Re: Player Releases

by weatherbug 30/09/13, 12:35 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote: Also, I'd like for you to show me a kid that hasn't been on multiple Academy teams. That's what Academy is about.
I know of at least 4 on my DD's U13 team (including my DD).
Seriously Gopher, don't try to tell me that that is the norm and not the exception. I suppose none of those girls ever guest played in tourneys with other teams or even practiced with others. However, if those girls have truly never done any of those things, I suppose I shouldn't have made it sound like such an absolute in my original post.

We have 7 U13s who started academy in 2nd or 3rd grade who have stayed with the same coach. The only guest playing was to help out another team in the same club when they needed players.

by GrandTXSoccer 30/09/13, 12:46 pm

Actually from my experience the norm is kids getting on one team and playing on that one team until it implodes and they are forced to find something new or they decide to give up soccer. Most of the switching I've witnessed are in the real young ages U5-U7 but most of the time after that it takes a pretty big jolt to get folks to switch.

Doesn't mean you don't have a group of parents out there that are team jumpers, always looking for the better situation. You rarely hear of a team jumper ever working out in the long term for a team simply because most of the time the parents are nuts. Now the kids simply show up where ever they parents send them but are never in one place long enough to really form any roots.

I have no clue what your situation is C&R so my response isn't aimed at your situation because I have no clue what your history is or what you were told when it came to signing with your club. If you really want a release then I hope you get it. Nothing worse than being stuck in a bad situation. Plus with you posting it on this board that can't be good for team moral either.

by herradura 30/09/13, 12:49 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:
Barca wrote:Have you ever thought of getting back into coaching?
I'm not sure that you will ever find a team that meets your expectations better than the ones that you set. If you are not looking to get back in the dance, then you are going to have to learn how to take that coaching hat off and enjoy the beautiful game. Life is too short.
I am Barca, just not in the capacity of heading up a Select team. It is mostly just skills training at the moment.

I don't have any issue with taking a backseat to any coach. In fact, I think that it can be a good thing to have perspectives from many different coaches. It allows me to learn things that I didn't know or even experience better ways of doing things.

However, what I do have problems with are being sold on one thing and being delivered another. I have problems with lack of transparency and double standards when it comes to players. I have the motto that you practice like you play and play like you practice. I believe that should be followed no matter what the result. I believe that the definition of a successful season is not determined by a win/loss record, but by evaluating where my daughter was at the beginning of the season and where she is at the end. With that being said, I don't want to waste a year in an environment where I am not getting that and then kicking myself for not seeing the proverbial writing on the wall.

I don't think that principles of ethics are things to be rationalized. Coaching styles will differ, which is a good thing, but ethics, transparency and conduct should not.

Principles and ethics... geez. You mean like teaching your DD to commit to a team for a year and stay with it no matter the ups or downs? It is very easy to see what the problem is here - at least for everyone but you.

by Derek Please 30/09/13, 12:51 pm

Smoke & mirrors?
Lack of transparency?
Bait & Switch?

Oh man, where oh where have I heard these terms used before? Speak the truth Coach!! The truth will set you free.

by Coach&Ref 30/09/13, 01:11 pm

herradura wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
Barca wrote:Have you ever thought of getting back into coaching?
I'm not sure that you will ever find a team that meets your expectations better than the ones that you set. If you are not looking to get back in the dance, then you are going to have to learn how to take that coaching hat off and enjoy the beautiful game. Life is too short.
I am Barca, just not in the capacity of heading up a Select team. It is mostly just skills training at the moment.

I don't have any issue with taking a backseat to any coach. In fact, I think that it can be a good thing to have perspectives from many different coaches. It allows me to learn things that I didn't know or even experience better ways of doing things.

However, what I do have problems with are being sold on one thing and being delivered another. I have problems with lack of transparency and double standards when it comes to players. I have the motto that you practice like you play and play like you practice. I believe that should be followed no matter what the result. I believe that the definition of a successful season is not determined by a win/loss record, but by evaluating where my daughter was at the beginning of the season and where she is at the end. With that being said, I don't want to waste a year in an environment where I am not getting that and then kicking myself for not seeing the proverbial writing on the wall.

I don't think that principles of ethics are things to be rationalized. Coaching styles will differ, which is a good thing, but ethics, transparency and conduct should not.
Principles and ethics... geez. You mean like teaching your DD to commit to a team for a year and stay with it no matter the ups or downs? It is very easy to see what the problem is here - at least for everyone but you.

Right Herradura. Just like being sold on a shiny new car you committed to financing for 5yrs, just to have it break down a couple months later. I just hope, like the car, that it can be fixed.

Plus, you have no dog in this fight and have contributed noting to the OP. I never even mentioned the team name, coach or anything. YOU are the one that seems bent on causing chaos in this situation. I asked my innocuous question in my post and now you seem to want to know everything surrounding it in detail. My suggestion is for you to worry about yourself or ask your "little birdies" who are "in the know" about everything soccer related to get your answers. Once you do, then keep them to yourself.

by Coach&Ref 30/09/13, 01:17 pm

GrandTXSoccer wrote:Actually from my experience the norm is kids getting on one team and playing on that one team until it implodes and they are forced to find something new or they decide to give up soccer. Most of the switching I've witnessed are in the real young ages U5-U7 but most of the time after that it takes a pretty big jolt to get folks to switch.

Doesn't mean you don't have a group of parents out there that are team jumpers, always looking for the better situation. You rarely hear of a team jumper ever working out in the long term for a team simply because most of the time the parents are nuts. Now the kids simply show up where ever they parents send them but are never in one place long enough to really form any roots.

I have no clue what your situation is C&R so my response isn't aimed at your situation because I have no clue what your history is or what you were told when it came to signing with your club. If you really want a release then I hope you get it. Nothing worse than being stuck in a bad situation. Plus with you posting it on this board that can't be good for team moral either.

I guess I have just hung out with the wrong crowd then, because almost everyone I know in the soccer community have either guest played with another team, practiced with other teams, or have been on multiple teams. It's just the prudent thing to do at the younger ages to see what is out there and to be an advocate for your daughter's development.

Also, like I told Herradura, I mentioned nothing about the team nor the coach. Suppositions are just that. In addition, I will speak only for myself, but believe me, a lot of my sentiments are echoed.

by herradura 30/09/13, 01:27 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:
herradura wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
Barca wrote:Have you ever thought of getting back into coaching?
I'm not sure that you will ever find a team that meets your expectations better than the ones that you set. If you are not looking to get back in the dance, then you are going to have to learn how to take that coaching hat off and enjoy the beautiful game. Life is too short.
I am Barca, just not in the capacity of heading up a Select team. It is mostly just skills training at the moment.

I don't have any issue with taking a backseat to any coach. In fact, I think that it can be a good thing to have perspectives from many different coaches. It allows me to learn things that I didn't know or even experience better ways of doing things.

However, what I do have problems with are being sold on one thing and being delivered another. I have problems with lack of transparency and double standards when it comes to players. I have the motto that you practice like you play and play like you practice. I believe that should be followed no matter what the result. I believe that the definition of a successful season is not determined by a win/loss record, but by evaluating where my daughter was at the beginning of the season and where she is at the end. With that being said, I don't want to waste a year in an environment where I am not getting that and then kicking myself for not seeing the proverbial writing on the wall.

I don't think that principles of ethics are things to be rationalized. Coaching styles will differ, which is a good thing, but ethics, transparency and conduct should not.
Principles and ethics... geez. You mean like teaching your DD to commit to a team for a year and stay with it no matter the ups or downs? It is very easy to see what the problem is here - at least for everyone but you.

Right Herradura. Just like being sold on a shiny new car you committed to financing for 5yrs, just to have it break down a couple months later. I just hope, like the car, that it can be fixed.

Plus, you have no dog in this fight and have contributed noting to the OP. I never even mentioned the team name, coach or anything. YOU are the one that seems bent on causing chaos in this situation. I asked my innocuous question in my post and now you seem to want to know everything surrounding it in detail. My suggestion is for you to worry about yourself or ask your "little birdies" who are "in the know" about everything soccer related to get your answers. Once you do, then keep them to yourself.

Yep, and 99% of the time it is operator error.

Sorry coach, not much more "little birdies" can tell me about this situation. Good luck getting your release and finding that perfect team - guess you still have plenty of Liverpool teams to try out!

by Coach&Ref 30/09/13, 01:39 pm

herradura wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
herradura wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
Barca wrote:Have you ever thought of getting back into coaching?
I'm not sure that you will ever find a team that meets your expectations better than the ones that you set. If you are not looking to get back in the dance, then you are going to have to learn how to take that coaching hat off and enjoy the beautiful game. Life is too short.
I am Barca, just not in the capacity of heading up a Select team. It is mostly just skills training at the moment.

I don't have any issue with taking a backseat to any coach. In fact, I think that it can be a good thing to have perspectives from many different coaches. It allows me to learn things that I didn't know or even experience better ways of doing things.

However, what I do have problems with are being sold on one thing and being delivered another. I have problems with lack of transparency and double standards when it comes to players. I have the motto that you practice like you play and play like you practice. I believe that should be followed no matter what the result. I believe that the definition of a successful season is not determined by a win/loss record, but by evaluating where my daughter was at the beginning of the season and where she is at the end. With that being said, I don't want to waste a year in an environment where I am not getting that and then kicking myself for not seeing the proverbial writing on the wall.

I don't think that principles of ethics are things to be rationalized. Coaching styles will differ, which is a good thing, but ethics, transparency and conduct should not.
Principles and ethics... geez. You mean like teaching your DD to commit to a team for a year and stay with it no matter the ups or downs? It is very easy to see what the problem is here - at least for everyone but you.

Right Herradura. Just like being sold on a shiny new car you committed to financing for 5yrs, just to have it break down a couple months later. I just hope, like the car, that it can be fixed.

Plus, you have no dog in this fight and have contributed noting to the OP. I never even mentioned the team name, coach or anything. YOU are the one that seems bent on causing chaos in this situation. I asked my innocuous question in my post and now you seem to want to know everything surrounding it in detail. My suggestion is for you to worry about yourself or ask your "little birdies" who are "in the know" about everything soccer related to get your answers. Once you do, then keep them to yourself.
Yep, and 99% of the time it is operator error.

Sorry coach, not much more "little birdies" can tell me about this situation. Good luck getting your release and finding that perfect team - guess you still have plenty of Liverpool teams to try out!

I don't know where you come up with that statistic, but like most everything, you just throw Jello at the wall and hope something sticks.

And what makes you think that "I" want a release? Maybe there is another motive here. Maybe it's about opening up a dialog with the coach that was previously forbidden. Maybe the point was to have other drama seeking people, such as yourself, go running to the coach so that any issues can be resolved.

Also, what does it even matter if "I" wanted a release? There are still 14-15 players on the roster that are just as capable to handle the load from one players loss.

by herradura 30/09/13, 01:47 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:
herradura wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
herradura wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
Barca wrote:Have you ever thought of getting back into coaching?
I'm not sure that you will ever find a team that meets your expectations better than the ones that you set. If you are not looking to get back in the dance, then you are going to have to learn how to take that coaching hat off and enjoy the beautiful game. Life is too short.
I am Barca, just not in the capacity of heading up a Select team. It is mostly just skills training at the moment.

I don't have any issue with taking a backseat to any coach. In fact, I think that it can be a good thing to have perspectives from many different coaches. It allows me to learn things that I didn't know or even experience better ways of doing things.

However, what I do have problems with are being sold on one thing and being delivered another. I have problems with lack of transparency and double standards when it comes to players. I have the motto that you practice like you play and play like you practice. I believe that should be followed no matter what the result. I believe that the definition of a successful season is not determined by a win/loss record, but by evaluating where my daughter was at the beginning of the season and where she is at the end. With that being said, I don't want to waste a year in an environment where I am not getting that and then kicking myself for not seeing the proverbial writing on the wall.

I don't think that principles of ethics are things to be rationalized. Coaching styles will differ, which is a good thing, but ethics, transparency and conduct should not.
Principles and ethics... geez. You mean like teaching your DD to commit to a team for a year and stay with it no matter the ups or downs? It is very easy to see what the problem is here - at least for everyone but you.

Right Herradura. Just like being sold on a shiny new car you committed to financing for 5yrs, just to have it break down a couple months later. I just hope, like the car, that it can be fixed.

Plus, you have no dog in this fight and have contributed noting to the OP. I never even mentioned the team name, coach or anything. YOU are the one that seems bent on causing chaos in this situation. I asked my innocuous question in my post and now you seem to want to know everything surrounding it in detail. My suggestion is for you to worry about yourself or ask your "little birdies" who are "in the know" about everything soccer related to get your answers. Once you do, then keep them to yourself.
Yep, and 99% of the time it is operator error.

Sorry coach, not much more "little birdies" can tell me about this situation. Good luck getting your release and finding that perfect team - guess you still have plenty of Liverpool teams to try out!
I don't know where you come up with that statistic, but like most everything, you just throw Jello at the wall and hope something sticks.

And what makes you think that "I" want a release? Maybe there is another motive here. Maybe it's about opening up a dialog with the coach that was previously forbidden. Maybe the point was to have other drama seeking people, such as yourself, go running to the coach so that any issues can be resolved.

Also, what does it even matter if "I" wanted a release? There are still 14-15 players on the roster that are just as capable to handle the load from one players loss.

Ok Coach, go back to page 1 and read your own comments. It seems like you wanting a release from your current team. Maybe I am wrong, but it sure seems that way when reading.

Then you read a little more and at least I started questioning the motive...

If you did not want people to weigh in one way or the other, you should not have posted it on a public forum where you have made it very clear in the past what team your DD plays for. If you wanted pure advise, it would have been best to create a new user name and have this as post #1.

But it seems you were wanting to make a statement of some sort which is another red flag.

by Coach&Ref 30/09/13, 01:59 pm

Ok Coach, go back to page 1 and read your own comments. It seems like you wanting a release from your current team. Maybe I am wrong, but it sure seems that way when reading.

Then you read a little more and at least I started questioning the motive...

If you did not want people to weigh in one way or the other, you should not have posted it on a public forum where you have made it very clear in the past what team your DD plays for..

I wanted people to weigh in on the process and success/failure of their experiences. I got that from the first few posts and PMs. The rest of the thread became a fishing expedition.

I have a lot of posts, but don't remember saying the team or coach my daughter played for. Plus according to you, it's been everywhere, so I must have mentioned a ton of teams! lol!

Just let it go already. The thread has already had the desired effect. Now it just becomes a pissing contest.

by GrandTXSoccer 30/09/13, 02:03 pm

I look at guesting and switching teams two completely different things. You originally mentioned getting a release, that to me means switching teams. Switching teams actually isn't all that common unless a team implodes or there's a major coaching change. Most of the time kids start on a team, stay on that team (no matter how poorly the coaching is) because parents don't want to hurt their kids feelings by moving them to another team without their friends.

You see guesting quite a bit in the lower ages, which is also why I think you see more empahsis on winning than development even at the lower ages. The most common reason for people leaving one team for another is winning, occasionally you will see it because of development reasons but most of the time it's because of winning. Oh they might tell you it's because of development but lets just be honest, most of the time it's because of winning.

If you truly want to get a release ask for one, if they refuse then I believe you can appeal it (not sure how successful that is) but it's an option. Now if you truly believe you were mislead by false or misleading statements which could reasonably be expected to influence your original decision then that would be considered a recruiting violation and the coaches could be sanctioned. That's the best advice I've got in a player release situation.

by Guest 30/09/13, 02:25 pm

Switching teams isn't all that common? Huh? The silly season is buzzing with activity every year 2 months before signing. I'd bet the vast majority of teams are made up of majority players who didnt start out with that team in academy. At u13 the 01s have several teams where the majority haven't even been there since start of select.

Weatherbug's team is thought of as one of the most consistent around, and they only have 7?

Don't let reality get in the way of the bashing this man is due.....geesh.

by A Ref 30/09/13, 02:41 pm

Just a few thoughts. It is October 1, you just signed in July and you are disgruntled already! Wow!!! When you get your release where are you going to go? I am willing to bet most if not all the top level teams are full. If I was a coach and saw you and your dd getting out of the car to come to practice I would tell you to leave. I don't need a parent giving hand signals and advice to his kid during a game. How is she supposed to think if you are acting like a joystick on the sidelines? Get over yourself and live with the decisions you make.

by Coach&Ref 30/09/13, 02:49 pm

A Ref wrote:Just a few thoughts. It is October 1, you just signed in July and you are disgruntled already! Wow!!! When you get your release where are you going to go? I am willing to bet most if not all the top level teams are full. If I was a coach and saw you and your dd getting out of the car to come to practice I would tell you to leave. I don't need a parent giving hand signals and advice to his kid during a game. How is she supposed to think if you are acting like a joystick on the sidelines? Get over yourself and live with the decisions you make.

You don't know me or what I do on the sidelines. In fact, I just sit and watch while everyone else is talking, gesticulating and yelling.

And are you talking as a coach or a parent when you said you'd tell me to leave? If as a parent, I'd say that you must be threatened by new talent and paranoid about the possibility of your daughter getting less playing time. As a coach, I would say, "Your loss."

Also, it's nice to see you made up a username just to hide behind your identity. That's pretty cowardly.

by jsullivan81 30/09/13, 02:55 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:
A Ref wrote:Also, it's nice to see you made up a username just to hide behind your identity. That's pretty cowardly.
Not to be Captain obvious, but if they made up the username 6 months ago just for this post, I need to seek their advice on the stock market. Since they have the capability of seeing that far into the future.

by time2win 30/09/13, 02:59 pm

Its a shame to see parents ruining it for their kids.

by Coach&Ref 30/09/13, 03:06 pm

jsullivan81 wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
A Ref wrote:Also, it's nice to see you made up a username just to hide behind your identity. That's pretty cowardly.
Not to be Captain obvious, but if they made up the username 6 months ago just for this post, I need to seek their advice on the stock market. Since they have the capability of seeing that far into the future.

Right. Like nobody has multiple accounts made just to troll. I'm willing to bet that if this guy made his account 6mos ago and is just now using his second post to comment on this thread, then this thread must have really hit a nerve for him to come out of the shadows.

Give me a break.

by Coach&Ref 30/09/13, 03:07 pm

time2win wrote:Its a shame to see parents ruining it for their kids.

I agree.

by weatherbug 30/09/13, 03:13 pm

4-3-3 wrote:Switching teams isn't all that common? Huh? The silly season is buzzing with activity every year 2 months before signing. I'd bet the vast majority of teams are made up of majority players who didnt start out with that team in academy. At u13 the 01s have several teams where the majority haven't even been there since start of select.

Weatherbug's team is thought of as one of the most consistent around, and they only have 7?

Don't let reality get in the way of the bashing this man is due.....geesh.

We have 12 who've been together since the start of select. All 16 stayed from the roster last year! cheers

by A Ref 30/09/13, 03:26 pm

Whatever. your dd is a nice kid. Sorry you made a decision for her that didn't work out. Live with it and move on when your obligation is fulfilled. She will learn a lot more in the long run about life. Soccer is a game. Didn't hit a nerve at all, just surprised that your due diligence didn't pay off.

by banana kick 30/09/13, 04:05 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:Has anyone had any luck obtaining a player release (other than a release to rec) this season? Has anyone heard of anyone being successful obtaining one? If so, how did they go about it?

I'm assuming you've voiced your concerns with your coach, and, if so, you've taken the necessary first step. I'd recommend reaching out to your coach again, expressing a desire for a change of some sort, either on the pitch or perhaps a move away from the team. You'll know rather quickly what the realistic chances of a full release are.

The only way I see it happening is if you cordially exhaust your alternatives with your coach. No coach wants to lose a great player, but if you are respectful of the coach and the process, who knows?

A word of caution: be thoughtful in how you proceed. It matters.

by Coach&Ref 30/09/13, 04:18 pm

A Ref wrote:Whatever. your dd is a nice kid. Sorry you made a decision for her that didn't work out. Live with it and move on when your obligation is fulfilled. She will learn a lot more in the long run about life. Soccer is a game. Didn't hit a nerve at all, just surprised that your due diligence didn't pay off.

So you know my daughter? Why don't you step up and tell me who you are instead of hiding behind anonymity? Grow a pair and step up.

by Coach&Ref 30/09/13, 04:23 pm

Just a follow up to all of you "concerned" posters. The coach called me and we were able to come to an agreement that was mutually satisfactory.

I don't know how the coach knew it was me (thanks Herradura), but it all got worked out. flower

by herradura 30/09/13, 04:31 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:Just a follow up to all of you "concerned" posters. The coach called me and we were able to come to an agreement that was mutually satisfactory.

I don't know how the coach knew it was me (thanks Herradura), but it all got worked out.

You mean you actually picked up the phone and had a conversation with the coach? Holy crap! That is the most genius thing I have ever heard of.

I mean, most people would have kept spewing non since into cyberspace until the cyber soccer wizard appeared and granted them three wishes to fix a team related issue...

by Coach&Ref 30/09/13, 04:35 pm

herradura wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:Just a follow up to all of you "concerned" posters. The coach called me and we were able to come to an agreement that was mutually satisfactory.

I don't know how the coach knew it was me (thanks Herradura), but it all got worked out.
You mean you actually picked up the phone and had a conversation with the coach? Holy crap! That is the most genius thing I have ever heard of.

I mean, most people would have kept posting their concerns into cyberspace until the cyber soccer wizard appeared and granted them three wishes to fix a team related issue...

Nope! The coach called me! Thanks for arranging that. What a Face

by herradura 30/09/13, 04:57 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:
herradura wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:Just a follow up to all of you "concerned" posters. The coach called me and we were able to come to an agreement that was mutually satisfactory.

I don't know how the coach knew it was me (thanks Herradura), but it all got worked out.
You mean you actually picked up the phone and had a conversation with the coach? Holy crap! That is the most genius thing I have ever heard of.

I mean, most people would have kept posting their concerns into cyberspace until the cyber soccer wizard appeared and granted them three wishes to fix a team related issue...
Nope! The coach called me! Thanks for arranging that.

What an idiot...

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