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Equal Playing Time For Players ?

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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by Sideline Mom on 16/08/17, 10:17 am

melashbrew wrote:Just my opinion...if a player is "good enough" to be on the team, the player should get some field time. If the player is holding the team back or can't keep up with the rest of the team, I think it is ridiculous for a coach to sign this player knowing they won't ever play. That said, the amount of play time a player gets should be based on merit.

Agreed!
I think there's a difference in rec soccer/ vs competitive soccer. If you are paying to be on a competitive team then I feel it is the coach's duty to only sign quality/ qualified players. This is my biggest concern with newly signing my daughter on a competitive academy team. I see players on her team that frankly- are NOT good. It will be telling to see if the coach is more selective this summer when select tryouts begin. If they sign all existing players from the academy team then our fears will come true- they are money hungry and not picking the best players to round out the team.

On rec- I think you should play everyone. Maybe not an equal amount of time but everyone should get their chance.

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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by dadof3 on 16/08/17, 10:54 am

soccerdivahmom22 wrote:
dadof3 wrote:Ask the coach BEFORE you sign where he projects her on the roster, and hold him to his words. All kids should play SOME or she shouldn't be on that team. If there is a pattern of benching or NO explanation why she is benched, then discuss it with coach. You CAN always move team-may be more expensive or whatever, but if the kid hates soccer, it isn't worth being on that team.

Quick question to add to this conversation, at what age does your DD become responsible for her soccer development.  By that I mean, when do we as parents back away and have DD talk to the coach herself if she is concerned about playing time or what she needs to do to improve and obtain more field time?  

From the first day she puts on cleats...though she may do it initially holding YOUR hand.

Your DD is the FIRST line of communication. She needs to ask whatever question she has and YOU need to coach her to ensure she asks productive questions, understands the answer, and has a plan to "fix" what the coach sees. HOWEVER, your DD shouldn't feel like having to talk to the coach is stressful or that thinking about it keeps her from doing it. Depending on their relationship, YOU may need to stand close and listen as well so that you can support her. I recommend sending a text to coach and saying that DD wants to ask him a question after training and then standing by so that she knows you have her back. IF it is worth a discussion with coach, then it is something that has legs (it seems to be an issue and it is something bothering/affecting your DDs play).

My firm belief is that you should use this opportunity to allow your DD to grow, and one of the best ways is to teach her to have a conversation with an adult (assuming your coach IS an adult). Her confidence will rise when SHE has power over her situation. I feel the same way about school etc.

IF you see that she is doing that, it bears no fruit, and her frustration is rising (but she is doing what she has been tasked with), THEN you become your child's advocate and have the conversation. YOUR conversation IMO should start with, "I know that my DD has talked to you about what you want to see...I want to make sure she is doing the things that YOU feel will help her..." That empowerment keeps the conversation from being an accusation, and will help you coach your DD on how to rectify the situation...IF there is no movement after that, then you need to look for alternative options (leave the team, have a conversation with DOC, etc.).

Of course those are MY assertions and others may disagree. It has worked with my 3 (an 00, and 03 and an 05). All of them are high level players. All of them approach their coaches or teachers if there is any issue. I get to advocate and brag...but they are learning to fight their own battles, and I think it is something that transcends sport. They also know that if an issue is bigger than their conversation, I have their backs.
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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by KeeperCommander on 16/08/17, 11:48 am

Lets stop talking about participation trophies please. Yes everyone on a team should play. No not every player deserves to get equal playing time. There is a reason there are starters and subs. Subs are not necessarily the mop up crew or entitled to or even equal to most starters. Yes there are some exceptions and I know several myself. However lets stop thinking that all these girls are deserving of more minutes just because they are on the team.
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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by 030409SOCCERDAD on 16/08/17, 12:17 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:Lets stop talking about participation trophies please. Yes everyone on a team should play. No not every player deserves to get equal playing time. There is a reason there are starters and subs. Subs are not necessarily the mop up crew or entitled to or even equal to most starters. Yes there are some exceptions and I know several myself. However lets stop thinking that all these girls are deserving of more minutes just because they are on the team.

cheers

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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by dadof3 on 16/08/17, 05:00 pm

KeeperCommander wrote:Lets stop talking about participation trophies please. Yes everyone on a team should play. No not every player deserves to get equal playing time. There is a reason there are starters and subs. Subs are not necessarily the mop up crew or entitled to or even equal to most starters. Yes there are some exceptions and I know several myself. However lets stop thinking that all these girls are deserving of more minutes just because they are on the team.

Perhaps this wasn't directed at my response, but if so, I must have missed where someone advocated for participation trophies. I answered a direct question about when a DD is to approach a coach to talk. I think pretty much everyone agrees that in select soccer:

1) If you can't find the field you are on the wrong team.
2) Playing time should be offered to all, but some players deserve/earn more.
3) If your DD is unhappy with her PT, then ask the coach why...
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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by ElClassico on 16/08/17, 07:43 pm

So let me get this straight...

Little 11 year old Suzy gets told to man up and deal with this playing time crap herself because she's old enough to deal with this coach's BS even though both her parents fell for his DA line like starving founders.

So coach 1 says that she's missed practice 10 times, doesn't work on her own, can't pass, can't dribble and can't shoot. 

Coach 2 says because she's not good enough and she needs to work harder. However he's really got no clue as in reality she's just as good. He just made a decision at some point and is too stubborn to change.

Coach 3 tells her he is the coach and she shouldn't question him.

Coach 4 says everything 1, 2, and 3 says but plays other girls who are worse because they're friends or their mom is hot.

Coach 5 actually takes time and points out deficiencies in her game and promises playing time if she can improve. She believes him because she's seen it before.

So my question is how do you think your Preteen DD will respond to coaches 1-4?

And how many coach 5's actually exisit in NTX?
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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by KeeperCommander on 16/08/17, 09:51 pm

ElClassico wrote:So let me get this straight...

Little 11 year old Suzy gets told to man up and deal with this playing time crap herself because she's old enough to deal with this coach's BS even though both her parents fell for his DA line like starving founders.

So coach 1 says that she's missed practice 10 times, doesn't work on her own, can't pass, can't dribble and can't shoot. 

Coach 2 says because she's not good enough and she needs to work harder. However he's really got no clue as in reality she's just as good. He just made a decision at some point and is too stubborn to change.

Coach 3 tells her he is the coach and she shouldn't question him.

Coach 4 says everything 1, 2, and 3 says but plays other girls who are worse because they're friends or their mom is hot.

Coach 5 actually takes time and points out deficiencies in her game and promises playing time if she can improve. She believes him because she's seen it before.

So my question is how do you think your Preteen DD will respond to coaches 1-4?

And how many coach 5's actually exisit in NTX?
It's not how many coach 5's there are. The question is whether they are still in the game to get to coach 5. That's where the parents check their ego and place their DD in appropriate spot.
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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by KeeperCommander on 16/08/17, 09:56 pm

dadof3 wrote:
KeeperCommander wrote:Lets stop talking about participation trophies please. Yes everyone on a team should play. No not every player deserves to get equal playing time. There is a reason there are starters and subs. Subs are not necessarily the mop up crew or entitled to or even equal to most starters. Yes there are some exceptions and I know several myself. However lets stop thinking that all these girls are deserving of more minutes just because they are on the team.

Perhaps this wasn't directed at my response, but if so, I must have missed where someone advocated for participation trophies. I answered a direct question about when a DD is to approach a coach to talk. I think pretty much everyone agrees that in select soccer:

1) If you can't find the field you are on the wrong team.
2) Playing time should be offered to all, but some players deserve/earn more.
3) If your DD is unhappy with her PT, then ask the coach why...
Not directed at your post. Just the general feeling about this thread regarding playing time for all players made me think of participation trophies.
I guess all employees of businesses should be paid the same too since they were good enough to be hired.
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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by db10 on 16/08/17, 10:15 pm

Dude, you're equating 11 year olds playing pay to play soccer to adults in the workforce? Come on...

I agree participation trophies suck but not everything in a girls childhood needs to be a lesson about the harsh realities of life. Maybe if coaches spent less time worrying about being the next Alex Ferguson an environment of development for all girls would actually happen.

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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by KeeperCommander on 16/08/17, 10:31 pm

That isn't nearly as absurd as the playing time debate that is being discussed. Plus not trying to say it's the same however if you think one is insane then by rule you must think the other is.
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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by Disposessed on 17/08/17, 01:09 am

Y'all can talk "should" all you want. I bet everyone of you expect equal playing time for an equal amount of $$$. And you should as a customer. There is a life lesson. Never met a parent yet that didn't expect it. Youth pay-to-play is just a service and don't make it out to be more than it is. When your DD is playing at the privilege of someone that is not beholden to your money, like at school or pros, then you should have no expectations.
Even at the DA level you are doing your DD a disservice if you don't expect 30-40%. The team is mismanaged if the superstars can play a whole game without taking a break.

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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by KeeperCommander on 17/08/17, 09:50 am

Disposessed wrote:Y'all can talk "should" all you want.  I bet everyone of you expect equal playing time for an equal amount of $$$.  And you should as a customer. 
Ok then Mr Wizard. What about those parents that are subsidizing a player or two in the form of a scholarship? Do their kids get more playing time because they are paying more?
Nope. So paying the same doesn't entitle anyone to anything. They must earn it.
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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by goscore! on 17/08/17, 10:12 am

Easy: if your kid is a top player then NO! There shouldn't be equal playing time b/c my kid is so good she deserves more (maybe it's worded nicely like: she trains more, works harder, whatever, same bottom line).

If your kid is one of the weaker ones, then absolutely! Playing time must be fair because... I pay, she's trying her hardest, we've been on the team longer or get to the field earlier...whatever.

Soccer parent 101

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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by SoccerDad75070 on 17/08/17, 01:40 pm

Ding Ding Ding

If there was not an expectation for their kids, parents would not be one of the major problems with the sport and system.

As long as its a pay (a lot) to play system, you should have an expectation for your payment and efforts. You should not expect equal, but you should expect fair. However, this being 2017, we can have no expectation of reasonable thinking from most.

Now the last bit about the superstars playing every minute is right on. That does not make the team better, limits their development, and does not allow those that do not play to improve. All players should get time at different positions and all players should get rest. Players can only really improve if they get to play, and playing in different roles is how they improve the most.

Disposessed wrote:Y'all can talk "should" all you want.  I bet everyone of you expect equal playing time for an equal amount of $$$.  And you should as a customer.  There is a life lesson.  Never met a parent yet that didn't expect it.  Youth pay-to-play is just a service and don't make it out to be more than it is.  When your DD is playing at the privilege of someone that is not beholden to your money, like at school or pros, then you should have no expectations.
Even at the DA level you are doing your DD a disservice if you don't expect 30-40%.  The team is mismanaged if the superstars can play a whole game without taking a break.  

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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by KeeperCommander on 17/08/17, 03:27 pm

SoccerDad75070 wrote:Ding Ding Ding

If there was not an expectation for their kids, parents would not be one of the major problems with the sport and system.

As long as its a pay (a lot) to play system, you should have an expectation for your payment and efforts. You should not expect equal, but you should expect fair. However, this being 2017, we can have no expectation of reasonable thinking from most.

Now the last bit about the superstars playing every minute is right on. That does not make the team better, limits their development, and does not allow those that do not play to improve. All players should get time at different positions and all players should get rest. Players can only really improve if they get to play, and playing in different roles is how they improve the most.

Disposessed wrote:Y'all can talk "should" all you want.  I bet everyone of you expect equal playing time for an equal amount of $$$.  And you should as a customer.  There is a life lesson.  Never met a parent yet that didn't expect it.  Youth pay-to-play is just a service and don't make it out to be more than it is.  When your DD is playing at the privilege of someone that is not beholden to your money, like at school or pros, then you should have no expectations.
Even at the DA level you are doing your DD a disservice if you don't expect 30-40%.  The team is mismanaged if the superstars can play a whole game without taking a break.  
You should never have an expectation to play just because you are paying. Why? Because everyone is paying. Now you have to look at talent. Susie is better than Stacy so Susie will get more minutes. Practice, work ethic and yes attendance all come into play of course. Not paying though. Paying just gets you in the door, the rest is up to the kid.
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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by bwgophers on 17/08/17, 05:29 pm

Field player problems... Rolling Eyes

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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by db10 on 18/08/17, 08:50 am

Shouldn't expectations of playing time be in tune with the level of the team? Let's be honest, giving player #16 playing time on a D3 team is a bit different than expecting it on a DA team. Maybe we should stop thinking every team in NTX is on the verge of something big and every result is a big deal.

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Re: Equal Playing Time For Players ?

Post by KeeperCommander on 18/08/17, 10:28 am

db10 wrote:Shouldn't expectations of playing time be in tune with the level of the team? Let's be honest, giving player #16 playing time on a D3 team is a bit different than expecting it on a DA team. Maybe we should stop thinking every team in NTX is on the verge of something big and every result is a big deal.
Nobody probably knows or wants to admit that their kid is #16 on the depth chart. I am sure that there are signs that they are missing. However, one argument feeds into another it seems. For example we have discussed at great lengths where a player should play (i.e. a top team, mid level or bottom), but that feeds directly into how much playing time they would or could be receiving if they were on a correlating team to skill level. You are right though, #16 on a top team should not expect top minutes if they are of mid level team skill. Common sense.
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