ODP Sub Regional Event in Edmonds OK

wilatnus wrote:It seems pretty clear that for the 02/03 group, they have already setup where they think everyone stands coming into things. Even in the positional trainings, it seems with few changes, same groups of DD's together each session. For those with older ones already through this process, when do they formally let you know where you stand, and how often do DD's move up or down?

They dont move up or down, they know who they want the rest are just payers...

silentparent wrote:

wilatnus wrote:It seems pretty clear that for the 02/03 group, they have already setup where they think everyone stands coming into things. Even in the positional trainings, it seems with few changes, same groups of DD's together each session. For those with older ones already through this process, when do they formally let you know where you stand, and how often do DD's move up or down?

They dont move up or down, they know who they want the rest are just payers...

What do you mean? Are you saying that the top teams don't have to pay and the others do or that everyone pays, but that the majority of people that don't really have a shot at the top are just adding money to the pot?

I haven't been through this process, so it's all new to me.

Coach&Ref wrote:

silentparent wrote:

wilatnus wrote:It seems pretty clear that for the 02/03 group, they have already setup where they think everyone stands coming into things. Even in the positional trainings, it seems with few changes, same groups of DD's together each session. For those with older ones already through this process, when do they formally let you know where you stand, and how often do DD's move up or down?

They dont move up or down, they know who they want the rest are just payers...

What do you mean? Are you saying that the top teams don't have to pay and the others do or that everyone pays, but that the majority of people that don't really have a shot at the top are just adding money to the pot?

I haven't been through this process, so it's all new to me.

I am saying that they know who they want on the two top teams and very very few move up to those teams or down from those teams....

Don't see how they can make an accurate assessment after only 2 practices. Some are also only 10 and there is no way to tell how they will end up physically.

silentparent wrote:

Coach&Ref wrote:

silentparent wrote:

wilatnus wrote:It seems pretty clear that for the 02/03 group, they have already setup where they think everyone stands coming into things. Even in the positional trainings, it seems with few changes, same groups of DD's together each session. For those with older ones already through this process, when do they formally let you know where you stand, and how often do DD's move up or down?

They dont move up or down, they know who they want the rest are just payers...

What do you mean? Are you saying that the top teams don't have to pay and the others do or that everyone pays, but that the majority of people that don't really have a shot at the top are just adding money to the pot?

I haven't been through this process, so it's all new to me.

I am saying that they know who they want on the two top teams and very very few move up to those teams or down from those teams....

Even with only the few practices that we have had? I do see how my girl has stayed with pretty much the same group for a few of the practices, but didn't know what that meant. I guess it means that they have those players already placed from what I'm extrapolating.

The other question is that the groups were a mixture of 03s and 02s. Will that matter? In other words, will the group she was with for the majority of the time include both age groups?

silentparent wrote:

Coach&Ref wrote:

silentparent wrote:

wilatnus wrote:It seems pretty clear that for the 02/03 group, they have already setup where they think everyone stands coming into things. Even in the positional trainings, it seems with few changes, same groups of DD's together each session. For those with older ones already through this process, when do they formally let you know where you stand, and how often do DD's move up or down?

They dont move up or down, they know who they want the rest are just payers...

What do you mean? Are you saying that the top teams don't have to pay and the others do or that everyone pays, but that the majority of people that don't really have a shot at the top are just adding money to the pot?

I haven't been through this process, so it's all new to me.

I am saying that they know who they want on the two top teams and very very few move up to those teams or down from those teams....

This is false....for a number of reasons. Firstly the young teams have newer odp coaches who are typically trying to make a name for themselves in the market. From what I can tell, they can identify talent but they don't do that great a job stratifying the talent. They slot girls unto teams, but it's not until they get to that first camp that the coaches really get a true feel and a meaningful ranking of the players. I know personally of quite a few girls moved up to top teams during the first year summer camp.

Secondly, a massive number of the top players either drop odp after the first year, or never try out in the first place. Holes open up on the top teams due to attrition. Odp has some of the best players, but definitely not most of them. Aside from the fact some ecnl clubs discourage odp participation, my hunch is the top players look around on their odp team, see a lot of kids they know wouldn't have any shot making their club team, and decide odp isn't worth the time.

My advice is stick with it if your dd enjoys and don't worry about the teams. Odp doesn't matter much until u14 - u15 anyway, and even then only if the kid is good enough to make the regional pools or the interregional events. The landscape of who all are considered the top players changes quite a bit from 10 to 15 years old, and odp coaches are more experienced at the older ages and better able to evaluate talent. Until then, just look at it as good, low cost training giving your kid more voices from which to learn. Odp top team at u11/u12 means next to nothing in the big picture.

4-3-3 wrote:

silentparent wrote:

Coach&Ref wrote:

silentparent wrote:

wilatnus wrote:It seems pretty clear that for the 02/03 group, they have already setup where they think everyone stands coming into things. Even in the positional trainings, it seems with few changes, same groups of DD's together each session. For those with older ones already through this process, when do they formally let you know where you stand, and how often do DD's move up or down?

They dont move up or down, they know who they want the rest are just payers...

What do you mean? Are you saying that the top teams don't have to pay and the others do or that everyone pays, but that the majority of people that don't really have a shot at the top are just adding money to the pot?

I haven't been through this process, so it's all new to me.

I am saying that they know who they want on the two top teams and very very few move up to those teams or down from those teams....

This is false....for a number of reasons. Firstly the young teams have newer odp coaches who are typically trying to make a name for themselves in the market. From what I can tell, they can identify talent but they don't do that great a job stratifying the talent. They slot girls unto teams, but it's not until they get to that first camp that the coaches really get a true feel and a meaningful ranking of the players. I know personally of quite a few girls moved up to top teams during the first year summer camp.

Secondly, a massive number of the top players either drop odp after the first year, or never try out in the first place. Holes open up on the top teams due to attrition. Odp has some of the best players, but definitely not most of them. Aside from the fact some ecnl clubs discourage odp participation, my hunch is the top players look around on their odp team, see a lot of kids they know wouldn't have any shot making their club team, and decide odp isn't worth the time.

My advice is stick with it if your dd enjoys and don't worry about the teams. Odp doesn't matter much until u14 - u15 anyway, and even then only if the kid is good enough to make the regional pools or the interregional events. The landscape of who all are considered the top players changes quite a bit from 10 to 15 years old, and odp coaches are more experienced at the older ages and better able to evaluate talent. Until then, just look at it as good, low cost training giving your kid more voices from which to learn. Odp top team at u11/u12 means next to nothing in the big picture.

This.

I wouldn't say odp doesn't matter at all. The numbers tell me a very good player coming through the top levels of odp has a far better  chance getting money to a solid d1 program than a mediocre player coming off the bench of an ECNL team.

Last time I ran numbers, of about 1500 commits nationally, 60pct were players from ECNL clubs and 40pct were non ECNL. 20pct of all commits listed odp on their player resume. 10pct of all commits listed odp inter regional participation.

The average RPI of commited schools was lowest for the 900+ ECNL commits, averaging about 125. The RPI was highest for odp inter regional players, about 60, and odp overall avg rpi for non ecnl commits was 86...stilll significantly better than the overall ECNL average.

The only group committing to better schools than odp inter regionals participants are players who listed national team pool on their resume.  Odp may be less important in Texas, but it's definitely not dead nationally.

Correction the ECNL commits listing ECNL id2 camp in their resume avg slightly better schools than odp inter regionals...about 50 RPI....but over half those listing id2 also made odp inter regionals.

Coach&Ref wrote:

silentparent wrote:

Coach&Ref wrote:

silentparent wrote:

wilatnus wrote:It seems pretty clear that for the 02/03 group, they have already setup where they think everyone stands coming into things. Even in the positional trainings, it seems with few changes, same groups of DD's together each session. For those with older ones already through this process, when do they formally let you know where you stand, and how often do DD's move up or down?

They dont move up or down, they know who they want the rest are just payers...

What do you mean? Are you saying that the top teams don't have to pay and the others do or that everyone pays, but that the majority of people that don't really have a shot at the top are just adding money to the pot?

I haven't been through this process, so it's all new to me.

I am saying that they know who they want on the two top teams and very very few move up to those teams or down from those teams....

Even with only the few practices that we have had? I do see how my girl has stayed with pretty much the same group for a few of the practices, but didn't know what that meant. I guess it means that they have those players already placed from what I'm extrapolating.

The other question is that the groups were a mixture of 03s and 02s. Will that matter? In other words, will the group she was with for the majority of the time include both age groups?

By late spring or summer, the 02's will have their own teams. And the 03's will begin forming their own teams. Oh, and early look for the 04's will begin too...so they'll be mixed in with the 03's next year.

Coach&Ref wrote:

silentparent wrote:

Coach&Ref wrote:

silentparent wrote:

wilatnus wrote:It seems pretty clear that for the 02/03 group, they have already setup where they think everyone stands coming into things. Even in the positional trainings, it seems with few changes, same groups of DD's together each session. For those with older ones already through this process, when do they formally let you know where you stand, and how often do DD's move up or down?

They dont move up or down, they know who they want the rest are just payers...

What do you mean? Are you saying that the top teams don't have to pay and the others do or that everyone pays, but that the majority of people that don't really have a shot at the top are just adding money to the pot?

I haven't been through this process, so it's all new to me.

I am saying that they know who they want on the two top teams and very very few move up to those teams or down from those teams....

Even with only the few practices that we have had? I do see how my girl has stayed with pretty much the same group for a few of the practices, but didn't know what that meant. I guess it means that they have those players already placed from what I'm extrapolating.

The other question is that the groups were a mixture of 03s and 02s. Will that matter? In other words, will the group she was with for the majority of the time include both age groups?

Eventually, all will become clear, but I remember when my oldest started ODP, thinking that a bit more transparency would be helpful.  At a minimum, it might make people less likely to suggested that everything is predetermined - which I don't think is the case.

I wonder if sometimes parents fall back on the "it's all politics" or "it's who you know" or "it's all predetermined", if they don't see their own DD/BB at the level the parent obviously is qualified to determine for their kid....? Oh, and SP's " everyone is a payer (fool) unless it's my kid".

We paid the $300. Even if DD doesn't dress for a single game, it still comes out to only $15/hour of high quality coaching against really good competition. Still early for my academy aged 03, but so far no regrets.

DDPlays4Snacks wrote:I wonder if sometimes parents fall back on the "it's all politics" or "it's who you know" or "it's all predetermined", if they don't see their own DD/BB at the level the parent obviously is qualified to determine for their kid....?    Oh, and  SP's " everyone is a payer (fool) unless it's my kid".

what i said is odp is really about the top two teams............

[/quote]Eventually, all will become clear, but I remember when my oldest started ODP, thinking that a bit more transparency would be helpful.  At a minimum, it might make people less likely to suggested that everything is predetermined - which I don't think is the case.[/quote]
^  
I have an 02 boy, it's been a little frustrating having no idea what is going on.  Of course I might be just a touch type A, but it seems there hasn't been a whole lot of communication.

Eventually, all will become clear, but I remember when my oldest started ODP, thinking that a bit more transparency would be helpful.  At a minimum, it might make people less likely to suggested that everything is predetermined - which I don't think is the case.[/quote]^  
I have an 02 boy, it's been a little frustrating having no idea what is going on.  Of course I might be just a touch type A, but it seems there hasn't been a whole lot of communication.[/quote]

and there won't be....just the nature of odp. i like odp but a spade is a spade...

I'm with SP on this one. There's not a lot of transparency but where is there transparency in North Texas soccer, your club team? Doubtful. And yes it is all about the top two teams at some point down the road. If your kid is an 02/03 I don't really believe their fate is sealed just yet. If your kid is 00 or 01 and not progressing towards top two teams, use it for what it is which is good training. It's all a matter of perspective and putting the ODP system into context as it relates to your child and their actual abilities.

I just called about hotel information from the main number I was emailed and the coordinator told me that the ODP tournament had been canceled for this coming weekend. She said it was a decision this morning and an email should have gone out notifying people of the cancellation. Has anyone received an email yet?

Yes, around 10:00 this morning.

soccerman75 wrote:Yes, around 10:00 this morning.

Thanks. I just didn't get the email yet. It's floating around in email-land still!  

No problem, hopefully they will schedule something else before the spring tourney so the girls can get some game time, especially the 02/03s since they are new to this.