CPP Question

Can you use cpp for games in the same division?  I heard Sting Garret used Sting Parker players against Andromeda this weekend.  I didn't believe it the first time I heard  it because it definitely seemed like a conflict of interest.  Back of the Net what do your Parker sources tell you?

No dog in this hunt...but would that really be in the "spirit" of the rule? I guess so, help out the club at all costs. LOL

All kidding aside, that would certainly seem like a conflict of interest.

I have no idea whether there was CPP or not.

The answer to your question is you can CPP to any division as long as LHGCL approves the CPP. The restriction-simply put-is that a player cannot play 2 games on the same day for 2 different teams. IOW, you cannot be rostered on 2 teams on the same day; you must be deactivated from one and activated on the other.

Hope that helps.

All that said, my understanding from others is that Garrett is down with several injuries so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a CPP in that case.

I guess maybe they needed the players to field a team and avoid a forfeit. I could understand that.

textigerfan wrote:I guess maybe they needed the players to field a team and avoid a forfeit.  I could understand that.

Ohhhh Goddddd....not another question about CPP  

Get ready for a 10 page thread about it now

haha....you know it!

backofthenet wrote:All that said, my understanding from others is that Garrett is down with several injuries so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a CPP in that case.

I sincerely hope this isn't true. For SP to send its players to play in a match against a team in direct competition for the LH title, would be ... Regrettable.

Seven, is this true?

I have nothing to say about the matter

[quote]I guess maybe they needed the players to field a team and avoid a forfeit.  I could understand that.[/quote]

They had plenty of players on the bench.

However, looking at the result, it would appear that it didn't matter anyway.

I heard there were 29 sting girls there from various teams and a multitude of coaches. A veritable sting family reunion. Mac and cheese was good and aunt Bessie dislocated a hip in the three legged race.

Maybe just 18 girls and a couple of coaches...but what fun! I know at least one of the sting g girls that is out long term.

[quote="DrPepper"]

I guess maybe they needed the players to field a team and avoid a forfeit.  I could understand that.

They had plenty of players on the bench.

However, looking at the result, it would appear that it didn't matter anyway.[/quote]

I guess it will matter if there is a tie breaker later w Parker at the top or Garrett at the bottom (as it stands).

The rules allow for it and certain clubs will do what they can to keep struggling teams in the league or in this case, D1.  
It certainly isn't the  first time (and won't be the last time) CPP has affected promotion/relegation.

I guess those normal players then are just happy to be there. What a great experience they will treasure forever. It is what it is.

It's my understanding Sting North Garrett has been plagued with injuries for a few weeks.  I know Sting North 01 has loaned players out a couple of times to help including one who played this past weekend against Andro (one of their 2 CPPs).

Upon further review, the runner was down by contact before fumbling the ball.

Oh wait.

Upon further review, CPP was used to compensate for injury. There were two used. From my understanding there are several injuries on SG. I don't know because I wasn't there, but that's the word. LH approved these CPPs bc of injury.

As to the level of player that was CPP'd, I do not know. Was she a full-time player? Is she a superstar? Was she used to gain an unfair advantage? Or could it be that maybe these players aren't playing enough on their respective rosters so this was opportunity to to get more field time? And maybe there are injuries.

Personally I think it's foolish to CPP because what if that player or players get injured and effect the team they were on loan from?

I think CPP has merit when used with properly and with integrity. Does anyone know the intent of Coach G or Coach P in this circumstance? Or how the club handles it from a leadership standpoint? That's the real question. Intent.

Where does it begin and where does it end? Is dual rostering "fair"? What about when players come in from ECNL to help a LH team? Is that different? Hopkins used/uses ECNL. Elite uses them. Why are we not crying foul with those teams?

The punchcard for me is intent. In my opinion it's unlikely that SP had an agenda to try thwart Andromeda. I don't buy that for one second. Did SG need bench help? Sounds like it but I don't the intent or purpose.

For the record, not a fan of CPP or ECNL dual roster. But used correctly it has merit. You're trusting the coaches to have integrity with the process. If you trust them to use it correctly as intended, then it's hard to argue.

In the end you have to play the game. If your team is good enough it may not matter. In Andro's case, they're better than SG generally speaking, even with alternate players. SP was better than Solar Hopkins even with SH having ECNL guest and a dual rostered player. Elite beat Flanagan handily. They have ECNL and dual rostered girls. Shame on them?

Props to Grado and props to Parker and props to any other coach who goes about their business of teaching the game and doing the best they can with what they have. We can't assume intent.

Just play the game.

Before we solve the JFK assignation Yes two players did help out Garrett on the defense end and both were not full time player hope that helps.

What? JFK was assassinated??

No, no Back, the story is that they finally captured Big Foot and Area 51 is now open for tours.

For a second there you had me worried.

It is true, but it didn't matter to Andromeda. They have their own injuries as well, but played solid with their own team.

textigerfan wrote:I guess those normal players then are just happy to be there.  What a great experience they will treasure forever.  It is what it is.

Hey Tex-
Your point that healthy Sting G players suffered a loss of playing time is well taken, but  I doubt the players and parents were polled for their input. I'm not sure what course of action they (or any of us) could have taken when presented with this situation.

I guess that leads to a good question, what is the recourse or the proper reaction for the player/parents in this situation?

Coach PR and his staff have completed an extensive investigation of Sunday's match in question, aka Sting Gate. Depositions were taken, informants were paid, fingernails were pulled and water-boards were utilized.  The Andromeda-StingParker/Garrett match's simple facts:

A) Sting G had more than enough players and subs to play the match, without "Club Help".  
B) Sting P had 2 players and 1 coach present at Sunday's match.
C) Sting Parker, Andromeda, and Solar Elite are in a 3 way race for the LH D1 Championship.
D) Draws, GA, GF, GD will most likely be deciding  factors at the end of the year.

backofthenet wrote:
Upon further review, CPP was used to compensate for injury. There were two used. From my understanding  there are several injuries on SG. I don't know because I wasn't there, but that's the word.  LH approved these CPPs bc of injury.

As to the level of player that was CPP'd, I do not know. Was she a full-time player? Is she a superstar? Was she used to gain an unfair advantage? Or could it be that maybe these players aren't playing enough on their respective rosters so this was opportunity to to get more field time? And maybe there are injuries.

I'm not sure what LHGCL approved, but my investigators found that there were more than a full lineup and a few subs from the current Sting G roster available, so Sting G injuries were not a factor for CPP in this instance.

Please define part-time player. Surely its not a player that trains part time with the team and pays partial dues?  I wasn't aware that a part-time D1 Sting P player was significantly better than a full-time D1 Sting G player.

If the 'sent players' in question were not difference makers, why send them to a 85-90% healthy team?

Moving forward, I submit that any player who competed, made her team, practices regularly and paid their finances is a full-time soccer player.

backofthenet wrote:
I think CPP has merit when used with properly and with integrity. Does anyone know the intent of Coach G or Coach P in this circumstance? Or how the club handles it from a leadership standpoint? That's the real question. Intent.

True, intent is unknowable, but I'm not sure it is applicable here. If I were cited for speeding, I'm not sure my intentions help at that traffic stop, unless there was an emergency.

What was the the emergency here? What is the desired effect of adding 2 defensive players to a team with perhaps 15-16 healthy players?  I believe the results of a Draw or less GF have on the tD1 top 3 standings are quantifiable.

backofthenet wrote:
Where does it begin and where does it end? Is dual rostering "fair"? What about when players come in from ECNL to help a LH team? Is that different? Hopkins used/uses ECNL. Elite uses them. Why are we not crying foul with those teams

That is question of the year!  If this behavior passes, the abuse is going to escalate. Anyone with kids knows that, The End does not start with,  "The other kids are smoking crack!" Argument... Well Hell, why didn't you mention that before! Here, son, let me light your pipe...

Even if that justified it, it doesn't apply to this case...Dual rostering is a horse of a different color.  Those are NOT guests, they are ROSTERED and KNOWN to be on the roster.

Further,
1-FCD-Blue isn't challenging Sting P for the D1 title.
2-Some of those ECNL Solar players played most of their careers with CP before moving to ECNL; its probably more personal, than a club decision.
3-Anyone who believes AS is going to send to his best top ECNL players to help SH avoid relegation and jeopardize a national championship is smoking crack.

backofthenet wrote:
The punchcard for me is intent. In my opinion it's unlikely that SP had an agenda to try thwart Andromeda. I don't buy that for one second. Did SG need bench help? Sounds like it but I don't the intent or purpose.

For the record, not a fan of CPP or ECNL dual roster. But used correctly it has merit. You're trusting the coaches to have integrity with the process. If you trust them to use it correctly as intended, then it's hard to argue.

The problem isn't the rule!  Large and small clubs should have the flexibility of moving players up or down based on player ability or as injuries dictate, as is done in academies throughout the rest of the country.  

For the record, I know BOTN is coming from a good place about this, but, on this, I must respectfully disagree; this isn't a hard argument. Agenda or no, SP benefitted from its contribution to this match.

backofthenet wrote:
In the end you have to play the game. If your team is good enough it may not matter. In Andro's case, they're better than SG generally speaking, even with alternate players. SP was better than Solar Hopkins even with SH having ECNL guest and a dual rostered player. Elite beat Flanagan handily. They have ECNL and dual rostered girls. Shame on them?

Props to Grado and props to Parker and props to any other coach who goes about their business of teaching the game and doing the best they can with what they have. We can't assume intent.

Just play the game.

I agree that all of the coaches mentioned are outstanding teachers and individuals.

Its a fact of life, appearances do matter. Regardless of intent,  StingG players were not the main beneficiary of CPP this past weekend. Ignoring it, making excuses and legalese will not make it better.

Changing, modifying or closing CPP loopholes isn't necessary, will be a waste of time, and won't eliminate collusion.

The LHGCL board has the power to warn, censure and sanction teams/clubs for violating "the spirit" of its rules in its charter. The board should act accordingly in this case, and send a message that the mere appearance of impropriety will not be tolerated.

Pack, not sure what you can do except as a group voice displeasure to the coach. May or may not get you anywhere. I just know that if my kid was a normal rostered player, injuries occurred, the coach went out unnecessarily to recruit players to fill a slot for one game, and my kid did not play as a result. I would be highly pissed. Of course, the coach may not care. The scenario at the surface appears as a potential win for both Sting teams standings wise. Again, no dog in the hunt and really could care less who wins D1. But in this case, kudos to Andromeda. Glad they won.

Let's be honest, LHGCL is run by the big clubs and rules like CPP benefit (and are abused by) the big clubs the most.

They don't like it when smaller clubs rain on their parade.