they know better.

Oh...last thing and I'll step off... constantly yelling "ref", "what was that", "can't you see" etc... will NOT get your team any better calls.  It is human nature to dislike a sideline that is verbally assaulting you.  Do you really think that any human being (hello, referees are just regular folks) will give your team any 50/50 calls or give any of your girls the benefit of the doubt if they can't stand the parents?  NO!  I sure as heck wouldn't if the sideline had been yelling at me the entire game.

Ok...my 2 cents... done for now

No, I'm not a referee!

I think this is only partially correct. If you go to a youth baseball, football, or hockey match, you will hear the exact same comments from the parents towards the refs, but I do not see the same issue in the ref staff. Go to a professional sporting match and things are even worse! I think the problem is more that we have too much soccer here for the refs to support. 3 select leagues, plus recreational leagues, plus adult leagues, plus indoor, plus school, ... Too much!!!So to fill the gap, they have to go with quantity over quality. The issue is made worse by the fact that if you do have a ref who is inadequate, what are you going to do? You still have a shortage, and though this person has got a chip on his shoulder, doesn't understand the laws of the game, won't move out of the center circle, or is too timid to use the whistle for other then half and end of game, they at least have the outfit and are willing to show up.

As far as the parents yelling at the refs... won't change.

First, its what we do. We argue with authority when the situation doesn't align to our desires (how our country was founded in the first place).

Second, its in our nature to look out for our kids. When there is a situation where our kids could possibly get hurt, we want to intervene somehow: a) can't run on the field and intervene directly (though I've seen it happen in some boys matches), b) doesn't feel right to yell at the kid on the other team, c) coaches are too far away to yell at, though the connection would be difficult for us to make in the heat of the moment d) no way is our kid in the wrong, ever!!! So we are left with e) yell at the ref... Heck, they are getting paid, its their job to see the game the way we want them to see it, and they just need thicker skin anyhow..... Might not be right, but I don't see this changing... Would love to see more fields set up like high school stadiums where there is an 8 lane track and wall in between the field and the parents bleachers.

Third, there are parents who get so wrapped up in things that they feel they are part of the game. This is fine when things are going good (love to see all the guys giving high fives and chest bumps when junior puts a ball in the net). When something goes wrong, they feel they must have been personnaly wronged somehow, and must attack back. Once again, move the sidelines back, and I think the ref / kids won't have to deal with this as much!

Finally, there are just some really bad apples out there in the reffing community. Unfortunately, people remember the bad examples more then they remember the good ones, and very rarely do we see the refs as individuals, but rather as a single group with many faces. If it were possible to weed out the bad ones (guy who just stands there, the center ref who antagonizes the parents / coaches, and the AR who gives the "talk-to-the-hand" move to a coach who is asking a question) and somehow reward / encourage the good ones (the ref who hustles and looks interested in being there, the guy who explains calls to the kids or verbalizes decisions so everyone learns, teh ref who instead of attacking back at the parents reminds them that he is a person too by making a joke / comment / connection and thus diffuses a situation).

Anyway, thats my two cents. I'm just tired of the excuses, finger pointing, etc. We know its a problem. We know policies / emails / videos etc are not going to fix it. There are deeper root causes that need to be addressed, but I unfortunately don't see that happening anytime...

OK, Momma, yes indeed that was my big red hair front and center (and back and forth).  

As to the ref situation and rules. I see the issues from both sides. It is so sad when I hear parents screaming at their players to take out an opponent. Or screaming at the ref because their DD did take out a player and got carded. I have to admit to guilt when once in a while there is a call that from my vantage point was totally wrong and I voice my opinion. However, I try not to say something bad like "You dummy, my 99 year-ol grandmother could make a better call." Or, "if you are that blind, I can loan you my binoculars." Or...... well, you get the picture.

There have been any number of calls that I have questioned, but you know they are human beings and humans make mistakes. After being the field marshall every other game or so this past year, I have seen and heard some really bad situations. One in particular stands out when I heard a frantic field marshall calling for back up after a fist fight broke out between two opponents. Eventually some of the parents also got involved. By rule, all the ref could do was to tell the girls to stop and ask their team mates to stop them. The ref isn't allowed to touch the players (and for a lot of good reasons).

Perhaps, just perhaps, if we all gave them a bit more respect, we might see better results. I in no way guarantee that outcome, but I like to think it might happen. (Of course, I am going to resort to bringing cupcakes this year!)

Rudder, I totally agree with you. We have been told that we can report bad refs through our coaches and I think we should start doing that. But, we should also do the opposite and compliment a ref when he or she does well. We, as a team (players and all) should tell them good job at the end of the game. I see the girls sometimes do that, but they aren't consistent - and I never see a parent do it.

How many of us would want to continue working when all we hear is negativity? I know I wouldn't.

Why don't we make a pact to say thank you and job well done where appropriate and at least shake the hands of the refs after the game instead of just allowing them to walk off without it? Believe me, they really don't make that much money, certainly not enough to be brow beaten every game.

 

Rudder wrote:

mommabear1 wrote:InaB   So it was your big, red hair right in front of me that kept me from seeing all the board members when they were introduced?  

They did tell us the reason the referees are either extremely "mature" or just getting pimples...Parents!  It is mostly the abuse by parents and sometimes coaches that run off 4 out of 5 referees within the first 5 years of officiating.  

So then you have the 1 in 5 that continue to officiate because they are crusty enough to put up with us parents and the ones just getting pimples are too wet behind the ears to realize how bad it is out there and no it doesn't get better!!!  Maybe if parents were a bit more understanding that referees are humans simply trying to do a job...yes, some are better than others, but they aren't out there to intentionally screw up your game folks!  Have a bit of grace...their perspective may be different than yours...they are actually on the field not standing on the sideline with their Starbucks cup.  Treat them with respect and maybe, just maybe, some of the really good ones will stay.  Because no matter how good a referee is, someone on the sideline thinks they know better.

Oh...last thing and I'll step off... constantly yelling "ref", "what was that", "can't you see" etc... will NOT get your team any better calls.  It is human nature to dislike a sideline that is verbally assaulting you.  Do you really think that any human being (hello, referees are just regular folks) will give your team any 50/50 calls or give any of your girls the benefit of the doubt if they can't stand the parents?  NO!  I sure as heck wouldn't if the sideline had been yelling at me the entire game.

Ok...my 2 cents... done for now

No, I'm not a referee!

I think this is only partially correct.  If you go to a youth baseball, football, or hockey match, you will hear the exact same comments from the parents towards the refs, but I do not see the same issue in the ref staff.  Go to a professional sporting match and things are even worse!  I think the problem is more that we have too much soccer here for the refs to support.  3 select leagues, plus recreational leagues, plus adult leagues, plus indoor, plus school, ... Too much!!!So to fill the gap, they have to go with quantity over quality.  The issue is made worse by the fact that if you do have a ref who is inadequate, what are you going to do?  You still have a shortage, and though this person has got a chip on his shoulder, doesn't understand the laws of the game, won't move out of the center circle, or is too timid to use the whistle for other then half and end of game, they at least have the outfit and are willing to show up.

As far as the parents yelling at the refs... won't change.  

First, its what we do.  We argue with authority when the situation doesn't align to our desires (how our country was founded in the first place).  

Second, its in our nature to look out for our kids.  When there is a situation where our kids could possibly get hurt, we want to intervene somehow: a) can't run on the field and intervene directly (though I've seen it happen in some boys matches), b) doesn't feel right to yell at the kid on the other team, c) coaches are too far away to yell at, though the connection would be difficult for us to make in the heat of the moment d) no way is our kid in the wrong, ever!!! So we are left with e) yell at the ref... Heck, they are getting paid, its their job to see the game the way we want them to see it, and they just need thicker skin anyhow.....  Might not be right, but I don't see this changing... Would love to see more fields set up like high school stadiums where there is an 8 lane track and wall in between the field and the parents bleachers.

Third, there are parents who get so wrapped up in things that they feel they are part of the game.  This is fine when things are going good (love to see all the guys giving high fives and chest bumps when junior puts a ball in the net).  When something goes wrong, they feel they must have been personnaly wronged somehow, and must attack back.  Once again, move the sidelines back, and I think the ref / kids won't have to deal with this as much!

Finally, there are just some really bad apples out there in the reffing community.  Unfortunately, people remember the bad examples more then they remember the good ones, and very rarely do we see the refs as individuals, but rather as a single group with many faces.  If it were possible to weed out the bad ones (guy who just stands there, the center ref who antagonizes the parents / coaches, and the AR who gives the "talk-to-the-hand" move to a coach who is asking a question) and somehow reward / encourage the good ones (the ref who hustles and looks interested in being there, the guy who explains calls to the kids or verbalizes decisions so everyone learns, teh ref who instead of attacking back at the parents reminds them that he is a person too by making a joke / comment / connection and thus diffuses a situation).

Anyway, thats my two cents.  I'm just tired of the excuses, finger pointing, etc.  We know its a problem.  We know policies / emails / videos etc are not going to fix it.  There are deeper root causes that need to be addressed, but I unfortunately don't see that happening anytime...

There are ways to handle situations without being disrespectful. If someone really thinks their kids is going to get hurt? Ask a Field Marshall to call a supervisor or something. Our country was founded on the right to challenge authority...sure, not abusing or disrespecting a soccer official in front of children. No wonder our children yell at their parents and teachers...people think it is their right to disrespect another human being simply because they have disagreeing opinions.

There are avenues you can use through LH to reward good referees and file complaints against bad ones. But if your coach doesn't agree it was truly egregious and won't sign off on an official complaint...then a parent's opinion isn't enough.

"There are ways to handle situations without being disrespectful. If someone really thinks their kids is going to get hurt? Ask a Field Marshall to call a supervisor or something. Our country was founded on the right to challenge authority...sure, not abusing or disrespecting a soccer official in front of children. No wonder our children yell at their parents and teachers...people think it is their right to disrespect another human being simply because they have disagreeing opinions.

There are avenues you can use through LH to reward good referees and file complaints against bad ones. But if your coach doesn't agree it was truly egregious and won't sign off on an official complaint...then a parent's opinion isn't enough."

Totally agree Momma!

2 issues being discussed and LHCL blames a team for one and parents for the other instead of taking ownership, shocking................
I in no way think it's OK to berate a ref, but to be questioned on judgement call comes with the job. At the end of the day the quality issue comes down to numbers, too many games and not enough refs. Older age groups are going to get the more experienced refs, it comes with seniority. It's not like the jerk parents stop being jerks becuase their kid had a birthday.

Just say the serenity prayer and just focus on your kids having a positive soccer experience, whatever that is for them.

Rudder wrote:
Heck, they are getting paid, its their job to see the game the way we want them to see it, and they just need thicker skin anyhow.....

It is an official's job to see and manage the game the way he was trained and reinforced during assessments.

I have witnessed parents of an ECNL team (U15 last year) complaining about an MLS referee who came in to work their tournament game. (Also heard these same parents telling their DD's to not play the ball backward, so not a lot of soccer cred there to begin with.)

The point is that parents and spectators do not watch the games the same way or look for the same things as the referee. With the exceptions of the cited extremely out-of-shape or belligerent refs, I submit that most spectators do not know how to grade referees and are not as familiar with Laws of the Game as they think, do not know about maintaining flow, advantage, trifling fouls...

I recommend watching a game with a referee - it is an eye opening experience.

And sorry, generally, the better refs work the boys' league, and yes, the parents complain about them too.

upper95 speaks the truth. Every word.

Skip wrote:2 issues being discussed and LHCL blames a team for one and parents for the other instead of taking ownership, shocking................
I in no way think it's OK to berate a ref, but to be questioned on judgement call comes with the job. At the end of the day the quality issue comes down to numbers, too many games and not enough refs. Older age groups are going to get the more experienced refs, it comes with seniority. It's not like the jerk parents stop being jerks becuase their kid had a birthday.Just say the serenity prayer and just focus on your kids having a positive soccer experience, whatever that is for them.

No, they just quit coming to the games. Go watch a U-19 game, and you'll see fewer spectators.