ECNL swings back at DA

BigErn wrote:For what it's worth to this discussion, both FCD and Solar will have both Girl's DA and ECNL next year --

This came from Director level personnel at both Clubs.

you a gambling man??????????????????????????????????????????

BigErn wrote:For what it's worth to this discussion, both FCD and Solar will have both Girl's DA and ECNL next year --

This came from Director level personnel at both Clubs.

This week?  I only ask because lots of clubs thought they were going to have both until recently, as in this week.

Reconfirmed today. And I'd bet that all of the Big 4 in NTX have both come next year.

jogobonito06 wrote:
It's not an either/or proposition. ECNL is demanding some quality baselines be maintained if a club wants to do both. A majority of clubs are unable/unwilling to comply. There will be a huge shake up. Soon.


My 2 cents...
jogobonito06 gets it.

Not all the clubs in TX that are in ECNL AND part of the DA discussion have enough higher level players to field both. A few of the clubs can produce an ECNL team AND a DA training model with a realistic expectation of solid performances (Solar, FCD, and maybe Sting, just based on the number of players in that geographic area and the number of "A" and "B' level coaches on staff). The remaining clubs, should this rumor have any merit, would be wise to focus on ECNL. Let's not forget the purpose of each and maybe stop looking at the acronym. These are 2 totally different animals. ECNL, while a number of players in the National Pool have played ECNL (because it is where the highest level of play has been for the last 9 years), it is NOT intended as a program for Nat'l player identification and training for those players. It's focus in on SHOWCASING players to the multitude of colleges looking, and it's a business designed to make money. The DA is a completely different entity with a completely different goal. The sole purpose of the DA is what the name suggest...development...for the highest level players in specific areas that have enough players that have the potential for national level play. Let's not forget selection criteria for clubs that made the cut: number of players already in national system, number of "A" licensed coaches, market with player depth, etc. Also, look at the numbers: For ECNL, with U14-U18, assuming the minimum of 18 players per team to max of 30, that's 90-150 players per club. The DA will consist of 3 teams of combined age groups AND a club must be ABLE to field ALL 3 AGE GROUPS to participate in DA, with 23 per team for a total of about 69 players. Only a few clubs have the player pool to be able to establish DA teams and training programs and still remain competitive in the ECNL.

BigErn wrote:Reconfirmed today.  And I'd bet that all of the Big 4 in NTX have both come next year.

I believe 3 of the 4, but I haven't confirmed anything.

Same as boys side: FCD, Solar, and Texans.

tpitty wrote:

BigErn wrote:Reconfirmed today.  And I'd bet that all of the Big 4 in NTX have both come next year.

I believe 3 of the 4, but I haven't confirmed anything.

Same as boys side: FCD, Solar, and Texans.

What kind of roster movement will be allowed with DA? Can a DA club freely move players on and off their DA roster switching with ECNL rosters? If so, is a club that passes on DA (thus exclusively ECNL) losing the recruitment race as the DA clubs will now dangle the carrot of having an opportunity to play with the DA team?

ForReal wrote:
What kind of roster movement will be allowed with DA?  Can a DA club freely move players on and off their DA roster switching with ECNL rosters?  If so, is a club that passes on DA (thus exclusively ECNL) losing the recruitment race as the DA clubs will now dangle the carrot of having an opportunity to play with the DA team?

So DA players are restricted by the DA guidelines from participating with or on other teams/leagues. That is why on the High School announcement, it was said that the girls could take off DA for the high school season, and then return. (which is unlikely)

The stress 4 sessions plus a match a week put on kids bodies is substantial, and they try and limit that by restricting additional sports, training, etc.

That being said, DA can assign the DP (developmental player) tag to a player which limits their games to six for the Academy league, but allows them to train full time and play for a different team.

Will ECNL specific clubs lose the recruiting race? not initially but eventually. DA has US soccer behind it, and once the programs kicks off and is established, I can foresee USSoccer slimming down its national team selections to DA only programs. College coaches will begin leaning towards the kids training under a certified programming 4 times a week. Only makes sense.

I don't think that is surprising at all, and expect a local club or two not to participate in DA either.

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/growing-list-of-youth-clubs-reconsider-decline-girls-da-membership/
The official unveiling of U.S. Soccer’s new Girls Development Academy league earlier this year was widely seen as a paradigm-shifting arrival on the elite youth soccer landscape, and still may prove to be when it debuts next fall.

Yet a small, but growing number of noteworthy youth clubs accepted into the Girls DA have already reconsidered their participation, at least for the time being.

Some clubs are reconsidering the cost required to meet the standards and mandates for inclusion. In Houston, both Albion and Challenge nixed their joint DA partnership and made an agreement with ECNL that they would remain ECNL-only as long as ECNL would reject any new applicants from the area. There's simply more profit in ECNL than there is in the DA - more players who can play and pay along with less required investment in coaches/fields/standards.

I think the bet on ECNL is a shortsighted one that TSC, Challenge, and Albion will ultimately lose.

timmyh wrote:

I think the bet on ECNL is a shortsighted one that TSC, Challenge, and Albion will ultimately lose.

Lose may be in the eye of the beholder. There will always be quality players that won't want the DA structure and limitations that come with. IMHO, ECNL will continue and produce a good product, just maybe not quite at the level before DA, as some(not all) quality players will fill the DA rosters.

Interesting quote from TSC that I think will be spot on for all but a small handful of clubs with incredibly deep player pools:

“After thorough consideration of our current structure, market and future plans, at length, we feel that it would be very difficult for our club, or any club for that matter, to have the resources to compete in both leagues at the highest level,” stated TSC’s directors in the announcement.

“In addition there would be a continual internal conflict within the club about where players should be playing and who should be coaching. At some point one league would ultimately become secondary within the club and we feel this isn’t fair to either league, our players or our coaching staff.”

I can't see how 90%+ of clubs can do both leagues very well. It seems that when this all shakes out in a year or two, clubs will be in one league or another with the DA at the very top of the pyramid for the extremely dedicated player with ambition to play at the next level (YNT/Pro/elite D1), and ECNL a viable, national, 2nd tier league(even tier 1 in certain pockets of the country).

NoSpinZone wrote:

timmyh wrote:

I think the bet on ECNL is a shortsighted one that TSC, Challenge, and Albion will ultimately lose.

Lose may be in the eye of the beholder.  There will always be quality players that won't want the DA structure and limitations that come with.  IMHO, ECNL will continue and produce a good product, just maybe not quite at the level before DA, as some(not all) quality players will fill the DA rosters.

Agree, plenty of very quality players on non DA rosters. Giving up school sports for stud athletes is extremely hard to do.

I hope FCD scholarships some out of town players, like they do for boys.

Sho'Nuff wrote:I hope FCD scholarships some out of town players, like they do for boys.

FCD scholarships everyone on boys DA. It is free. Dallas Texans only charge travel fees.

I hope that all remains constant.

I've been told Girls DA players will still participate in High School Soccer. It wont be fully funded by the clubs.

Guess Who wrote:I've been told Girls DA players  will still participate in High School Soccer. It wont be fully funded by the clubs.

DA players will not be able to play both DA and HS at the same time.  If they choose to play HS, they will take a leave from their DA team.  In TX for public schools that would be from December 1st to possibly April 15th for the state tournament.  How many DA players that actually decide to leave their DA squad for 4+ months remains to be seen.  The DA schedule will not stop for HS play.  The DA coach will need a roster of available players for matches and tournaments during HS season.  Expect pressure to NOT play HS.  HS is planned to be phased out (per US Soccer) once next years freshmen (2017/2018) become seniors in 2020/21.

tpitty wrote:

FCD scholarships everyone on boys DA. It is free. Dallas Texans only charge travel fees.

I hope that all remains constant.

Not in favor of FCD, but this full scholarship alone will make FCD the top club in NTX.

timmyh wrote:Interesting quote from TSC that I think will be spot on for all but a small handful of clubs with incredibly deep player pools:

“After thorough consideration of our current structure, market and future plans, at length, we feel that it would be very difficult for our club, or any club for that matter, to have the resources to compete in both leagues at the highest level,” stated TSC’s directors in the announcement.

“In addition there would be a continual internal conflict within the club about where players should be playing and who should be coaching. At some point one league would ultimately become secondary within the club and we feel this isn’t fair to either league, our players or our coaching staff.”

I can't see how 90%+ of clubs can do both leagues very well.  It seems that when this all shakes out in a year or two, clubs will be in one league or another with the DA at the very top of the pyramid for the extremely dedicated player with ambition to play at the next level (YNT/Pro/elite D1), and ECNL a viable, national, 2nd tier league(even tier 1 in certain pockets of the country).

Couldn't agree more timmyh ...

Although, the big 4 here in NTX on top of the food chain have a lot of potential food to load both DA and ECNL programs. A couple of years ago, there were 50+ registered clubs with NTX Soccer -- Those numbers are dwindling quickly, mostly due to these new vehicles (DA, ECNL expansion, JDL), and will continue to do so as the big 4 draw the top talent (players and coaches). In the coming couple of years, I expect they will be eating up some of the mid sized Clubs as well ... Kicks, LP, D'Feeters, etc.

Guess Who wrote:I've been told Girls DA players  will still participate in High School Soccer. It wont be fully funded by the clubs.

That stinks if it won't be fully funded. I was hoping it would mirror the boys side.

I see DA struggling to have a positive affect on women's soccer as a whole. At least in its preliminary form and rules. Are you going to tell a state champion caliber track runner, she cannot run track? Tell her to make her pick, and you might lose her. She is getting a full ride to college either way. Don't you wish more of our countries top stud boy athletes played soccer? Well they don't. Our girls do, hence our success. Of course the "spots" will be filled with girls that are willing to do it, and parents that would love to have those perceived bragging rights, but I would bet some, maybe majority will be ones that could have zero impact on the national level. One big problem with soccer not being addressed, is the lack of coaches in this country. Coaches that truly know how to develop.  And this new venture, just exacerbates that in my opinion. One problem with it is, they tied it to to clubs, which seek a profit.

BigErn wrote:

timmyh wrote:Interesting quote from TSC that I think will be spot on for all but a small handful of clubs with incredibly deep player pools:

“After thorough consideration of our current structure, market and future plans, at length, we feel that it would be very difficult for our club, or any club for that matter, to have the resources to compete in both leagues at the highest level,” stated TSC’s directors in the announcement.

“In addition there would be a continual internal conflict within the club about where players should be playing and who should be coaching. At some point one league would ultimately become secondary within the club and we feel this isn’t fair to either league, our players or our coaching staff.”

I can't see how 90%+ of clubs can do both leagues very well.  It seems that when this all shakes out in a year or two, clubs will be in one league or another with the DA at the very top of the pyramid for the extremely dedicated player with ambition to play at the next level (YNT/Pro/elite D1), and ECNL a viable, national, 2nd tier league(even tier 1 in certain pockets of the country).

Couldn't agree more timmyh ...

Although, the big 4 here in NTX on top of the food chain have a lot of potential food to load both DA and ECNL programs.  A couple of years ago, there were 50+ registered clubs with NTX Soccer -- Those numbers are dwindling quickly, mostly due to these new vehicles (DA, ECNL expansion, JDL), and will continue to do so as the big 4 draw the top talent (players and coaches).  In the coming couple of years, I expect they will be eating up some of the mid sized Clubs as well ... Kicks, LP, D'Feeters, etc.

My question is why allow the leagues to dictate how players are developed? Look at the quote, "wouldn't be fair to either league..." Who cares? The leagues should be set up as a vehicle for competition, nothing more.

BigErn wrote:

timmyh wrote:Interesting quote from TSC that I think will be spot on for all but a small handful of clubs with incredibly deep player pools:

“After thorough consideration of our current structure, market and future plans, at length, we feel that it would be very difficult for our club, or any club for that matter, to have the resources to compete in both leagues at the highest level,” stated TSC’s directors in the announcement.

“In addition there would be a continual internal conflict within the club about where players should be playing and who should be coaching. At some point one league would ultimately become secondary within the club and we feel this isn’t fair to either league, our players or our coaching staff.”

I can't see how 90%+ of clubs can do both leagues very well.  It seems that when this all shakes out in a year or two, clubs will be in one league or another with the DA at the very top of the pyramid for the extremely dedicated player with ambition to play at the next level (YNT/Pro/elite D1), and ECNL a viable, national, 2nd tier league(even tier 1 in certain pockets of the country).

Couldn't agree more timmyh ...

Although, the big 4 here in NTX on top of the food chain have a lot of potential food to load both DA and ECNL programs.  A couple of years ago, there were 50+ registered clubs with NTX Soccer -- Those numbers are dwindling quickly, mostly due to these new vehicles (DA, ECNL expansion, JDL), and will continue to do so as the big 4 draw the top talent (players and coaches).  In the coming couple of years, I expect they will be eating up some of the mid sized Clubs as well ... Kicks, LP, D'Feeters, etc.

Indeed. And probably so does Lonestar. I still think it might make sense for one of the big 4 (almost has to be Sting, right?) to drop DA and focus entirely on ECNL. Would they attract the bulk of the elite talent that isn't willing to make the DA commitment, or would those players be fine playing on the DT/FCD/Solar 2nd teams? Is there a play to be made like the Challenge and Albion did (we'll drop out, but we get a say in local membership)?

Given the resource requirements of the DA, can Sting remain competitive with DT/FCD/Solar in the long term? There certainly appears to be more money in ECNL than there is in the DA (more players + less requirements and oversight).

Does a girls TEPAL form up, or is that basically what teams will use their ECNL teams for?

Lots of questions that may take a couple years to sort out.

timmyh wrote:

Indeed.  And probably so does Lonestar.  I still think it might make sense for one of the big 4 (almost has to be Sting, right?) to drop DA and focus entirely on ECNL.  Would they attract the bulk of the elite talent that isn't willing to make the DA commitment, or would those players be fine playing on the DT/FCD/Solar 2nd teams?  Is there a play to be made like the Challenge and Albion did (we'll drop out, but we get a say in local membership)?  

Sting has a strong tradition and recently was top girls club in the country.  They have strong teams, why is it a few on here think they will be the ones to drop out?

Sting placing through fall in ECNL from u14-u18 is: 1,4,2,4,5
Texans placing: 3,7,6,9,9

I realize Texans are connected w US Soccer, but do they really care about the girls side?  I really probably know very little, but I would guess Texans would drop DA.  Make fun as you wish.

fireman1594 wrote:I see DA struggling to have a positive affect on women's soccer as a whole. At least in its preliminary form and rules. Are you going to tell a state champion caliber track runner, she cannot run track? Tell her to make her pick, and you might lose her. She is getting a full ride to college either way. Don't you wish more of our countries top stud boy athletes played soccer? Well they don't. Our girls do, hence our success. Of course the "spots" will be filled with girls that are willing to do it, and parents that would love to have those perceived bragging rights, but I would bet some, maybe majority will be ones that could have zero impact on the national level. One big problem with soccer not being addressed, is the lack of coaches in this country. Coaches that truly know how to develop.  And this new venture, just exacerbates that in my opinion. One problem with it is, they tied it to to clubs, which seek a profit.

If US Soccer requires dedicated A licensed staff for a club's DA team, who pays for that?  If players want DA training and travel to be free, who pays for that?  They would only award DA membership to financially stable clubs.  US Soccer is only paying for league administration and hosting tournaments.  Parents of other teams pay for everything else?

NoSpinZone wrote:

timmyh wrote:

Indeed.  And probably so does Lonestar.  I still think it might make sense for one of the big 4 (almost has to be Sting, right?) to drop DA and focus entirely on ECNL.  Would they attract the bulk of the elite talent that isn't willing to make the DA commitment, or would those players be fine playing on the DT/FCD/Solar 2nd teams?  Is there a play to be made like the Challenge and Albion did (we'll drop out, but we get a say in local membership)?  

Sting has a strong tradition and recently was top girls club in the country.  They have strong teams, why is it a few on here think they will be the ones to drop out?

Sting placing through fall in ECNL from u14-u18 is: 1,4,2,4,5
Texans placing: 3,7,6,9,9

I realize Texans are connected w US Soccer, but do they really care about the girls side?  I really probably know very little, but I would guess Texans would drop DA.  Make fun as you wish.

From my perspective, I don't think anyone will drop out (and to be clear, nor have I heard anything that Sting is even considering it - indeed they are one of the very best girl clubs in the country). I'm just wildly speculating that it might be in somebody's best interest to zig rather than zag and that, to me, Sting might have the most to gain long term by doing so.