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JDL was it good or bad

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by 05DD on 18/11/16, 10:44 am

Zizou wrote:
05DD wrote:
Zizou wrote:
Cam203030 wrote:So on point Zizou It's a money thing

That's what will be said by all the individuals that are against the big clubs. All clubs make money that why you see a new club popping up every week. US soccer wants control of the clubs, the money, and last but not least the single voice on how the top players should be developed. Not toms nor dick nor Harry's voice that thinks he knows the game.
How does this in any way connect to JDL?
What am I missing here. JDL is an ECNL club thing. US Soccer totally different organization. And what makes US Soccer the authority on how to develop top players? Certainly not their track record. So that only leaves the $$ thing.[/

JDL clubs that you speak of have all been excepted into to the girls development academy. DA is you top division, ECNL will be you second division, lake highlands will become third division and so in down the line. So I suppose you prefer the Tom , dick , and Harry approach?
For now, yes they are the same clubs. ECNL and DA. But let's just wait and see if that's how it truly plays out. But you are trying to make a connection between ECNL and US Soccer training that just isn't there yet if ever.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by Zizou on 18/11/16, 11:20 am

Sure, what he said. Lol

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by tpitty on 18/11/16, 02:42 pm

05DD wrote:. Why aren't we seeing similar results on any of the U20's and below as the full WNT?
U20's will secure first place in their group for the World Cup with a win or tie against Ghana.(currently in first place now) Just beat New Zealand 3-1.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by TatonkaBurger on 18/11/16, 03:44 pm

Downtoplaysoccer wrote:My 2 cents...The JDL league would have been worth it if the Solar Pulp and FCD Red match would of played. I just hate Mother Nature intervened. It was gonna be a good one.

The whole league is worth it (and the disruption it caused) just for the fact that the 2 (arguable) best teams can play each other? ? ?
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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by 05DD on 18/11/16, 04:01 pm

tpitty wrote:
05DD wrote:. Why aren't we seeing similar results on any of the U20's and below as the full WNT?
U20's will secure first place in their group for the World Cup with a win or tie against Ghana.(currently in first place now) Just beat New Zealand 3-1.
Yes they are after being thoroughly outplayed but surviving with a tie against a much more skilled French group who in turn struggled to eek out a tie against the aforementioned Ghana side. Ghana will not be an easy task. With all that said US in a good position to advance.
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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by Big Ern on 18/11/16, 04:30 pm

TatonkaBurger wrote:
Downtoplaysoccer wrote:My 2 cents...The JDL league would have been worth it if the Solar Pulp and FCD Red match would of played. I just hate Mother Nature intervened. It was gonna be a good one.

The whole league is worth it (and the disruption it caused) just for the fact that the 2 (arguable) best teams can play each other? ? ?

Disruption huh?

It's hard to believe that the evolution of youth soccer here and in the rest of the country is so difficult for some to grasp ...

The formation of JDL is simply a sign of the times. As has been mentioned by those in the know in every JDL themed thread on this forum since last June, the consolidation of talent is the direction we are headed in. Programs such as DA and ECNL for U14+, and JDL for the three years preceding have already begun, and will continue, to draw the top talent (both kids and coaches) to the Clubs that offer those programs. If you fervently deny this as it seems some of you do, your daughter will be playing at a PPL level at LHGCL in a couple more years.

The JDL is in it's infancy ... less than 3 months in. While I do agree when it comes to the poor choice of location of games (this will be change in future years) and with the issues with getting referees on a consistent basis, you have to utilize some common sense when passing judgement on it as early as you are.

Some of you recognize this, but the basis of the struggle JDL has had in it's first year is that a few Clubs (and some coaches) did not buy into the JDL as they were directed to. I'm guessing that was due to them being uneducated, or giving in to combative parents with a fear of change that demanded to keep teams together at all costs. It's evident that this is even more prevalent in the 05-06 groups, but I expect that going forward these Clubs will enforce the formation and assignment of coaches to JDL teams just as they do with ECNL. Like ECNL, each Club is to form two JDL teams through a tryout process, and they are to be the top two teams in the U11-U13 age groups in the Club.

This will lead to more consistent, quality competition in JDL in the future.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by TatonkaBurger on 18/11/16, 09:45 pm

BigErn wrote:
TatonkaBurger wrote:
Downtoplaysoccer wrote:My 2 cents...The JDL league would have been worth it if the Solar Pulp and FCD Red match would of played. I just hate Mother Nature intervened. It was gonna be a good one.

The whole league is worth it (and the disruption it caused) just for the fact that the 2 (arguable) best teams can play each other? ? ?

Disruption huh?

It's hard to believe that the evolution of youth soccer here and in the rest of the country is so difficult for some to grasp ...

The formation of JDL is simply a sign of the times.  As has been mentioned by those in the know in every JDL themed thread on this forum since last June, the consolidation of talent is the direction we are headed in.  Programs such as DA and ECNL for U14+, and JDL for the three years preceding have already begun, and will continue, to draw the top talent (both kids and coaches) to the Clubs that offer those programs.  If you fervently deny this as it seems some of you do, your daughter will be playing at a PPL level at LHGCL in a couple more years.

The JDL is in it's infancy ... less than 3 months in.  While I do agree when it comes to the poor choice of location of games (this will be change in future years) and with the issues with getting referees on a consistent basis, you have to utilize some common sense when passing judgement on it as early as you are.  

Some of you recognize this, but the basis of the struggle JDL has had in it's first year is that a few Clubs (and some coaches) did not buy into the JDL as they were directed to.  I'm guessing that was due to them being uneducated, or giving in to combative parents with a fear of change that demanded to keep teams together at all costs. It's evident that this is even more prevalent in the 05-06 groups, but I expect that going forward these Clubs will enforce the formation and assignment of coaches to JDL teams just as they do with ECNL.  Like ECNL, each Club is to form two JDL teams through a tryout process, and they are to be the top two teams in the U11-U13 age groups in the Club.

This will lead to more consistent, quality competition in JDL in the future.

I'm glad you're enjoying the Kook-Aid. But you denying the disruption is comical. And who was DIRECTING the clubs in what they had to do and what they had to buy into?  

I am going to bet that Andromeda and Mustangs wish they had a do over when they got caught up in the summer frenzy to join up with a Big 5 club. Andromeda is now the 4th ranked team in the Solar galaxy and Mustangs 04 got passed over for the second Texans JDL spot. The 05 Mustangs team is in a comfortable 10th place in the 05 JDL league. Those clubs have both been gobbled up and are gone forever.
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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by Big Ern on 18/11/16, 11:02 pm

Holy Lord ... The confusion is more rampant than I thought.

When the smaller Clubs are absorbed by the Big 4, it's not about the teams, it's about the players. Andro and Mustangs knew going in that their top talent would be plucked and placed on top teams ... It's what's best for those kids and those two did the right thing - They are providing stronger opportunities via superior vehicles (DA, ECNL) for their athletes while providing stability for their coaches in Clubs that are now more viable.

There is no Kool Aid, just reality. If your daughter is talented enough to play on one of the top two teams at FCD, Solar, Texans or Sting at U11-U13, you can count on a ton of movement of individual players due to the competition to gain a spot on those teams.

Speaking of gobbled up ... LP, Rush and Kicks (or much of their talent) are next.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by SickofStupidity on 19/11/16, 07:12 am

BigErn wrote:Holy Lord ... The confusion is more rampant than I thought.  

When the smaller Clubs are absorbed by the Big 4, it's not about the teams, it's about the players.  Andro and Mustangs knew going in that their top talent would be plucked and placed on top teams ... It's what's best for those kids and those two did the right thing - They are providing stronger opportunities via superior vehicles (DA, ECNL) for their athletes while providing stability for their coaches in Clubs that are now more viable.  

There is no Kool Aid, just reality.  If your daughter is talented enough to play on one of the top two teams at FCD, Solar, Texans or Sting at U11-U13, you can count on a ton of movement of individual players due to the competition to gain a spot on those teams.

Speaking of gobbled up ... LP, Rush and Kicks (or much of their talent) are next.


Lol.  I almost forgot.  Its all about the rescuing kids from stupid parents.  So noble! cheers

And I'm happy we have BigE here to be the arbiter of what is best for all the girls and clubs. Rolling Eyes

DA and ECNL don't begin until U14 - parents have always been able to make the switch at that point (or any other time they desire).  JDL is starting the process years earlier.  I'm sure parents on Rush, Kicks, etc., would differ with your assessment that the "stronger opportunties" at U13 and U12 lie at one of the JDL clubs.

Those girls would always have had the opportunity to move to DA / ECNL clubs at 13.

This has been about power and consolidation - big clubs trying to gobble up the talent - and $$ - as early as possible.  (from the same coaches who have acknowledged in the past that most talent has yet to be discovered at 11 and 12).  In BigE's world, there would be only ECNL / DA clubs - how else to protect stupid parents from bad coaches?  How better to discover and train talented players at 10 without consolidation?

So let's be honest - there are some TERRIBLE coaches at the large clubs - you know, they ones who used ECNL as a recruiting tool.  Now they use JDL even earlier.  Players on those teams are NOT better served - and I can assure you that the coaches of the JDL teams are not watching for players on those teams.

There are some EXCELLENT coaches not in JDL simply because they are not in ECNL clubs (and I would argue, coaches who are better than some of the JDL coaches).  And it was the JDL clubs who ACTIVELY and VIGOROUSLY opposed involving those coaches and players with the intent of driving those players to their teams.


But the best part - for a program run with these lofty goals being spewed out in June (and development / play time / substitutions being controlled by the coaches) - the question lies in how these coaches delivered.


The 4-5 parents I've talked to all agree the coaches didn't live up to the sales pitch. Kids didn't play at different positions and the subbing didn't change a whole lot.

I would say I have spoken to 20+ parents who have made the same comments.  Parents across a host of teams including those who play for . . . FCD (yes, LW), Sting and Solar . . . who have said that they were oversold by coaches, that subbing differed little (or play time was even decreased for some due to subbing rules), and that coaches still played, assigned positions, and substituted for winning over development (sure, a couple kids might see more play time or different positions when they were up 4-0, but rarely or never when the game was close or when the game was on the line).

It's hard to know what LHGCL would have looked like without JDL given the mergers and movement of some (independent) D1 players to JDL teams.

But likely something like:

2 FCD teams
Rush
2 Texans teams (or Texans / Mustangs)
Sting
Solar
D'Feeters
LP

so every JDL club would have been represented by their best team, plus Mustangs and Rush (the best 2 non-JDL teams in D1)

So. Did JDL provide better overall competition week-to-week?


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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by Zizou on 19/11/16, 08:19 am

Consolidation is needed, yes for everyone good coach that is out there. Their are a mulititude of other coaches that do not need to be working as coaches. Consolidation should also push the good coaches into these systems. Unfortunately with regulation , and I will say much needed regulation, means someone will have control.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by SickofStupidity on 19/11/16, 10:25 am

And I forgot to add - plenty of excellent coaches who simply don't want to be a part of the politicization and arse-kissing required at some of the larger clubs.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by Big Ern on 19/11/16, 11:21 am

Thanks SoS for always being there to set me straight --

Once again, you and most of the rest, are judging the JDL after 11 weeks of existence ... Brilliance!

The focal point I'm trying to make clear is 'inevitability' --
Due to the programs available at the Big 4 (went ahead and eliminated the other one you are most familiar with) most, if not all, of the top talent will be there ... Regardless of your expert opinion of the coaches or Clubs in power. Clubs like Mustangs, Andro, LP and Rush know this and have or soon will be making that move for reasons I've already mentioned.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by Zizou on 19/11/16, 12:44 pm

SickofSilliness wrote:And I forgot to add - plenty of excellent coaches who simply don't want to be a part of the politicization and arse-kissing required at some of the larger clubs.

Lol, that is too funny. Independents power, it's time to rise up and protest. You could schedule a protest in the streets of Dallas against the politicization of women's soccer.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by SickofStupidity on 19/11/16, 01:58 pm

Not arguing inevitability.

Just challenging the  coaches who sold the shit out of JDL as "developmental", that it would be "different" from LH D1, that week-to-week competition would be better, that players would have the regular opportunity to try different positions, that substitution limitations would increase playing time for marginal players...

The same coaches who were in the unique position to control every facet of the above

Turned out - not much different from what LH D1 would have been like without JDL.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by Big Ern on 19/11/16, 02:39 pm

SickofSilliness wrote:Not arguing inevitability.

Just challenging the  coaches who sold the shit out of JDL as "developmental", that it would be "different" from LH D1, that week-to-week competition would be better, that players would have the regular opportunity to try different positions, that substitution limitations would increase playing time for marginal players...

The same coaches who were in the unique position to control every facet of the above

Turned out - not much different from what LH D1 would have been like without JDL.

... 11 weeks

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by SickofStupidity on 19/11/16, 03:48 pm

A - 5 months

B - even if 11 weeks - the coaches have had all the power to differentiate JDL from LH D1 - FAIL

evidence the next 11 will be any different?

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by Zizou on 19/11/16, 05:23 pm

New ideas and major change do not happen overnight. Changing a flawed culture with all it critics will take time. Change is needed, building leagues where players, parents, coaches, and clubs ready themselves for battle rather than playing a beautiful game does not work.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by Big Ern on 19/11/16, 05:48 pm

SoS --

JDL has been in business for 11 weeks ... Literally.

You should think in terms of years, rather than months. This may make ya sad, but JDL is gonna be around ... Permanently.

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by tpitty on 22/11/16, 09:44 am

Lakedad wrote: kinda disappointing for the 05 group as a whole and Pulp/Red got rained out.

Lakedad, wasn't this rescheduled for Feb 19?

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Re: JDL was it good or bad

Post by newbiefornow on 22/11/16, 03:30 pm

I wouldn't be too sold on the ease of switching into ECNL teams from outside the Clubs that have them. Maybe across but not seamlessly in.

That said when the DA split happens next year, slots will open up in the ECNL teams of the clubs that have DA Teams. Preference is always going to be given to a known quantity rather than an unknown one. If your DD is stand out they will be noticed and can earn a slot. They'll just have to be that little bit better than an equivalent "in-house" player.

We're one year in to our ECNL experience. It's actually quiet nice. Less drama, more focus and better soccer. It's also very expensive and a really big time commitment for child and parents.

Nothing at the top of the Sport is easy. So just because it's slightly harder to move from a non-ECNL club to an ECNL one does NOT mean that it's impossible. It's just a little more difficult so work harder.

My perception is that JDL is a proto-ECNL and Composite is a genuine proving ground for ECNL. I've seen several kids in pretty much all the clubs move from Composite to ECNL. More touches and more chances to play mean better players in my opinion.

Coaches are not evil and clubs aren't either. They're not saints just people trying to make a living and doing what they love. So JDL is good.

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