Running up the score and when is it ever appropriate

I am still new to Ntx soccer but I have a question for everyone.. I went out to watch a friend play soccer this weekend and I was shocked and saddened by the running up of a score of one of the games I watched.

The team I saw play was clearly NOT in the appropriate division and should have been in a higher level. The team they played was struggling and the game ended in a 12-0 final.

It was clear after the first 4 or 5 points that the teams were mismatched but the winnnng team continued to pile on the points all the way up to the end of the game.

The goalie for the losing team was in tears by the 9th point and still no mercy. I found it to be sickening to watch. IMO . Is this what NTX soccer is about? To destroy 9 an 10 year olds self esteem and love for the game. I promise they will think about it again because I personally can't stop thinking about it and I didn't even have a DD playing in the game or the tournament.

At what point as a coach do you have to stop scoring ? Move players? Start passing? Do something other than run the score up?

Just curious what the general feeling is on this topic.

Thanks

I know the game you're talking about and I sure hate to hear that. Don't know the coach but that club has a great reputation in girl's soccer.
Besides, goal keepers have a hard job as it is...so much pressure. Breaks my heart for the 10 year old little girl. Because that is what she is... a 10 year old little girl...all of these '02 girls are either 9 or 10. We tend to forget that in our own ego induced voyeuristic hyper-competitiveness. Hope her team and coach supported her through such a devastating game.

Bare in mind that many coaches are idiots. And the parents supporting them tend to be even worse. A coach with any kind of class or sense of sportsmanship at all can figure out ways NOT to run a game up to 12-0.

...Running up the score happens in all sports and does not show class or sportsmanship. Even the NFL had bounties put on players..so any time you keep score people will do things that don't make sense....please don't be discouraged by this. Hopefully the losing team will train harder so this doesn't happen again.

I am not sure if they still have the rule, but Denton (rec) used to suspend the head coach for one game if his/her team won by 6 goals or more. Such a rule would be impossible to implement in Academy leagues. In tournaments, only your first five goals matter in regards to tie breakers for advancement. Sometimes, there is not much a coach can do, short of playing with less players.

There are a million things you can have the kids work on, especially at this age, that would prevent that from happening.

Qualifying it is appropriate to run the score up. I have see teams fall to D2 and below based on goals. Score and score often and hope it doesn't come down to goals. Other than that you should find a way to make the game beneficial to your team also. You primary concern should be the other team or their parents and how they feel, it should be on developing your own team. Running the score up on a team does you no good but a lopsided game still can present some good opportunities

This topic was recently explored with the 04s. Although I too agree it is unsportsmanlinke, unproductive, and yields no mutual benefit, I tended to sympathize with the winners in that age group as teams are not as well identified with all the flux and really good teams get matched up against not so good teams often. And at that age it's all about scoring goals and hard to tone it down due to lack of overall skills.

Now with the 02s that is a different story. There is enough history that teams Shouldn't be getting in matchups like this and when it happens (which almost never by now) the winning team does have the talent and knowledge to employ means to call off the dogs.

Winning 12-0 at this age makes a coach look like more of an ass and less like a good coach.

well the effort has to be there from the coach. I would also assume it would be easier to call them off as they get older too. We have seen our coach get very creative to occupy the girls minds and keep them from scoring.

Btw who was playing?

I guess I should clarify why I ask. No top team would be in a game where they win like that. Was this a rec game? I just don't see 12-0 in academy at this age.

No bother to report. I just assumed this couldn't be prime time but checked the scores. So sting placed their top ten tgpl team in silver. Nice. Well too bad goals can't carry over. If they are playing next weekend they'll need them.

bobmac15 wrote:No bother to report. I just assumed this couldn't be prime time but checked the scores. So sting placed their top ten tgpl team in silver. Nice. Well too bad goals can't carry over. If they are playing next weekend they'll need them.

Sting didn't place their Top team in the silver bracket. This was a last min. call by PrimeTime. They had a team drop out so they reached out to Sting to fill in so there would be a even number of teams.

DT4L wrote:

bobmac15 wrote:No bother to report. I just assumed this couldn't be prime time but checked the scores. So sting placed their top ten tgpl team in silver. Nice. Well too bad goals can't carry over. If they are playing next weekend they'll need them.

Sting didn't place their Top team in the silver bracket. This was a last min. call by PrimeTime. They had a team drop out so they reached out to Sting to fill in so there would be a even number of teams.

Not a "last minute" call by prime time.

Other more appropriate level teams tried to register a week+ ago but told it was too late.

Thanks everyone.. I was just trying to figure out when the running of a score would ever be appropriate. I have played sports my entire life and I thought it was a code of ethics between coaches that you do not attempt to humiliate another team. Especially at 10 years old. Honestly, I have not seen it done but I haven't watched a lot of NTX games either. In situations like this... my girls coaches whether Academy or Rec have moved the offense and defense around and put in a sub goalie, play down a player or two, or even my 04's team will be ordered to pass the ball, move up and down the field, but never shoot.

Although the team may have been a last minute fill in.. I personally think they had a responsibility to keep the score down once they clearly had the game in hand. Work on passing, work on skills, work on your left foot skills for goodness sakes but don't keep attacking the goal with two and three players and pummeling the ball into the net.

As a parent, I would never allow a team my dd played on to do something like that without saying something. I would have thought a parent or even the Team Manager would have had the presence of mind to walk over and talk to the coach at 6-0, 7-0, 8-0, 9-0... really.. 12-0 on the big field.

I felt like I was watching a bully beat up on a child and I just sat and watched it happen and didn't step in. I would hope in the future... I would not sit back again. And I would hope in the future one of their parents from this team, or any team, would not allow this to occur either.

We all have a responsibility to each other like it or not.. we are in this because our daughter loves to play the game. We are in it to teach them to play, win gracefully, lose gracefully.. a lot of life lessons in teams sports and they are big ones so teach them WELL. IMO there is a right and wrong way to play and what I witnessed was just wrong.

02Dad wrote:

DT4L wrote:

bobmac15 wrote:No bother to report. I just assumed this couldn't be prime time but checked the scores. So sting placed their top ten tgpl team in silver. Nice. Well too bad goals can't carry over. If they are playing next weekend they'll need them.

Sting didn't place their Top team in the silver bracket. This was a last min. call by PrimeTime. They had a team drop out so they reached out to Sting to fill in so there would be a even number of teams.

Not a "last minute" call by prime time.

Other more appropriate level teams tried to register a week+ ago but told it was too late.

Please, let's not start with the conspiracy theories this early on Monday morning.

I'll be the contrarian here.

Why was the same goalie still in the net after giving up 9, 10, 11 & 12 goals? The coach of the losing team needs to wise up and let that goalie out to save her. Leaving her in there in a blowout gives her no benefit. Even if he/she doesn't have a backup, the game was lost and his/her squad couldn't stop the opponent, so why risk the goalie's psyche? Just let the girl rest and have some fun on the field instead. Tell the goalie something like, "OK, they got us good today. That's the type of team we want to be. That’s where we’re headed. Now I'm going to put you out there at forward. Just go bonkers running around and try to get one of those goals back. Show them how you don't quit. Show everyone here how good of a player you are."

For an '02 team, you want your girls scoring goals and scoring goals often. As a coach, you spend all your time teaching them how to score goals in practice. Now suddenly you need to tell your team to stop? If you want to have that "off switch" for games then YOU HAVE TO TEACH THEM HOW TO DO THAT!!!! You have to teach them that during practice times. I definitely think good sportsmanship needs to be emphasized but as a coach you can't just say "OK, no more goals now." and not expect mass confusion on the field. These 10 year-olds can't just switch off everything they've ever been taught about what to do in a soccer game in an instant.

With that said... How many '02s coaches right now (with QT coming very soon) are dedicating practice time on teaching their kids how NOT to score goals?

oldboot wrote:

02Dad wrote:

DT4L wrote:

bobmac15 wrote:No bother to report. I just assumed this couldn't be prime time but checked the scores. So sting placed their top ten tgpl team in silver. Nice. Well too bad goals can't carry over. If they are playing next weekend they'll need them.

Sting didn't place their Top team in the silver bracket. This was a last min. call by PrimeTime. They had a team drop out so they reached out to Sting to fill in so there would be a even number of teams.

Not a "last minute" call by prime time.

Other more appropriate level teams tried to register a week+ ago but told it was too late.

Please, let's not start with the conspiracy theories this early on Monday morning.

Go back to bed then.

I've been up for hours already and it's a beautiful day.

02Dad wrote:

oldboot wrote:

02Dad wrote:

DT4L wrote:

bobmac15 wrote:No bother to report. I just assumed this couldn't be prime time but checked the scores. So sting placed their top ten tgpl team in silver. Nice. Well too bad goals can't carry over. If they are playing next weekend they'll need them.

Sting didn't place their Top team in the silver bracket. This was a last min. call by PrimeTime. They had a team drop out so they reached out to Sting to fill in so there would be a even number of teams.

Not a "last minute" call by prime time.

Other more appropriate level teams tried to register a week+ ago but told it was too late.

Please, let's not start with the conspiracy theories this early on Monday morning.

Go back to bed then.

I've been up for hours already and it's a beautiful day.

And you are certainly a spreader of sunshine!

Regardless of why the team was in the silver division.. doesn't really matter. They should have held the score down.

From what I understood from the sidelines.. the goalie for the losing team was not there this weekend. The back up goalie was hurt in the earlier game, maybe early in this game not sure, and this was the back up to the back up. I agree she COULD have been taken out but to put someone back there with no experience at taking shots may not have been the best solution either. You don't want them to get hurt. This team was shooting and shooting hard..

Funny but my 04's team has never practiced holding the score down either but the very first time it happened.. the coach told them to turn it off, no shots on goal, only pass and they did it.. no confusion. No questions asked. They just did it. They may have lost the ball a time or two in the process but they were clearly in command and got the ball back anyway. If an 04 team can do it then certainly an 02 team can, too. It is ludicrous to think that they do not have the skill at this age to stop shooting and start passing the ball. They are not mindless scoring machines. It is also silly to think the coach couldn't make some changes to the line up, moving players, taking out a player... to slow the scoring down.

I understand you taking the opposing view, I agree the goalie could have been taken out.. but the entire team was being pummeled not just the goalie. I am sure it affected them all..

mamasoccer wrote:Regardless of why the team was in the silver division.. doesn't really matter. They should have held the score down.

From what I understood from the sidelines.. the goalie for the losing team was not there this weekend. The back up goalie was hurt in the earlier game, maybe early in this game not sure, and this was the back up to the back up. I agree she COULD have been taken out but to put someone back there with no experience at taking shots may not have been the best solution either. You don't want them to get hurt. This team was shooting and shooting hard..

Funny but my 04's team has never practiced holding the score down either but the very first time it happened.. the coach told them to turn it off, no shots on goal, only pass and they did it.. no confusion. No questions asked. They just did it. They may have lost the ball a time or two in the process but they were clearly in command and got the ball back anyway. If an 04 team can do it then certainly an 02 team can, too. It is ludicrous to think that they do not have the skill at this age to stop shooting and start passing the ball. They are not mindless scoring machines. It is also silly to think the coach couldn't make some changes to the line up, moving players, taking out a player... to slow the scoring down.

I understand you taking the opposing view, I agree the goalie could have been taken out.. but the entire team was being pummeled not just the goalie. I am sure it affected them all..

I understand your points. I wasn't at the game so I cannot speak to any of the details. Maybe the opposing coach left the starting lineup on the field. Maybe the coach did make the changes everyone is prompting for (i.e. Moving the regular defenders to forwards and vice versa.) but all the girls were so skilled no one noticed a drop off. Maybe that coach has taught the players to work everywhere on the field. I don't know.

I do know that when you let a player that's served as a defender out of her 'cage' for half a game and tell her to go play forward... she's going to try to score a goal. If you tell your starting goalie to play on the field, she's going to do whatever she can to show her parents that she can score a goal for them to see. After all, they're kids too. They want to see the ball come off their foot and into the back of the net too.

I've been blown out 0-12(+) in game before as a coach and as a player. It stinks, I know, but I've never left those games blaming the other team. Me, my teammates, and my players are not victims so I don't treat us as such. We talk about what went wrong. We get back to practice and we talk about what we did right and what we did wrong so that it doesn't happen again. We do not get mad at the other team and blame them for our shortcomings. we use it to improve instead.

I think you're wrong when you say they have a "responsibility" to hold the score down. I don't believe any such responsibility exists.

It would have been nice to do so, and I personally believe its what they should have done, but to say that they have a responsibility to hold back is way off base.

Sportsmanship and responsibility are two different things. Sportsmanship can be very subjective. When does the scoring stop? After 5 goals, 8 goals, 10 goals, etc. Responsibility isn't as subjective, and I don't believe they have any such responsibility.

Its a shame, and my dd's team would never have done it, but Karma can be a b___h, and it will likely come back to bite them at some point.

Next year when you get to select, goals scored is a tie breaker so don't expect any mercy. Plus, I believe in rotating girls in and around, but never want them to stop trying. Plus, to me, it is more disrespectful if the other team stops trying. I want their best, it will make my kids better.

Fair enough.. sportsmanship. I only said "responsibility" because it was a top 10 team playing in the Silver Division. If you know you are not playing in the correct division and you have encountered a team that is clearly well beneath your teams skills.. I felt there was an obligation to do the right thing.

It surely was a learning lesson for the losing team.. it could have been a really good lesson for the winning team, too. But oh well.. they got to show off for their parents, score a bunch of goals, and hear the cheer of the crowd and watch another team cry. Good for them.

I suppose you are right.. Karma. I wonder if they encounter a team and the shoe is on the other foot... will the other team do what they did or will they take the high road. I guess we will see...

NTX soccer... hmmm. Maybe there needs to be a few changes.

Good to know Select soccer isn't much better but at the very least they section them off into more appropriate levels so that the total mismatch is less likely to occur.

mamasoccer wrote:Regardless of why the team was in the silver division.. doesn't really matter. They should have held the score down.

From what I understood from the sidelines.. the goalie for the losing team was not there this weekend. The back up goalie was hurt in the earlier game, maybe early in this game not sure, and this was the back up to the back up. I agree she COULD have been taken out but to put someone back there with no experience at taking shots may not have been the best solution either. You don't want them to get hurt. This team was shooting and shooting hard..

Funny but my 04's team has never practiced holding the score down either but the very first time it happened.. the coach told them to turn it off, no shots on goal, only pass and they did it.. no confusion. No questions asked. They just did it. They may have lost the ball a time or two in the process but they were clearly in command and got the ball back anyway. If an 04 team can do it then certainly an 02 team can, too. It is ludicrous to think that they do not have the skill at this age to stop shooting and start passing the ball. They are not mindless scoring machines. It is also silly to think the coach couldn't make some changes to the line up, moving players, taking out a player... to slow the scoring down.

I understand you taking the opposing view, I agree the goalie could have been taken out.. but the entire team was being pummeled not just the goalie. I am sure it affected them all..

I do not like running up the score any more than any one else but... When you take coaching classes, not NTX classes but National classes, (I have two from different two different certification bodies), one will never hear or be taught to tell the kids to stop scoring. You are taught the opposite, do not tell them to stop, instead encourage pssing back, switching the attack, string together passes ect... Even when a coach moves girls out of position or plays his bench players when a game is out of hand what do you expect those girls to do? Bench players like to score and so do defenders, its a tough break but it's hard to tell a kid that doesn't play as much or rarely gets to attack not to score. When parents make the coice to put thier kids in "select" they need to be prepared for things like this....