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Integrity Vanished

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Integrity Vanished

Post by koolkat on 01/07/15, 10:43 pm

Competitive soccer makes good people corrupt.

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Guest on 01/07/15, 11:00 pm

Nah, it just exposes corrupt people for what they are.

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Honcho47 on 01/07/15, 11:19 pm

Not much integrity at this age. You just have the full price players and the others

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Noob on 02/07/15, 07:30 am

koolkat wrote:Competitive soccer makes good people corrupt.

So, Player backing out that said they were committed, coach gave the impression you had a spot, etc? Do tell, we would like to know the corruption and specific club.

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by InaB on 02/07/15, 08:27 am

Kool, Soccer doesn't "make someone corrupt." There are temptations every day that we have to deal with. I have seen players, coaches and clubs make very bad decisions at times. Players/parents promising to sign and on the day of signing taking a contract with another team to the old team and saying "yeah we signed - just not with you." I have seen coaches keep a player on the string all the way to signing day and then telling them "sorry but I just found someone I like better."

Is it the correct way to handle things? No, of course not. But it seems that the days of "my word is my bond" have faded. I think it goes back to the "winning" mentality and the real purpose of playing. Of course we all want to win games (otherwise we would all just be playing in friendlies all season). Clubs want to win, coaches want to win, players want to win. But, as has been discussed here many times, is winning the ultimate goal or is becoming the very best player the goal? Some players would rather be a bench sitter on a team that is at the top of the division than to play with one that isn't. Some coaches holds players hostage just in case and then dumps them at the last minute.

Are these situations real? Yes. Are they right? No, not if you ever want people to trust you.

But, I will say this. Things work out the way they are supposed to in life. Sometimes the thing that hurts the worst turns out to be the best thing that could happen in the end.





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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by ballhead on 02/07/15, 08:58 am

I was a manager for the 8 years of my dd's select career.  Yes, there are bad coaches and managers that will keep a player hanging on that they really don't want just so they won't be left hanging at the end.  It's not right, and the heartache and stress it causes are not necessary, if everyone is up front.

But in my experience, we had many more parents commit to the team, only to no show on signing, and we'd find out that they had continued to try out for other teams after they had committed to us. Every year, we had at least one player (sometimes more) that swore they were returning, or committing to join, that disappeared this way.

It's not necessarily all about winning, but it's what happens when neither side trusts each other.  Parents are just as guilty as the coaches in orchestrating this charade, and its only the players that end up hurt in the end.  You can't just lay the blame at the coach's feet.
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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Guest on 02/07/15, 08:58 am

If mutual self-interest is not the goal, you are setting yourself up for heartbreak.

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by ballhead on 02/07/15, 09:04 am

Sho'nuff wrote:If mutual self-interest is not the goal, you are setting yourself up for heartbreak.

If by that you mean that its OK to commit to a team and no show, or that its OK for a team to lead a player on when they really don't expect to sign them, we'll have to respectfully disagree.

As a parent, you have to be aware of the situation, and be prepared in the event something goes wrong. That doesn't have to include lying to everyone.
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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Guest on 02/07/15, 09:33 am

ballhead wrote:
Sho'nuff wrote:If mutual self-interest is not the goal, you are setting yourself up for heartbreak.

If by that you mean that its OK to commit to a team and no show, or that its OK for a team to lead a player on when they really don't expect to sign them, we'll have to respectfully disagree.

As a parent, you have to be aware of the situation, and be prepared in the event something goes wrong.  That doesn't have to include lying to everyone.

I don't mean that at all. These moves are cowardly. Upfront honesty is the kind thing to do, but it often times requires a degree of meanness.

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by InaB on 02/07/15, 10:22 am

Hi Sho, I have seen many coaches in NTX give honest opinions and I totally respect them. Is it easy for a coach to tell a player that they aren't quite up to the level needed? Absolutely not and I, for one, wouldn't have the heart. So I have a deep respect for coaches who can do that.

Do all parents (who feel their DD could outplay everyone on the National Women's team) react well to honest assessments? NO. Do all players react well to it? NO.

That is why many coaches won't do it. Or will do it in a backhanded way such as "Well, Suzy has a great personality, or she really tries hard." (Sounds like my take on a few dates I went on.)

Parents should be honest and say, we are looking at several teams, and yours is definitely on our short list.
Ball, I agree that you do have to be aware of the possibilities. I can say that if a coach tells you that they really need to see your DD more, I would take that as a sign that they aren't seeing what they want or they already have players who are equal to or better than your DD. Does that mean she won't be chosen, not necessarily. But you as a parent should help your DD. Ask the coach what they are looking for. Tell the coach the positions your DD can (and would) play. Ask what qualities the coach is looking for. It is better to know if there is even a spot for your DD's strengths than to hold on when there isn't a real need. (And sometimes coaches like the player and are trying to think of a way to utilize them.)

The main thing is that just remember one coach's toss could become another's gem.
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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by YANKS ON THE PITCH on 02/07/15, 10:50 am

With Rosters of 22, 18, 16 this is a simple decision for me and many other parents out there. If your dd is not in the top 10-11 players on a team or at least 12-13 talent wise, you should be looking to find a new team (PERIOD).... BUT Oh I like the girls, Oh I like the Coach and the families, Oh I'm comfortable here. Once a kid gets over 14 if they are not playing the majority of the game (35-45+ minutes) it is your job, NAH! DUTY as a parent to step in with a reality check and make a big boy, big girl decision and find your child the correct environment. If your dd is a top 10, who cares if its DIII this scenario rarely if ever will be an issue.
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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Guest on 02/07/15, 10:56 am

All of this starts with parents ACTUALLY knowing where their daughter stands developmentally compared to those on the team she is attempting to be a part of.

The vast majority have ZERO clue and this is where the problem starts.

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Looking04 on 02/07/15, 10:56 am

And what about the coach who knowingly strings kids and parents along?

Coaching a PPL D1 team, decides a week before to let those who he is committed to know.   He leaves space for the "better" players, but tells numerous girls that they are on the bubble - too many to actually make the team, but more than enough just in case his "committed" players bail.  Then, to "test their loyalty", he holds numerous "tryouts" over the next week, and  tells them if they want the "chance" to play for his team, they need to show up for every practice - effectively precluding them from looking at another team.

On signing day, the loyal kids show up - not knowing where they will play.  Of course, the coach knew they never had a chance unless there was a mass exodus.  And there, in front of their friends, they are "politely" told that not only is the coach not interested in them, but the "back-up team and coach" that they promised those players for the last 6 weeks would be available, "all of the sudden" didn't make.  If they want to play for the club, they will have to go play for this other coach further down - or go find an opening elsewhere.

Karma

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Looking04 on 02/07/15, 11:17 am

Or the "backup" team that they were promised - oh, don't worry about it.  If you don't make my team we will have this other team - doesn't make,  and there is no contract available - even on the other club teams.  Good luck!

shameful

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Guest on 02/07/15, 11:34 am

Soccerfan79 wrote:All of this starts with parents ACTUALLY knowing where their daughter stands developmentally compared to those on the team she is attempting to be a part of.  

The vast majority have ZERO clue and this is where the problem starts.  

Everyone else knows, but them. Laughing

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Guest on 02/07/15, 11:45 am

Sho'nuff wrote:
Soccerfan79 wrote:All of this starts with parents ACTUALLY knowing where their daughter stands developmentally compared to those on the team she is attempting to be a part of.  

The vast majority have ZERO clue and this is where the problem starts.  

Everyone else knows, but them.  Laughing

No

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by InaB on 02/07/15, 12:00 pm

79, you are partly right. Parents have to have an "honest" assessment of their dd's skills. I think most parents want to believe their DD is the next Mia and each parent wears rose colored glasses when they watch them. However, we all need to be honest in our assessment. (Which I know is hard.)

I think for most parents it isn't cluelessness as much as it is our loving eye that sees them in that hazy light.
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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Mr.Incredible on 02/07/15, 12:05 pm

'fields of Dreams' .....they will come. Shameful maybe an easy term there Jib. Oh, Wait there's no Santa either?
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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by Guest on 02/07/15, 12:07 pm

InaB wrote:79, you are partly right. Parents have to have an "honest" assessment of their dd's skills. I think most parents want to believe their DD is the next Mia and each parent wears rose colored glasses when they watch them. However, we all need to be honest in our assessment. (Which I know is hard.)

I think for most parents it isn't cluelessness as much as it is our loving eye that sees them in that hazy light.

Take a poll Ina... ask how many watched the sport before their DDs started playing, let alone played the sport.... and for those that just started how many actively take the time to learn about what they are investing so much money into.... ND buying a chelsea jersey doesn't make them instantly all knowing. Haha

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by fliptc on 02/07/15, 12:12 pm

Lots of parents out there need to look at their DDs actual ability. Seen too many say they should be playing at a higher level, and they are not ready for that level. It is sad when they don't make it or do and don't play. Be honest with your DD and yourself and go to the level they need to be playing. They have the chance to get better that way and then possibly move up.
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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by rockindaddy on 02/07/15, 12:29 pm

I hate to hear these types of stories. I have now signed six contracts and never recall a player not showing up at signing that was expected to. Do recall 1 girl that was sent away but in that case it should have been expected but I did feel bad for her. It can be done the correct way.
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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by rockindaddy on 02/07/15, 12:34 pm

Actually just signed 7th but whose counting.
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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by upper95 on 02/07/15, 12:36 pm

I have seen loyal returning players leave the last open practice thinking they were on the team only to get a phone call on July 1 saying "we are going in another direction."

The coaches need numbers at open practices to give the appearance or desirability and stability, which is why they string players along. If his team, doesn't make, he is out a $15K gig.

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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by dadof3 on 02/07/15, 12:55 pm

As a coach, parent, and former player, I can tell you that too much of the time parents overestimate their child's ability based on their 5 minute highlight reel. Not that the kid didn't do something good, but 90% of the time, the kid has no impact on the game...or worse, a negative impact. I think we all share the blame, but honesty is the best (and only) policy that works long term. Telling a parent that the kid won't see much time is the hardest thing a coach has to do. But to take a kid to sit the bench is worse when visions of Mia were circulating. If you REALLY like the team and think the development will happen and she will earn the time...great, but to walk out to a team that is at or above her current level and expect she will displace an incumbent starter in week 1 is naive, and sets everyone up for frustration. Realistically, few top players leave a team at the same level, so you are looking to move UP. Most coaches will be honest with you if you are honest up front.

Hearing that "I need to see her more" is NOT the kiss of death. A lot of the time he needs to see if she will find time...and if you expect a guarantee after 1 practice, and she didn't tackle, assert herself, talk, shoot, etc. then often you are trying out for a desperate team or a team that is below her highest level. I think you need to be seen 3x to get a sense on an upward move. By the third time, the kid should have relaxed enough to give a coach an honest picture...and the coach will have a better vision of where she will fit (if at all). If the kid can't relax and play for a coach, it is a bad sign. If the kid is intimidated after 3 practices, it can work...even if she is "shy", but it can also signal that she has work to do to earn time.

Also, if a coach has multiple teams, he may be deciding where she fits on THAT team or if her playing time would be better in another team (competitively, positionally etc.). As I said, most are honest about where the kid stands, and almost NONE WANT to break a kids heart, so the conversations are difficult for everyone. At the end if the day, you would rather have the truth. It is a year commitment, so starting with dishonesty is terrible.

Sorry to ramble, just sitting by the pool today after a stressful June. Happy that July is here! Hopefully you found a home, if not, call some of the teams that posted formerly and see if there is one more spot. Those 2-3 phone calls can be some of the most productive honest conversations you can have. Give her resume and speak truthfully. A coach that is intrigued will invite to a practice...if it isn't the right fit, most will say sorry-call XX, and good luck!

God Bless!
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Re: Integrity Vanished

Post by AbEnd on 02/07/15, 01:08 pm

Another big mistake that parents make is forgetting that the contract is with the Club not the Coach.  It's a business deal.

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