Ranking/Schedules for QT

I wanted to ask a question of more seasoned soccer parents. Who actually puts together the schedule for the 03 QT, and how do the pair the teams? Do they use the current FBS rankings or some other formula?

Gophers?

I'll put together a full detailed rundown on the process as I best understand it, but that will take a little bit.

For now, the simple answers are...

Lake Highlands Girls Classic League has a "seeding committee" that will be responsible for determining the seedings for the QT. Once the teams are seeded, there are some general format rules that LHGCL follows that will determine the pairings for the 1st and 2nd weekend of the QT.

The QT seeding is a subjective committee process, much like the NCAA basketball tournament seeding. To the best of my knowledge, the seeding committee does NOT take into account FBR, or any other kind of ranking system in it's seeding process. The have a long track record with seeding their QT and generally do a very good job with it. However, every year, there are invariably a few "head scratchers" that get folks on the forum all worked up.

The committee has always used the results of Tut and the Lightning tourneys along with a healthy dose of "local knowledge". Of course, there can be a surprise or two in the mix, but generally, the top seedings are pretty accurate. It's not like there are a lot of secrets in this thing.

Disclaimer #1: Read on at your own risk. I am not responsible if you start mumbling incoherently or your head explodes after reading this post in its entirety.

Disclaimer #2: I am not associated with LHGCL in any way, nor do I have any direct knowledge of the inner workings of the seeding committee. Information regarding seeding is based on public statements made by the seeding chairman at the QT manager's meeting and discussions I've had with several "knowledgeable" forum members over the past 3 years.

The QT format information is based directly on how the past 3 years of QT have been set-up, and assuming that LHGCL will follow the same format for the '03's. LHGCL has historically posted the exact details of how the current year's QT will run on their website 1-2 weeks in advance of the start of the QT.


QT Seeding:

As Gunner9 stated, you will see Lake Highlands reps out watching games at the primary July tournaments, most notably King TUT and Puma Cup. They will use their observation from these games, and will also get the opinions of various people from the NTX soccer community that they know and respect (i.e. various DOC’s, or long-time coaches in NTX, etc.). To my knowledge, any rankings and/or opinions posted the forum mean diddly-squat when it comes to QT seeding. Also, to my knowledge, there is minimal consideration given to tournament/league results from prior to July 1st, as rosters can change significantly between the Spring and signing day. Don’t bother trying to predict the QT seeding. Overall, it will be pretty good, but there are always some head scratchers and plenty of complaints.

QT Format:

Typically, somewhere between 40-50 teams apply and are accepted to participate in the LHGCL QT. To give a general idea of how the QT will be set-up, I will show an example for a 48 team QT below:

48 teams would be split into twelve 4-Team Pools, using a standard serpentine method from the seeding as follows:



In general, the seeding committee will make minor adjustments to the seeding such that teams from the same club are not placed in the same pool for week 1 of the QT. Each team will play the other 3 teams in its pool. 10 pt. scoring system used (6 pts. for a W, 3 pts. for a tie, 0 pts. for a loss, 1 pt. for each goal scored up to a max. of 3 in a single game, 1 pt for a shutout).

The 12 Pool winners from week #1 qualify for the 20 team U11 D1 “Supergroup” and are done playing.

The 4th place finishers with the X lowest point totals are eliminated from the QT after round 1. X will usually be the number of teams required to reduce the # of remaining teams to 28. In the case of a 48 team QT, X will be 8 teams (48 – 12 – 8 = 28).

The remaining 28 teams will proceed to week 2 of the QT, and seven 4-team pools will be formed based on the results from week 1 play as follows (where “L2” = the week 1 Pool L 2nd place team, based on week 1 points scored). The 4th place teams may get shifted between pools if needed to avoid any week 1 rematches in week 2.



Points do NOT carry over from week 1 to week 2. In week 2, each team again plays the other 3 teams in their pool, using the same 10 point system. The 7 week 2 pool winners qualify for the 20 team U11 D1 Supergroup. In addition, in the 48 team scenario, the 2nd place team with the highest point total will also qualify for the 20 team D1 Supergroup. The remaining 6 2nd place teams from week 2 + the 4 3rd place teams with the highest point total will qualify for U11 D3. The remaining 3 3rd place teams, and all 4th place teams from week 2 are eliminated.

Now, the 48 team example I gave above is a general guide. Based on the actual # of teams that apply and are accepted for the QT, the # of week 1 brackets and the placement of the seeds can vary.

Example 2: The ’01 QT had 43 teams. Week 1 was ten 4-team pools and one 3-team pool. In that case, they did straight serpentine seeding with Pool A as the 3-team pool with seeds 1, 22, & 23. All 3 teams from Pool A knew going in to week 1, that at worst case, they were going to make it to week #2. 11 week 1 pool winners qualified for D1 Supergroup. 5 4th place teams with lowest point totals were eliminated after week 1. Seven 4-team pools in week 2. 7 Week 2 pool winners + 2 2nd place teams with highest point totals qualified for D1 Supergroup. Remaining 5 2nd place teams + 5 3rd place teams with highest point totals qualified for D3.

Example #3: The ’02 QT had 45 teams. Week 1 was nine 4-team pools + three 3-team pools. Top 24 seeds were done via regular serpentine method, but seed #25 was placed in Pool D instead of Pool A, and the serpentine progressed from there such that the bottom 3 seeds (#43, 44, 45) ended up in 3-Team Pools A, B, & C and were treated as #4 seeds (in other words, Pools A, B, & C didn’t have a #3 seed in them). 12 Week 1 Pool winners qualified for D1 Supergroup. The 3 last placed teams from the 3-Team Pools + the 9 last placed teams from the 4-Team pools were evaluated on a points/per game basis, and the 5 teams with the lowest points/game totals were eliminated. Remaining 28 teams place in seven 4-team pools in week 2. 7 Week 2 Pools winners + 2nd place team with highest week 2 point total qualified for D1 supergroup. Remaining 6 2nd place teams + 4 3rd place teams with highest point totals qualified for D3.

Thank you so much Gophers for explaining that...much appreciated

Anyone else?

LOL. Did you type all if that BWG?

Thanks Gophers, that's great information. I would assume all the teams eliminated from LHGCL would then go through similar tournaments for Plano Premier and then FW/Arlington?

RightWingDad wrote:Thanks Gophers, that's great information. I would assume all the teams eliminated from LHGCL would then go through similar tournaments for Plano Premier and then FW/Arlington?

As I understand it, PPL and APL are "placement" tournaments, not "qualifying" tournaments. Those tournaments will determine whether a team plays in D1 of those leagues, or a lower division, but will not result in a team being denied entry into the league. Participation is optional, and I believe that each of the past couple of years, PPL has given 1 or 2 D1 byes at their discretion to teams that just missed out on qualifying for LHGCL, without requiring them play in the placement tourney.

Not sure about APL.

Hopefully I'll not have to ask you to check up on APL ;-). If we have to play deep in to August I'll be wishing we lived in California climates.

Will also have LH representatives come to friendlies/scrimmages during summer to observe playing as well.

In my opinion, the get it right about 90%. But if you are the last ones in say 15-20 it is a very rough year. Rarely if ever to those clubs make D1 the next year.

Yes, but doesn't it guarantee at least 3 years in LH?

soccerdad1969 wrote:Yes, but doesn't it guarantee at least 3 years in LH?

Not always, if you finish 19&20 in the "supergroup" you are in D3 the next year. You could easily be out in 2 years if you don't rebound from a year of constant drubbing. The 01 teams that finished 19&20 last season are both on the bubble of getting the boot from D3 this year.

Thanks. Didn't bother to check LH relegation/promotion rules.

The LHGCL Seeding Committee will evaluate your teams performance during the month of July 2013.
If you have a friendly or scrimmage...invite the U11 Commissioners out to your event.

LHGCL does not use FBR or any other League rankings.
July 1, 2013 starts a new year of Select Soccer for all.
Players leave one team to join another...new teams are formed...some teams fold...etc.
You all have a clean slate July 1 in the eyes of LHGCL.

Make sure you sign up for Puma Cup or King Tut.
The U11 Commissioners and Seeding Committee members will be at Puma Cup and King Tut watching your games and evaluating your teams.

soccerj wrote:The LHGCL Seeding Committee will evaluate your teams performance during the month of July 2013.
If you have a friendly or scrimmage...invite the U11 Commissioners out to your event.

LHGCL does not use FBR or any other League rankings.
July 1, 2013 starts a new year of Select Soccer for all.
Players leave one team to join another...new teams are formed...some teams fold...etc.
You all have a clean slate July 1 in the eyes of LHGCL.

Make sure you sign up for Puma Cup or King Tut.
The U11 Commissioners and Seeding Committee members will be at Puma Cup and King Tut watching your games and evaluating your teams.

So bottom line as I read it is if your team is planning to attempt to qualify for LH, then the King Tut / Puma are the most important games you will play outside of qualifying weekend. This is good information for those of us new to the game.

Is it legal by Lake Highland rules for a team skip qualifying at their own age bracket and instead enter the qualifying bracket for a year up? For example, an 03 team deciding to enter the 01 or 02 age bracket for qualifying for D3 at 01 or 02 level? I heard someone talking about this possibility but I didn't think it was legal?

Norman Dale wrote:

soccerj wrote:The LHGCL Seeding Committee will evaluate your teams performance during the month of July 2013.
If you have a friendly or scrimmage...invite the U11 Commissioners out to your event.

LHGCL does not use FBR or any other League rankings.
July 1, 2013 starts a new year of Select Soccer for all.
Players leave one team to join another...new teams are formed...some teams fold...etc.
You all have a clean slate July 1 in the eyes of LHGCL.

Make sure you sign up for Puma Cup or King Tut.
The U11 Commissioners and Seeding Committee members will be at Puma Cup and King Tut watching your games and evaluating your teams.

So bottom line as I read it is if your team is planning to attempt to qualify for LH, then the King Tut / Puma are the most important games you will play outside of qualifying weekend. This is good information for those of us new to the game.

They also look at scrimmages during that time, you just need to let the league office know when and where.

hombre wrote:Is it legal by Lake Highland rules for a team skip qualifying at their own age bracket and instead enter the qualifying bracket for a year up? For example, an 03 team deciding to enter the 01 or 02 age bracket for qualifying for D3 at 01 or 02 level? I heard someone talking about this possibility but I didn't think it was legal?

Probably not an entire team. individual players (how many?) could potentially skip if they were accepted onto an 02 team after July 31. Don't think division would matter - a player just has to make the team.

I believe that is possible for the entire team to just enter the challenge tournament for D3. It doesn't make any sense and would be the dumbest decision ever but definitely possible.

turftoe9 wrote:

Norman Dale wrote:

soccerj wrote:The LHGCL Seeding Committee will evaluate your teams performance during the month of July 2013.
If you have a friendly or scrimmage...invite the U11 Commissioners out to your event.

LHGCL does not use FBR or any other League rankings.
July 1, 2013 starts a new year of Select Soccer for all.
Players leave one team to join another...new teams are formed...some teams fold...etc.
You all have a clean slate July 1 in the eyes of LHGCL.

Make sure you sign up for Puma Cup or King Tut.
The U11 Commissioners and Seeding Committee members will be at Puma Cup and King Tut watching your games and evaluating your teams.

So bottom line as I read it is if your team is planning to attempt to qualify for LH, then the King Tut / Puma are the most important games you will play outside of qualifying weekend. This is good information for those of us new to the game.

They also look at scrimmages during that time, you just need to let the league office know when and where.

I have seen on the boys side of things where the absolute top teams have skiped the late tournaments

I can see a team like SRSA not having to worry about it.

yeah it's usually the top couple of teams