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ECNL swings back at DA

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ECNL swings back at DA

Post by timmyh on 10/11/16, 11:35 am

ECNL is telling clubs that they must choose between DA or ECNL.
Anybody see any of the Dallas clubs keeping ECNL? I imagine Solar/Texans/FCD/Sting all choose DA, right?
Will any be allowed to have both?
If not, I assume this might open the door for another local club to land an ECNL spot.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by Sho'Nuff on 10/11/16, 11:39 am

source?

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by timmyh on 10/11/16, 11:47 am

DT prostaff

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by tpitty on 10/11/16, 02:08 pm

So if they all HAD to choose one or the other, I could see Sting staying ECNL. Only because the other 3 have boys DA.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by jogobonito06 on 10/11/16, 02:56 pm

If it does become an either/or proposition, somebody would be wise to choose ECNL. DA is definitely not for everyone.
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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by Wannabe on 10/11/16, 04:39 pm

At least high school is an option for DA now.

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/about-face-heinrichs-says-girls-development-academy-will-allow-high-school-play/

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by tpitty on 10/11/16, 04:47 pm

.....and the plot thickens Suspect

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by go99 on 10/11/16, 05:18 pm

its not really an option. There is no break in a DA season and mandatory 4 days a week practice. So what she said is they will allow the girls to temporarily leave the DA team during the HS season and then return. Now how many girls will leave their spot for an extended period while others play in their spot. Maybe the kid at the bottom of the roster who isn't playing much anyway or the kid so far ahead that they feel they will still be able to maintain their spot when they return. Everyone else in a competitive system my find after the HS season they no longer have a starting spot to return too.
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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by rzrFC on 10/11/16, 05:54 pm

go99 wrote:its not really an option.  There is no break in a DA season and mandatory 4 days a week practice. So what she said is they will allow the girls to temporarily leave the DA team during the HS season and then return.  Now how many girls will leave their spot for an extended period while others play in their spot.  Maybe the kid at the bottom of the roster who isn't playing much anyway or the kid so far ahead that they feel they will still be able to maintain their spot when they return.  Everyone else in a competitive system my find after the HS season they no longer have a starting spot to return too.

This^^^

Also, my "DT prostaff" source says different. Club Soccer (ECNL) is actually working with them on how they stay involved/relevant. Texans are more likely to get rid of ECNL than the other way around. Anyone see any Texans kits with ECNL patches this year? Or, any other ECNL branding? Not a rhetorical question.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by SoccerTexas on 10/11/16, 08:08 pm

Wannabe wrote:At least high school is an option for DA now.

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/about-face-heinrichs-says-girls-development-academy-will-allow-high-school-play/

This is not new info from Heinrichs or completely honest either.  

The powerpoint from the initial "Information for Interested Clubs" presentation from back in May 2016 is here.  See slide 6.

The HS rule only applies to those kids that have started HS by the 2017/2018 season.  The HS option is phased out when those freshman graduate in 2021/22.  As stated above, you can NOT play for both the DA and HS at the same time.  Heinrichs was quoted saying the player could go play HS for two months then return to the DA team.  HS soccer in Texas is December 1 thru (hopefully) April 15th.  Could be 4.5 months.  The DA is a 10 month season.  How would your DA coach fill roster spots if half the team left to play HS.  Not going to happen.  The DA is not going to schedule games around the HS season like ECNL does.  This is just political spin.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by SoccerTexas on 10/11/16, 08:30 pm

Wannabe wrote:At least high school is an option for DA now.

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/about-face-heinrichs-says-girls-development-academy-will-allow-high-school-play/

“We know from research and from leagues around the world and our own experiences in this country that the rate of injuries is tremendous in girls soccer, and largely it’s an overuse issue … In soccer, there’s been no moderation. We’ve been asking our players to play on high-school teams, club teams, ODP, state teams … The Development Academy puts standards in place that are player development standards.”

Complete BS.  She is using statements like this to further discredit HS play (not that I think kids who forgo HS play are making a bad decision).  At the same time they want DA to practice 4 days a week.  And I dont think there is anything wrong with that either.  The players on my kids team that had ACL injuries (the five I can think of fairly easily) were not during times they were playing multiple sports or from overuse.  

*Sidebar..
One of the largest contributors to ACL injuries in females is due to weak hamstrings and overdeveloped quadriceps.  This creates instability at the knee.  This info is available for anyone to find who does a little research.  Players do not do strength training (squats) which strengthens the entire leg and brings their leg strength in balance.  They just play soccer which develops their quads but not their hamstrings.  Players that have an ACL tear also are six times greater to have a second ACL tear than those that have not had one at all.  I also know several players that have had ACL tears in both knees.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by newbiefornow on 12/11/16, 09:53 pm

My daughter is a Freshman. She has already made the decision to focus solely on Soccer next year. She's finding the challenge of academics, layered on top of managing Varsity Basketball exhausting.  She didn't want to play for her High school Soccer team. My sense is that having an external reason to reduce their commitments and completely immerse themselves in the team and the sport they love will actually be a boon to many kids.

Obviously that's one persons choice and High School Sport is a great democratizing influence. I salute anyone who can manage it all well.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by SoccerTexas on 13/11/16, 08:59 am

newbiefornow wrote:My daughter is a Freshman. She has already made the decision to focus solely on Soccer next year. She's finding the challenge of academics, layered on top of managing Varsity Basketball exhausting.  She didn't want to play for her High school Soccer team. My sense is that having an external reason to reduce their commitments and completely immerse themselves in the team and the sport they love will actually be a boon to many kids.

Obviously that's one persons choice and High School Sport is a great democratizing influence. I salute anyone who can manage it all well.

I agree.  The amount of things my DD is involved in and amount of time she spends trying to meet all the demands can be staggering.  She has the control to determine what she wants to be involved in and is a fairly driven kid. Its just a highly competitive time to be a student athlete.  

I read some fairly good advice prior to my DD starting HS.  

You can pick two of the three of the following:  Excel as a student (top grades/AP courses/top 5%); Excel as a top athlete (college recruit), or full social life.  I have found this to be true and dont know any athletes personally that have been able to have all three.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by Lefty on 13/11/16, 11:35 am

SoccerTexas wrote:
newbiefornow wrote:My daughter is a Freshman. She has already made the decision to focus solely on Soccer next year. She's finding the challenge of academics, layered on top of managing Varsity Basketball exhausting.  She didn't want to play for her High school Soccer team. My sense is that having an external reason to reduce their commitments and completely immerse themselves in the team and the sport they love will actually be a boon to many kids.

Obviously that's one persons choice and High School Sport is a great democratizing influence. I salute anyone who can manage it all well.

I agree.  The amount of things my DD is involved in and amount of time she spends trying to meet all the demands can be staggering.  She has the control to determine what she wants to be involved in and is a fairly driven kid. Its just a highly competitive time to be a student athlete.  

I read some fairly good advice prior to my DD starting HS.  

You can pick two of the three of the following:  Excel as a student (top grades/AP courses/top 5%); Excel as a top athlete (college recruit), or full social life.  I have found this to be true and dont know any athletes personally that have been able to have all three.

I know several who have been able to do all 3.

The key is that there can be no compromise on academics, but the child (not the parents) has to be able to draw their own line on the second and third.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by timmyh on 18/11/16, 10:16 am

It appears that in Houston there will just be on DA team. Clubs are declining because ECNL is telling many clubs they will be booted out of ECNL if they participate in the DA and don't send their best teams into the ECNL.
Two clubs are sticking with the known quantity of ECNL rather than roll the dice with the DA.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by jogobonito06 on 18/11/16, 10:42 am

That would be the best thing for everyone. One DA group per market would ensure that group was strong and had the players who truly want that path.

The other top players continue to play ECNL, compete at a high level and get the opportunity to continue in college without making the sacrifices DA requires. (Their nod to allowing HS play is pure spin - it will not work)

The problem is this is not a battle over player development but a battle of $$$$. This will either get bloody or we'll wind up with 2 paths that are each weaker than they could be.
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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by Teufel Hunden on 18/11/16, 11:01 am

Sources please..."clubs are declining DA because they will be booted out of ECNL"....this would be a huge story nowhere to be found. Now that DA is around the corner, another player shuffling will start to take place sooner than later, this time around diluting the ECNL and further diluting the talent level in LH (which is already pretty bad with the exception of a team or two). It will be very interesting because the ECNL will still be in play through May, or later if your team qualifies for one of the championships or showcase events held in the June timeframe, making tryouts difficult. You may argue that all 4 DA clubs will just take their current ECNL teams and make these DA, but they will always look for players to enhance their current roster. Another point not to forget that the DA is a "composite" age group, so the DA will be siphoning from two ECNL teams (or LH teams, whatever) versus just converting one.

Once again, need sources...soccerwire, topdrawer...nothing indicating that the ECNL is preparing to "boot" clubs from ECNL that have accepted DA spots. I guess we will wait and see once we get closer to summer.
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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by timmyh on 18/11/16, 11:01 am

jogobonito06 wrote:That would be the best thing for everyone.  One DA group per market would ensure that group was strong and had the players who truly want that path.

I don't see how that works.  The travel costs would be insurmountable.  There just isn't enough money in girls soccer.

The other top players continue to play ECNL, compete at a high level and get the opportunity to continue in college without making the sacrifices DA requires.  (Their nod to allowing HS play is pure spin - it will not work)

The problem is this is not a battle over player development but a battle of $$$$.  This will either get bloody or we'll wind up with 2 paths that are each weaker than they could be.

I think this gets real bloody.  The next couple of years could be a mess until it sorts itself out.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by timmyh on 18/11/16, 11:04 am

Teufel Hunden wrote:
Once again, need sources...soccerwire, topdrawer...nothing indicating that the ECNL is preparing to "boot" clubs from ECNL that have accepted DA spots.  

I admittedly got nothing. But it was a pretty open secret and widely discussed in Phoenix last week.

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on 18/11/16, 11:31 am

Good Read:

SA: The launch of Girls Development Academy has created a turf war with the ECNL, whose president, Christian Lavers, recently described to me the U.S. girls soccer scene as a “house divided.” Could you speak to that?

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/71034/april-heinrichs-on-under-17-world-cup-development.html


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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by jogobonito06 on 18/11/16, 11:32 am

timmyh wrote:
jogobonito06 wrote:That would be the best thing for everyone.  One DA group per market would ensure that group was strong and had the players who truly want that path.

I don't see how that works.  The travel costs would be insurmountable.  There just isn't enough money in girls soccer.

The other top players continue to play ECNL, compete at a high level and get the opportunity to continue in college without making the sacrifices DA requires.  (Their nod to allowing HS play is pure spin - it will not work)

The problem is this is not a battle over player development but a battle of $$$$.  This will either get bloody or we'll wind up with 2 paths that are each weaker than they could be.

I think this gets real bloody.  The next couple of years could be a mess until it sorts itself out.

Of course the travel issue would be huge. That's why they've anointed 70-odd clubs as being "special". The only other way it would work would be for the Pro teams to take the hit.

Their model now has more DA programs in some markets than teams that can currently compete at the National level. Seriously? So their new superior training methods will develop all these new top-level players? PT Barnum would be proud
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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by Zizou on 18/11/16, 11:48 am

Identifying a consistent method of training and identification method of players across our country with our selected top players can only be an improvement over the previous system being used..

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by Lefty on 18/11/16, 01:27 pm

Zizou wrote:Identifying a consistent method of training and identification method of players across our country with our selected top players can only be an improvement over the previous system being used..

Not sure how you ever get a top down controlled development model to work in a 'Pay to Play' financial model.  Does anyone else in the world operate that way?

If the powers that be wanted to implement a 'No Cost to the players model', to maximize developmental control like it seems the rest of the world does, then it might work.

Trying to have your cake (Pay to Play) and eat it too (Top Down Developmental Control) seems a bit like 'P...ing into the wind'


Last edited by Lefty on 18/11/16, 02:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by Teufel Hunden on 18/11/16, 01:29 pm

I was in Phoenix last week and heard nothing. Even the college coaches I had the opportunity to talk to had no knowledge other than what is widely known today. So all is mere speculation, rumor control. Gotta wait and see.

As far as consistent training method, identification of players, I agree that some tweaking is needed...maybe. It is all under the premise to replicate what is in place on the boys side. Since the time of inception (9 years ago?), how many players has the Boys DA produced that play Pro or in the USMNT? I confess, I haven't looked into it...but I bet not many if any at all. FCD seems to be the most successful team in producing its own talent, but that is of recent years. The ECNL by far is more successful in that regard. Some tweaking may be needed, but nonetheless, it is providing the talent for college (original mission of ECNL is a more direct path for college, Pro, USWNT is icing on the cake). PRO and USWNT talent piggy backs on talent produced in ECNL. Again, can ECNL be better?, YES! Is the DA the answer? Just look at the boys side.
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Re: ECNL swings back at DA

Post by Zizou on 18/11/16, 01:37 pm

Lefty wrote:
Zizou wrote:Identifying a consistent method of training and identification method of players across our country with our selected top players can only be an improvement over the previous system being used..

Not sure how you ever get a top down model to work in a 'Pay to Play' financial model.  Does anyone else in the world operate that way?

If the powers that be wanted to implement a 'No Cost to the players model', to maximize developmental control like it seems the rest of the world does, then it might work.

Trying to have your cake (Pay to Play) and eat it too (Top Down Developmental Control) seems a bit like 'P...ing into the wind'


That would make DA for the girls at least a step in the right direction

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