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Battle for Equality still raging on Pixel
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Battle for Equality still raging on

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Post by InaB on 07/07/15, 09:16 pm

This is a great article on women's sports and sports figures versus men's. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/living/feat-womens-soccer-victory-uphill-struggle-equal-recognition/index.html

FiFA officials would never suggest that men should wear tighter shorts.

Sorry, going to tell on my age here, but I was part of the 70s and the struggle that there has been to be paid equally for equal responsibilities. I thought things would be better by now, but nope - same ol, same ol.

$2M in prize money for the USA team for their win (the third time for a US women's team) and $8M for the USA men's team who lost in the first round. Yep, that is equal all right.

Even you dads should be angry about the lack of equality for your daughters.

I remember years ago when I started out at a newspaper. I won numerous awards while on the job. Then I married (a fellow reporter). The Executive Editor called me and my spouse in and told me that in the future I wouldn't receive any raises because more than likely I would get pregnant and quit and it would have been a waste of the money. Then he told me that if my spouse hadn't gotten a raise within six months of when mine would be available he would get my raise. His reason was that my spouse would be the bread winner and would continue to work.

I know we have moved forward from the above scenario, but obviously we still have a long way to go.

Stepping off of the soap box.

Very Happy
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Post by DDdad on 07/07/15, 11:37 pm

I have no idea about the economics of Fifa soccer but on its face, $2MM seems absurd. I can understand that the men generate more money and thus would receive more money but it seems that $2MM fails to even cover the costs of attending the event much less anything else. When you draw 25 million to watch the finals and figure that they played in 6 games not counting qualifying, friendlies etc, the money would be a slap in the face. I'm sure they don't play for the US for the cash but they are professionals.
I will date myself as well. I remember how upset I was when Title IX was passed. It killed a bunch of sports that I loved at way too many schools. Why would they kill all those sports just so girls could play. Didn't seem fair. Now with two daughters, I'm very thankful that it happened as their opportunities as so much greater. The Title IX girls are still early in rolling through the college ranks so I would think the National teams would become even stronger. Still seems a shame that so many sports had to be killed for the girls to get anything but there is a finite amount of money in the pot.
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Post by CBTeamworks on 08/07/15, 12:07 am

Do the women make money on endorsements?
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Post by Guest on 08/07/15, 07:55 am

I thought this was going to be a post about the lack of minorities on the USWNT.

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Post by Guest on 08/07/15, 08:11 am

shannon box, Sydney Leroux, Amy Rodriguez

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Post by soccerisfun on 08/07/15, 08:13 am

And don't forget about the turf vs. grass issue.

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Post by Guest on 08/07/15, 08:23 am

LaLiga06 wrote:shannon box, Sydney Leroux, Amy Rodriguez

Leroux is as Canadian as Ted Cruz, and didn't play, much to my dissatisfaction.
Amy Rodriguez is from Beverly Hills.
Shannon Boxx is quoted as saying she learned about her 'other half' from majoring in African American studies.



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Post by Guest on 08/07/15, 08:32 am

Your ignorance is palpable...

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Post by KnKsDad on 08/07/15, 08:41 am

Just curious, where did the "prize" money come from, and on what basis should they be compensated?

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Post by KnKsDad on 08/07/15, 08:42 am

LaLiga06 wrote:shannon box, Sydney Leroux, Amy Rodriguez

I think it kind of ignorant for you to even point out the 3 out of what like 20 on the roster?

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Post by bulldog81 on 08/07/15, 08:47 am

Very Happy
LaLiga06 wrote:Your ignorance is palpable...

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Post by Guest on 08/07/15, 08:50 am

Back on topic, women are certainly treated like second class citizens in much of the World, but Title IX keeps me from having too much sympathy for our US girls. There's plenty of scholarship money out there for them! I feel for the male athletes that don't play football.

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Post by KnKsDad on 08/07/15, 09:09 am

Sho'nuff wrote:
LaLiga06 wrote:shannon box, Sydney Leroux, Amy Rodriguez

Leroux is as Canadian as Ted Cruz, and didn't play, much to my dissatisfaction.
Amy Rodriguez is from Beverly Hills.
Shannon Boxx is quoted as saying she learned about her 'other half' from majoring in African American studies.



I can appreciate what you are suggesting if you have some statistics or evidence to substantiate, but Leroux being born in Canada doesn't make her any less Black, nor does Rodriguez being born in Beverly Hills make her any less Hispanic and with respect to Boxx, don't know her personal story, but it's not where she learned it, it's what's in her blood, so to speak. Some will take what your suggestion to mean that if the player is not born in the hood then they are not deemed a "minority". It's all about merit. If there are players out there that are good enough they need to be on the team, if there are and they are being excluded then it needs to be addressed.

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Post by Guest on 08/07/15, 09:16 am

KnKsDad wrote:
Sho'nuff wrote:
LaLiga06 wrote:shannon box, Sydney Leroux, Amy Rodriguez

Leroux is as Canadian as Ted Cruz, and didn't play, much to my dissatisfaction.
Amy Rodriguez is from Beverly Hills.
Shannon Boxx is quoted as saying she learned about her 'other half' from majoring in African American studies.



I can appreciate what you are suggesting if you have some statistics or evidence to substantiate, but Leroux being born in Canada doesn't make her any less Black, nor does Rodriguez being born in Beverly Hills make her any less Hispanic and with respect to Boxx, don't know her personal story, but it's not where she learned it, it's what's in her blood, so to speak. Some will take what your suggestion to mean that if the player is not born in the hood then they are not deemed a "minority". It's all about merit. If there are players out there that are good enough they need to be on the team, if there are and they are being excluded then it needs to be addressed.

Honestly, I think there's a money issue, not a race issue. The rest of my comment is just shock value; been doing that since Al Gore invented the internet.

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Post by boilerjoe_96 on 08/07/15, 09:47 am

Sho'nuff wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:
Sho'nuff wrote:
LaLiga06 wrote:shannon box, Sydney Leroux, Amy Rodriguez

Leroux is as Canadian as Ted Cruz, and didn't play, much to my dissatisfaction.
Amy Rodriguez is from Beverly Hills.
Shannon Boxx is quoted as saying she learned about her 'other half' from majoring in African American studies.



I can appreciate what you are suggesting if you have some statistics or evidence to substantiate, but Leroux being born in Canada doesn't make her any less Black, nor does Rodriguez being born in Beverly Hills make her any less Hispanic and with respect to Boxx, don't know her personal story, but it's not where she learned it, it's what's in her blood, so to speak. Some will take what your suggestion to mean that if the player is not born in the hood then they are not deemed a "minority". It's all about merit. If there are players out there that are good enough they need to be on the team, if there are and they are being excluded then it needs to be addressed.

Honestly, I think there's a money issue, not a race issue.  The rest of my comment is just shock value; been doing that since Al Gore invented the internet.

From my experience.... Go to a soccer skills/camps in the Allen/Plano/McKinney area and you see mostly white suburban girls. Go to basketball open skills in same area, and at higher price per hour, and my dd only fair skinned girl there at times. A 4th grade soccer tourney and 4th grade basketball tourney will have skin tones reversed(just from what I've seen). Select type basketball isn't cheap either. So perhaps cultural as well.
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Post by Lyin Ted on 08/07/15, 10:00 am

Battle for Equality still raging on 45d9858e34f33e0d317cd347c7a29e0b

__________________________________________________
Girls I Am Looking For 60% Effort, 4000% Of The Time!

If I Have Ever Offended you... Just So You Know That From The Bottom Of My Heart.
I Don't Really Give A Shit!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KeG_i8CWE8#t=48
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Post by 10sDad on 08/07/15, 10:37 am

It's a simple business proposition.  It's what you can sell, and what the public is willing to pay for your product.  Think about why JerryWorld or Reliant in Houston seem to be the Mexican National Team's 2nd home.  Can the USA Women, even after just winning the world cup sell out JerryWorld for a friendly? nope.

Will shorter shorts help?  God, I hope not...but then you have the lingerie football league that started as a unabashedly sexist superbowl halftime show...now its an actual league?  Why have I seen so many links to "hottest women soccer players" (aka Alex Morgan in a bikini) right next to highlights of Messi actually playing.  Unfortunately, it's what sells.

I'm not saying they can't be respected as players.  The level of play this world cup was leaps and bounds above just 4 years ago...look at Nigeria for an example.  I think a great event to have would be something like a King/Riggs battle of the sexes, having the World Cup winning team play against a team of legends from the men's side.  It will draw the men's fans in due to watching some of these legends play, show them that the girls can actually play, and maybe grow some appreciation of the girls as players, not objects.
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Post by RightWingDad on 08/07/15, 12:04 pm

10, you got it exactly. It's what sells. Look at average salaries between MLS and the 5 Euro leagues. MLS around $200K, Euro around $1.2M.

Ever watch a NWSL game? Even the announcing and camera work is pathetic. It's almost unwatchable, and that's unfortunate.

Another thing to consider is this. It's really hard to compare the league teams and the games they play to those teams that play with the US crest on their jersey. Every few years we love to cheer on our US clad teams...it's US against the world. I still think it's gonna maybe take one more generation before we fill 20-30K seats in soccer stadiums across the country for the average league game.

Just my opinions, but Sunday's game was historic and I was thankful my dd got to watch with her women's soccer loving teammates...and their women's soccer loving parents.
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Post by InaB on 08/07/15, 12:06 pm

Dear 10s, I do understand economics in a male dominant society. But that is precisely my point - we should have changed this view years ago.

As to the question asked by someone earlier about whether the female players getting paid for endorsements, yes they do, but not as much as male athletes and not as many of them are used.

As to the changes under Title IX, the average money spent on athletics rankings in Texas are as follows: (1)football, (2 ) basketball (male), (3) baseball (male), (4) basketball (women), (5) soccer men and women. The inequality not only impacts the players, it impacts coaching salaries and facilities. Head coaches for men's teams in Texas colleges average $200,000 a year while head coaches for women's teams average about $50,000.

Women in division 1 colleges comprise 54% of the student population, but they receive only 43% of sports participation opportunities. They benefit from only 38% of the spots operation dollars and only 33% of recruitment dollars. This needs to change faster than it has.



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Post by RightWingDad on 08/07/15, 12:06 pm

Juice Box wrote:Battle for Equality still raging on 45d9858e34f33e0d317cd347c7a29e0b

cheers cheers cheers

So true. We went to see the USMNT game vs. Honduras last night. The men fell at the slightest touch. Such drama. Geez!
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Post by Guest on 08/07/15, 12:07 pm


I've grown into a bonafide women's soccer fan over the years. I like how the older generation is traditional in their ethics and sportsmanship, and play the game more like it was played back in the day (without all the flopping, feigned injuries and time wasting we see from the men).

That distinction won't hold much longer though....many younger players coming up now pull the same stunts as the men...watched quite a few young ladies that would put neymar and robben to shame.

And let's not get ahead of ourselves talking about ladies playing men...some of the soccer in this WWC was absolutely horrific. The opening game canada vs. china was dang near unwatchable.

A strong u17 boys team would run circles aorund the WNT, and based on scrimmage rumors, I'd bet most academy level u15 teams give them far more than they can handle.

I just don't see any grounds for pity parties for american female athletes. They have more resources and opportunities than anyone in the world.

And yes, there is a class issue in that establishment soccer in the U.S. has been an upper middle class sport. That is changing on the men's side...out of necessity. You can't compete internationally using only rich, suburban kids.

If USSF didn't already get the message from what's been happening with the youth teams, this world cup should be further evidence those days are numbered on the women's side as well.

As for diversity, I don't know if it's an issue or not. From the outside looking in, seems a bit strange that a player like Christen Press had to go overseas and blow up before getting attention on the senior team...but whose to say she didn't use being shunned as motivation to improve her game? IMO, after Abby's decline she is the best ctr forward in the pool and could've done more than alex morgan had she been given a chance to play the 9. But maybe in the coaches eyes, she just wasn't good enough?

And while I'm scratching my head on Dunn being left off, it's hard to say there is any diversity issue when you look at the recent YNT call-ups (tons of minority players being ID'd and brought through the ranks). The question has been whether a glass ceiling filters access to the full team.

I'm not sure that it does, and I think it's more about coaching cliques and who played for whom, but I think the following scenarios would drive more ethnic and socioeconomic diversity on USWNT:

1) Enough quality American trained hispanic players join Mexican NT that el tri actually becomes a credible threat to us in concacaf,
2) African and South American teams continue to rapidly improve their standard of play,
3) The women's game grows in Europe, and pro academies invest in identifying and training up talent from around the world (as they do with men).


If any of those three scenarios play out, we won't be able to compete much longer using primarily "elite" college kids from wealthy families. As the game grows internationally, the USWNT would have to look more like America if we expect to maintain a spot near the top.

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Post by 10sDad on 08/07/15, 01:36 pm

InaB wrote:Dear 10s, I do understand economics in a male dominant society. But that is precisely my point - we should have changed this view years ago.

As to the question asked by someone earlier about whether the female players getting paid for endorsements, yes they do, but not as much as male athletes and not as many of them are used.

As to the changes under Title IX, the average money spent on athletics rankings in Texas are as follows: (1)football, (2 ) basketball (male), (3) baseball (male), (4) basketball (women), (5) soccer men and women. The inequality not only impacts the players, it impacts coaching salaries and facilities. Head coaches for men's teams in Texas colleges average $200,000 a year while head coaches for women's teams average about $50,000.

Women in division 1 colleges comprise 54% of the student population, but they receive only 43% of sports participation opportunities. They benefit from only 38% of the spots operation dollars and only 33% of recruitment dollars. This needs to change faster than it has.



I am not going to debate you on your facts and figures, as I am sure they are correct.  However, it still comes down to generating revenue before you can disperse that revenue to the players on the same level.  Yes, colleges spend more on men's athletics - but do the women's sports generate anywhere near the revenue?  How much does it cost for an advertisement during a women's college basketball game vs. how much does it cost for an advertisement during a men's basketball game?  Why?  ratings, viewership, target audience, etc.  It's really marketing 101.  
SHOULD it be more equal, yes.  Is it in reality? no.  It's competition for that disposable income that is called the entertainment dollar, and if the marketing team for women's sports cannot sell it to the public, it will not make revenue, even if the competition or the event itself is superior.

It's like VHS vs. Betamax.  EVERYONE knew Betamax was better quality, but VHS won the war due to marketing, product placement and a superior marketing strategy.  To this day, small American cars are considered inferior to the Japanese cars due to a marketing effort that capitalized on a temporary quality difference in the late 1970s.  

Can it be overcome? yes - but you must put out a superior entertainment value, and capitalize on that niche.  A couple of examples:
1. Minor league baseball.  Waaaaayyyy more fun and intimate than the pro game.  Marketing constantly going for the family angle, because their pricing allows the whole family to sit in the lower infield (including hot dogs) for the same price as a single ticket, parking, hot dog and beer to a MLB game. Plus the entertainment between innings is far superior.  Maximizing the family entertainment dollar.
2. Minnesota Hockey.  Minnesota lost its only pro team in 1993, the year after being in the Stanley Cup finals.  Why?  Because the hockey purists in Minnesota hated the pro game and much preferred the amateur game to the point that you could go to a North Stars game and get good seats as a walk-up on game night.  The pro game had become very slow and all about physicality, whereas the amateur game was all about speed, puck handling, etc.  Much more entertaining to watch...North Stars ended up in Dallas, and it took a few rule changes in the NHL to open up the game before Minnesota was interested in getting another pro team.  
3.  ESPN.  When they first came on the air, they had sportscenter...and no contract with any other sport.  So, they picked up Australian Rules Football...and other obscure sports.  They got huge ratings, because they piqued the sports fan's interests with these programming choices.  Ultimately, they became a winner in sports broadcasting.  NBC Universal sports did something similar when digital TV came out on 5.2 or something...that got popular, now they are on cable as a subscriber channel.  

So...yes, it can be done.  Grassroots marketing, entertainment dollar value, and uniqueness wins the war.  Just imitating the men's game with women will never win - or even imitating the men's game with another men's game (ask the USFL about that one).  They need something that makes them unique, and they need to capitalize on that uniqueness. Change the rules of soccer to make the women's game more exciting to watch than the men's game...increase the scoring, bonus points for a nutmeg, I don't know...go a little And1 with soccer, and incorporate it into the girls game...but do something to make it unique instead of an imitation. If not that, go full on grassroots - put the national team players under a contract, and send them all over the US all year long - being fully accessible to youth players - guest coach with the young girls teams, etc. There is a lot that can be done beyond just complaining that its not fair that more CONSUMERS CHOOSE to spend their money on the men's game.
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Post by RightWingDad on 08/07/15, 01:47 pm

10sDad wrote:...go full on grassroots - put the national team players under a contract, and send them all over the US all year long - being fully accessible to youth players - guest coach with the young girls teams, etc. 

10s, now that is a stellar idea!!! Getting touchpoints to the women our dd's adore would be great for the game. How many times has your dd wanted a high five or a autograph from Alex, Carli, Sydney or others only to be too far back in the pack. TSC is such a great soccer venue and I think the UNWNT ought to be there much more than once a year.

Great idea!
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Post by InaB on 08/07/15, 05:04 pm

I agree that having more contact between the stars and future stars would be great. I think having multiple mini camps for specific age groups would be a great learning experience. Not just for skills or general soccer training, but also a chance to ask questions about the game and how each player approaches it.

Perhaps even provide an evaluation of each player with suggestions on what they are doing right and what they could work on.

I can't think of a parent who wouldn't be willing to pay for their DD to have that kind of opportunity. And I think it would help further the cause of the USA Team.

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Post by Marvelousmar on 08/07/15, 05:31 pm

Sho'nuff wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:
Sho'nuff wrote:
LaLiga06 wrote:shannon box, Sydney Leroux, Amy Rodriguez

Leroux is as Canadian as Ted Cruz, and didn't play, much to my dissatisfaction.
Amy Rodriguez is from Beverly Hills.
Shannon Boxx is quoted as saying she learned about her 'other half' from majoring in African American studies.



I can appreciate what you are suggesting if you have some statistics or evidence to substantiate, but Leroux being born in Canada doesn't make her any less Black, nor does Rodriguez being born in Beverly Hills make her any less Hispanic and with respect to Boxx, don't know her personal story, but it's not where she learned it, it's what's in her blood, so to speak. Some will take what your suggestion to mean that if the player is not born in the hood then they are not deemed a "minority". It's all about merit. If there are players out there that are good enough they need to be on the team, if there are and they are being excluded then it needs to be addressed.

Honestly, I think there's a money issue, not a race issue.  The rest of my comment is just shock value; been doing that since Al Gore invented the internet.

These comments made me a little scared that I wasn't Black. Since I was born in Canada Eh. Back to reading.
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