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DA, ECNL, LH Solution

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on 31/03/17, 10:25 am

Yes the other options!

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by kick_tha_ball on 31/03/17, 10:27 am

Zizou wrote:Yes the other options!

Yes, options. Piano, violin. Or go run track. You don't have to spend your hard earned cash on soccer.
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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by newbiefornow on 31/03/17, 10:27 am

In my opinion there is no way that all of the DA players could be subsidized. It's going to be on a needs basis. DA will be slightly cheaper than ECNL because US Soccer will subsidize the cost of tournaments and some of the cost of travel.

I can only speak for my own experience but my sense is some kids will be delighted to have a clear reason to focus on their soccer. I think some folks compete for the competition rather than for the reward of "winning". In women's sport that better be the motivation. So if DA has more rigor and more competition some folks will consider it "better".

There is plenty of space in the market for ECNL and DA. An interesting twist may be kids in either private schools or very strong High Schools that choose  ECNL over DA and are demonstrably better than kids in DA. That's going to be a function of the coaches those High Schools hire and the teams they can build. It's kind of the current model for Basketball and track. The best High School players play select and pay for the extra coaching. It will be interesting if a lot of strong players refuse DA offers in preference for High School/ECNL.

This is a very well informed group and a good discussion. Do you folks on the board think Soccer will be different than say Girls Basketball? Will DA make things better or just different? Will it diminish the stronger High School teams in Texas and will that matter ?

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by ForReal on 31/03/17, 10:29 am

Zizou wrote:I'm pretty sure Sting is working internally. Looking at feedback and planning before offering up information that no one has answers to at this point.

You would know far better than I. I'm just surprised they aren't at least marketing it like they do everything else (i.e., their merchandise!).

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on 31/03/17, 10:30 am

kick_tha_ball wrote:
Zizou wrote:Yes the other options!

Yes, options. Piano, violin. Or go run track. You don't have to spend your hard earned cash on soccer.

Those are not free either.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by kick_tha_ball on 31/03/17, 10:33 am

Zizou wrote:
kick_tha_ball wrote:
Zizou wrote:Yes the other options!

Yes, options. Piano, violin. Or go run track. You don't have to spend your hard earned cash on soccer.

Those are not free either.

But you ain't spending $3000+ to participate either.
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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on 31/03/17, 10:33 am

ForReal wrote:
Zizou wrote:I'm pretty sure Sting is working internally. Looking at feedback and planning before offering up information that no one has answers to at this point.

You would know far better than I.   I'm just surprised they aren't at least marketing it like they do everything else (i.e., their merchandise!).

I don't know shit. I just hear that they are in meetings with USSF and their are things that are still un clear.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Zizou on 31/03/17, 10:34 am

kick_tha_ball wrote:
Zizou wrote:
kick_tha_ball wrote:
Zizou wrote:Yes the other options!

Yes, options. Piano, violin. Or go run track. You don't have to spend your hard earned cash on soccer.

Those are not free either.

But you ain't spending  $3000+ to participate either.

Club track is not cheap.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by kick_tha_ball on 31/03/17, 10:38 am

Zizou wrote:
kick_tha_ball wrote:
Zizou wrote:
kick_tha_ball wrote:
Zizou wrote:Yes the other options!

Yes, options. Piano, violin. Or go run track. You don't have to spend your hard earned cash on soccer.

Those are not free either.

But you ain't spending  $3000+ to participate either.

Club track is not cheap.

Then get her some art supplies. You seem to miss every point thrown at you. If all your gonna do if complain about having to pay for someone else's DD to get top level training while yours misses out, then remove yourself from the situation. Otherwise, like I said, sack up and do what you need to do to get your DD what she needs.
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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Big Ern on 31/03/17, 10:42 am

ForReal wrote:
SoccerTexas wrote:It was simply a power grab to start off with so many GDA clubs. They wanted to make travel reasonable but they should have required it to be funded from the start or at least require by year 3 for it to be fully funded or you lose the DA.  No need to start off with so many clubs unless the sole purpose was to break ECNL.  Why start with 4 GDA clubs right out of the gate?  Let the market determine if its needed then expand.

Totally agree.  But will there be 4 GDA clubs to start?  FCD, Solar and Texans all have posted some or a lot of information about it on their sites.  Sting makes no mention of GDA.  Maybe that's just poor planning or marketing?  Maybe it's intentional?  Maybe they are handling it internally with the players already on their ECNL rosters?  I don't know, but I would at least be promoting it.

Right. While Sting have spoken to their teams and parents about having DA next year, they were not present on the latest call with USSDA to discuss roll out. Sting are the only of the four that don't already have a USSDA program and I believe KM is on the ECNL BOD ...

Maybe the writing is on the wall that they will soon, or will eventually, go exclusively ECNL.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Big Ern on 31/03/17, 10:46 am

Zizou wrote:Oh I bet those rec parents are delighted to see their fees increasing.

No need for an increase ... 3,000+ kids each season produce $500k+ gross per year.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Sho'Nuff on 31/03/17, 10:57 am

Zizou wrote:
kick_tha_ball wrote:
Zizou wrote:
kick_tha_ball wrote:
Zizou wrote:Yes the other options!

Yes, options. Piano, violin. Or go run track. You don't have to spend your hard earned cash on soccer.

Those are not free either.

But you ain't spending  $3000+ to participate either.

Club track is not cheap.

Club Track is dirt cheap and most of the "fast" soccer players have below-average speed on the track.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Big Ern on 31/03/17, 11:06 am

Foxysoccermom wrote:
wazup wrote:Good attempt at a deflection

I spoke to someone who was at the meeting where the clubs decided to exclude Kicks.

I have seen FCD Blue players playing for Chris Ring

I have seen Solar Pulp and Arnold players playing for Rodriguez.

Others here have commented on Flannigan doing the same.

If the bigs at the bigs do not care about retaining LHGCL spots, why are they guesting JDL players over to the DI teams?

What big e is missing is the bigs actually care more about the lh teams $$$. That's the money train and they can't afford to lose it.

Hmmm ... ?  So I'm missing it or did I literally just say this exactly (see below).  

"But the primary reason of JDL as an engine of larger clubs was the consolidation of talent at an earlier age, and as a result, more $$$ delivered to support these clubs.  Now I know you hate talking money, and I know you are pretty dense on this so let me help you.  No one here ever said an individual team would make more money due to JDL - that straw man you raised was simply stupid, and honestly beneath you.  

Please enlighten me here ...

And absolutely -- consolidation of talent is exactly the point (talk about dense) ... of course the Clubs want to draw more talent.  However, you're contradicting your own argument -- The JDL is less about $ and more about drawing in solid talent in preparation of the ECNL/USSDA years.  The bigs (all of em) take in plenty of $ at the lower and younger levels."

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by PowerKick on 31/03/17, 11:14 am

BigErn wrote:
Right.  While Sting have spoken to their teams and parents about having DA next year, they were not present on the latest call with USSDA to discuss roll out.  Sting are the only of the four that don't already have a USSDA program and I believe KM is on the ECNL BOD ...

Maybe the writing is on the wall that they will soon, or will eventually, go exclusively ECNL.

The day Sting goes exclusively ECNL, that is the day all their TOP teams will be exploded including their 06 Black team and younger age groups, which will weaken all their ECNL teams and less attractive for all their teams in all age groups.

That alone will make them loss hundreds of good players not just 85 which is about Million dollar or more lose in revenue, eventually make Sting the 2nd tier club.

It is a double-edged sword for all clubs not only Sting, but they have to go DA in order to maintain the current revenue stream.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Bodhisattva on 31/03/17, 11:32 am

PowerKick wrote:
BigErn wrote:
Right.  While Sting have spoken to their teams and parents about having DA next year, they were not present on the latest call with USSDA to discuss roll out.  Sting are the only of the four that don't already have a USSDA program and I believe KM is on the ECNL BOD ...

Maybe the writing is on the wall that they will soon, or will eventually, go exclusively ECNL.

The day Sting goes exclusively ECNL, that is the day all their TOP teams will be exploded including their 06 Black team and younger age groups, which will weaken all their ECNL teams and less attractive for all their teams in all age groups.

That alone will make them loss hundreds of good players not just 85 which is about Million dollar or more lose in revenue, eventually make Sting the 2nd tier club.

It is a double-edged sword for all clubs not only Sting, but they have to go DA in order to maintain the current revenue stream.

The day is nigh... #BlackStar

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Guest on 31/03/17, 11:47 am

PowerKick wrote:
BigErn wrote:
Right.  While Sting have spoken to their teams and parents about having DA next year, they were not present on the latest call with USSDA to discuss roll out.  Sting are the only of the four that don't already have a USSDA program and I believe KM is on the ECNL BOD ...

Maybe the writing is on the wall that they will soon, or will eventually, go exclusively ECNL.

The day Sting goes exclusively ECNL, that is the day all their TOP teams will be exploded including their 06 Black team and younger age groups, which will weaken all their ECNL teams and less attractive for all their teams in all age groups.

That alone will make them loss hundreds of good players not just 85 which is about Million dollar or more lose in revenue, eventually make Sting the 2nd tier club.

It is a double-edged sword for all clubs not only Sting, but they have to go DA in order to maintain the current revenue stream.

To some degree, all 4 of the NTX DA clubs are doing it as a hedge bet.  I get the feeling there's a bit of a spectrum across the clubs with some more willing to go all-in on DA, and some who would strongly prefer to remain with the ECNL status quo.  Consistent with my earlier opinions expressed in this thread, I feel that the next 2-3 years is going to be a feeling out period to see how much influence DA will have on the "Elite" or "Very Good" portion of the NTX market.  If the NTX market shows that enough D1 level college talent prefer the ECNL model, and that in NTX, ECNL still provides a viable path to D1 college soccer, I think you will see 1-2 of the current NTX clubs pull from DA and go back to ECNL only.  Conversely, you will see at least 1, maybe 2 of the DA clubs forego ECNL for DA only.  

Again, we'll see if I'm wrong, but I think ~3 years from now, you will see 2, maybe 3, GDA clubs in NTX and 3-4 ECNL clubs in NTX, with no more than 2 clubs offering both DA and ECNL.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by 5050Ball on 31/03/17, 11:51 am

PowerKick wrote:
BigErn wrote:
Right.  While Sting have spoken to their teams and parents about having DA next year, they were not present on the latest call with USSDA to discuss roll out.  Sting are the only of the four that don't already have a USSDA program and I believe KM is on the ECNL BOD ...

Maybe the writing is on the wall that they will soon, or will eventually, go exclusively ECNL.

The day Sting goes exclusively ECNL, that is the day all their TOP teams will be exploded including their 06 Black team and younger age groups, which will weaken all their ECNL teams and less attractive for all their teams in all age groups.

That alone will make them loss hundreds of good players not just 85 which is about Million dollar or more lose in revenue, eventually make Sting the 2nd tier club.

It is a double-edged sword for all clubs not only Sting, but they have to go DA in order to maintain the current revenue stream.

I'll take that action. The first club to drop DA and focus exclusively on ECNL will win in the end. They'll get first crack at the top players who don't want the restrictions of DA.

ECNL 'across the board' will obviously weaken. However, a smart club will pool the best non-DA talent to create teams that will provide looks to the Power 5.

Also, as said numerous times on this board, there is zero chance DA will remain with 4 clubs in NTX down the road.
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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by SoccerTexas on 31/03/17, 01:27 pm

5050Ball wrote:

I'll take that action.  The first club to drop DA and focus exclusively on ECNL will win in the end.  They'll get first crack at the top players who don't want the restrictions of DA.  

ECNL 'across the board' will obviously weaken.  However, a smart club will pool the best non-DA talent to create teams that will provide looks to the Power 5.  

Also, as said numerous times on this board, there is zero chance DA will remain with 4 clubs in NTX down the road.

I hear you but at this point all 5 ECNL clubs are still stating they will be in ECNL this fall.  How they fill 4 DA and 5 ECNL clubs worth of teams, I guess we will find out in a few months.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Gunners on 31/03/17, 01:48 pm

Beyond the one or maybe two NTX kids per age group (historical avg) who actually get national team call ups/exposure what other benefits (not including satiating a parent's ego) does DA offer.

Rhetorical question...no need to answer.

It's also hard for me to read "DA" and not think of Dumb A$$..go figure.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Guest101 on 31/03/17, 02:06 pm

When has USSF ever had a great idea that worked?  Let's be honest, the reason US Club Soccer, and Elite Club National League exist is because the CLUBS did not like the restrictions that United States grass roots soccer had in place.  The clubs felt they could do it better so they created an environment where CLUBs have control, and to be honest they ran it well.

Enter USSF with a bunch of new changes and restrictions like age chart, playing format, practice to game ratio, coaching education requirements, and not to mention stipulations that prevent players from participating in other sports.  It's as if USSF said "you didn't like our rules the first time?  Watch us tighten our control and offer  a "chance" to make the Women's National Team pool in return."  

History has a way of repeating itself.  USSF knows they made a mistake when they allowed US Club and ECNL to grow as big as they did.  It will be interesting to watch them regain control by rewarding the top 1% of players in the nation.  What do the other 99% have to look forward to?  COLLEGE, which is exactly what ECNL is doubling down on.  This pissing match will weaken both leagues.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by tpitty on 31/03/17, 02:21 pm

Guest101 wrote:
History has a way of repeating itself.  USSF knows they made a mistake when they allowed US Club and ECNL to grow as big as they did.  It will be interesting to watch them regain control by rewarding the top 1% of players in the nation.  What do the other 99% have to look forward to?  COLLEGE, which is exactly what ECNL is doubling down on.  This pissing match will weaken both leagues.

The college players leaving from DA teams who have trained 4 times a week over X number of years will be better prepared, thus improving the college game. Coaches will want those players first.

So while you mention the 1% going to the WNT I presume, the rest of the DA kids will be identified as top selections.

I am a HUGE fan of ECNL, but I don't discount the fact that more focused training with specific curriculum makes kids better. Hence, the top soccer destination colleges will be better.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by SD69 on 31/03/17, 02:44 pm

One thing I haven't heard discussed much is the injury aspect. When these girls, starting at U14, start focusing solely on soccer, who train 4x per week plus games with no other cross training/sports, what will start happening to their bodies? I know boys have the DA, but will girls be able to cope with it as well?
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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by Son_ofa_Pitch on 31/03/17, 02:54 pm

SD69 wrote:One thing I haven't heard discussed much is the injury aspect. When these girls, starting at U14, start focusing solely on soccer, who train 4x per week plus games with no other cross training/sports, what will start happening to their bodies? I know boys have the DA, but will girls be able to cope with it as well?

2 days a week out on the field.
1 day a week of strength and conditioning
1 day a week of mental training (film session), perhaps
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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by tpitty on 31/03/17, 02:59 pm

SD69 wrote:One thing I haven't heard discussed much is the injury aspect. When these girls, starting at U14, start focusing solely on soccer, who train 4x per week plus games with no other cross training/sports, what will start happening to their bodies? I know boys have the DA, but will girls be able to cope with it as well?

I can only say that on the boys side a trainer is widely accessible to all the players, and they do focus on resting the kids. A typical busy soccer parent will feel as though things are slowed down quite a bit, They have been in the hustle and bustle so long that hitting the brakes takes a second to get used too. DA mandates rest and recovery. No back to back, all showcases, etc.

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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by davito on 31/03/17, 03:44 pm

I think most boys DA teams train on the field 4 or 5 times a week. They may spend some portion of a training session on strength and conditioning. Some days may be light skills, tactics or recovery but nearly every session involves the ball somehow.

The coaches understand the need for rest and recovery and factor that into their schedule. This is simplified because the kids don't play other sports. So when the coach gives the kids a break they actually get a break. DA mandates at least 1 rest day per week.

The worst time my son had was when he was playing CL and school sports, basketball, track, cross country. We had continual conflicts and showed up to practices already tired.

DA does not allow more than 1 game per day in tournament play. Overall my experience is that there is less stress on the athlete's body than for the typical Select and high school sports player.

Another feature of DA that I particularly like is the no re-entry subbing rule. It means that many players have to pace themselves through an entire game. The first 20 minutes can be high tempo but then the game settles down. It is no longer a track meet with fresh legs thrown on every 10 minutes. We actually get to witness some skillful passing soccer take place.
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Re: DA, ECNL, LH Solution

Post by KeeperCommander on 31/03/17, 04:05 pm

Zizou wrote:Someone is going to have to fund the GDA.
Mexico is paying for DA. No wait you guys are! lol!

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