Ken Smith Semifinals (‘02 Boys)

The Real GP vs Solar Castro game.
How is the final score 3-0, when GP scored when I passed by?

Apparently they used an illegal player. Lots of red cards in the Sawyer/Real game. I believe one of the red card/suspended players played in Real’s third game so they forfeited the result against Sawyer and Celtic. This is a third person account of what happened, so take it for what it’s worth.

I guess the Real coach wasn’t aware of the card....?

in case of a forfeit, all games the team played will be recorded as forfeits, all 3 - 0 scores.

Okay.
That, I wasn’t aware of.

If a legally-rostered player receives a red card in a game, but does not sit out the next game, tournaments do not go back and score all games 0-3 as punishment.

If all games are 0-3, that sounds an illegal player got caught... either not on roster, too old, bad guest player paperwork, playing on two teams in same tournament, etc.

Thanks for the information.

Congratulations to FC Dallas Premier on their Ken Smith U-16 Victory.

coachdom23 wrote:If a legally-rostered player receives a red card in a game, but does not sit out the next game, tournaments do not go back and score all games 0-3 as punishment.

If all games are 0-3, that sounds an illegal player got caught... either not on roster, too old, bad guest player paperwork, playing on two teams in same tournament, etc.

This was not an illegal player from the standpoint of having received red card the previous game.

The tournament scored 0-3 on all games that Real GP (culprit) played including the ones where there were no illegalities.  That gave Solar Sawyer a 3-0 win when they had actually lost 0-1.  That then changed the standings of that bracket as the last games were being played.  That meant teams started games thinking they needed a specific result only to find out in the middle of it that circumstances had changed.

A fair thing to do would have been to take away points from Real GP for playing a red carded player in that one game and leave the results of the other games that were played without any infringement intact.  They also need to punish the coach that played the illegal player.  What is the point of punishing a team and not the coach.  What is to stop them from doing it again.

coachdom23 wrote:If a legally-rostered player receives a red card in a game, but does not sit out the next game, tournaments do not go back and score all games 0-3 as punishment.

If all games are 0-3, that sounds an illegal player got caught... either not on roster, too old, bad guest player paperwork, playing on two teams in same tournament, etc.

this one does:

excerpt from "2018 Ken Smith Memorial Day Tournament Rules of the Competition"

FORFEITS:
FORFEITS WILL BE SCORED AS A 3-0 WIN (10 POINTS), FOR DETERMINING POINTS FOR
ADVANCEMENT. IN THE CASE OF A FORFEIT, ALL GAMES FOR THE FORFEITING TEAM WILL BE
COUNTED AS “FORFEIT GAMES” INCLUDING ANY GAMES PLAYED IN THE ROUND OF PLAY. A
TEAM THAT KNOWINGLY PLAYS AN UNREGISTERED, INELIGIBLE, OR SUSPENEDED PLAYER SHALL
FORFEIT ALL OF THEIR GAMES.


if the league rules a game a forfeit, all the games for that team become forfeits.

I wonder if Real GP will be banned from next year’s tournament.
At least ban the coach.
I’m not sure if this affected the brackets, though.
But I like this tournament’s rule on cheating.
There’s no way that the Real coach didn’t know that this player was ineligible.

The problem with the rule is that there were no consequences to the team or the coach. The team had no chance of moving to the next round anyway and were playing their last game and coach was not punished. Why would that coach not do it again under the same circumstances.

I also do not think it makes sense to change the results of games that were played without problems. My suggestion is to suspend the coach beyond that one game and even future tournament(s), have the team forfeit the game they played with an illegal player and ban them from advancing to the next round of the tournament. I think the coach is the main culprit in this case and deserves the toughest punishment. That way you do not affect the bracket beyond that one game that the infringement occurred and you still punish the team and the coach.

Anyone see the other semifinal?  Dallas Kicks with their regular roster was beating FCD Premier 2-1 at halftime even after a Kick's player picked up a 2nd yellow in the 10th minute(one of which was for wearing a gold chain, bogus!).  FCD had trouble scoring even after some well practiced dives gave them 2 penalty kicks.  The Kick's keeper blocked both shots.  FCD finally tied it up in regulation.  The game went to double overtime.  Playing with 10 boys became too much and FCD put in a goal in the 1st overtime that deflated the Kick's boys chances with little energy left to keep it going.  Hats off and much respect to Dallas Kicks for taking on one of the great teams in 02 and almost beating them.  FCD played a great game, but I would have liked to have seen the referee not get involved to make it a fair game.  His own AR had to convince him to change a decision on goal by FCD after the forward plowed into the keeper without going for the ball, got up and kicked the ball in.  How many times do you see an AR change the center ref's decision? Kicks played a great tournament beating Odyssey in group play and drawing Liverpool's ECNL team.

Iniesta8 wrote:Anyone see the other semifinal?  Dallas Kicks with their regular roster was beating FCD Premier 2-1 at halftime even after a Kick's player picked up a 2nd yellow in the 10th minute(one of which was for wearing a gold chain, bogus!).  FCD had trouble scoring even after some well practiced dives gave them 2 penalty kicks.  The Kick's keeper blocked both shots.  FCD finally tied it up in regulation.  The game went to double overtime.  Playing with 10 boys became too much and FCD put in a goal in the 1st overtime that deflated the Kick's boys chances with little energy left to keep it going.  Hats off and much respect to Dallas Kicks for taking on one of the great teams in 02 and almost beating them.  FCD played a great game, but I would have liked to have seen the referee not get involved to make it a fair game.  His own AR had to convince him to change a decision on goal by FCD after the forward plowed into the keeper without going for the ball, got up and kicked the ball in.  How many times do you see an AR change the center ref's decision? Kicks played a great tournament beating Odyssey in group play and drawing Liverpool's ECNL team.

Wow!
That sounded like one hell of a game!
Sad that the referee made bad calls, but that was the norm for this tournament.
The Kicks are a very good team.
But I'm curious as to why you started this with "Dallas Kicks with their regular roster".
What's up with that?

Some teams, not all, brought their DA or ECNL players to play this tournament. When you see a kid with a jersey number of 118 or some mismatched jersey, I would have to guess he didn't pick that number or wasn't on the regular roster.

Iniesta8 wrote:Some teams, not all, brought their DA or ECNL players to play this tournament. When you see a kid with a jersey number of 118 or some mismatched jersey, I would have to guess he didn't pick that number or wasn't on the regular roster.  

Ken Smith allowed for Guest Players.
What FCD did was not illegal.
The coach probably had these high numered jerseys to signify which players are Guest Players.
Bad break for the Kicks, though.

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't trying to imply that anything was done improperly or illegally like the above conversation about the other semifinal. But there's something to be said when teams use their regular roster rather than bring in kids from higher divisions to battle it out with teams that don't. I personally think State Cup shouldn't allow any guest players, period. It's supposed to measure who has the best team, not collection of the best players you can find. That's just my personal opinion and I know nothing will change on that front. Maybe the 2 Dallas Cup qualifiers shouldn't have guest players either, but I'm sure foreign teams in the Dallas Cup probably do, so all things being fair... I guess there's no choice.

GeauxBigBlue wrote:
The coach probably had these high numered jerseys to signify which players are Guest Players.

you are overthinking this... since players on the tournament roster must have unique numbers, in a pinch, you take an existing jersey and prepend a "1" for $1. problem solved.

upper95 wrote:

GeauxBigBlue wrote:
The coach probably had these high numered jerseys to signify which players are Guest Players.

you are overthinking this... since players on the tournament roster must have unique numbers, in a pinch, you take an existing jersey and prepend a "1" for $1.  problem solved.

No, not overthinking.
Just giving my personal opinion.
I don't know the coach or team.
Please go have a confrontational online argument with someone else.
Have a pleasant evening.

Iniesta8 wrote:Don't get me wrong.  I wasn't trying to imply that anything was done improperly or illegally like the above conversation about the other semifinal.  But there's something to be said when teams use their regular roster rather than bring in kids from higher divisions to battle it out with teams that don't.  I personally think State Cup shouldn't allow any guest players, period.  It's supposed to measure who has the best team, not collection of the best players you can find.  That's just my personal opinion and I know nothing will change on that front.  Maybe the 2 Dallas Cup qualifiers shouldn't have guest players either, but I'm sure foreign teams in the Dallas Cup probably do, so all things being fair... I guess there's no choice.  

@Iniesta8, I agree with you on the no guest players for a Cup Qualifier.
If you qualify for the Cup, then add one or 2 to the roster for the Cup.
I know that other teams do this. Most foreign teams probably have to, due to Passport or Visa issues.
Good luck in the next 2 qualifying tournaments.
The Kicks got it going on.