Re: Team Bye vs Club Bye

by thunderlipz 19/07/18, 11:32 pm

Zizou wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:Same ol Same ol BS, nobody gets anywhere in NTX or nationally for that matter, especially when you propose an alternative to the absolutely hideous system we employ to develop our youth athletes. All on this forum that are part of the problem will be quick to shoot holes in any idea you come up with because it doesn’t suite there elitest attitudes and egos, “system worked for my kid” because I played the games and politics and was willing to drop $10k(some pay more)a year on soccer. Funny thing is, if you saved that $$$ your kid could have a free ride on your dime, a very minuscule % of kids get full rides to college for soccer anyways, a small handful of colleges actually throw any money of significance at girls soccer. All these so called scholarships that ECNL runs around and brags about the girls getting are 1/4 and 1/2 rides, don’t even cover room and board, parents continue to pay a fortune for college.

I have an idea, instead of shooting holes in ideas, let’s brainstorm together and figure out a system that works and helps identify talent. After all, the more talent that chooses soccer, the more exciting it becomes and the more popular it will be. As the sport grows colleges will have to throw more dollars at it. The number one focuse should be identification of talent, then developing it and projecting into the future, pay to play system drives talent away to basketball, baseball, football and volleyball(girls) etc..... AAU isn’t worried about making money off parents, they have sponsors for that. Stop hating and be apart of the solution!

Oh and by the way, youth soccer in Italy and the Netherlands isn’t on a pay to play system like we are. They take kids at a very young age and pay there way, the less fortunate in most cases always get seen and developed. They missed the World Cup because the competition in UEFA is that stout, not because they aren’t developing talent.

Your talking about a culture change where people spend money filling up soccer stadiums, buying soccer jerseys, and filling the club full of money. Soccer in the states cannot pull the revenue to compete against basketball, football, nor baseball. So just like any business model the focus their revenue on the ones that will pay. Parents! i will leave the crusade to fix youth soccer with experts like yourself and meth head.

Tell me something I don’t know sir. The questions is why can’t we create that culture? Why are the best athletes choosing Football, Baseball, or Basketball? Answer: because most of the best athletes don’t come from high income families and these sports provide an unbiased opportunity to improve their lives and their families lives forever. Soccer can provide this same avenue, there is a reason it’s the most popular sport worldwide by a mile. Instead soccer is stuck in a downward spiral in this country and if drastic changes to the pay to play system aren’t made, youth soccer will be a shell of itself in less than 5-6 years. Then again your kids won’t be in it so what do you care, right?

by tikitalker 20/07/18, 12:02 am

thunderlipz wrote:
Zizou wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:Same ol Same ol BS, nobody gets anywhere in NTX or nationally for that matter, especially when you propose an alternative to the absolutely hideous system we employ to develop our youth athletes. All on this forum that are part of the problem will be quick to shoot holes in any idea you come up with because it doesn’t suite there elitest attitudes and egos, “system worked for my kid” because I played the games and politics and was willing to drop $10k(some pay more)a year on soccer. Funny thing is, if you saved that $$$ your kid could have a free ride on your dime, a very minuscule % of kids get full rides to college for soccer anyways, a small handful of colleges actually throw any money of significance at girls soccer. All these so called scholarships that ECNL runs around and brags about the girls getting are 1/4 and 1/2 rides, don’t even cover room and board, parents continue to pay a fortune for college.

I have an idea, instead of shooting holes in ideas, let’s brainstorm together and figure out a system that works and helps identify talent. After all, the more talent that chooses soccer, the more exciting it becomes and the more popular it will be. As the sport grows colleges will have to throw more dollars at it. The number one focuse should be identification of talent, then developing it and projecting into the future, pay to play system drives talent away to basketball, baseball, football and volleyball(girls) etc..... AAU isn’t worried about making money off parents, they have sponsors for that. Stop hating and be apart of the solution!

Oh and by the way, youth soccer in Italy and the Netherlands isn’t on a pay to play system like we are. They take kids at a very young age and pay there way, the less fortunate in most cases always get seen and developed. They missed the World Cup because the competition in UEFA is that stout, not because they aren’t developing talent.

Your talking about a culture change where people spend money filling up soccer stadiums, buying soccer jerseys, and filling the club full of money. Soccer in the states cannot pull the revenue to compete against basketball, football, nor baseball. So just like any business model the focus their revenue on the ones that will pay. Parents! i will leave the crusade to fix youth soccer with experts like yourself and meth head.
Tell me something I don’t know sir. The questions is why can’t we create that culture? Why are the best athletes choosing Football, Baseball, or Basketball? Answer: because most of the best athletes don’t come from high income families and these sports provide an unbiased opportunity to improve their lives and their families lives forever. Soccer can provide this same avenue, there is a reason it’s the most popular sport worldwide by a mile. Instead soccer is stuck in a downward spiral in this country and if drastic changes to the pay to play system aren’t made, youth soccer will be a shell of itself in less than 5-6 years. Then again your kids won’t be in it so what do you care, right?

Fearmongering at its finest. I'd give the t-shirt off my back for us soccer to be even a smidgeon of what it is in belgium or france. the fact is that no matter how hard we try, we can't touch those youth systems until we change some things around. if you're kids dont love the game, they aren't going to play it. We need speedsters, but the speedsters are migrating to football, baseball, basketball, etc... the question is; how do we corral those kids into soccer away from the other sports? It starts with the preschools IMHO.

by BENDMEOVER 20/07/18, 05:04 am

No more pops coaching games now it's a greasy club coach wanting a paycheck they dont care of oh Billy boy. We used to go to the local dairy queen after a big game those days are gone now is gold dangling chains and wheres mynpaycheck. Theres no more love.

Take the club out and let the schools handle things problem solved.

by BENDMEOVER 20/07/18, 05:27 am

I dont see anymore smiles on parents or kids. All I see is hatred and anger. The clubs have killed the love of the game. The fun is no more. They came in and thats when it died.

by thunderlipz 20/07/18, 11:35 am

tikitalker wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:
Zizou wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:Same ol Same ol BS, nobody gets anywhere in NTX or nationally for that matter, especially when you propose an alternative to the absolutely hideous system we employ to develop our youth athletes. All on this forum that are part of the problem will be quick to shoot holes in any idea you come up with because it doesn’t suite there elitest attitudes and egos, “system worked for my kid” because I played the games and politics and was willing to drop $10k(some pay more)a year on soccer. Funny thing is, if you saved that $$$ your kid could have a free ride on your dime, a very minuscule % of kids get full rides to college for soccer anyways, a small handful of colleges actually throw any money of significance at girls soccer. All these so called scholarships that ECNL runs around and brags about the girls getting are 1/4 and 1/2 rides, don’t even cover room and board, parents continue to pay a fortune for college.

I have an idea, instead of shooting holes in ideas, let’s brainstorm together and figure out a system that works and helps identify talent. After all, the more talent that chooses soccer, the more exciting it becomes and the more popular it will be. As the sport grows colleges will have to throw more dollars at it. The number one focuse should be identification of talent, then developing it and projecting into the future, pay to play system drives talent away to basketball, baseball, football and volleyball(girls) etc..... AAU isn’t worried about making money off parents, they have sponsors for that. Stop hating and be apart of the solution!

Oh and by the way, youth soccer in Italy and the Netherlands isn’t on a pay to play system like we are. They take kids at a very young age and pay there way, the less fortunate in most cases always get seen and developed. They missed the World Cup because the competition in UEFA is that stout, not because they aren’t developing talent.

Your talking about a culture change where people spend money filling up soccer stadiums, buying soccer jerseys, and filling the club full of money. Soccer in the states cannot pull the revenue to compete against basketball, football, nor baseball. So just like any business model the focus their revenue on the ones that will pay. Parents! i will leave the crusade to fix youth soccer with experts like yourself and meth head.
Tell me something I don’t know sir. The questions is why can’t we create that culture? Why are the best athletes choosing Football, Baseball, or Basketball? Answer: because most of the best athletes don’t come from high income families and these sports provide an unbiased opportunity to improve their lives and their families lives forever. Soccer can provide this same avenue, there is a reason it’s the most popular sport worldwide by a mile. Instead soccer is stuck in a downward spiral in this country and if drastic changes to the pay to play system aren’t made, youth soccer will be a shell of itself in less than 5-6 years. Then again your kids won’t be in it so what do you care, right?
Fearmongering at its finest. I'd give the t-shirt off my back for us soccer to be even a smidgeon of what it is in belgium or france. the fact is that no matter how hard we try, we can't touch those youth systems until we change some things around. if you're kids dont love the game, they aren't going to play it. We need speedsters, but the speedsters are migrating to football, baseball, basketball, etc... the question is; how do we corral those kids into soccer away from the other sports? It starts with the preschools IMHO.

Your exaggerating with the Fear monger accusation, these are facts, USYSA reported a 14% decline in youth soccer players age 6-12 years over the last 3 years. That is an astonishing number, all the giant clubs should be ashamed of. The youth of this country has a voice and it’s saying “I don’t choose soccer”. This has to change or over the next 4-6 years there will be less than 1 million kids playing youth soccer. Most have their eyes closed and are so narrow, that all they care about is the here and now. I’m not here with the magic fix a flat and to solve all these problems, but there needs to be awareness and support for the independent clubs of the world. These folks are providing a much cheaper avenue to play competitive soccer in this country and in a lot of cases a better coach and program. 4-5 years ago NTX was a thriving soccer community in large part to all the options that were available, yet somehow over the last several years the 5 bigs have either absorbed or purchased almost all of the small independent organizations(eliminated the competition). Now options are much more limited and they have gained far to much power. It’s about money and what the player can do for the bigs. Is that how it should be?

by Zizou 20/07/18, 11:52 am

Could it be that younger players are not choosing to go with USYSA and entering straight into the clubs for their training? This would mean that USYSA is seeing the drop in participation but not youth soccer.

by thunderlipz 20/07/18, 12:12 pm

Zizou wrote:Could it be that younger players are not choosing to go with USYSA and entering straight into the clubs for their training? This would mean that USYSA is seeing the drop in participation but not youth soccer.

All Players must be registered with USYSA or US Club, these numbers are reported by both, keep in mind these numbers don’t include all the players that have quit playing the game u13-u18. USSF tried to do something about it with adding the DA to the girls side, but they don’t get it. It’s not about adding additional platforms, it’s about the cost and politics involved. To fix the issues they have to figure out how to identify young talent, even at the rec level, then get it into a program that makes sense financially for parents. Most youths start playing soccer at u4-u5, when it’s organic and fun. Nobody is applying pressure and telling them they aren’t good enough. Then they go to the youth academy level and the parents go insane, the coaches are even crazier, and the clubs just sit back and collect money. The system is a joke because there is no system, no rules means chaos. Then all the sudden at u11 we decide it’s serious and these are all pro players and they don’t need to have fun anymore, as the years progress you get taught that if you ain’t first your last. What a shame!! Who wants to sign up for that? Then there is the escalation of the cost, goes from $200 per season at the Rec level to $10-$12k per season at the top level. Yeah let’s all go rush to be a part of that!!

It don’t work for nobody, except the big clubs collecting the cheese. I’d say save your money and worry about academics instead, the kids can walk on to play college soccer easier than going the club route, plus it’s cheaper.

by Zizou 20/07/18, 12:16 pm

Who is paying that kind of money at the top level. My DD has been at the top for 5 years now and we have never paid 10-12k. Last year we paid 4K. This year we are projecting the same.

Oh yeah and players and parents are rushing to be apart of that. Consumers have spoken. You have your opinions! Great! Then You Do You and allow others to spend or not spend their money as they please.

by thunderlipz 20/07/18, 12:25 pm

Zizou wrote:Who is paying that kind of money at the top level. My DD has been at the top for 5 years now and we have never paid 10-12k. Last year we paid 4K. This year we are projecting the same.

My DD plays ECNL and after travel expenses and club dues, tournaments/Showcases, training camp, ECNL Admin fees, coaches travel and perdium I personally spent just over $10k last year, I’m no rookie. I wouldn’t put it out there if it weren’t fact. Idk what club your kid plays for but it’s probably one of the ones with rich parents and kids roster because their Paying for top players expenses. That is assuming your kid is one of the top players. DD played for TP prior, so she has to be pretty good. Oh and weren’t you the one on here ranting before last season about how you spent $18k for TP’s team?

by Zizou 20/07/18, 12:26 pm

You got ripped off

by Zizou 20/07/18, 12:27 pm

by Zizou 20/07/18, 12:28 pm

Now your just spewing B.S

by Guest 20/07/18, 12:31 pm

Zizou wrote:Could it be that younger players are not choosing to go with USYSA and entering straight into the clubs for their training? This would mean that USYSA is seeing the drop in participation but not youth soccer.

Ol' Hulk Hogan misquoted the article (here - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/14/sports/world-cup/soccer-youth-decline.html). It wasn't USYSA stating that, and it was discussing overall participation, not participation under a specific organization.

"Over the past three years, the percentage of 6- to 12-year-olds playing soccer regularly has dropped nearly 14 percent, to 2.3 million players, according to a study by the Sports & Fitness Industry Association, which has analyzed youth athletic trends for 40 years. The number of children who touched a soccer ball even once during the year, in organized play or otherwise, also has fallen significantly."

I find it hard to draw a strong connection between pay-to-play and 6-12 year-olds not touching a soccer ball, or even not playing the game regularly. There's something else societally or culturally going on to drive that.

I will agree that pay-to-play has impacted elite player identification and development, and could even buy into a correlation between pay-to-play and a dropoff in participation at ages 12-18, but not a correlation at such young ages.

by Zizou 20/07/18, 12:38 pm

I feel sorry for those who have had such a horrible select soccer experience. Their is no dought that is can be a mental roller coaster with highs and lows. You win some you lose some and along the way you learn how to work the system to your advantage. Some learn faster than others. I wouldn’t trade the past years and experiences for the life of me.

by Zizou 20/07/18, 12:42 pm

Dude is grinding that keyboard at this time. Get ready for the novel that follows.

by TxFutbal 20/07/18, 12:43 pm

I call BS for anyone saying the are paying only 4k for Top ECNL team. Even the competitive teams in LH with at least a 5 tournament schedule with at least 1 out of town tournament that requires flights/hotels is over 4k. Every ECNL team I know has team fees as high or higher than club fees. If club fees are $3,500, plus another $500 for uniform, you are talking at least 8k to play.

The only way this happens is if your kid is on a free ride.. And as someone put it in another thread, clubs don't offer ECNL players scholarships...

Where is the TRUTH people? The parents need facts or we will continue to lose great kids

by Zizou 20/07/18, 12:46 pm

You have been ripped off. No way I payed 8k to the club to play ECNL.

by Guest 20/07/18, 01:01 pm

Zizou wrote:Now your just spewing B.S

Oh Ziz, now you are being a bit Trumpian here. Maybe you didn't say you paid $18k playing ECNL for TP, but you most certainly came on here complaining about the high cost of playing ECNL for that club/team (and more importantly, the TM for that team).

Lipz's $10k is very legit for an NTX ECNL team. $3k for standard club fees + $2k-$3k (again, depending on who the TM is Suspect

) to cover player hotel, player meals, and coach's expenses for travel to league matches + 3 showcases (Phoenix/Orlando/Houston) + National Playoffs. That's $5k-$6k minimum. That does NOT include player airfare to any of the showcases/playoffs, or any parent travel expenses (Hotels, Meals, Gas, Airfare, Rental Car) for league matches or showcases/playoffs. That can easily add up to additional $4k-$5k (or even more).

Now, FCD DA, with reduced fees, 6-8 hour round trip on a bus to play a 2 hr game without having to spend a night in a hotel, parents and/or player not traveling to DA showcases or playoffs, yes, you can get away with $4k.

By the way, also spoke to a long-time forum contributor a few weeks back who's kid is at Solar DA. His kid has played ECNL with one of the bigs, and also with Kicks. Said that this past year in DA was by far the most money he's ever spent on a year of soccer for his DD. The point being that DA is not a magic cure-all, and that people's experiences with cost vary widely.

by SickofStupidity 20/07/18, 01:05 pm

Zizou wrote:You have been ripped off. No way I payed 8k to the club to play ECNL.

Ohhh, nice, I see what you did there.

"to the club"

Tournament fees, coach per diem, hotel, air, food, indoor, and maybe even uniforms are not paid "to the club".

And yet still a cost to play ECNL

by thunderlipz 20/07/18, 01:27 pm

I am very well connected with USYSA and have spoke to them about the article in question and was told those numbers are correct and are growing from their prospective. Unfortunately they are at the mercy of USSF and only can make changes to the formats based on USSF recommendations.

As far as the cost at the Elite level, it’s 100% fact. No way Ziz Paid $4k for ECNL/DA, that’s total BS!!!

by thunderlipz 20/07/18, 01:34 pm

Zizou wrote:I feel sorry for those who have had such a horrible select soccer experience. Their is no dought that is can be a mental roller coaster with highs and lows. You win some you lose some and along the way you learn how to work the system to your advantage. Some learn faster than others. I wouldn’t trade the past years and experiences for the life of me.

Who said they had a horrible experience? Not all people that come on this forum are disgruntled, the matter at hand is the issue to preserve this game that we love and make sure it grows and our kids get seen and develop as they should. Under the current model too many are getting left behind. Just because yours or mine isn’t one that got left behind doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care.

by Foxysoccermom 20/07/18, 01:37 pm

Let's just say ziz knows how how to blow up and rub the ol soccer balls to get that discount. Foxy likes how he rolls.

by Defender_Dad 20/07/18, 02:48 pm

thunderlipz wrote:
Zizou wrote:
SoccerSuckers wrote:We need soccer in schools everywhere small.towns to large districts. This will.promote new talent to play the game that dont have leagues in their community or training options. This will halp.market the game and get local businesses and new excitement for the younger kids.

Most of this kids never touch a soccer ball.

Soccer is in the schools. Middle school teams and high school teams in most, I won’t say all districts.
The point is, the bigs are the ones that made it not relevant anymore, but then again you probably didn’t even know that. Your worried about UIL screwing things up, as if USSF, ECNL, LHGCL have done a good job. Trust me, they can’t do any worse, then again maybe it’s the fact that the politics and money don’t matter so much in school sports because they don’t need your money to make it happen? Maybe it’s the fact the parents don’t run the asylum in school sports?

Parents don't run the asylum in school sports!!! There's a LaVar Ball in everytown.

by Defender_Dad 20/07/18, 02:53 pm

tikitalker wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:
Zizou wrote:
thunderlipz wrote:Same ol Same ol BS, nobody gets anywhere in NTX or nationally for that matter, especially when you propose an alternative to the absolutely hideous system we employ to develop our youth athletes. All on this forum that are part of the problem will be quick to shoot holes in any idea you come up with because it doesn’t suite there elitest attitudes and egos, “system worked for my kid” because I played the games and politics and was willing to drop $10k(some pay more)a year on soccer. Funny thing is, if you saved that $$$ your kid could have a free ride on your dime, a very minuscule % of kids get full rides to college for soccer anyways, a small handful of colleges actually throw any money of significance at girls soccer. All these so called scholarships that ECNL runs around and brags about the girls getting are 1/4 and 1/2 rides, don’t even cover room and board, parents continue to pay a fortune for college.

I have an idea, instead of shooting holes in ideas, let’s brainstorm together and figure out a system that works and helps identify talent. After all, the more talent that chooses soccer, the more exciting it becomes and the more popular it will be. As the sport grows colleges will have to throw more dollars at it. The number one focuse should be identification of talent, then developing it and projecting into the future, pay to play system drives talent away to basketball, baseball, football and volleyball(girls) etc..... AAU isn’t worried about making money off parents, they have sponsors for that. Stop hating and be apart of the solution!

Oh and by the way, youth soccer in Italy and the Netherlands isn’t on a pay to play system like we are. They take kids at a very young age and pay there way, the less fortunate in most cases always get seen and developed. They missed the World Cup because the competition in UEFA is that stout, not because they aren’t developing talent.

Your talking about a culture change where people spend money filling up soccer stadiums, buying soccer jerseys, and filling the club full of money. Soccer in the states cannot pull the revenue to compete against basketball, football, nor baseball. So just like any business model the focus their revenue on the ones that will pay. Parents! i will leave the crusade to fix youth soccer with experts like yourself and meth head.
Tell me something I don’t know sir. The questions is why can’t we create that culture? Why are the best athletes choosing Football, Baseball, or Basketball? Answer: because most of the best athletes don’t come from high income families and these sports provide an unbiased opportunity to improve their lives and their families lives forever. Soccer can provide this same avenue, there is a reason it’s the most popular sport worldwide by a mile. Instead soccer is stuck in a downward spiral in this country and if drastic changes to the pay to play system aren’t made, youth soccer will be a shell of itself in less than 5-6 years. Then again your kids won’t be in it so what do you care, right?
Fearmongering at its finest. I'd give the t-shirt off my back for us soccer to be even a smidgeon of what it is in belgium or france. the fact is that no matter how hard we try, we can't touch those youth systems until we change some things around. if you're kids dont love the game, they aren't going to play it. We need speedsters, but the speedsters are migrating to football, baseball, basketball, etc... the question is; how do we corral those kids into soccer away from the other sports? It starts with the preschools IMHO.

Where are you finding 2yr old speedsters? Forget Ronaldo, that's the next Usain Bolt.

by TxFutbal 20/07/18, 03:21 pm

Mr. Rourk's sidekick knows.. He is about to kickoff the diaper league. There is 1 issue though.. There is a debate on which video the tots are gonna watch during half time nap and whether they are suppose to sleep on their back or whether they can sleep on their stomach. All the relatively new parents need to chime in here on what the latest craze is on sleep time videos and sleep position. In my day, mom dipped my pacifier in bourbon.. Worked every time.

by thunderlipz 20/07/18, 03:22 pm

Guess you two were on the same team. Why argue semantics to throw smoke screens? Funny how all this works. “I didn’t pay $10k, I only paid $4k” so what!!! You think the less fortunate have $4k? never mind the $10k. It’s the same ol song and dance on here. Let’s protect a horribly broken system because We’ve learned how to work the system to benefit our kids. Clearly you two didn’t pay club dues, great job fellas! Congrats!! Now go kiss the a## of the parents that paid your club dues.

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