Playing for results and standings vs. teaching the game

How many coaches teaching tactics to gain a result rather than teaching the game?

On select teams where relegation and promotion is in play, does anything else other than winning matter?

totalsoccer wrote:How many coaches teaching tactics to gain a result rather than teaching the game?

Aren't tactics part of the game?

Sorry but it's hard to bang on a coach for teaching the kids an aspect of the game.

When coaches teach tactics the intent is to help the team win games. I'm sitting here trying to think of a tactic that ISN'T intended to win games for you. I can't think of any.

tactics are part of the game, but any coach should teach both. Up to about 10 it should be 80-100% skills and small sided games. Ideally that would continue till 14 but realistically by U14 the split should lean toward small sided games, drills, and scrimmages. A player should alwayswork individually on deficient skills in order to play at whatever level the team is at. Now as far as emphasizing tactics to win, thats a different bird. If your coach believes that by possessing the ball your team will win then go for it at u6. If you mean finding the biggest kid in the league and firing the ball upfront every possession then the answer is never.

Is it appropriate to ignore individual skills practice during the season and instead concentrate on how to beat the other team at say the u11/u12 level? What if practice time is spent on analyzing the other team's tendencies and tactics are put into place each week to overcome the next opponent?

Itsme wrote:

totalsoccer wrote:How many coaches teaching tactics to gain a result rather than teaching the game?

Aren't tactics part of the game?

It seems that a lot of game tactics being used are more to emphasize standings and results than the development of the child. ex. bunker play vs.high and low pressure.

I don’t know maybe not keeping standings and decreasing the emphasis on league play and increasing emphasis on tournament and small sided might relieve some of the pressure of just gaining a result. What do you guys think?

Roadrunner42 wrote:Is it appropriate to ignore individual skills practice during the season and instead concentrate on how to beat the other team at say the u11/u12 level? What if practice time is spent on analyzing the other team's tendencies and tactics are put into place each week to overcome the next opponent?

Appropriate? Maybe. If the parents are ok with it and the wins keep coming, it should work for a while. It's obviously piss poor for player development.

02Dad wrote:On select teams where relegation and promotion is in play, does anything else other than winning matter?

I agree with you! It does seem in NTX soccer nothing else matters!

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

Roadrunner42 wrote:Is it appropriate to ignore individual skills practice during the season and instead concentrate on how to beat the other team at say the u11/u12 level? What if practice time is spent on analyzing the other team's tendencies and tactics are put into place each week to overcome the next opponent?

Appropriate? Maybe. If the parent's are ok with it and the W's keep coming, it should work for a while. It's obviously piss poor for player development.

It seems that we are just teaching towards the test rather than developing players. Lets just start giving out all the answers.

Well, I have to think that I am hearing a case for filming opponents and having game reviews and tatics sessions in lieu of practice. Heck, they do it in high school, college and professional football - why not the real FOOTBALL? Each team can have covert parents staked out at the next opponent's game to get film. And while they are at it, they can do some scouting for next season. Why hasn't anyone already thought of this? (Umm, wait a minute, perhaps they have. Who is that guy in the hat, sunglasses and trenchcoat on the sidelines over there?) Hey fella, come here, I want to talk to you!! (Why is the guy running? I was just going to pay him for a copy of his video?)

InaB wrote:Well, I have to think that I am hearing a case for filming opponents and having game reviews and tatics sessions in lieu of practice. Heck, they do it in high school, college and professional football - why not the real FOOTBALL? Each team can have covert parents staked out at the next opponent's game to get film. And while they are at it, they can do some scouting for next season. Why hasn't anyone already thought of this? (Umm, wait a minute, perhaps they have. Who is that guy in the hat, sunglasses and trenchcoat on the sidelines over there?) Hey fella, come here, I want to talk to you!! (Why is the guy running? I was just going to pay him for a copy of his video?)

IMO there are very, very few coaches/teams guilty of this hyper focus on game planning, filming and scouting Ulittle opponents and spending an inordinate amount of practice time on weekly tactics geared toward getting the minimum required standings points against team X.

There may be others, but I only know of one.

They know they are; we know they are. It's no secret.

If you signed up for it, you knew what you were getting. Why complain now? Just accept the good with the bad in the deal you struck.

Most everyone else looks to me like they're striking a reasonable balance between getting game results and doing what's best for the talent they have at their disposal. This is a non issue for most.

Roadrunner42 wrote:Is it appropriate to ignore individual skills practice during the season and instead concentrate on how to beat the other team at say the u11/u12 level? What if practice time is spent on analyzing the other team's tendencies and tactics are put into place each week to overcome the next opponent?

If you are a coach and want to survive in the existing environment(keep your team/keep getting paid)it is.

No wins, no bye, no team, no $.

InaB wrote:Well, I have to think that I am hearing a case for filming opponents and having game reviews and tatics sessions in lieu of practice. Heck, they do it in high school, college and professional football - why not the real FOOTBALL? Each team can have covert parents staked out at the next opponent's game to get film. And while they are at it, they can do some scouting for next season. Why hasn't anyone already thought of this? (Umm, wait a minute, perhaps they have. Who is that guy in the hat, sunglasses and trenchcoat on the sidelines over there?) Hey fella, come here, I want to talk to you!! (Why is the guy running? I was just going to pay him for a copy of his video?)

Who needs to film teams! we play each other so much!

All good points! Great dialogue!

If I film it's to watch my DD and see what things she is doing well and what to improve. We dont watch her game film together. [edit] Not anymore anyway.[/edit]

If dd's coach ever asked me to film I'd do it in a heartbeat because I know he is focused on our dd's more than scouting the other team.

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:If I film it's to watch my DD and see what things she is doing well and what to improve. We dont watch her game film together. [edit] Not anymore anyway.[/edit]

If dd's coach ever asked me to film I'd do it in a heartbeat because I know he is focused on our dd's more than scouting the other team.

Film and game analysis is an excellent learning tool!

totalsoccer wrote:

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:If I film it's to watch my DD and see what things she is doing well and what to improve. We dont watch her game film together. [edit] Not anymore anyway.[/edit]

If dd's coach ever asked me to film I'd do it in a heartbeat because I know he is focused on our dd's more than scouting the other team.

Film and game analysis is an excellent learning tool!

To be used sparingly. Especially at 9,10,11. Overdone it just adds more pressure to an already over-pressurized environment, which is why I don't review game film with the DD anymore. If she wants to watch it on her own she can. If the coach wants to review something specific with her that's easier demonstrated on video - cool beans.

But spending hours each and every week going over every game's video is not the best use of her time at this age. Not when first touch needs work and the window for technique mastery is closing. Just my opinion anyway. I think relying so heavily on scouting and week to week tactics is appropriate for much older players, but counter-productive for this age and a symptom of being too heavily focused on the team result vs the player's long term development. When your DD is 11 and knows the roster, substitution patterns and common facial expressions of every LH team because she's watched so much game film, something isn't quite right.

Watching other teams and players has been good for my DD. She has not been a great student of the game, but enjoys watching her friends play!

totalsoccer wrote:Watching other teams and players has been good for my DD. She has not been a great student of the game, but enjoys watching her friends play!

Good to hear. I'm not going to Xara you for being a bad parent because you offend my sensibilities of what's acceptable for your own daughter. One kid's poison could be another kid's pill. I made my DD lookup Zidane videos. I honestly beleieve that did more for her game than all the Ulittle video she's ever seen.

my dd has never watched a Ulittle video!

totalsoccer wrote:my dd has never watched a Ulittle video!

Pardon me for being imprecise. I still refer to 11-year-olds as Ulittles. They are growing up fast.

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:

totalsoccer wrote:my dd has never watched a Ulittle video!

Pardon me for being imprecise. I still refer to 11-year-olds as Ulittles. They are growing up fast.

They are growing up to fast!

Depends on the age. But top level academy teams (top 10 ish) definitely must also teach tactics in order to win. As in, if the field is going to be big we must condition and do switching, long passing, put top players on defense, etc. Whatever percentage of time is spent on these things necessarily takes at least some time away from individual skills training (foot skills, receiving, trapping, etc). Also, a team more focused on the win pretty much has to put kids into certain positions and leave them there. The top level of competition often demands this in order to be competitive. In addition, most top level player's parents feel the need to seek additional skills training besides regular practices. Also, if a coach can keep his team in the "limelight" with wins, he/she can also draw already skilled players from other club teams, requiring less skills training. It is what it is, I guess. If your kid is a top player on a top team and you don't mind doing additional skills work, then it works for you. And it is nice for kids to get to play with other top players. Now, if your kid is just a decent player on a top team but is not developing enough skills and/or not being allowed to make mistakes or try a new position because of the fear of losing then maybe you might make the choice to find (I'm talking academy here) a team where they can get more skills and have opportunities to try new things even though the team overall w/l record is not as good. Just depends on the kids and parents I'd say.