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Why is Primetime discriminating?

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by PowerKick on 01/02/17, 10:35 am

timmyh wrote:

I don't think any of us can remember NTX ever having a really good U10 team before, so I am a huge fan of what you're doing here as I'm sure it's been repeatedly proven that success at age 9 absolutely translates to future national team success.  So, I'm super happy that your 3rd grader is still on the YNT fast track.

I don't have my team program, but I would like to keep following along and be informed.  Would it be easier for you to list the girls that will be on the national team soon or is it quicker to just list the girls that won't be?

Can you also keep us all up to date with occasional game recaps? I know some people will come on here and say it's crazy and the Solar 07 parents are a bit over the top.  Ignore the haters.  They are probably just jealous of your girl's talent.  Keep doing what you do.


Come on, why you seems so mad?

I am just a messenger with good intention. I know nothing about that team except played them before. My dd is an 06.


Last edited by PowerKick on 01/02/17, 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by PowerKick on 01/02/17, 10:37 am

soccerjack wrote:I'm sure powerkick is way to humble to admit it, but I'd be willing to bet his/her dd is probably one of the top players on this superstar filled team.

Haha, I think you have a short memory. Mine is 06 just as yours, and she is not top on a not super team.


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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by timmyh on 01/02/17, 10:42 am

PowerKick wrote:
timmyh wrote:

I don't think any of us can remember NTX ever having a really good U10 team before, so I am a huge fan of what you're doing here as I'm sure it's been repeatedly proven that success at age 9 absolutely translates to future national team success.  So, I'm super happy that your 3rd grader is still on the YNT fast track.

I don't have my team program, but I would like to keep following along and be informed.  Would it be easier for you to list the girls that will be on the national team soon or is it quicker to just list the girls that won't be?

Can you also keep us all up to date with occasional game recaps? I know some people will come on here and say it's crazy and the Solar 07 parents are a bit over the top.  Ignore the haters.  They are probably just jealous of your girl's talent.  Keep doing what you do.


Come on, why you seems so mad?

I am just a messenger with good intention. I know nothing about that team exception played them before. My dd is an 06.


Shoot. I guess my trolling was too transparent. Just trying to have a little fun. I ain't mad. I genuinely wish them all the best.
And it is a really good team. I'm actually on their side in this controversy. Let the girls play up to whatever level is appropriate.

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by Sho'Nuff on 01/02/17, 10:52 am

coachdom23 wrote:
jogobonito06 wrote:There is a long tradition of top girl's teams playing vs boys.

There is just as long a tradition of the boys teams hating it. Just because a tradition has been around for a while, that does not always make it a good tradition.

Frankly, I found in most cases the top U10 girls teams would use PTS to get league games against boys and then rarely play in PTS tournaments when they were U10 or after they moved up to U11. So, PTS league would have one happy girls team and several unhappy boys teams. Then, none of these teams would play in tournaments.

Feel free to blame or thank me for this change as I pushed for it before leaving the competitive soccer tournament/league business in December.

cheers

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by Uncleof05AP on 01/02/17, 11:58 am

Personally, I hated when my nephew played a girl's team when he was younger. Yes, it was a no-win situation for him, but I was more concerned for his life. The girls were vicious. It was like watching a prison riot. I truly saw one girl kick a goalie in the head when he was defenseless on the ground, and trust me, she was not going for the ball. Arguably, my nephew could have learned from that experience to be more aggressive. In reality, however, anytime one of the boys committed a hard foul the parents from the girl teams would go crazy - even though a second earlier they cheered a couple of their girls after they basically gutted one of the boy players. Thus, in the end, the boys did not always give their full effort in my opinion. They did not know how to handle the situation. As a result, under that scenario, are the girl teams truly playing tougher competition?

That being said, I often saw some great girl teams that were more skilled, tougher, and faster. Therefore, I truly understand the other side of the argument.

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by Ron Mexico on 01/02/17, 01:24 pm

AtThePitch wrote:
Ron Mexico wrote:
AtThePitch wrote:No offense to the STX teams or solar, but Solar 07 was not playing the top 06 squads from STX.

This is kinda the point.  

The teams in question here will play one team in league play that is competitive. They don't have the option to play the top teams in the next age group.  

In the past, they have played in (and excelled in) boys leagues.  With this no longer an option, they are relegated to playing bottom tier 06 teams (not dissimilar to the STX 06's from Houston).

Solar 07/Kicks 07 are not overzealous, nor are they trying to be trailblazers.  They are just looking for competitive games that challenge their girls.

Mr. Mexico... considering this same exact scenario plays itself out year, after year, after year... you would think these teams would be a little more proactive and find a solution to the matter.

I have seen it play out where an entire boys division just abandons a league over night because of girls teams being allowed to play.  All of these coaches are aware it happens every single year.


Couldn't agree with you more. I am all for the clubs and coaches looking into every possible option and finding solutions.

I feel like I need to clarify the complaint, from the solar side anyway. And before I do, I'll make it clear that I don't speak for solar,the parents or coaches but believe I have a firm grasp on the source of the frustration.

The problem in this circumstance is that the coaches had found a "solution". They played in the league last year and were allowed to register this year. Only to find out after registration and after it became known they were in the league... they were no longer going to be permitted to play on the league. If league policy is "girls can't play in boys leagues" I don't think you would find an argument. But, if the policy is "girls can play in boys leagues until the coaches and the parents get upset about their boys getting beat by girls" it's a little different.

I see a lot comments about solar 07 parents (and maybe they are deserved) but I don't see anyone commenting on the parents that threaten to take their ball and go home when it looks like little Johnny may get his feelers hurt because he lost to a girl. Maybe a little of that is deserved too?...

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by kabe on 01/02/17, 03:28 pm

So I have never posted, but read this stuff for pure entertainment.  I couldn't resist on this one.  Does it really matter if they are girls?   Do you get mad at the boys team you slaughter 10-0?

I'm sure the 07 girls team you reference is similar to ours and is just seeking the right level.  My daughters team is an 08 team and we have played in two boys tournaments as well as a boys indoor league.  Our team is simply looking to play at the right level to help continue development. We aren't seeking notoriety as you state, but are just trying to make sure the games are as challenging as possible.  We won one of the  boys tournaments and just lost in the semifinals this weekend in a boys tournament.  All of the games were competitive and they played at the right level which is exactly what we were looking for and what most parents are looking for.  Yes you have a point if the team is getting beat badly they shouldn't be in that group, but if they are giving the boys a run for their money...who cares if they are girls?  

Sometimes the weekends we are available to play in tourneys, the girls divisions don't make or the level of competition just isn't right, so the only option is to play in the boys tourneys/leagues.  I don't think any of the teams we played this weekend would say we weren't at the appropriate level and/or they wasted their time.  The girls went 3-0 in pool play. All competitive games and lost in a very competitive 1-0 semifinal that could have gone either way.  

We found a "solution" this year and that was to create an invitation only league with teams that were all playing at a high level.  This was also met with disdain from the crazy board.  Contrary to what most on the board think, this was put together by several of the team managers and this isn't the first time it has been done.  Same thing for indoor this past summer.  The girls on these teams are just currently playing at a different level.  Doesn't mean the other teams/players won't get there or pass them at a later date, the same skills just currently aren't there.  We certainly don't want to drive an hour on a Sunday or Friday night to play a game and win 13-0 and have the best players sit on the bench in the name of sportsmanship.  Some of the teams we played signed up for Gold, but were put in a Gold/Platinum mixed league and I'm sure they don't like driving/paying to get killed by a team they didn't want to play in the first place.  That doesn't do the girls justice for the hard work they put in on either team.  So what do we do?  We play up, we play boys, and we create "double secret" leagues all in an effort to simply play at the right level.  If we get killed or kill all of the teams we move on to find a different "solution".

By the way, if little Johnny can't handle getting beat by girls, he has some tough times coming to him in life.

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by Big Ern on 01/02/17, 03:34 pm

[/quote]

Good point stx and other regions tend to pass by ntx at the older ages when skill and soccer iq take over. [/quote]

Or not ...

04s

3 SOLAR SC CHELSEA PULPANECK (TXN) 35.65
5 DALLAS TEXANS SOUTH (TXN) 35.49
6 FC DALLAS JDL RED (TXN) 35.48

closest STX is 15

03s

1 STING SC DALLAS ECNL (TXN) 38.02
2 SOLAR SC CHELSEA ECNL (TXN) 37.70
6 FC DALLAS ECNL (TXN) 37.14
7 DALLAS TEXANS ECNL (TXN) 37.08

closest STX is 22

02s

15 FC DALLAS ECNL (TXN) 38.31

closest STX is 18

01s

7 FC DALLAS ECNL (TXN) 39.88
14 STING SC DALLAS ECNL (TXN) 39.39
22 SOLAR SC CHELSEA ECNL (TXN) 38.91

closest STX is 41

00s

3 SOLAR SC CHELSEA ECNL (TXN) 40.86

closest STX is 77


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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by Uncleof05AP on 01/02/17, 03:55 pm

For the record, I have never heard an eight-year old boy (especially none called Johnny) complain about being beat by a girl team.   Most of the time they are more concerned about whether they are going to have ice cream after a match.   They could care less what gender beat them or that they even lost, especially five minutes later.   In fact, I have never even heard a parent complain about being beat by a girl team.  That being said, in general, soccer parents are crazy, and it would not surprise me if some complained to PTL.  I do not, however, believe it was because they were afraid of being beat by a bunch of girls.  I am guessing the complaints were more coach driven.  Just throwing it out there, but there might have been other reasons for the complaints other  than the fear of losing to a girl team.

In my opinion, if girls want to play in the same league as boys, they should be allowed to do so.   I have a feeling, either way, it really is not going to impact the kids.   I am pretty sure it will not be the difference in them (boy or girl) playing on the national team one day.   Then again, I am idiot according to my wife and children (and just about everyone else).

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by KeeperCommander on 01/02/17, 04:03 pm

If I remember correctly the traditional 05 girls, before their first year of select, had several seasons in the UAL or CFBAL that were extremely competitive. Platinum I believe. Way more than a couple of the teams were top level. Several of those teams also played in boys. I realize somebody has to lose the majority of the time, so reality is the teams didn't look all that close by records. I am curious to why that is not the case here. Are these teams so far beyond the girls that no team can give them a competitive game?

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by PowerKick on 01/02/17, 04:07 pm

Uncleof05AP wrote: I have a feeling, either way, it really is not going to impact the kids.   I am pretty sure it will not be the difference in them (boy or girl) playing on the national team one day.   Then again, I am idiot according to my wife and children (and just about everyone else).

I remembered an interview with a director from US Soccer who is in charge of national team, she highly recommended to play up even up 2 years for those players who have the caliber and ambition for national team.

Couldn't find that article, please share if you find it. Here is another one.
http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/12/46/playing-up-means-faster-development


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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by AtThePitch on 01/02/17, 04:08 pm

So why doesnt little Suzy or little suzy and her team keep playing against boys when select starts?

Would love to hear an answer on this.
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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by KeeperCommander on 01/02/17, 04:09 pm

AtThePitch wrote:So why doesnt little Suzy or little suzy and her team keep playing against boys when select starts?

Would love to hear an answer on this.
Some teams do.

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by AtThePitch on 01/02/17, 04:11 pm

I know of teams from outside of NTX that do...

can you tell us of a NTX girls team that has qualified for classic boys league and stayed there "for development sake"
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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by KeeperCommander on 01/02/17, 04:14 pm

AtThePitch wrote:I know of teams from outside of NTX that do...

can you tell us of a NTX girls team that has qualified for classic boys league and stayed there "for development sake"
Qualifying for Classic while lofty in standards it may be suicude. I just mean some teams still play against boys in tournaments and perhaps small sided stuff throughout the year. Even in select.

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by AtThePitch on 01/02/17, 04:18 pm

Ok, so please point out a girls team that entered a boys tournament in the select ages? Did we have any girls teams in the boys super copa, girls team in Dallas Cup. I dont mean futsal and winter indoor.

Why would it be suicide... im sure the Kicks 05 team who was contemplating it, could have pulled off QT this year for boys classic league. SRSA 03 of years past, FCD Red 04 of years past, the list goes on... all could have at the very least qualified.

Why not?
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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by Uncleof05AP on 01/02/17, 04:19 pm

PowerKick, I do not disagree with your statement, but I would disagree that playing boys the same age is playing up, especially at a young age.  I would argue that many girl teams are better than many boy teams at a young age.   To be honest, your statement is kind of sexist - just joking.

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by kabe on 01/02/17, 04:21 pm

I think the problem is that you have basically have had two leagues with either Sunday or Saturday play essentially making four leagues.  There are about 8 teams in the 08s that I would say are currently at the top level where the game could go either way.  Eight teams split four ways.  Without coordination from the managers, they have ended up signing up for different leagues/times/tourneys. So most of the time there is 1-2 teams at the top level and 6-7 at the next level where the games just haven't been competitive.  I think the age pure switch also created some additional headache knowing who was going to be at each level in getting the teams a bit more evenly matched.  There have been tournaments where the top teams all sign up and those are great, but they are very rare and most of the times the games are not evenly matched which isn't fair to the winning or losing team.

If "little Suzy" is at the same level when she gets to be that age...she will. If she is getting killed, then we will find a new level. That is the point. The right level. For me that means competitive games win or lose.

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by boilerjoe_96 on 01/02/17, 04:23 pm

AtThePitch wrote:I know of teams from outside of NTX that do...

can you tell us of a NTX girls team that has qualified for classic boys league and stayed there "for development sake"

Has any girls team qualified and played boys classic? I haven't been around long enough to know.
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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by Foxysoccermom on 01/02/17, 04:24 pm

Good point stx and other regions tend to pass by ntx at the older ages when skill and soccer iq take over. [/quote]

Or not ...

04s

3 SOLAR SC CHELSEA PULPANECK (TXN) 35.65
5 DALLAS TEXANS SOUTH (TXN) 35.49
6 FC DALLAS JDL RED (TXN) 35.48

closest STX is 15

03s

1 STING SC DALLAS ECNL (TXN) 38.02
2 SOLAR SC CHELSEA ECNL (TXN) 37.70
6 FC DALLAS ECNL (TXN) 37.14
7 DALLAS TEXANS ECNL (TXN) 37.08

closest STX is 22

02s

15 FC DALLAS ECNL (TXN) 38.31

closest STX is 18

01s

7 FC DALLAS ECNL (TXN) 39.88
14 STING SC DALLAS ECNL (TXN) 39.39
22 SOLAR SC CHELSEA ECNL (TXN) 38.91

closest STX is 41

00s

3 SOLAR SC CHELSEA ECNL (TXN) 40.86

closest STX is 77

[/quote]

Ohhh lil Ernie....do you not think before you post. I said stx and other regions. If you look at the silliness you posted....as you go into the older groups above, there is a trend of fewer teams and lower rankings from ntx. What's more interesting is the flagship fcd is not setting the world on fire in the 04 and 03 age group. Shameful.
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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by AtThePitch on 01/02/17, 04:26 pm

kabe wrote:I think the problem is that you have basically have had two leagues with either Sunday or Saturday play essentially making four leagues.  There are about 8 teams in the 08s that I would say are currently at the top level where the game could go either way.  Eight teams split four ways.  Without coordination from the managers, they have ended up signing up for different leagues/times/tourneys. So most of the time there is 1-2 teams at the top level and 6-7 at the next level where the games just haven't been competitive.  I think the age pure switch also created some additional headache knowing who was going to be at each level in getting the teams a bit more evenly matched.  There have been tournaments where the top teams all sign up and those are great, but they are very rare and most of the times the games are not evenly matched which isn't fair to the winning or losing team.

If "little Suzy" is at the same level when she gets to be that age...she will.  If she is getting killed, then we will find a new level.  That is the point. The right level.  For me that means competitive games win or lose.

And this is where it gets lost... next time your kid is playing in an outdoor match, count the number of times she touches the ball. Go watch an 11v11 game and count the number of times she touches the ball or is directly involved in the play... compare it to a training situation.

development takes places on the training grounds at this stage of the game... not in what you or i find to be a competitive game. The kids she trains against daily make or break her, not who she lines up against on Saturday.

just my opinion.
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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by kabe on 01/02/17, 04:35 pm

I actually agree with you which is why she is on the team she is on and with the coach she is with. However, like most kids, she likes to play games and SHE says she has more fun when the games are close. The games are what motivates her to try harder in the training situations. The number of touches while on the field during a competitive game is much higher than a non-competitive game.

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by Uncleof05AP on 01/02/17, 04:35 pm

PowerKick, I read the article you posted.  It related to DA players playing up.  I am not positive that necessarily relates to eight-year old children.  It could but I am not sure.  In my opinion, if an eight-year old's passion is to play on the national team, I think his or her time would be better spent developing their skills, which really does not necessarily happen when your playing three games a weekend.  I cannot remember the exact figure, but a lucky player might touch the ball four minutes in a game.  Thus, instead of playing games on Saturdays and Sundays, it might be more productive for players to practice one of those days where they can touch the ball for more than an hour if the goal is truly to play on the national team.  In Europe and South America, teams usually play one game a week.  There is a reason for doing so.

Once again, I am all for girl teams playing in boy leagues if that is what they want.

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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by Big Ern on 01/02/17, 04:37 pm

Foxysoccermom wrote:Good point stx and other regions tend to pass by ntx at the older ages when skill and soccer iq take over.

[/quote]

Ohhh lil Ernie....do you not think before you post. I said stx and other regions. If you look at the silliness you posted....as you go into the older groups above, there is a trend of fewer teams and lower rankings from ntx. What's more interesting is the flagship fcd is not setting the world on fire in the 04 and 03 age group. Shameful. [/quote]

Lovin it foxy!  So predictable -- thanks for the reply, and right back at ya --

We all hope you're not pretending that you didn't lead with STX and implied that STX plays with more "skill and soccer iq" than NTX teams (especially the FCD, Solar, Texans "Flagships").

And we'd all love you to let us know how the top FCD 04/03 teams are shameful  Very Happy


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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by KeeperCommander on 01/02/17, 04:48 pm

AtThePitch wrote:Ok, so please point out a girls team that entered a boys tournament in the select ages?  Did we have any girls teams in the boys super copa, girls team in Dallas Cup.  I dont mean futsal and winter indoor.

Why would it be suicide... im sure the Kicks 05 team who was contemplating it, could have pulled off QT this year for boys classic league.  SRSA 03 of years past, FCD Red 04 of years past, the list goes on... all could have at the very least qualified.

Why not?
I didn't mean impossible. Very difficult at best. Sure it could be done. Kicks did play boys in Texans Fall Festival and went to the final.
To set the record straight I think it is imperative that girls play top level talent during the 1-2 years before select and the next couple years as well just from a development standpoint. If they are good enough. If that means playing boys then well.....guess they are playing boys. If boys want to hide behind coach or mommy, that's fine to.


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Re: Why is Primetime discriminating?

Post by Uncleof05AP on 01/02/17, 05:00 pm

Coachdom23, did the boy teams protest it because they did not want to get beat by a bunch of girls?   That seems to be the opinion on this board.  I find that hard to believe, but I am often wrong.   Once again, I have never heard a boy or a parent afraid of being beat by a girl team.  Now, for other reasons, they might not want to play a girl team, but it is not out of fear of being destroyed by the opposite gender.  If anything that is a good thing for a young boy to learn, it prepares him for the rest of his life.

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