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If not LHGCL, then ?

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If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by new2soccr on 20/07/16, 12:51 pm

Curious to get opinions - if your not LHGCL, which is the next best thing? Why? Is there a difference in leagues outside of LHGCL?


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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Guest on 20/07/16, 01:22 pm

new2soccr wrote:Curious to get opinions - if your not LHGCL, which is the next best thing? Why? Is there a difference in leagues outside of LHGCL?


Here's my 2cents on this. A bit about myself.

I coached select soccer in the Pacific NW. It's not North TX, but at least it's something.
I have a son who is in Developmental Academy right now. Pretty much the highest you can get for a 15yo boy...aside from the US team...hahaha
I have daughter who is U12 and played LHGCL for a year already.
I have a daughter who plays rec.

I kind of see this from many different sides -- as a parent and as a coach. Forget the leagues and how they stack up. Your child needs to play in the league and on the team that allows him/her to be happy, healthy and excited to play the game.

The definition of the above is different for each child. Some are driven and love the competition and challenge. Some just love kicking it around for a couple hours a week. The key is knowing your child. I can't stress the next statement enough. FOR GOD'S SAKE -- this needs to be about the child and not about you OR your plans for your child. It is not about the scholarship to college; it is not about being able to say whether your kid is on one team or another. IT IS ABOUT YOUR KID.

The rest doesn't matter. The beauty of NTX is that there are a TON of options -- for all levels of play and all levels of commitment. It just needs to fit.

All that being said ---- if you're exclusively talking about the female side --


1a) Elite clubs National League (ECNL) -- Currently the top level of national competition by most people's standards. Great for competition; bad for the pocketbook....
1b) US Developmental Academy (USDA) -- Not in existence yet. Starts play in 2017. Yet to be determined if this overtakes ECNL, replaces ECNL, or is a step below ECNL. Either way, it will likely be a more competitive and demanding league than LHGCL.
2) LHGCL -- Great league. Great competition. Local.
3) Plano -- Next level down. Still select teams so will still be heavy time commitment for practices and games.
4) Arlington -- Could argue is either on par or a bit lower than Plano.
5) Rec -- Strictly for fun.
6) Various indoor/futsal leagues -- Also for fun, though, many competitive players will do this in addition to their regular club schedule.

There are other hybrids like Composite and JDL and Champions league.... but the above are the major categories. Hope that answers your question!

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by PrimeTimeSoccer on 20/07/16, 01:37 pm

Don't forget about PrimeTime Clubs League.

Team list and league information at www.primetimesportz.com/soccer/leagues/ptcl
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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Guest on 20/07/16, 02:01 pm

PrimeTimeSoccer wrote:Don't forget about PrimeTime Clubs League.

cheers

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by SocDad on 20/07/16, 02:36 pm

skiberdad wrote:
PrimeTimeSoccer wrote:Don't forget about PrimeTime Clubs League.

cheers

Where would PTCL get ranked? Guessing between 4 & 5???
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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by nolanryan on 20/07/16, 02:41 pm

skiberdad wrote:
new2soccr wrote:Curious to get opinions - if your not LHGCL, which is the next best thing? Why? Is there a difference in leagues outside of LHGCL?


Here's my 2cents on this.  A bit about myself.

I coached select soccer in the Pacific NW. It's not North TX, but at least it's something.
I have a son who is in Developmental Academy right now.  Pretty much the highest you can get for a 15yo boy...aside from the US team...hahaha
I have daughter who is U12 and played LHGCL for a year already.
I have a daughter who plays rec.

I kind of see this from many different sides -- as a parent and as a coach.  Forget the leagues and how they stack up.  Your child needs to play in the league and on the team that allows him/her to be happy, healthy and excited to play the game.

The definition of the above is different for each child.  Some are driven and love the competition and challenge.  Some just love kicking it around for a couple hours a week.  The key is knowing your child.  I can't stress the next statement enough.  FOR GOD'S SAKE -- this needs to be about the child and not about you OR your plans for your child.  It is not about the scholarship to college; it is not about being able to say whether your kid is on one team or another.  IT IS ABOUT YOUR KID.

The rest doesn't matter.  The beauty of NTX is that there are a TON of options -- for all levels of play and all levels of commitment.  It just needs to fit.

All that being said ----  if you're exclusively talking about the female side --


1a) Elite clubs National League (ECNL) -- Currently the top level of national competition by most people's standards.  Great for competition; bad for the pocketbook....
1b) US Developmental Academy (USDA) -- Not in existence yet.  Starts play in 2017.  Yet to be determined if this overtakes ECNL, replaces ECNL, or is a step below ECNL.  Either way, it will likely be a more competitive and demanding league than LHGCL.
2) LHGCL -- Great league. Great competition.  Local.
3) Plano -- Next level down.  Still select teams so will still be heavy time commitment for practices and games.
4) Arlington -- Could argue is either on par or a bit lower than Plano.  
5) Rec -- Strictly for fun.
6) Various indoor/futsal leagues -- Also for fun, though, many competitive players will do this in addition to their regular club schedule.

There are other hybrids like Composite and JDL and Champions league....  but the above are the major categories.  Hope that answers your question!

You could not have said it better.  It's about the kid.  My oldest daughter lives for the game and the time spent with her team mates.  My 2nd daughter just doesn't like to put the time in and it's more social (so she quit) and my 6 year old is just going with the flow but I know she isn't ready for academy.
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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Zizou on 20/07/16, 02:48 pm

The problem is not the leagues. The problem is a child playing PPL and LHGCL is being charged the same rate as a ECNL player and charged more than a GDA player to play. Unless your a parent that does not mind paying more for less to allow your child a place to play. The other thing is, why are coaches off the street with little or no coaching experience, coaching education, and skins being payed the same.


Last edited by Zizou on 20/07/16, 02:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by PrimeTimeSoccer on 20/07/16, 02:52 pm

SocDad wrote:
skiberdad wrote:
PrimeTimeSoccer wrote:Don't forget about PrimeTime Clubs League.

cheers

Where would PTCL get ranked? Guessing between 4 & 5???

Ouch. Our committed teams list looks better than that.

https://events.gotsport.com/events/teamlist.aspx?showall=clean&eventid=52768
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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Guest on 20/07/16, 02:52 pm

Zizou wrote:The problem is not the leagues. The problem is a child playing PPL and LHGCL is being charged the same rate as a ECNL player and charged more than a GDA player to play.

Well, cost is an entirely different topic altogether...!

But I would also say that it's not true for all clubs that the costs are the same. I know of at least a few clubs where the fees are different depending on the level of the team.

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Zizou on 20/07/16, 02:57 pm

Yes would love to hear about these clubs. Please name names.

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Guest on 20/07/16, 03:02 pm

PrimeTimeSoccer wrote:
SocDad wrote:
skiberdad wrote:
PrimeTimeSoccer wrote:Don't forget about PrimeTime Clubs League.

cheers

Where would PTCL get ranked? Guessing between 4 & 5???

Ouch. Our committed teams list looks better than that.

Well, I don't want to start a war or anything.... haha

Caveat 1:  This is a funny year with the age pure rules AND the US Soccer mandates regarding 9v9 and 11v11.  If a team wants to continue 9v9, then Primetime is the place to be.  Understand that next year, LHGCL at U11 and U12 will be 9v9.  So depending on what year you are, you might choose to stay practicing 9v9 vs having to change.
Caveat 2: Once you get past LHGCL and top of Plano, things start to get a lot less clear in terms of "good-ness" of the league.  Honestly, in my humble opinion, it gets to be 6 of one half dozen of the other.  Think about it -- by the time you get to that level you are talking about the top 40 teams being spoken for.  How much real talent can you possibly have in one area of the state?

Those things being said, I would say, again in my humble one person's opinion, that Primetime, for the select ages, is probably below Plano.  Now if you look at this past Spring, since it was the only age pure league around, the top division had all kinds of good teams.

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Guest on 20/07/16, 03:08 pm

Zizou wrote:Yes would love to hear about these clubs. Please name names.

LIke I sad for the other topic, I don't want to start a war so I won't publically air clubs' fees, but even if you just consider travel costs, tournament costs, etc, clearly, ECNL, DA, will cost more.....

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Zizou on 20/07/16, 03:08 pm

Pending? Haven't paid their money?

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Zizou on 20/07/16, 03:12 pm

you would be very surprised taking out the national tournaments and adding in for the older ages national showcases. The cost in the end are not far apart.

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Zizou on 20/07/16, 03:13 pm

DA players will eventually have no club fees or uniform cost.

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Guest on 20/07/16, 03:14 pm

that may be true. My daughter has not gotten to that age not sure what that will end up looking like from a female player point of view. plus, she may not end up making a ECNL team!

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by new2soccer_16 on 21/07/16, 01:17 pm

The way I see competitive soccer is that it is a business at the end of the day and the parents/players are the customers buying a product/service from a club. It is true that the sport/playing is all about the kids. Those 2 things being said, I am of the opinion that if a kid wants to get in any sport at a competitive level, there must be commitment and willingness to improve the most it he/she can. If that does not exist in the kid, then why pay so much money in a club team, it would be better to play in a rec league.
At the same time, as this is a business, and if my kid does want to put the necessary effort to play at the highest level for he/she can play, I would look for a coach (not really a club) that offers what my did needs to improve, not only in the game but also a coach who can teach things that can be applied in our daily lives (play as a team, deal with team member that can be annoying, etc.).
Why would I want to pay so much money to a coach that is independent, that does not have a place to practice, that just tells you what you want to hear, that promises a lot of things and very few are done, that the only thing the coach sees is the big dollar sign in each kids head, etc.
For the same money (and some times even less) I can have my kid with a coach that really enjoys being a coach and really teaches and cares about the kids' development.
I have seen some select teams playing a lot worse than rec teams, why would I want to have my kid in that team, specially if the price is the same as a LHGCL D1 team.

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Lefty on 21/07/16, 01:32 pm

new2soccer_16 wrote:The way I see competitive soccer is that it is a business at the end of the day and the parents/players are the customers buying a product/service from a club. It is true that the sport/playing is all about the kids. Those 2 things being said, I am of the opinion that if a kid wants to get in any sport at a competitive level, there must be commitment and willingness to improve the most it he/she can. If that does not exist in the kid, then why pay so much money in a club team, it would be better to play in a rec league.
At the same time, as this is a business, and if my kid does want to put the necessary effort to play at the highest level for he/she can play, I would look for a coach (not really a club) that offers what my did needs to improve, not only in the game but also a coach who can teach things that can be applied in our daily lives (play as a team, deal with team member that can be annoying, etc.).
Why would I want to pay so much money to a coach that is independent, that does not have a place to practice, that just tells you what you want to hear, that promises a lot of things and very few are done, that the only thing the coach sees is the big dollar sign in each kids head, etc.
For the same money (and some times even less) I can have my kid with a coach that really enjoys being a coach and really teaches and cares about the kids' development.
I have seen some select teams playing a lot worse than rec teams, why would I want to have my kid in that team, specially if the price is the same as a LHGCL D1 team.

Challenge is that some of the larger clubs seem to be wanting to move players more to a club allegiance rather than to a specific coach or any specific team allegiance.

i,e. sign up and pay to join the club and they will align you to the coach and team as they see fit be it for the player development, the clubs need for a particular team to win a specific game or a particular team to fill out a roster at any point in time.

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by jogobonito06 on 21/07/16, 01:50 pm

Lefty wrote:

Challenge is that some of the larger clubs seem to be wanting to move players more to a club allegiance rather than to a specific coach or any specific team allegiance.  

i,e. sign up and pay to join the club and they will align you to the coach and team as they see fit be it for the player development, the clubs need for a particular team to win a specific game or a particular team to fill out a roster at any point in time.

Agreed. Pool training, rosters that can be changed up until gametime, limited substitution rules, etc. all point to an entirely different construct at least for the top teams at the Big 5.

Some people will find that the way they thought about "team" in the past is no more. And you could be signing with a team of coaches, not necessarily the one you want.
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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Guest on 21/07/16, 02:48 pm

jogobonito06 wrote:
Lefty wrote:

Challenge is that some of the larger clubs seem to be wanting to move players more to a club allegiance rather than to a specific coach or any specific team allegiance.  

i,e. sign up and pay to join the club and they will align you to the coach and team as they see fit be it for the player development, the clubs need for a particular team to win a specific game or a particular team to fill out a roster at any point in time.

Agreed.  Pool training, rosters that can be changed up until gametime, limited substitution rules, etc. all point to an entirely different construct at least for the top teams at the Big 5.

Some people will find that the way they thought about "team" in the past is no more.  And you could be signing with a team of coaches, not necessarily the one you want.

All true... Again, I would refer to my first reply.... It's all about the FIT for your child.

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Guest on 21/07/16, 03:03 pm

jogobonito06 wrote:

Some people will find that the way they thought about "team" in the past is no more.  And you could be signing with a team of coaches, not necessarily the one you want.

Said it before, and I'll say it again...  Caveat Emptor.

I'm amazed at how many NTX parents plunk down $3k+ without taking the time to do their own due diligence, then come on here complaining about their experience.  

Skiberdad has it correct on many different levels, but 2 of the most important are:

1) It's all about the FIT for your child.
2) The beauty of NTX is that there are a TON of options

Last I checked, nobody was ever forced to sign a soccer contract against their will...

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Lefty on 21/07/16, 04:35 pm

bwgophers wrote:
jogobonito06 wrote:

Some people will find that the way they thought about "team" in the past is no more.  And you could be signing with a team of coaches, not necessarily the one you want.

Said it before, and I'll say it again...  Caveat Emptor.

I'm amazed at how many NTX parents plunk down $3k+ without taking the time to do their own due diligence, then come on here complaining about their experience.  

Skiberdad has it correct on many different levels, but 2 of the most important are:

1) It's all about the FIT for your child.
2) The beauty of NTX is that there are a TON of options

Last I checked, nobody was ever forced to sign a soccer contract against their will...

Agree.  For the most part the concept of a team in the leagues from LH up is gone.  

I've yet to see a contract from any of the clubs indicating that guest players, CPP players, roster additions, etc. will not be used.  You should make the assumption they may be used, and it will be at the coach/club discretion unless you see it in writing otherwise.

Could be a way for some of the smaller clubs and independent teams to differentiate their offerings from the larger clubs.  An opportunity to know who the coach and players will be that you will play with for the full year for those kids who would like that option.


Last edited by Lefty on 21/07/16, 04:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by upper95 on 21/07/16, 04:36 pm

With the exception of the highest level teams, a club is a loosely organized collection of independent franchisees (teams) and as such, there is no ubiquitous development/promotion methodology.  if you sign your child up for a Plano D3 team, do not expect her to be groomed and moved up the ladder as she develops - you get the responsibility of finding the appropriate level, or if she really shines, she will be recruited by coaches within (sniped, not promoted) and outside the club.


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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Lefty on 21/07/16, 04:58 pm

skiberdad wrote:
Zizou wrote:Yes would love to hear about these clubs. Please name names.

LIke I sad for the other topic, I don't want to start a war so I won't publically air clubs' fees, but even if you just consider travel costs, tournament costs, etc, clearly, ECNL, DA, will cost more.....

Nice deflection, but the question was specifically about FEE differential.

Not about travel & tournament costs and no one asked for you to give the costs, only to name even one club who had different fee structures for different level teams.

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Re: If not LHGCL, then ?

Post by Cleansheets on 21/07/16, 05:50 pm

bwgophers wrote:
jogobonito06 wrote:

Some people will find that the way they thought about "team" in the past is no more.  And you could be signing with a team of coaches, not necessarily the one you want.

Said it before, and I'll say it again...  Caveat Emptor.

I'm amazed at how many NTX parents plunk down $3k+ without taking the time to do their own due diligence, then come on here complaining about their experience.  

Skiberdad has it correct on many different levels, but 2 of the most important are:

1) It's all about the FIT for your child.
2) The beauty of NTX is that there are a TON of options

Last I checked, nobody was ever forced to sign a soccer contract against their will...

Hey bw, Visne mecum Latine loqui?

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