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Post by medge05mom 19/05/13, 08:18 pm

I am just curious and need some help understanding how rosters work. In a tournament I saw the same girls play on separate reams in the same bracket. I thought this was not allowed. Is this just a big club thing??? Very confusing for new comers...

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Post by Anarchy 20/05/13, 08:20 am

medge05mom wrote:I am just curious and need some help understanding how rosters work. In a tournament I saw the same girls play on separate reams in the same bracket. I thought this was not allowed. Is this just a big club thing??? Very confusing for new comers...

I would be disappointed to see that, but not surprised. What teams were involved?

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Post by TatonkaBurger 20/05/13, 08:32 am

Anarchy wrote:
medge05mom wrote:I am just curious and need some help understanding how rosters work. In a tournament I saw the same girls play on separate reams in the same bracket. I thought this was not allowed. Is this just a big club thing??? Very confusing for new comers...

I would be disappointed to see that, but not surprised. What teams were involved?

Definitely would like to hear more about this. Also not surprised. I presume you are talking about Liverpool Legends Invitational?
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Post by Anarchy 20/05/13, 08:59 am

I think I can piece this one together myself... You are with the Lady Aztecs. Liverpool Rush and Carragher shared players in their two games against you??

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Post by medge05mom 20/05/13, 09:00 am

I don't want to call any particular club/team out on such a public forum. I am just unsure how this helps to develop eight year old little girls with their game or love for soccer. It is interesting how you continuously see the same core group of girls playing on several teams. I was just under the impression that your tournament roster was suppose to be the same or very close to the season roster and that the same girls could not be on several roster for the same tournament/bracket. Having several coaches for the club coaching the same team but different girls is also a very interesting technique.

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Post by Lakedad 20/05/13, 09:05 am

medge05mom wrote:I don't want to call any particular club/team out on such a public forum. I am just unsure how this helps to develop eight year old little girls with their game or love for soccer. It is interesting how you continuously see the same core group of girls playing on several teams. I was just under the impression that your tournament roster was suppose to be the same or very close to the season roster and that the same girls could not be on several roster for the same tournament/bracket. Having several coaches for the club coaching the same team but different girls is also a very interesting technique.
Not knowing the details, if this was a situation where someone is clearly not following the rules, that needs to be made public enough to send them a message. I do think players have the ability to play in different levels (if one exists). For example if there is a gold and silver division, they can play in both so long as the tourney allows it and the players are on the roster.
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Post by Soccer Po Boy 20/05/13, 09:08 am

There must be more to this story. Liverpool would never share players and break the rules.
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Post by Soccermom03 20/05/13, 09:10 am

I know for a fact that LP Rush girls did not play with Carragher in the Aztec/Carrager game since they were all at a pool party after their last game on Sunday. Very Happy

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Post by medge05mom 20/05/13, 09:22 am

Anarchy wrote:I think I can piece this one together myself... You are with the Lady Aztecs. Liverpool Rush and Carragher shared players in their two games against you??
Not those teams...again no need to call out any particular club or team, just curious on the rules and regulations.

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Post by Anarchy 20/05/13, 09:23 am

medge05mom wrote:I don't want to call any particular club/team out on such a public forum. I am just unsure how this helps to develop eight year old little girls with their game or love for soccer. It is interesting how you continuously see the same core group of girls playing on several teams. I was just under the impression that your tournament roster was suppose to be the same or very close to the season roster and that the same girls could not be on several roster for the same tournament/bracket. Having several coaches for the club coaching the same team but different girls is also a very interesting technique.
You're new here.. Lesson 1 if you plan on sticking around in the academy soccer world into select. 1. Forget about morals, fairness, develpoment, fun and friends.. This is about Winning!

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Post by Anarchy 20/05/13, 09:29 am

medge05mom wrote:
Anarchy wrote:I think I can piece this one together myself... You are with the Lady Aztecs. Liverpool Rush and Carragher shared players in their two games against you??
Not those teams...again no need to call out any particular club or team, just curious on the rules and regulations.
Oh well... There goes my future as a PI.

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Post by medge05mom 20/05/13, 09:30 am

Anarchy wrote:
medge05mom wrote:I don't want to call any particular club/team out on such a public forum. I am just unsure how this helps to develop eight year old little girls with their game or love for soccer. It is interesting how you continuously see the same core group of girls playing on several teams. I was just under the impression that your tournament roster was suppose to be the same or very close to the season roster and that the same girls could not be on several roster for the same tournament/bracket. Having several coaches for the club coaching the same team but different girls is also a very interesting technique.
You're new here.. Lesson 1 if you plan on sticking around in the academy soccer world into select. 1. Forget about morals, fairness, develpoment, fun and friends.. This is about Winning!
That is sad...

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Post by Guest 20/05/13, 09:46 am

The rule is simple. They ARE allowed on multiple teams in the same tournament ONLY if they are playing on teams in either a differnt age group or a different level, Gold/Silver, etc... otherwise clear violation. But in academy soccer here there are those that just dont follow those rules. They make their own. How else would you market your product.

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Post by pingo99 20/05/13, 09:54 am

So what about leagues?, two "different " teams same club of course but playing in the same division but sharing at leas 3-4 girls all the time. Is that ok?

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Post by Guest 20/05/13, 09:58 am

Same rule applies in league. Permissible if playing in different levels, age group, or gender.

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Post by Lakedad 20/05/13, 09:58 am

I know a team that did that. Pooled players between tiers within a league. The motives were to evaluate players in different situations. The lowest tier allowed the girls to get additional touches on the ball and work on specific things the coaches wanted them to do to improve individually.
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Post by pingo99 20/05/13, 10:21 am

Yeah I think different levels or divisions is OK but not when both teams are on the same division much less on the same tournament's bracket...

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Post by TatonkaBurger 20/05/13, 10:22 am

At first glance, I feel very sorry for the Oklahoma team that came down to get a taste of NTX Soccer. South Lakes Cosmos '05 (OK) had a very difficult time in the Marta bracket. They lost 5-1, 8-1, 8-0 and 4-1. I wonder if they asked to be in it or if it was the TD that made that call. More on that later...

The Marta Division was obviously the gold division. Except for South Lakes Cosmos (OK), it was filled with 4 teams ranked #12 or higher in the FBRs (Lady As #3, LP Rush #6, LP Carragher #11, & LP Heighway #12). It appears to have been a round robin with the team that won being LP Rush with 30 pts., just ahead of Lady As with 27 pts. Those teams tied their match 1-1 so it became a matter of who beat the other teams and by how much in order to win the big trophy.

The Abby Wambach Division definitely had the flavor of a silver division with the exception of one team. Here is where I question if South Lakes Cosmos (OK) requested to play in Gold with the top teams or if it was a decision made by our friends at LP. LP Gerard is a team that jumped up the FBRs during the CFBAL gold season, playing very well, and sniffing the top 8 positions in the rankings. They currently sit at #16 but I believe it has been because of some late losses and maybe not having played in the first few early tournaments. In my mind, they should have been in the Marta division. There have been some rumblings about LP Rush sharing players with LP Gerard throughout CFBAL and although you don't want to throw out names, I now suspect that is where this “curious confusion” comes from. The other teams in the AW Division are ranked #27, #49, #54, and #59. However, I will point out that LP Gerard did have two 1 goal victories over the #27 ranked team (Sting East Gray) and over the #59 ranked team (FWFC White). So LP Gerard did not kick everybody’s tails but it would have been great if they had been in the Marta division.

I am a big believer in a tournament being as competitive as possible – matching up teams that should be matched up against each other. If you are going to have tiered divisions, then make them fit that desired outcome. Gold should consist of the strongest teams that signed up. The silver division should consist of the weaker group of teams. On the other hand, if the goal is to have 2 brackets that will play preliminaries and then crossover for semi-finals and finals then the brackets should be mixed with weak and strong teams. Strong teams have quality opponents in the prelims to determine seedings and the weaker teams have the ability to swing for the fence and knock off a top team and possibly advance.

Again, if the OK team demanded to be in the Marta division then I am off base and none of this is relevant. But if there is sharing of rosters between divisions to try to make sure to win one (or both) divisions, then I think it is pretty sad. Of course, if the rules of the tournament state that it is allowed, then...
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Post by Anarchy 20/05/13, 10:28 am

pingo99 wrote:Yeah I think different levels or divisions is OK but not when both teams are on the same division much less on the same tournament's bracket...

I think the exact opposite.. Why would you rather have Platinum division players helping Gold or Silver. It would make more sense to only allow girls from the same division.


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Post by NoChance 20/05/13, 10:34 am

You point out the ranking numbers, but it is a tourney. Anyone can guest play w other teams. Sting has a platinum team as well, im sure tghey were the ones playing in silver. Rankings mean nothing when u can use players from any team to help out in the tourney.

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Post by pingo99 20/05/13, 11:46 am

Anarchy wrote:
pingo99 wrote:Yeah I think different levels or divisions is OK but not when both teams are on the same division much less on the same tournament's bracket...

I think the exact opposite.. Why would you rather have Platinum division players helping Gold or Silver. It would make more sense to only allow girls from the same division.



when I say help I mean help because they don't have enough players because either they are sick or out of town etc. not just help to win a certain game or look good for recruiting. also just because a kid on a certain club is playing on a top team on platinum doesn't mean that that kid is a super star, she might be at the bottom of that group and coach might bring her down for more touches. like some one mentioned earlier...

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Post by TatonkaBurger 20/05/13, 12:17 pm

NoChance wrote:You point out the ranking numbers, but it is a tourney. Anyone can guest play w other teams. Sting has a platinum team as well, im sure tghey were the ones playing in silver. Rankings mean nothing when u can use players from any team to help out in the tourney.

I completely understand and agree. My only point is that teams should be seeded and placed in brackets or divisions in tournaments based on their rankings. The rankings are not the best thing ever but they are a very good gauge - looking at wins, losses, strength of schedule, etc. - of how good a team is or has been over the last season.

Although I bet it happens because teams need players to fill out rosters, my guess would be that most teams are not asking pure rec players who have no academy experience to guest. They are asking better quality players to try to do well in the tournament but also get those good guest players to join them long-term. So the majority of teams that have guests would probably actually play better than their ranking, not worse.

As far as the Sting team you reference, yes, they played in platinum and are a good team. But they did not win a game in the platinum division. Their playing in Silver in the tournament is fine with me.
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Post by NoChance 20/05/13, 01:13 pm

Why dont we just give credit where credit is due? Coach Baker won both tiers, end of story. She should be commended. Also, in defense of her two teams( or any team this weekend) it was 8 yr old girls playing in very high winds. Congrats LP Rush and Gerrard!

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Post by pingo99 20/05/13, 01:57 pm

Because that would be too boring!!! :-D


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Post by NoChance 20/05/13, 02:31 pm

lol ping, true that. As i looked back at the tourney scores, for both divisions, I notice Gerrard also shut out all 4 teams they faced! Not too bad considering the strong winds. I also sort of noticed the topic changef a tad frim the original post, we are assuming the two teams in question are GerrardAnd Rush. That has not been confirmed.

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