Who need possession when you can score goals like that!

Congratulations USA Women's Team!!!!

Jill Ellis deserves the props. She chose the players and coached up that defense. Of course Loyd played out of her skin, but even if we hadn't scored 3 goals in 16 minutes Japan was not on the same level and the midget player tiki taka crap doesnt generate scoring chances against a good defense once you fall behind.

Maybe Ellis finally put to bed the need for us to keep trying to copy anyone and just be the best at who we are. Hats off to her and the WNT for doing the country proud.

4-3-3 wrote:Jill Ellis deserves the props. She chose the players and coached up that defense. Of course Loyd played out of her skin, but even if we hadn't scored 3 goals in 16 minutes Japan was not on the same level and the midget player tiki taka crap doesnt generate scoring chances against a good defense once you fall behind.

Maybe Ellis finally put to bed the need for us to keep trying to copy anyone and just be the best at who we are. Hats off to her and the WNT for doing the country proud.

Damn right, its not about having skill... kick it long, let em run, cross em from wide and see what connects... so who is the next Wambach 4-3-3?

U.S was just as skillful as japan, they were just faster and more athletic at nearly every position. Notice our back line routinely played out of pressure while supposedly technical japan whacked it out...meanwhile japanese fwds needed a 5 yard head start to get to any 50:50 contest against a u.s. defender. Leave tiki taka for the history books and nations that can't play any other way.

4-3-3 wrote:Jill Ellis deserves the props. She chose the players and coached up that defense. Of course Loyd played out of her skin, but even if we hadn't scored 3 goals in 16 minutes Japan was not on the same level and the midget player tiki taka crap doesnt generate scoring chances against a good defense once you fall behind.

Maybe Ellis finally put to bed the need for us to keep trying to copy anyone and just be the best at who we are. Hats off to her and the WNT for doing the country proud.

Even Guardiola is quoted as saying possession without purpose is crap.  You need to possess to build up play, you need to possess to limit chances for the opposition.  You do also need to understand when to counter long/quick/in the air/a thru ball, etc...

That US team grew as the tourney developed. Credit to Ellis for sitting Wambach  and allowing them to play a more technical and tactical game... that is not who the US Women have been over the course of the last 20+ years.  

The womens game has evolved... best games of the tournament in no specific order

USA v Germany
Germany v England
Germany v France
France v England
Canada v England

Those games are where the future of the womens game were displayed IMO.  There was good football played throughout the tourney I thought, but those by far stood out as the best to watch.

Not sure I would agree that the US was as skillful as Japan. They were without question much more athletic then Japan. At the end of the match the ball was in Japans control more of the game but when you got down big in the first 5 minutes the match was pretty much over. Set piece took them out of the match early. (15 minutes 4 goals) 2 goals off a set piece. then a fabulous third goal the fourth was let's just say insane. from Half. But that's the way the game goes. I am not sure if tiki taka is dead. The is truth to the statement play to your strengths. No need to try to be technical against a more technical team. US ran at them early put them under pressure and being down 4 in 15 Japan was out of their game match done. Congrats to the US. Still upset it wasn't a US Canada final. Still looking to see what Sydney did to tick of the coach didn't see much of her after game three ( yes she did get 30 seconds in a match but can't count that one) Elis was pure genius though in setting this team to play 7 matches. Looking forward to the future of the USWNT. Now where did I put my US flag....

Soccerfan79 wrote:

4-3-3 wrote:Jill Ellis deserves the props. She chose the players and coached up that defense. Of course Loyd played out of her skin, but even if we hadn't scored 3 goals in 16 minutes Japan was not on the same level and the midget player tiki taka crap doesnt generate scoring chances against a good defense once you fall behind.

Maybe Ellis finally put to bed the need for us to keep trying to copy anyone and just be the best at who we are. Hats off to her and the WNT for doing the country proud.

Even Guardiola is quoted as saying possession without purpose is crap.  You need to possess to build up play, you need to possess to limit chances for the opposition.  You do also need to understand when to counter long/quick/in the air/a thru ball, etc...

That US team grew as the tourney developed. Credit to Ellis for sitting Wambach  and allowing them to play a more technical and tactical game... that is not who the US Women have been over the course of the last 20+ years.  

The womens game has evolved... best games of the tournament in no specific order

USA v Germany
Germany v England
Germany v France
France v England
Canada v England

Those games are where the future of the womens game were displayed IMO.  There was good football played throughout the tourney I thought, but those by far stood out as the best to watch.

Totally agree but the Canadian English match turned into more of a physical beat down then a true soccer match. Plus it's way to soon for me as I am still mourning the loss.

Marvelousmar wrote:

Soccerfan79 wrote:

4-3-3 wrote:Jill Ellis deserves the props. She chose the players and coached up that defense. Of course Loyd played out of her skin, but even if we hadn't scored 3 goals in 16 minutes Japan was not on the same level and the midget player tiki taka crap doesnt generate scoring chances against a good defense once you fall behind.

Maybe Ellis finally put to bed the need for us to keep trying to copy anyone and just be the best at who we are. Hats off to her and the WNT for doing the country proud.

Even Guardiola is quoted as saying possession without purpose is crap.  You need to possess to build up play, you need to possess to limit chances for the opposition.  You do also need to understand when to counter long/quick/in the air/a thru ball, etc...

That US team grew as the tourney developed. Credit to Ellis for sitting Wambach  and allowing them to play a more technical and tactical game... that is not who the US Women have been over the course of the last 20+ years.  

The womens game has evolved... best games of the tournament in no specific order

USA v Germany
Germany v England
Germany v France
France v England
Canada v England

Those games are where the future of the womens game were displayed IMO.  There was good football played throughout the tourney I thought, but those by far stood out as the best to watch.

Totally agree but the Canadian English match turned into more of a physical beat down then a true soccer match.  Plus it's way to soon for me as I am still mourning the loss.  

Very true... that game did turn into a slugfest, I was more focused on the moments of great soccer that were played in that one... but they were overshadowed by the other stuff..

Germany men didn't win the 2014 world cup playing tiki taka. Pep hasn't had as much success recently with it. I hope it's dead. You can be a technical team without being tiki taka.

Jill sitting Abby didn't make us a more technical team. We didn't play any more sophisticated soccer in the attacking third without Abby.  We attacked with the same patterns we've always used.

Jill starting Morgan Brian at holding made us a more technical team because of how she managed the other two thirds.

And for me the future of the game is not only building in Europe and Canada, but also the African sides. I thought Cameroon was better than any Asian team and would've given us a far better game than China (or Japan) did. If the African teams learn how to build a team starting with an organized and disciplined defense, the unathletic, technical teams will be left in the dust...as they're already doing at younger national team levels.

The difference in this U.S. team is 40-year-old Rampone was finally replaced because of the very, skilled, fast, athletic and yes TECHNICAL players in the back line stepped up to win their spots. There were no snails on this back line.  In my perfect world Sauerbrunn and Johnston would've gotten at least a silver ball.

I wonder how much the shadowing of the field helped the USA women? That coin toss was more important than you can imagine.

Don't want to diminish what the USA Women did. But, I am curious what affect it had on Japan.

Can't leave out Klingenberg, she made a couple of what I thought were exceptionally skillful moves on the ball late in the game to get out of pressure at a time when Japan was trying hard to connect on a last punch. I also thought putting two up top to start this game psychologically set an aggressive tone right from the start.

4-3-3 wrote:And for me the future of the game is not only building in Europe and Canada, but also the African sides. I thought Cameroon was better than any Asian team and would've given us a far better game than China (or Japan) did. If the African teams learn how to build a team starting with an organized and disciplined defense, the unathletic, technical teams will be left in the dust...as they're already doing at younger national team levels.

I agree 4-3-3, Cameroon looked great and I thought Nigeria played well. However what the African teams really need is $$$, money for facilities, communications and probably a well coordinated system to identify and and train their most talented. If they had all that, along with the disciplined defense, that would be something to fear.

Oh, can't leave out the Aussies, they'll be in the mix in 4 years for sure.

4-3-3 wrote:Germany men didn't win the 2014 world cup playing tiki taka. Pep hasn't had as much success recently with it. I hope it's dead. You can be a technical team without being tiki taka.

Jill sitting Abby didn't make us a more technical team. We didn't play any more sophisticated soccer in the attacking third without Abby.  We attacked with the same patterns we've always used.

Jill starting Morgan Brian at holding made us a more technical team because of how she managed the other two thirds.

And for me the future of the game is not only building in Europe and Canada, but also the African sides. I thought Cameroon was better than any Asian team and would've given us a far better game than China (or Japan) did. If the African teams learn how to build a team starting with an organized and disciplined defense, the unathletic, technical teams will be left in the dust...as they're already doing at younger national team levels.

The difference in this U.S. team is 40-year-old Rampone was finally replaced because of the very, skilled, fast, athletic and yes TECHNICAL players in the back line stepped up to win their spots. There were no snails on this back line.  In my perfect world Sauerbrunn and Johnston would've gotten at least a silver ball.

Have to agree with most of what was said. The game is changing. It will be scary when Cameroon gets it figured out defensively. To say Japan is unathletic might not be fair. China yes very unathlethic. Japan just not as athletic. (US u20's lost to Korea not considered athletic so let's think through this a bit more) I think the US was much more athletic compared to Japan in 2011. Result didn't end in the US favour. The coin flip ( yes the sun did play a part) and the first 5 minutes set the tone. Germany is a blend of both. There is a time to go forward and they do it with amazing accuracy. ( see Brazil still looking around from the German Blitzberg) I think the US should enjoy the win continue to recognize that the rest of the world also plays this game and evolve with the woman's game.

KnKsDad wrote:Can't leave out Klingenberg

Absolutely darn right! I was getting a just a little frustrated at Sauerbrunn during the last 15 minutes. Seemed like 4 times in a row she just cleared the ball straight out of play giving Japan a throw-in on our side.

RightWingDad wrote:

KnKsDad wrote:Can't leave out Klingenberg

Absolutely darn right! I was getting a just a little frustrated at Sauerbrunn during the last 15 minutes. Seemed like 4 times in a row she just cleared the ball straight out of play giving Japan a throw-in on our side.

Not just the Broom, but JJ too.   I think by the second half of the second half, the US team was just playing long ball, kick ball to get the game in the books.    The early 4-0 jump I think caught both teams by surprise.    Was that the same stadium as England versus Canada where England put 2 up in the first 15 minutes on that same side?    No matter what, those four goals were examples of beautiful set plays and being in the right place to convert.   The mystique of the "10" continues to grow.  

For 4-3-3 I get what you are saying.   I think this year more than ever our US team has shown that we can play possession, and have excellent foot work skills.   It's pretty awesome when a Team can play both Power/Aggression and tight spacing Tiki-Taka passing.  Saw it all by the US during this tournament.

My 4-0 prediction wasn't too far off.  Once it got to 4-0, I think the US let off the gas a little, then when it was 4-2, the team responded to put Japan out to pasture.

so...to take this on another tangent...did anyone else notice that nearly all of the teams that advanced out of group came from "first-world" nations?  why?

My theory is...there is no money in girl's soccer.  Little girls in underdeveloped countries don't get the training at younger ages due to funding.  In the first world, we have youth leagues funded by the parents - just look at your contract from last week.  In third-world countries, they fund the boys identification and training, but do not put the same funding or effort into the girls.  Marta had to play with the boys to get training in her youth, and that's Brasil even.

Agree Kling was great in the final and very steady the entire tournament. Entire backline was fantastic and given many of those players were around in Pia's era, have to give Jill and her staff massive Kudos.

Also just re-read my comments yesterday about Rampone...I hope it didn't come across as a knock on her. She is one of the top 10 WNTers of all time IMO. I was clumsily trying to say that as great as she is, she's 40. She was 36 in 2011, but none of our young guns were either good enough or coached up well enough to supplant her.

The fact she and Boxx and to some extent Abby were not able to maintain starter status on the 2015 team made a difference. But notice the very nice job of continuity Ellis was able to maintain by inviting senior leadership to the party and having them play their roles as needed...pretty much polar opposite of the hatchet job JK pulled on Donavon.

I haven't been a big Ellis fan, but have to give credit where credit is due.

Hypothetical- If your DD is lucky enough to develop to this elite level, how would you feel about old women blocking her from making the team or starting?

10sDad wrote:so...to take this on another tangent...did anyone else notice that nearly all of the teams that advanced out of group came from "first-world" nations?  why?

My theory is...there is no money in girl's soccer.  Little girls in underdeveloped countries don't get the training at younger ages due to funding.  In the first world, we have youth leagues funded by the parents - just look at your contract from last week.  In third-world countries, they fund the boys identification and training, but do not put the same funding or effort into the girls.  Marta had to play with the boys to get training in her youth, and that's Brasil even.

For all the money we spend, I didn't see much gap in skill level of individual players from many of the weaker economic nations. The gap looked to be in coaching and depth. Some of the new minnows like Thailand, Ivory Coast, etc. were clearly out of their element. But Cameroon was a few moments of lost composure and tough referee decisions from being right there, and Columbia beat France playing them straight up.

I think it all comes down to defense. If you believe a nation's soccer values mimic their cultural values, there is your explanation for why most europe and asian countries focus on being as organized defensively as they are on attack, while most latino, south american and african countries do not. Geopolitics of the last 400 years would suggest those cultural patterns have roots.

If it were all about money, we would be absolutely crushing everyone else at every youth and full team level of women's soccer.

Sho'nuff wrote:Hypothetical- If your DD is lucky enough to develop to this elite level, how would you feel about old women blocking her from making the team or starting?  

Easy question for me...If she can't prove herself as clearly a better option than an old woman, she doesn't deserve to take minutes because she has youth. Very interested to watch the next few years and see how Crystal Dunn responds to being left off this team.

I think the change in play between Abby W and the new team is a matter of Abby's "the torpedoes and full steam ahead" play. That works sometimes in today's play but it can't be the only style a team uses. Fast play and opportunistic thinking on the fly are what keep a team in the game.

I agree that the defense was awesome in all the games. If it hadn't been for the back field, we might have had a totally different outcome. Grace under pressure is also a good thing - especially in Lloyd's case. That one goal between the players with a quick flying flick that went past the goalie was such a great play.

Just like with football (the other kind), games change - mostly based on more advanced skills and game savvy. Would Troy Aikman be a success as a quarterback today? I don't think so because he always had difficulty moving and throwing. He wasn't quick enough most of the time to scramble the way many of the quarterbacks today can.

The speed of play in the Women's games was impressive. That was one of the factors (which I think shocked both sides) in the game against Japan. USA came out running and didn't slow down until after the fourth goal. Yes, Japan held possession a lot more over all but as some of said, possession doesn't win if you can't get the goal. Japan had some incredible runs (many of which should never have gotten to mid field), but the USA defense was excellent in getting the ball back. During the last quarter of the game, the defense was simply keeping the Japan players away from the goal by booting back as often as possible. That wears on the opponent and breaks up play. Yes, I would have preferred that there be more play, but I totally understood the direction.

I have to say that I can't wait until the next Women's world cup. Heck, I can't wait for our season to start. Darn, bring on a tournament.

InaB wrote:...bring on a tournament.  

Yes, just not those 8am games at Chinn ;-)

InaB wrote:Yes, Japan held possession a lot more over all but as some of said, possession doesn't win if you can't get the goal. Japan had some incredible runs (many of which should never have gotten to mid field), but the USA defense was excellent in getting the ball back. During the last quarter of the game, the defense was simply keeping the Japan players away from the goal by booting back as often as possible.

48% vs 52% possesion
http://www.lastminutegoals.org/2015/07/06/usa-vs-japan-women-world-cup-highlights/

had it not been for the big lead and yes, some booting< to kill out the game; USA Women would have had an edge in possession

This WC would have been a different story had Sasic buried the pk late 2nd half. The difference between this world cup winning team and last runner up team is luck .

4-3-3 wrote:U.S was just as skillful as japan, they were just faster and more athletic at nearly every position. Notice our back line routinely played out of pressure while supposedly technical japan whacked it out...meanwhile japanese fwds needed a 5 yard head start to get to any 50:50 contest against a u.s. defender. Leave tiki taka for  the history books and nations that can't play any other way.