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FC Dallas Coaching Changes

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Post by TatonkaBurger 02/02/15, 02:46 pm

Zizou wrote:1- what club in dallas is not about the money? Liverpool?

That's funny.  They are all the same.  Money is the driving force.

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Post by go99 02/02/15, 03:02 pm

Zizou wrote:1- what club in dallas is not about the money? Liverpool?

2-most ECNL clubs through Academy already have the top teams in their respective division and highly ranked on the national level.

3- old boy, this I can agree with. They seem to have a strangle hold on NTX soccer.

4- just cannot support all of your claims.

I believe that was some of the earlier claims. They have top teams in their divisions because they are able to ECNL to recruit the players away from the teams that develop them. And yes what CLUB is not about money? Unfortunately we are not talking about a club we are talking about a LEAGUE that is supposed to improve the level over soccer in the US not just help pad the pockets of its buddies and overall raising the cost of a sport that is already too expensive.
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Post by RobMac63 19/05/15, 02:04 am

All clubs are NOT the Same!! Shop wisely with your kids best interest and development in mind.

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Post by SickofStupidity 19/05/15, 07:46 am

Do tell!

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Post by TatonkaBurger 19/05/15, 08:20 am

RobMac63 wrote:All clubs are NOT the Same!!  Shop wisely with your kids best interest and development in mind.

drunken drunken drunken
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Post by Guest 19/05/15, 08:51 am

Do players/parents on Non-ECNL teams that aspire to do ECNL have a club in mind already or do they just try out and take the best offer?

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Post by soccerjack 19/05/15, 09:26 am

go99 wrote:
Zizou wrote:1- what club in dallas is not about the money? Liverpool?

2-most ECNL clubs through Academy already have the top teams in their respective division and highly ranked on the national level.

3- old boy, this I can agree with. They seem to have a strangle hold on NTX soccer.

4- just cannot support all of your claims.

I believe that was some of the earlier claims.  They have top teams in their divisions because they are able to ECNL to recruit the players away from the teams that develop them.  And yes what CLUB is not about money?  Unfortunately we are not talking about a club we are talking about a LEAGUE that is supposed to improve the level over soccer in the US not just help pad the pockets of its buddies and overall raising the cost of a sport that is already too expensive.  


What's so amazing about the ECNL is that the other clubs have not sued them for Collusion or being a monopoly.  I'm not an attorney, but deal with business law enough to see some issues.

My understanding is that the member clubs vote on who is in and who is out.....not based on any type of metric.  You would think on past performance that Sting, Solar and Texans would have a good case to stay in.  Sting-sheer number and quality of teams, Solar and Texans smaller number but high quality.  On the other hand Fcd has had a ton of teams and maybe one or two that are competitive, Feet fewer teams same scenario.  Liverpool blows both of the latter clubs away.  

These clubs act like they are above business standards.  In the real world there have been people that have gone to jail for Collusion, Monopolies have been broken up and anti competitive practices stopped.  I could really give a crap about ECNL either way at this age, but it is interesting.  You have a similar situation with club byes, CPP etc.....

ECNL gives a competitive advantage to the clubs in it.  DD never played for LFC, but I'd love to see them challenge it legally.

Go,.. get on this....If there's a settlement put my name on it. Make check payable to Soccerjack.


Last edited by soccerjack on 19/05/15, 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Zizou 19/05/15, 09:40 am

I've got your in liverfools. Buy D'feeters! Good luck!

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Post by GrandTXSoccer 19/05/15, 11:09 am

I'm shocked they haven't made two ECNL leagues and invited more clubs to join. Then you could have relegation and new clubs getting a chance to compete. No longer could you just wait for someone else to develop your team for you and then take them at the last moment. I just don't see LP ever getting in to either of the top leagues, boys or girls. Just doesn't seem to be PB's goal. Apparently he's fine with being a feeder system and buying other clubs around the country. There's nothing wrong with that model, it seems to be making LP money, but it's definitely something to be aware of when looking for a team to play on.

To the original post, coaching movement is really not all that uncommon. It's rare that you will have a coach stay with a team from Academy through select. In some ways that's good for stability (if you have a good coach) on the other hand it's also good to get a fresh set of eyes on your team because even the best of coaches get stuck in routines and miss out on opportunities for players to have success at different positions. I really don't think many clubs try to truly develop teams, it's all generally recruit the fastest, biggest kids when they are young, win games and then start replacing with better developed kids from other teams. Ta-da, you now have a top team. That's the NTX model, it's not changing.

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Post by Guest 19/05/15, 11:32 am

GrandTXSoccer wrote:I'm shocked they haven't made two ECNL leagues and invited more clubs to join.  

I'm not.  IMO, the dumbest thing that ECNL could do would be to over-saturate in a particular geographical region.  ECNL's success is driven by NCAA D1 recruiting.  When the D1 college coaches go to a tournament or showcase (whether it's an ECNL event, National League, or Showcase tournament), they want to see as much D1 talent playing against other D1 talent as they can.  They don't want to see D1 talent playing against a bunch of D2 or D3 talent.  

The D1 talent wants to be seen by the D1 College Coaches, so they are going to migrate to the teams that will give them the best opportunity for that.  Right now, in NTX, that's the ECNL clubs, and the occasional non-ECNL team from NTX that can stay together and compete on the National Level (i.e. Kicks SC '01, or the LP Pulp '98/'00 teams before they moved to Solar)

If ECNL were to add teams in the Texas Conference, the talent level would naturally dilute across those additional teams.  You dilute the talent level, the D1 coaches become less inclined to attend ECNL events, ECNL becomes a less attractive option for the D1 level players, ECNL makes less money.

As with any business, the key is finding the correct sweet spot with regards to market share.  Higher market share does not always mean higher profits or higher profit margin.

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Post by Guest 19/05/15, 12:37 pm

bwgophers wrote:
GrandTXSoccer wrote:I'm shocked they haven't made two ECNL leagues and invited more clubs to join.  

I'm not.  IMO, the dumbest thing that ECNL could do would be to over-saturate in a particular geographical region.  ECNL's success is driven by NCAA D1 recruiting.  When the D1 college coaches go to a tournament or showcase (whether it's an ECNL event, National League, or Showcase tournament), they want to see as much D1 talent playing against other D1 talent as they can.  They don't want to see D1 talent playing against a bunch of D2 or D3 talent.  

The D1 talent wants to be seen by the D1 College Coaches, so they are going to migrate to the teams that will give them the best opportunity for that.  Right now, in NTX, that's the ECNL clubs, and the occasional non-ECNL team from NTX that can stay together and compete on the National Level (i.e. Kicks SC '01, or the LP Pulp '98/'00 teams before they moved to Solar)

If ECNL were to add teams in the Texas Conference, the talent level would naturally dilute across those additional teams.  You dilute the talent level, the D1 coaches become less inclined to attend ECNL events, ECNL becomes a less attractive option for the D1 level players, ECNL makes less money.

As with any business, the key is finding the correct sweet spot with regards to market share.  Higher market share does not always mean higher profits or higher profit margin.

I dunno about all that. US Club Soccer is doing exactly that with their NPL leagues and various national championships. They're spawning new offspring faster than catholic rabbits (borrowed but still valid Very Happy).  

Read the NY/NJ forums and there is a bunch of talk about ridiculous number of leagues and national championships.  Add to that  - ECNL is up to 80 clubs now, and there is no longer any arguing that a good number of those clubs are not competitive most age groups. I think if a program is routinely putting girls on the national team, ECNL will continue to add those clubs because the marketing message falls down if it continues to be 40% of D1 commits and 40% of national team players coming from non ECNL clubs. I also think college coaches believe that ECNL has the majority of the top talent, but the better programs definitely DO NOT believe all the top players are found in ECNL. US Club soccer will keep spawning leagues until the market dynamics don't support it (or until they've killed off USYS for good, whichever comes first).

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Post by JH01 19/05/15, 02:31 pm

There will always be coaching changes. which is good for the players and the team after a few years.

The questions for FCD girls program is there needs to be a person in charge of the Girls Academy Division. Chris Clarke is not the answer and it probabaly is not his real job. His real job is to bring in teams, coaches, numbers,lots of numbers of players and run camps and bring in a certain amount of money. The issue here is no one on the girls side is in charge. The boys Academy side(youngers) seems to have a leader and top coaches in charge working together to forms teams as a team of coaches. The girls side is everyone for himself or herself and steal backstab do whatever I can for me and my team. They do not have a leader and a team of coaches. The teams that have done well for FCD in the past had a leader who was in charge but it was a means to an end... to have the best teams and coach ECNL. Matt Grubb has done it. And before that there was a struggle and the next best coach Pulp left for money with Liverpool, then left for ECNL spots with Solar. It will always change for the girls with FCD until there is a team of coaches working together for the Academy youth side of things and that is their role...not to move up and coach the ECNL. Just one person's opinion.

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Post by Guest 19/05/15, 03:16 pm

4-3-3 wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
GrandTXSoccer wrote:I'm shocked they haven't made two ECNL leagues and invited more clubs to join.  

I'm not.  IMO, the dumbest thing that ECNL could do would be to over-saturate in a particular geographical region.  ECNL's success is driven by NCAA D1 recruiting.  When the D1 college coaches go to a tournament or showcase (whether it's an ECNL event, National League, or Showcase tournament), they want to see as much D1 talent playing against other D1 talent as they can.  They don't want to see D1 talent playing against a bunch of D2 or D3 talent.  

The D1 talent wants to be seen by the D1 College Coaches, so they are going to migrate to the teams that will give them the best opportunity for that.  Right now, in NTX, that's the ECNL clubs, and the occasional non-ECNL team from NTX that can stay together and compete on the National Level (i.e. Kicks SC '01, or the LP Pulp '98/'00 teams before they moved to Solar)

If ECNL were to add teams in the Texas Conference, the talent level would naturally dilute across those additional teams.  You dilute the talent level, the D1 coaches become less inclined to attend ECNL events, ECNL becomes a less attractive option for the D1 level players, ECNL makes less money.

As with any business, the key is finding the correct sweet spot with regards to market share.  Higher market share does not always mean higher profits or higher profit margin.

I dunno about all that. US Club Soccer is doing exactly that with their NPL leagues and various national championships. They're spawning new offspring faster than catholic rabbits (borrowed but still valid Very Happy).  

Read the NY/NJ forums and there is a bunch of talk about ridiculous number of leagues and national championships.  Add to that  - ECNL is up to 80 clubs now, and there is no longer any arguing that a good number of those clubs are not competitive most age groups. I think if a program is routinely putting girls on the national team, ECNL will continue to add those clubs because the marketing message falls down if it continues to be 40% of D1 commits and 40% of national team players coming from non ECNL clubs. I also think college coaches believe that ECNL has the majority of the top talent, but the better programs definitely DO NOT believe all the top players are found in ECNL. US Club soccer will keep spawning leagues until the market dynamics don't support it (or until they've killed off USYS for good, whichever comes first).

I'm not talking about ECNL on a National Level.  On a National Level, there may still be room for ECNL to grow significantly. I'm talking about on a regional level, and specifically as it applies to NTX.  The pool of D1 caliber players is only so large in NTX, and ECNL has managed to grab the overwhelming lion's share of it.  At this point, adding more ECNL teams in NTX would be diluting talent.  Here's the link to the LHGCL college signings list for 2015... http://www.girlsclassicleague.org/signees

Some really good academic institutions on that list, but not many D1 schools, and I believe only TWO players going to a power 5 conference school.  Clearly, the bulk of the D1 talent in NTX is already in ECNL.

As for NPL, I'm not sure what the strategy/purpose for NPL is.  Is it intended to be/become a feeder system for ECNL, or is it intended to serve as a "2nd Tier" to ECNL, providing a similar service for clubs/players/colleges at the more regional D1/D2/D3 level?  If that is the market that NPL is attempting to serve, then there's potential in that area, but I don't see NPL set up as a "stepping stone" to get entrance to ECNL.

...and I never said that college programs believe that all top players are found in ECNL, but the "top programs" generally aren't out scouting at the local level, or even much at the regional level (if you believe most of what has been written on this forum over the past 5 years), they are scouting on the NATIONAL level - i.e.  ECNL showcase events, USYSA National League, and major National Showcase tournaments.  However, unless you are Kicks SC '01, or the Pulp teams before they went to Solar, the only NTX teams that are getting this kind of national exposure on a regular basis are the ECNL teams.

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Post by soccerjack 19/05/15, 03:32 pm

JH01 wrote:There will always be coaching changes. which is good for the players and the team after a few years.

The questions for FCD girls program is there needs to be a person in charge of the Girls Academy Division. Chris Clarke is not the answer and it probabaly is not his real job. His real job is to bring in teams, coaches, numbers,lots of numbers of players and run camps and bring in a certain amount of money. The issue here is no one on the girls side is in charge. The boys Academy side(youngers) seems to have a leader and top coaches in charge working together to forms teams as a team of coaches. The girls side is everyone for himself or herself and steal backstab do whatever I can for me and my team. They do not have a leader and a team of coaches. The teams that have done well for FCD in the past had a leader who was in charge but it was a means to an end... to have the best teams and coach ECNL. Matt Grubb has done it. And before that there was a struggle and the next best coach Pulp left for money with Liverpool, then left for ECNL spots with Solar. It will always change for the girls with FCD until there is a team of coaches working together for the Academy youth side of things and that is their role...not to move up and coach the ECNL. Just one person's opinion.  

Well said for anyone that has experienced and been amazed by the silliness of the girls side over there. Sad thing is it's the kids that lose, because it's more about forming a dues paying team, than teaching soccer and moving kids where they belong ability wise. My bet is it's at a fever pitch right now of who can steal who from any team internally, that might implode and get the payday next season. Great business model. Like watching an episode of survivor.
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Post by Guest 19/05/15, 10:46 pm

bwgophers wrote:

I'm not talking about ECNL on a National Level.  On a National Level, there may still be room for ECNL to grow significantly. I'm talking about on a regional level, and specifically as it applies to NTX.  The pool of D1 caliber players is only so large in NTX, and ECNL has managed to grab the overwhelming lion's share of it.  At this point, adding more ECNL teams in NTX would be diluting talent.  Here's the link to the LHGCL college signings list for 2015... http://www.girlsclassicleague.org/signees

Some really good academic institutions on that list, but not many D1 schools, and I believe only TWO players going to a power 5 conference school.  Clearly, the bulk of the D1 talent in NTX is already in ECNL.

Can't really argue with any of that. However majority of programs recruit in their own region and VAST MAJORITY of players attend a school in their own region. The VERY TOP programs recruit anywhere talent is found. Local, regional, national, international....top level schools aren't limiting themselves to ONLY large showcase events. Before ECNL, vast majority of NTX girls that wanted to play in college migrated to Sting and Texans and Feet. They were perceived as having the college coach relationships, and perception was you had to be on a good enough team to win stuff and be accepted into important showcases. Solar and FCD developed talent at young ages, but were usually poached by u16...(other than solar '94s that won a National championship). With ECNL coming along and 5 NTX teams getting access to 3 or 4 of the biggest showcases (the ECNL national events), it's much easier to get exposure (it's now guaranteed). End result is the NTX talent pool is no longer concentrated into a few teams as in years past, it's diluted across 5 teams....and NTX hasn't had nearly the amount of success nationally in the ECNL era (other than the 2 teams that were already juggernauts before ECNL).

Coaches know all this, so the perception has been that there isn't much left beyond the 5 NTX ECNL teams. This may have been true in some age groups, but it doesn't HAVE to be true for all of them.  Let's say a Liverpool or an Andromeda puts together 3 or 4 solid age groups in a row...multiple girls in the national pool across those ages, multiple teams with exposure on the national level. If they got to a point where they were putting girls into strong college programs, and didn't actually NEED ECNL, us club WOULD add them, even in NTX with its 5 teams and diluted talent pool.

Tophat is a great example. NONE of the 3 current GA clubs wanted tophat to be added, and not many think the Atlanta market can support 4 top quality ECNL teams. But Tophat was too good to leave out. NOT having them was hurting the ECNL brand in the southeast because Tophat consistently turns out stellar players and puts them in good schools.  You actually had GA ECNL players migrating to play with tophat instead of ECNL getting the best tophat players to discovery play. Since ECNL now added tophat, they can immediately change the marketing material and increase the count of national team players built by ECNL. LOL.

I think there just aren't any other NTX clubs with a legit argument for inclusion, and they'd have to be good enough to get past Medina's influence to get in. All the outsider NTX clubs act as if they NEED ecnl...which means us club doesn't NEED to add them...they know they'll poach their players eventually anyway.

bwgophers wrote:
As for NPL, I'm not sure what the strategy/purpose for NPL is.  Is it intended to be/become a feeder system for ECNL, or is it intended to serve as a "2nd Tier" to ECNL, providing a similar service for clubs/players/colleges at the more regional D1/D2/D3 level?  If that is the market that NPL is attempting to serve, then there's potential in that area, but I don't see NPL set up as a "stepping stone" to get entrance to ECNL.

An earlier poster said he was surprised ECNL didn't create a second league, invite more teams and do promotion/relegation. Clearly the promotion/relegation thing is against the business model and would never happen...but us club has created these second leagues in many regions already, and will likely keep adding more. They're not branding these leagues as ECNL, but it's close, and they're using all the same hooks and marketing angles...verbatim. They have their own ID programs and the whole 9. In socal they call it Elite Girls Soccer League...a league for the B teams of the ECNL clubs. In other regions it's the various flavors of NPL leagues. I hear STX is also pulling out of USYS and starting up a new us club league.

IMO the strategy is to wrestle from USYS - EVERY single soccer wallet willing to pay thousands of dollars per year for their kid's soccer experience. Not just the "elite" players, but ALL of them willing to pay. That means you need a hierarchy of leagues, and you need a big marketing budget. It appears us club has both.

And I don't know if NPL is necessarily a stepping stone to ECNL, but there have been cases where a group affiliates with us club / NPL and was later granted entry into ECNL (i.e. east meadows).  It looks to me even the USYS only teams are busy behind the scenes trying to figure out how to get in bed with us club.

As for exposure, ANY team can get the exposure kicks SC has done. Even if you don't play your way into national league, there's Jefferson, Presidents, Houston Shootout, Vegas Players, Disney, Surf, Surf Thanksiving, PDA, WAGS, etc.  The issue is most teams in NTX don't want to go through all that when it's much easier and cheaper to just send their kid to one of the 5 ECNL teams. In all honestly, I don't blame them. But I would be surprised if there ISN'T a new us club league in NTX in the near future. I don't think any amount of catering to the big clubs is going to stop them from creating a competitor to LH / USYS.

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Post by TatonkaBurger 20/05/15, 08:26 am

4-3-3 wrote:
As for exposure, ANY team can get the exposure kicks SC has done. Even if you don't play your way into national league, there's Jefferson, Presidents, Houston Shootout, Vegas Players, Disney, Surf, Surf Thanksiving, PDA, WAGS, etc.  The issue is most teams in NTX don't want to go through all that when it's much easier and cheaper to just send their kid to one of the 5 ECNL teams. In all honestly, I don't blame them. But I would be surprised if there ISN'T a new us club league in NTX in the near future. I don't think any amount of catering to the big clubs is going to stop them from creating a competitor to LH / USYS.

Very interesting take.  It's hard to argue with it.
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Post by WisdomTeeth 23/05/15, 11:32 pm

Agreed. But some clubs can open more doors than others.
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Post by saintsinfo 23/06/15, 08:28 am

FCD: We spent the winter practicing with 6, 8 or more teams on a field (when we even had practice) - is that normal for other teams? How can that be good for development? Why do I feel like no one seems to care?"
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Post by soccerjack 23/06/15, 09:14 am

monkey
saintsinfo wrote:FCD: We spent the winter practicing with 6, 8 or more teams on a field (when we even had practice) - is that normal for other teams? How can that be good for development? Why do I feel like no one seems to care?"
------
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www.saints-soccer.org
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You're so naive...you were getting pool training free of charge.
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Post by TatonkaBurger 24/06/15, 10:42 am

Any other 05 news? Any blow ups yet?
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Post by Looking04 24/06/15, 10:55 am

saintsinfo wrote:FCD: We spent the winter practicing with 6, 8 or more teams on a field (when we even had practice) - is that normal for other teams? How can that be good for development? Why do I feel like no one seems to care?"
------
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Because they don't?

Complaints fall on deaf ears.  They will continue to sell their beautiful fields (grass closed again for "maintenance") to the uninformed, and continue to pack 6-8 or even more teams on a field.

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Post by Heart and dedication 24/06/15, 11:09 am

Tatonka burger, I believe Texans Molano is no more. I've heard they have numerous players all over the metroplex trying to find a new home.

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Post by TatonkaBurger 24/06/15, 11:50 am

Heart and dedication wrote:Tatonka burger, I believe Texans Molano is no more. I've heard they have numerous players all over the metroplex trying to find a new home.

Thanks H&D.  I heard that was a possibility so I guess it is a confirmed blow up.  

The only other change I can see is Solar Pulp is now Solar Chelsea Red Exclamation
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FC Dallas Coaching Changes - Page 2 Empty Re: FC Dallas Coaching Changes

Post by Looking04 24/06/15, 11:56 am

I believe Pat Shepard left FC Dallas for Sting

Looking04
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FC Dallas Coaching Changes - Page 2 Empty Re: FC Dallas Coaching Changes

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