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Post by weatherbug on 07/11/12, 09:55 pm

People seem to like video clips on here. What do you think, Intentional or Accidental? Red card worthy?

(She got a Yellow)

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Post by glitterbeam on 07/11/12, 10:00 pm

Holy crap... it looked totally intentional both times. Red card worthy imo.

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Post by ekkeeper1 on 07/11/12, 10:08 pm

Red Card Worthy. But you would think after the first time that particular player standing in front of that girl would not have stood that close.

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Post by Hook It on 07/11/12, 10:12 pm

ekkeeper1 wrote:Red Card Worthy. But you would think after the first time that particular player standing in front of that girl would not have stood that close.

RED for sure -

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Post by my2cents on 07/11/12, 10:28 pm

The referee obviously thought it was intentional as he carded it. Red card. Either serious foul play or violent conduct.

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Post by upper95 on 08/11/12, 12:32 am

Both were intentional, clearly aimed at the head of the opponent. On the first, ref crew may have thought it was accidental or incidental since the opponent was illegally within 2 yards of the thrower. The second time, the intent is clear. Red card.

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Post by ralfdallas on 08/11/12, 12:49 am

Wow! Red card. I wish refs would be more willing to red card young players who intentionally try to hurt their opponents, so maybe they'd really think twice before doing it. It's a rough enough game w/o crap like this.

My fave part of the video is the dumb-ass parent who shouts, "Way to waste time." I suspect he'd feel differently if someone did this to a player on his kid's team.

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Post by Coach&Ref on 08/11/12, 12:55 am

At least in the first hit, it looked like the opposition player was not respecting the required distance of two yards from the throw in (at least from the angle). I guess the ref thought it was just careless and reckless for the second throw rather than violent conduct or serious foul play.

It is hard to see a clip without being the ref and getting a "feel" for how the game was progressing (history of the players, physicality of the match, etc.) One clue (kinda) was the guy in the background saying, "Way to waste time", which implies to me that the blue team might have been ahead and trying to block the throw. The second time the girl got hit, it looked like she was slowly retreating as to still waste time. The girl in white could have just had enough of the time wasting and blasted her with it. It's like you see during many free kicks where a kid will stand in front of the ball to prevent a "quick kick" and the kicker quickly blasts the other kid with the ball in the face or anywhere else. The kicker is obviously trying to get the other kid carded for not respecting the required distance or time wasting. The blocking kid IS just trying to delay the restart on purpose. So, who is at fault? Shocked

This is why it all comes down to: IN THE OPINION OF THE REFEREE! lol!

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Post by bigtex75081 on 08/11/12, 07:18 am

Red. It looks like the referee even warned the thrower after the first knock.

If you think either of those throws were an accident then ask yourself this, "If the ball didn't hit the girl in the head, what was the thrower's target?" She was throwing it so hard that it appears her only intended target was the girl's head.

A male parent/coach yells out "...all game." These two may have been going back and forth for a while.
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Post by weatherbug on 08/11/12, 08:05 am

For reference, this is the article where I first saw this video. This is an Amherst College game.

http://now.msn.com/emily-little-amherst-soccer-player-throws-ball-off-opponents-face
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Post by Guest on 08/11/12, 08:16 am

Something to think about is the player in blue should have been warned to back away from the thrower and could even have received a yellow card herself if the ref so decided (for not being at least 2 yards away). The player in white can throw the ball at an opposing player, but not with that kind of force or wrecklessness. The first throw was at least a yellow. Second one would then, by law, have been a red card.

Here's something ironic, however, to consider. A player can't deliberately bust an opponent in the head with a throw-in. But a player taking a free-kick can deliberately pop a ball at 100 mph toward the head of a player in the wall. So if you want to get back at a player for something, just wait until the free-kick and aim well.


Last edited by Xara on 08/11/12, 08:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on 08/11/12, 08:19 am

Red card. We have no one but ourselves to blame. If you accept thug behavior , you turn our game into a farce like hockey. See ya have a seat on he bench so the real game can be played.

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Post by golgolgol on 08/11/12, 08:36 am

I coached a rec team a few years ago, and the volunteer parent that coached them before me actually told the girls this is how you do a throw in if the other team is too close. She even demonstrated on a friend of mine's dd, hitting her in the face with the ball.

That coach was something else. She had many more great pearls of wisdom that she 'taught' those poor kids. So many, in fact, that she was asked to step down from coaching and not return.
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Post by Guest on 08/11/12, 08:44 am

I have actually heard parents yell kick them in the face at an 11 year old game. Shameful. Don't know why ordinary people turn nuts but it's sad. Kick an 11 year old in the face ? what is the world coming to?

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Post by Number07 on 08/11/12, 09:13 am

In the article it says the white team was winning 1-0. Pretty stupid for their player To pull something like this in a game they are up
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Post by InaB on 08/11/12, 09:25 am

This is called win at all costs. I have seen (and heard) many parents (and coaches) yell at their girls to take out a player (in English and other languages). I have heard them yell sweep her, trip her, use your fist, kick her heel, etc., etc. The problem is that in spite of the fact that we have a lot of good refs, we have some that have allowed such behavior. Part of it was a lack of authority to do something, some was from either lack of attention or ignorance of the rules. Teams who play dirty can only play dirty if allowed. If refs card appropriately when behavior like this occurs, eventually the team 1) Gets carded enough for further league action, 2) Gets tired of losing because they can't play the rock em sock em soccer, 3) gets run out of the league, or any and all of the above. Extreme aggressive behavior is not playing soccer, Rugby maybe, WWE definitely, soccer NOPE. I have to wonder what extremely aggressive players have to drink or eat before they hit the field - steroid du jour? Cool

I know I would not want to be a ref because it is a very, very difficult job. I was actually happy when they instituted new and stiffer rules this year at LH. I have seen refs really using the new rules effectively. I may not always agree with their rulings, but if the Ref calls to the best of his or her ability and it is equally called, then I can't really complain. (OK, I could still complain but with a lot less fervor.) If you see a ref who doesn't call correctly then write down what happened and send it to the head of the refs for the league. No, it won't get the ref canned, but it gives the head of the refs something to teach the offending ref. If you had a ref that made great calls on both sides, then let the head of the refs know that he or she did a great job. If we complain and compliment equally, it gives the league an idea of who needs more help and who they can depend on to do good work. They can even decide that a ref who has been talked to and still receives constant complaints should no longer be a league ref.

Have a great day and get your DD to stand two yards back on a throw-in. Shocked
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Post by golgolgol on 08/11/12, 09:37 am

LOL.... great comment on the original article mentioned:

My company's firewall won't let me watch a video titled "College Girl Takes Two Balls to Face"
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Post by my2cents on 08/11/12, 01:29 pm

InaB wrote:This is called win at all costs. I have seen (and heard) many parents (and coaches) yell at their girls to take out a player (in English and other languages). I have heard them yell sweep her, trip her, use your fist, kick her heel, etc., etc. The problem is that in spite of the fact that we have a lot of good refs, we have some that have allowed such behavior. Part of it was a lack of authority to do something, some was from either lack of attention or ignorance of the rules. Teams who play dirty can only play dirty if allowed. If refs card appropriately when behavior like this occurs, eventually the team 1) Gets carded enough for further league action, 2) Gets tired of losing because they can't play the rock em sock em soccer, 3) gets run out of the league, or any and all of the above. Extreme aggressive behavior is not playing soccer, Rugby maybe, WWE definitely, soccer NOPE. I have to wonder what extremely aggressive players have to drink or eat before they hit the field - steroid du jour? Cool

I know I would not want to be a ref because it is a very, very difficult job. I was actually happy when they instituted new and stiffer rules this year at LH. I have seen refs really using the new rules effectively. I may not always agree with their rulings, but if the Ref calls to the best of his or her ability and it is equally called, then I can't really complain. (OK, I could still complain but with a lot less fervor.) If you see a ref who doesn't call correctly then write down what happened and send it to the head of the refs for the league. No, it won't get the ref canned, but it gives the head of the refs something to teach the offending ref. If you had a ref that made great calls on both sides, then let the head of the refs know that he or she did a great job. If we complain and compliment equally, it gives the league an idea of who needs more help and who they can depend on to do good work. They can even decide that a ref who has been talked to and still receives constant complaints should no longer be a league ref.

Have a great day and get your DD to stand two yards back on a throw-in. Shocked

This why I would like to see more from league officials and refereees in enforcing the various league codes of conduct like Classic League and others have.

If a rostered team or club representative is unable to control a team’s spectators, they are to immediately notify a member of the Classic League Board on duty so that the Classic League may take appropriate action toward the identifiable unruly spectator(s); or, if unidentifiable, toward the team itself and those individuals responsible for the team. Referees may suspend play and request coaches (or other rostered individuals) to intervene with regard to and to calm down, control and/or remove (i) unruly spectators, (ii) spectators that are demonstrating unsportsmanlike behavior and (iii) spectators that the referee is having any other problem with. Referees can and will abandon games when spectator conduct
CL RULES – PAGE 24 OF 31
July 2012
becomes too disruptive or if individuals requested to leave the field or the surroundings fail to immediately leave as requested.


Encouraging a player to hurt another should be an immediate ejection from the complex by anyone authorized to do so that hears it. Admins should not wait until requested. If they hear it they should act.

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Post by Its Me on 08/11/12, 01:48 pm

Red Card without hesitation!

You have to look at the pace and speed of the throw of the first ball. The speed at which she through the first ball the player in white is too close to control the ball at that distance. Especially since they're in the corner and close to goal line.

Same reasoning applies to the second throw.

If the throw was from midfield maybe a yellow.

Striking or an attempt to strike. RED!
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Post by twotone on 09/11/12, 12:38 am

This is a college game and the college game is officiated differently. it just is.

noone is sure what's happened between these 2 teams or players, but something has and that's pretty clear. what it looks like, however, is the thrower is actually attempting to hit the blue player in order to get the ball back herself and play with her feet. that's why she runs onto the field quickly to get the ball. it doesnt make it right, but it does catch everyone involved off guard. when she does it the second time she proves she's intending to hit the blue player, but it may not be Violent Conduct.

again, the college games is reffed differently than federation or league games.

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Post by Its Me on 09/11/12, 07:39 am

twotone wrote:This is a college game and the college game is officiated differently. it just is.

noone is sure what's happened between these 2 teams or players, but something has and that's pretty clear. what it looks like, however, is the thrower is actually attempting to hit the blue player in order to get the ball back herself and play with her feet. that's why she runs onto the field quickly to get the ball. it doesnt make it right, but it does catch everyone involved off guard. when she does it the second time she proves she's intending to hit the blue player, but it may not be Violent Conduct.

again, the college games is reffed differently than federation or league games.

I would totally agree that you allow more physical play during college games. And Yes I have seen players play the ball off of the backs or body of other players or their own player. (Not headshots) However, I don't know the tone of the game but I can guarantee you that the first ball was not an attempt to play the ball off her that close. It's all about the referees perception of the play. I wouldn't hesitate to make that call. If you don't control your game I promise it will get harder to sell that call later.

Most of the time when referees allow something to happen and then not call it, players will take it into their own hands. And they're right when they say, "You didn't call it earlier and why are you going to call it now". A Foul is a Foul regardless of the tone. Control your game, talk to the players or the players will. Most of the time when you talk to the players and the players see that the referee has gone back to address the situation the players will tone down. As play is continue get the number of the offending player and address him/her at the next throw-in or goal kid. Let the players know hey I got your back. Trust me they're watching to see if you're addressing the player.
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Post by Guest on 09/11/12, 07:56 am

twotone wrote:This is a college game and the college game is officiated differently. it just is.

noone is sure what's happened between these 2 teams or players, but something has and that's pretty clear. what it looks like, however, is the thrower is actually attempting to hit the blue player in order to get the ball back herself and play with her feet. that's why she runs onto the field quickly to get the ball. it doesnt make it right, but it does catch everyone involved off guard. when she does it the second time she proves she's intending to hit the blue player, but it may not be Violent Conduct.

again, the college games is reffed differently than federation or league games.

Do what? The white player's throw ins are the definition of violent play. See the "excessive force" part of the rule. That's why the ref (finally) pulled the yellow card out:

If a player, while correctly taking a throw-in, intentionally throws the
ball at an opponent in order to play the ball again but neither in a
careless nor a reckless manner nor using excessive force, the referee
must allow play to continue.

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Post by Its Me on 09/11/12, 08:18 am

15.8 THROW-IN STRIKES AN OPPONENT
A throw-in taken in such a way that the ball strikes an opponent is not by itself a violation of the Law.
The act must be evaluated separately as a form of striking and dealt with appropriately if judged to be
unsporting behavior (caution) or violent conduct (send off from the field). In either event, if deemed a
violation, the restart is located at the place where the throw-in struck the opponent. If the throw-in is
deemed to have been taken incorrectly, the correct restart is a throw-in.

Of course, Advice to Referees covers everything! I love that book! Very Happy
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Post by twotone on 09/11/12, 11:28 am

I clearly stated before and after my post that the college game is officiated differently. i'm not sure where you both got confused on that part.

You both are quoting FIFA or US federation LOTG points. college soccer is governed by the NCAA rulebook. There is no such thing as Violent Conduct in the NCAA rules. it's not there.

i won't defend the referee or either player on this, just give observations to support a yellow card being the correct outcome.

-the first throw-in goes in the direction of a white player (teammate of the thrower) with the blue defender standing in between the ball and the teammate. after the defender is hit in the head, the thrower raises her hands in an "i didnt mean to do that" manner and the referee gives her the benefit of the doubt but moves closer to the play. maybe he says a word & maybe he doesnt but he ends up less than 5 yards from the play, perhaps smelling something coming. Again, this is college soccer style management, nothing else. Ref decides not intentional but i need to be here just in case....

-the second throw is the issue. the thrower realizes "oh wait, if it bounces off the defender then i can get it and play myself" and she throws the ball at the defender. it hits her in the face. the thrower reacts to go get the ball and continue playing, not to say "oops" like the first throw and not to walk away defiantly to suggest "that girl's face shouldn't have been in the way of my throw" and not to stand over her in an intimidating way. the referee was on top of it used those clues to show that there was misconduct but not violent behavior displayed by the thrower. so he gives a caution, stops the clock and allows the situation to settle while the defender gets her bearings.

this is managed properly in the college setting. he could've given a red card but the Ejection (college rule) would've been for Fighting (college rule). does that look like a fight to you?

that same referee might've managed it differently in a U17 girls game or a men's amateur game, which are governed by the LOTG. there are different rules in play though.

college soccer is a different game.

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