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Contract Players

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Contract Players

Post by BigEnchilada on 15/12/16, 12:00 pm

Can players under contract play indoor with another competitive team?
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Re: Contract Players

Post by tpitty on 15/12/16, 12:03 pm

Yes.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by BigEnchilada on 15/12/16, 12:09 pm

no rules from NTSSA or release required?
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Re: Contract Players

Post by tpitty on 15/12/16, 12:10 pm

That players coach may not appreciate not knowing, but outdoor contracts are governed by NTSSA.

Indoor and Futsal are different governing bodies

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Re: Contract Players

Post by Zizou on 15/12/16, 12:20 pm

Big enchilada is having a bad year. Please fill us in on the details. You seem to be so ready to get out you will do anything.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by BigEnchilada on 15/12/16, 12:23 pm

z - just seems the infinite wisdom of this board is endless and much easier than seeking knowledge from the dali llama.

If that's the case - a coach may not know a player is under contract or not and approach them to see if theyre interested in joining their team? what then?
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Re: Contract Players

Post by Guest on 15/12/16, 12:30 pm

BIGENCHILADA wrote:z - just seems the infinite wisdom of this board is endless and much easier than seeking knowledge from the dali llama.

If that's the case - a coach may not know a player is under contract or not and approach them to see if theyre interested in joining their team? what then?

Which team?

1) NTSSA competitive registered team playing in an NTSSA sanctioned league (indoor or outdoor)? Answer: Sorry Coach, but we're under contract with Team XYZ. Can't do it.

2) Non-NTSSA sanctioned team in a non-NTSSA sanctioned league? Answer: Completely up to you BigE, whether or not you want to cause an issue with your current coach.


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Re: Contract Players

Post by Zizou on 15/12/16, 12:32 pm

Most coaches coaches know but may not care that a player is under contract. Be very careful with those coaches. Business done under secrets and lies will come back to haunt you.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by go99 on 16/12/16, 09:49 am

outdoor, indoor, futsal doesn't matter. Only matters what governing body its under. Your cl contract is under ntssa so if it's not that then you are free to do what you want.
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Re: Contract Players

Post by KeeperCommander on 16/12/16, 10:35 am

go99 wrote:outdoor, indoor, futsal doesn't matter.  Only matters what governing body its under.  Your cl contract is under ntssa so if it's not that then you are free to do what you want.
Nothing to stop a coach from cutting you if they really want to. If you are within the rules but coach doesn't like it well.....

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Re: Contract Players

Post by go99 on 16/12/16, 10:38 am

if he cuts you then he has to release you so problem solved I guess
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Re: Contract Players

Post by KeeperCommander on 16/12/16, 10:41 am

go99 wrote:if he cuts you then he has to release you so problem solved I guess
True. I was speaking more to the players that do not want to be cut yet are for a ridiculous reason such as playing Futsal or getting instruction from someone the coach doesn't like. With in the rules but coach has a problem.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by Guest on 16/12/16, 10:46 am

go99 wrote:if he cuts you then he has to release you so problem solved I guess

I'm surprised more parents don't just take this approach.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by Guest on 16/12/16, 10:55 am

KeeperCommander wrote:
go99 wrote:outdoor, indoor, futsal doesn't matter.  Only matters what governing body its under.  Your cl contract is under ntssa so if it's not that then you are free to do what you want.
Nothing to stop a coach from cutting you if they really want to. If you are within the rules but coach doesn't like it well.....

Ummm... if it's select and it's an NTSSA registered team, coach can't cut you mid-season. Mid-season releases can only be initiated by players, unless the player has violated NTSSA rules in some way.

Now... coach can bury you on the bench to the point where you'll want to request your release, but the coach can't "cut" you in the traditional sense of the word in this case.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by go99 on 16/12/16, 10:57 am

KeeperCommander wrote:
go99 wrote:if he cuts you then he has to release you so problem solved I guess
True. I was speaking more to the players that do not want to be cut yet are for a ridiculous reason such as playing Futsal or getting instruction from someone the coach doesn't like. With in the rules but coach has a problem.

Now I am a big fan of being upfront and just telling the coach but I do see many parents are afraid of their coach so feel the need to sneak.

Know what the rules are (don't just think, know) but I also suggest telling the coach exactly what you are doing and why. There is always some shifty parent looking to get and edge like the one who was creeping on my DD taking pics so they could send to her coach. hope it helped them but the obviously didn't know me very well

upfront, direct and an open dialogue. If it's just extra touches etc then tell the coach. If its looking then tell them that also and the reasons why. You might find their answers enlightening and might solve any of the questions. Two of the biggest problems in NTX parents are terrified of clubs and coaches. Coaches feel they don't need to talk to parents. The two people who are supposed to be there for the good of the child don't communicate
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Re: Contract Players

Post by go99 on 16/12/16, 10:59 am

bwgophers wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
go99 wrote:outdoor, indoor, futsal doesn't matter.  Only matters what governing body its under.  Your cl contract is under ntssa so if it's not that then you are free to do what you want.
Nothing to stop a coach from cutting you if they really want to. If you are within the rules but coach doesn't like it well.....

Ummm... if it's select and it's an NTSSA registered team, coach can't cut you mid-season.  Mid-season releases can only be initiated by players, unless the player has violated NTSSA rules in some way.

Now... coach can bury you on the bench to the point where you'll want to request your release, but the coach can't "cut" you in the traditional sense of the word in this case.

he can't "cut" you but he can tell you you aren't welcome and sign a release for you to leave. Also burying you on the bench for it might give you the grounds to Dribble a release
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Re: Contract Players

Post by KeeperCommander on 16/12/16, 12:58 pm

go99 wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
go99 wrote:outdoor, indoor, futsal doesn't matter.  Only matters what governing body its under.  Your cl contract is under ntssa so if it's not that then you are free to do what you want.
Nothing to stop a coach from cutting you if they really want to. If you are within the rules but coach doesn't like it well.....

Ummm... if it's select and it's an NTSSA registered team, coach can't cut you mid-season.  Mid-season releases can only be initiated by players, unless the player has violated NTSSA rules in some way.

Now... coach can bury you on the bench to the point where you'll want to request your release, but the coach can't "cut" you in the traditional sense of the word in this case.

he can't "cut" you but he can tell you you aren't welcome and sign a release for you to leave.  Also burying you on the bench for it might give you the grounds to Dribble a release
Telling a player they are not welcome and then signing a release for them is essentially cutting a player. Just in a "safe space millennial" way of putting it. Not to sound heartless but some folks they need that reality check.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by Guest on 16/12/16, 01:06 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:
go99 wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
go99 wrote:outdoor, indoor, futsal doesn't matter.  Only matters what governing body its under.  Your cl contract is under ntssa so if it's not that then you are free to do what you want.
Nothing to stop a coach from cutting you if they really want to. If you are within the rules but coach doesn't like it well.....

Ummm... if it's select and it's an NTSSA registered team, coach can't cut you mid-season.  Mid-season releases can only be initiated by players, unless the player has violated NTSSA rules in some way.

Now... coach can bury you on the bench to the point where you'll want to request your release, but the coach can't "cut" you in the traditional sense of the word in this case.

he can't "cut" you but he can tell you you aren't welcome and sign a release for you to leave.  Also burying you on the bench for it might give you the grounds to Dribble a release
Telling a player they are not welcome and then signing a release for them is essentially cutting a player. Just in a "safe space millennial" way of putting it. Not to sound heartless but some folks they need that reality check.

Again, technically, per NTSSA rules, a coach can't do that during the current season, and could be grounds for disciplinary actions. My experience is that coaches know this and won't go there. They'll send the message via lack of playing time and "cold shoulder" to the player and parents, and let the parents initiate the release process.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by KeeperCommander on 16/12/16, 01:21 pm

bwgophers wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
go99 wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
go99 wrote:outdoor, indoor, futsal doesn't matter.  Only matters what governing body its under.  Your cl contract is under ntssa so if it's not that then you are free to do what you want.
Nothing to stop a coach from cutting you if they really want to. If you are within the rules but coach doesn't like it well.....

Ummm... if it's select and it's an NTSSA registered team, coach can't cut you mid-season.  Mid-season releases can only be initiated by players, unless the player has violated NTSSA rules in some way.

Now... coach can bury you on the bench to the point where you'll want to request your release, but the coach can't "cut" you in the traditional sense of the word in this case.

he can't "cut" you but he can tell you you aren't welcome and sign a release for you to leave.  Also burying you on the bench for it might give you the grounds to Dribble a release
Telling a player they are not welcome and then signing a release for them is essentially cutting a player. Just in a "safe space millennial" way of putting it. Not to sound heartless but some folks they need that reality check.

Again, technically, per NTSSA rules, a coach can't do that during the current season, and could be grounds for disciplinary actions.  My experience is that coaches know this and won't go there.  They'll send the message via lack of playing time and "cold shoulder" to the player and parents, and let the parents initiate the release process.
Oh I an sure that is the rule BW. At the very least it is what they intended the rule to be. However if that is the rule then the very mention of "you might as well just leave because I can't cut your kid so I will just sit her till you do leave" is technically the same thing and would also draw the ire of the NTSSA. Doesn't matter how you slice it. To me if my kid was in this situation i would want to know what the coach was seeing. If I needed to take my DD elsewhere then I would want my coach to tell me. No matter the consequence. If I needed to go then I should go. Most times I am sure they are just shipped off to another team, same club.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by Guest on 16/12/16, 01:52 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:
 However if that is the rule then the very mention of "you might as well just leave because I can't cut your kid so I will just sit her till you do leave" is technically the same thing and would also draw the ire of the NTSSA. 

You are 100% correct. That would draw the ire of NTSSA. Which is exactly why in my experience, you rarely hear of a conversation like that happening.

We're really getting into semantics here. Bottom line, in my experience, coaches know that they are not allowed to be the one to bring up the subject of a release, so they will use "alternative measures" (i.e. playing time) to send the message to the point where the parent will initiate the conversation, and eventually be the one to initiate the request for a release.

Is it a stupid dance? Yup... but the rules dictate it.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by KeeperCommander on 16/12/16, 02:08 pm

bwgophers wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
 However if that is the rule then the very mention of "you might as well just leave because I can't cut your kid so I will just sit her till you do leave" is technically the same thing and would also draw the ire of the NTSSA. 

You are 100% correct.  That would draw the ire of NTSSA.  Which is exactly why in my experience, you rarely hear of a conversation like that happening.  

We're really getting into semantics here.  Bottom line, in my experience, coaches know that they are not allowed to be the one to bring up the subject of a release, so they will use "alternative measures" (i.e. playing time) to send the message to the point where the parent will initiate the conversation, and eventually be the one to initiate the request for a release.

Is it a stupid dance?  Yup... but the rules dictate it.
Semantics? Maybe perhaps. There is always a way. I will say this that if there is an actual rule stating that a coach may not bring up a release then there is also a rule that states he can in certain situations. If a player is a bad fit or bad apple then the coach has every right to "cut" that player under the rules. Interpretation is everything in these rules.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by Guest on 16/12/16, 04:43 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:
 However if that is the rule then the very mention of "you might as well just leave because I can't cut your kid so I will just sit her till you do leave" is technically the same thing and would also draw the ire of the NTSSA. 

You are 100% correct.  That would draw the ire of NTSSA.  Which is exactly why in my experience, you rarely hear of a conversation like that happening.  

We're really getting into semantics here.  Bottom line, in my experience, coaches know that they are not allowed to be the one to bring up the subject of a release, so they will use "alternative measures" (i.e. playing time) to send the message to the point where the parent will initiate the conversation, and eventually be the one to initiate the request for a release.

Is it a stupid dance?  Yup... but the rules dictate it.
Semantics? Maybe perhaps.  There is always a way.  I will say this that if there is an actual rule stating that a coach may not bring up a release then there is also a rule that states he can in certain situations.  If a player is a bad fit or bad apple then the coach has every right to "cut" that player under the rules.  Interpretation is everything in these rules.  

Here is the exact rule copied from the NTSSA by-laws.  "Bad Fit" is not justification for a coach to "cut" the player.  "Bad Apple" is addressed in section 3 below, but the bar is set pretty high on that.  Section 4 basically says that coach, manager, etc. CANNOT just say "you are no longer welcome on the team" (i.e. you are cut). In short, coaches can bench a player they don't like, or they feel isn't keeping up, but they can not just "cut" a player without significant cause.

Any player rostered to a competitive team is bound to that team for the entire seasonal year unless the player
requests a release or is released involuntarily. A player release shall be submitted to and approved by the
NTSSA Youth Commissioner in writing on the form provided, stating the reason for the request on the
release. Approval of a player release from a competitive team by North Texas Soccer does not constitute a
release of financial liability, if applicable to the team.

1. A player may be released from a team involuntarily if the player is unable to play for one of the
following reasons.

a. The player has violated rules of the U.S. Soccer Federation, USYSA, NTSSA or
NTSSA Member Associations.

b. The player has moved beyond a reasonable travel distance. Determination of what
constitutes a reasonable travel distance is subject to definition by NTSSA.

c. The player is injured in such a manner that the player will not be able to participate for
the remainder of the season.

2. A player who has not attended any team functions or been in contact with their team manager
or coach with intentions to return to the team for a period of 30 consecutive days will be
considered to have abandoned their team and may be released from the team with the
approval of the NTSSA Youth Commissioner in writing on the form provided.

3. In an extreme case where a player is exceedingly disruptive, whether physically and/or
verbally abusive, and is believed to be detrimental to the remainder of the team, the coach
may petition the NTSSA Youth Commissioner to release the player from the team. The Youth
Commissioner, after consulting with the parent(s) of the player will make a decision whether
or not the conditions fall within the guidelines to allow the release. The Youth
Commissioner’s decision may be appealed to the NTX Executive Board by either party.
Unless in the opinion of the Youth Commissioner the actions of the player are so egregious as
to otherwise warrant release from the team, the following circumstances must be present for
the release to be considered:

a. The coach must have spoken with the player and parent(s) in an attempt to correct
the player’s behavior and given the player a chance to improve their behavior.

b. The coach must have attempted to correct the player’s behavior through reduction of
playing time and/or sitting out of practices.

c. The coach must not be utilizing the player’s behavior in an attempt to remove a
lesser skilled player from their team. If other players are demonstrating the same
behavior, the coach cannot single out a player for release from the team.

d. The coach cannot use problems with a player’s parents or financial issues as a reason
to remove a player from a roster. They may, however, reduce or eliminate playing
time for these reasons.

4. Any coach who releases a player involuntarily for any reason other than listed in 1-3 above
may be brought before the NTSSA Competitive Committee to explain his/her actions. An
assertion by the coach or any person with authority or assumed authority on the team, either
verbally or by action, that a reasonable person would interpret to mean that the player is no
longer welcome on the team may be considered an involuntary release by the coach, even
if no formal steps to complete release paperwork have been taken. If the Competitive
Committee finds the involuntary release was not justified or could have been avoided in the
best interest of the player, the coach is subject to severe sanctions including, but not limited
to, suspension from all soccer activities for a period of time to be determined by the
Competitive Committee. The coach is responsible for the action of persons in authority, or
with assumed authority, on the team.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by KeeperCommander on 16/12/16, 06:16 pm

bwgophers wrote:

Here is the exact rule copied from the NTSSA by-laws.  "Bad Fit" is not justification for a coach to "cut" the player.  "Bad Apple" is addressed in section 3 below, but the bar is set pretty high on that.  Section 4 basically says that coach, manager, etc. CANNOT just say "you are no longer welcome on the team" (i.e. you are cut). In short, coaches can bench a player they don't like, or they feel isn't keeping up, but they can not just "cut" a player without significant cause.

Any player rostered to a competitive team is bound to that team for the entire seasonal year unless the player
requests a release or is released involuntarily. A player release shall be submitted to and approved by the
NTSSA Youth Commissioner in writing on the form provided, stating the reason for the request on the
release. Approval of a player release from a competitive team by North Texas Soccer does not constitute a
release of financial liability, if applicable to the team.

1. A player may be released from a team involuntarily if the player is unable to play for one of the
following reasons.

a. The player has violated rules of the U.S. Soccer Federation, USYSA, NTSSA or
NTSSA Member Associations.

b. The player has moved beyond a reasonable travel distance. Determination of what
constitutes a reasonable travel distance is subject to definition by NTSSA.

c. The player is injured in such a manner that the player will not be able to participate for
the remainder of the season.

2. A player who has not attended any team functions or been in contact with their team manager
or coach with intentions to return to the team for a period of 30 consecutive days will be
considered to have abandoned their team and may be released from the team with the
approval of the NTSSA Youth Commissioner in writing on the form provided.

3. In an extreme case where a player is exceedingly disruptive, whether physically and/or
verbally abusive, and is believed to be detrimental to the remainder of the team, the coach
may petition the NTSSA Youth Commissioner to release the player from the team. The Youth
Commissioner, after consulting with the parent(s) of the player will make a decision whether
or not the conditions fall within the guidelines to allow the release. The Youth
Commissioner’s decision may be appealed to the NTX Executive Board by either party.
Unless in the opinion of the Youth Commissioner the actions of the player are so egregious as
to otherwise warrant release from the team, the following circumstances must be present for
the release to be considered:

a. The coach must have spoken with the player and parent(s) in an attempt to correct
the player’s behavior and given the player a chance to improve their behavior.

b. The coach must have attempted to correct the player’s behavior through reduction of
playing time and/or sitting out of practices.

c. The coach must not be utilizing the player’s behavior in an attempt to remove a
lesser skilled player from their team. If other players are demonstrating the same
behavior, the coach cannot single out a player for release from the team.

d. The coach cannot use problems with a player’s parents or financial issues as a reason
to remove a player from a roster. They may, however, reduce or eliminate playing
time for these reasons.

4. Any coach who releases a player involuntarily for any reason other than listed in 1-3 above
may be brought before the NTSSA Competitive Committee to explain his/her actions. An
assertion by the coach or any person with authority or assumed authority on the team, either
verbally or by action, that a reasonable person would interpret to mean that the player is no
longer welcome on the team may be considered an involuntary release by the coach, even
if no formal steps to complete release paperwork have been taken. If the Competitive
Committee finds the involuntary release was not justified or could have been avoided in the
best interest of the player, the coach is subject to severe sanctions including, but not limited
to, suspension from all soccer activities for a period of time to be determined by the
Competitive Committee. The coach is responsible for the action of persons in authority, or
with assumed authority, on the team.
Pay special attention ladies and gentlemen, that is how you answer a post on a particular topic. Nice.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by Cleansheets on 16/12/16, 06:38 pm

Oh hell, he just copy and pasted that. Don't let bw fool you with all that slight of hand stuff. It's all smoke and mirrors.

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Re: Contract Players

Post by Guest on 16/12/16, 08:37 pm

Pay no attention to the fat guy behind the curtain on his computer...

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