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Concerns about Composite/Champion’s League - Page 2 Pixel
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Concerns about Composite/Champion’s League

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Post by Teufel Hunden 22/06/16, 02:48 pm

Great explanations and opinions on the Composite stuff by earlier posters...however, I still have a few questions / points / concerns with this new environment that is coming upon us.

I think it is all great that composite rosters and ECNL rosters will have the "flexibility" to move players "up" from Composite and move players "down" from ECNL creating a competitive environment. The question that I have regarding my statement, is How real will it be? How will it actually work in reality? In normal circumstances (before this Composite stuff). you have dual rostered players; these players "technically" were on the bubble, project type players that by exposing them with better training (assuming they trained with ECNL at least part of the time) and more playing time with the second team (normally the LH D1 team) they may have a chance to step on the ECNL field. However, from what I have seen and by talking to other parents most dual rostered players don't.

1- How big are the composite rosters? Some players have been sold the composite spot with the idea that they could possibly play in ECNL games; It may be true for a player or two that are truly on the bubble as I explained above, but what about the rest of the team? Yes you are closer to ECNL but you are NOT ECNL...
2- The three LH teams invited to the Champions League will not be the same teams that got them there. Most of those players would have already been (or have been by now) gobbled up by the 5 composite teams that need to be formed by the ECNL clubs. So when a composite team plays a LH team in the Champions league I do not expect to see a very competitive game
3- Using my previous point as a Segway; Although briefly mentioned in other threads, the impact that the new champions league will have on the "regular" LH league from a quality perspective, in my opinion will be great for this coming LH season, aside from the bigger clubs (I am mostly referring to the bigger 3), all other clubs are struggling to field quality players to for their LH D1, D2 and D3 teams and avoid losing their team/club bye due to players being offered composite spots. These players are coming from somewhere, and I will go on a limb (expect some backlash) to state that these are players landing D1 / D2 spots that otherwise would have NOT in normal circumstances. As a sub-point, from what I have seen by attending several tryout events at several clubs, the talent pool range for composite is very wide, meaning that there are players that should stay back and strengthen the LH D1/D2/D3 teams and getting better by playing versus sitting on the composite team bench....repeating my point above, composite is NOT ECNL nor ECNL lite as another poster indicated.
4- Back to the composite item; I am afraid that once contracts are signed and the true understanding on how YOUR player will be impacted, I think that there will be may unhappy players/ parents due to the fact that the "opportunities" offered by accepting a composite spot may not be there as initially thought with the exception for the few players that will truly benefit....at the end, maybe that is what it is for; to have a vehicle (composite / Champions league) to keep / retain an extended pool of players that can be groomed and used as needed, but IMHO, very far from the extent to which players and parents are led to believe.

All above are strictly my thoughts and opinions (maybe a little scatter-shooting). I am just another dad that is trying to understand the reality that is coming our (my) way. I am not a conspirator, but the lack of formal sanctioning body type of information and ambiguity, in my opinion is by design. I have no proof or anything indicating such a thing, this is plainly just how I feel. scratch

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Post by Guest 22/06/16, 03:31 pm

Good points Devil Dog!

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Post by TatonkaBurger 22/06/16, 03:31 pm

Well since everyone is sharing their humble opinions and we all have one, here is mine:
 
Champions League is going to be big, much bigger than JDL.  

The reason is that NTX soccer is all about winning and a league that doesn't have standings and doesn't keep score is not as appealing to this group (us).  Without actual results, how does a coach show how great he is.  Also, with the emphasis on fluid rosters and the promises that every big 5 club is making about the opportunities to play on each team to our sweet DDs, it appears that JDL just might be for development.  Or it will end up that way because the games won't matter as much as they will in Champions League.

Champions League will be like old LHGCL D1, with standings and ultimately, bragging rights.  That is the coliseum and the pit of lions that we all live for.  It is sad but it is the truth.
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Post by SantaFe 22/06/16, 03:32 pm

I am not that stupid! Besides, cookies have nothing to do with what I see on the website. You should have tried "buffer" or "proxy site". wrote:

wow! what a thoughtful and considerate response to someone who was just offering to help out.

it never ceases to amaze me what kind of people you run into on this site.

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Post by go99 22/06/16, 05:23 pm

SantaFe wrote:

wow! what a thoughtful and considerate response to someone who was just offering to help out.

it never ceases to amaze me what kind of people you run into on this site.

actually cookies can affect what you see on a website depending on how it was built the stored info can be used to adjust content but that's waaaay off topic and not even the point
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Post by Guest 22/06/16, 06:32 pm

Teufel Hunden wrote:Great explanations and opinions on the Composite stuff by earlier posters...however, I still have a few questions / points / concerns with this new environment that is coming upon us.

I think it is all great that composite rosters and ECNL rosters will have the "flexibility" to move players "up" from Composite and move players "down" from ECNL creating a competitive environment. The question that I have regarding my statement, is How real will it be? How will it actually work in reality? In normal circumstances (before this Composite stuff). you have dual rostered players; these players "technically" were on the bubble, project type players that by exposing them with better training (assuming they trained with ECNL at least part of the time) and more playing time with the second team (normally the LH D1 team) they may have a chance to step on the ECNL field. However, from what I have seen and by talking to other parents most dual rostered players don't.

1- How big are the composite rosters? Some players have been sold the composite spot with the idea that they could possibly play in ECNL games; It may be true for a player or two that are truly on the bubble as I explained above, but what about the rest of the team? Yes you are closer to ECNL but you are NOT ECNL...
2- The three LH teams invited to the Champions League will not be the same teams that got them there. Most of those players would have already been (or have been by now) gobbled up by the 5 composite teams that need to be formed by the ECNL clubs. So when a composite team plays a LH team in the Champions league I do not expect to see a very competitive game
3- Using my previous point as a Segway; Although briefly mentioned in other threads, the impact that the new champions league will have on the "regular" LH league from a quality perspective, in my opinion will be great for this coming LH season, aside from the bigger clubs (I am mostly referring to the bigger 3), all other clubs are struggling to field quality players to for their LH D1, D2 and D3 teams and avoid losing their team/club bye due to players being offered composite spots. These players are coming from somewhere, and I will go on a limb (expect some backlash) to state that these are players landing D1 / D2 spots that otherwise would have NOT in normal circumstances. As a sub-point, from what I have seen by attending several tryout events at several clubs, the talent pool range for composite is very wide, meaning that there are players that should stay back and strengthen the LH D1/D2/D3 teams and getting better by playing versus sitting on the composite team bench....repeating my point above, composite is NOT ECNL nor ECNL lite as another poster indicated.
4- Back to the composite item; I am afraid that once contracts are signed and the true understanding on how YOUR player will be impacted, I think that there will be may unhappy players/ parents due to the fact that the "opportunities" offered by accepting a composite spot may not be there as initially thought with the exception for the few players that will truly benefit....at the end, maybe that is what it is for; to have a vehicle (composite / Champions league) to keep / retain an extended pool of players that can be groomed and used as needed, but IMHO, very far from the extent to which players and parents are led to believe.

All above are strictly my thoughts and opinions (maybe a little scatter-shooting). I am just another dad that is trying to understand the reality that is coming our (my) way. I am not a conspirator, but the lack of formal sanctioning body type of information and ambiguity, in my opinion is by design. I have no proof or anything indicating such a thing, this is plainly just how I feel. scratch

Regarding items 1 & 4, caveat emptor applies just like it has applied every July 1st since U11. Those that do their homework and have an objective view of their DD's abilities will exponentially increase their chances of being satisfied with the choices they make compared to those that don't. The new leagues don't fundamentally change any of that.

Regarding item #2, my personal opinion is that you are making some overly sweeping generalizations that won't be as true as you think they are.

Regarding item #3, I agree with you and it's only logical. The majority of the players going to play in ChL will almost certainly be coming from the D1 ranks. So it's only logical that the overall level of play in LH D1 (with trickle down effect to D2 & D3) will drop, just as it did when ENCL came on the scene.

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Post by jogobonito06 22/06/16, 06:52 pm

TatonkaBurger wrote:... it appears that JDL just might be for development.  Or it will end up that way because the games won't matter as much as they will in Champions League.


Not keeping score will do nothing for development. Some of the same knock-you-off-the-ball, dump and chase coaches have already been named JDL coaches. Doubtful that "style" came simply from a need to win. It's what they know.

Also about 30 minutes into the very first JDL game, the mad texters will be typing away to all those jonesing for little girl's soccer results. And without standings how will you know which team to move little Mia to?

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Post by abc000 22/06/16, 07:29 pm

Going with coach and club had planned on being with before the alphabet soup parade began.... the fact now DD's will be playing JDL and Ch League is a bonus. If things go wonky will still be happy with top flight coaching and likeminded, hardworking DD's as teammates.

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Post by AtThePitch 22/06/16, 07:40 pm

JDL and Champions League are not for the same age groups..

JDL = U11-U13

Champions League = U14 and up....
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Post by abc000 22/06/16, 07:53 pm

Multiple kiddos.... Younger in JDL, high schooler in ChampLeague.

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Post by Vikarius_lee 22/06/16, 09:39 pm

I'm hearing that ECNL composite for our organization will consist of ECNL players that are already committed . It will help families that wish for a reduction in travel expenses for showcase tournaments. Yet still play at a higher ECNL level. The composite team will also have ECNL bench players and dual rostered ECNL players that are not predominantly on the top 18 dress list (ECNL non- dressers). The "Compositeers" also provide a player pool to supplement the ECNL squad as DA is forthcoming. It is projected that most if not all of our ECNL starters will join the Developmental Academy, depending on who is named as the head coach.
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Post by SD69 22/06/16, 10:27 pm

Wonder what % players who COULD play DA will WANT to play DA with the extra time commitment and no other sport activities allowed?
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Post by Guest 22/06/16, 10:29 pm

Vikarius_lee wrote:I'm hearing that ECNL composite for our organization will consist of ECNL players that are already committed . It will help families that wish for a reduction in travel expenses for showcase tournaments. Yet still play at a higher ECNL level. The  composite team will also have ECNL bench players and dual rostered ECNL players that are not predominantly on the top 18 dress list (ECNL non- dressers). The "Compositeers" also provide a player pool to supplement the ECNL squad as DA is forthcoming. It is projected that most if not all of our ECNL starters will join the Developmental Academy, depending on who is named as the head coach.

Well then your DD must play for either the Texans or FCD by the use of your grammer. Cause they are the only two guaranted to get the DA as it stands now.

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Post by Guest 22/06/16, 10:31 pm

SD69 wrote:Wonder what % players who COULD play DA will WANT to play DA with the extra time commitment and no other sport activities allowed?
Word on the street is the DA will allow other sports only the first couple of years after it is instituted.

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Post by AtThePitch 22/06/16, 10:41 pm

Only permitted for a player already in high school when DA is started.

That is not rumor... that was stated repeatedly in the conference calls they did for the public.
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Post by Vikarius_lee 23/06/16, 01:37 am

Yes my DD plays for either Dallas Texans or FC Dallas. She's not a,"Silver Spooner". She came from a D3 team that failed to make a year ago. This is our first year with ECNL. Great coaching plus ODP put her in an excellent position to try out and start for an excellent coach and program. LH was a great foundation. I'm curious as to how other organizations are treating the ECNL composite aspect.
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Post by andy_soccer 23/06/16, 12:28 pm

Few questions from the newbie aka clueless.  

Is Champion League players signing on July 1st like LH?
I have heard ECNL players would have to sign by August 1st. Is that true?
What would be the maximum roster size for Champions and ECNL? Is that different by age group?  

I know Champions league rules and regulations are all up in the air? But what have you heard?
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Post by Guest 23/06/16, 02:38 pm

andy_soccer wrote:Few questions from the newbie aka clueless.  

Is Champion League players signing on July 1st like LH?
I have heard ECNL players would have to sign by August 1st. Is that true?
What would be the maximum roster size for Champions and ECNL? Is that different by age group?  

I know Champions league rules and regulations are all up in the air? But what have you heard?

Don't know what the "official" signing day guidelines are for ChL or ECNL, but the deadline for submitting bye fees and preliminary rosters for LHGCL is July 6th, so I would expect that the clubs would have the majority of their roster decisions in place before that date hits, as decisions on ChL/ECNL vs. LHGCL spots could impact LHGCL roster submission.

Frankly, roster rules are irrelevant unless the max roster size is limited to <18, which I doubt will be the case.  The far more important rules are game day roster size, and what the substitution rules will be.

Based on my info, game day rosters will be a standard 18 (same as both LHGCL and ECNL in the U14-U18 age groups).  Heard that substitution rules haven't been finalized, but the ECNL clubs are pushing for similar substitution rules to ECNL (a player can't re-enter in the same half once they've been subbed out).

If you are considering an ECNL or ChL spot, forget about what the roster size rules are and find out/pay attention to how many girls are going to be in the combined ECNL/ChL training pool(s), that will NOT be dual-rostered with an LHGCL team.  If the numbers exceed 36-38, you might want to start asking some direct questions to the coaches, because you're looking at a scenario where, if everyone is healthy, there will be some healthy girls that won't be on an active game day roster.  Even then, if your DD is not clearly within the top 28-30, you probably need to start asking yourself if she's going to get enough PT to make it worthwhile, vs. playing on an LHGCL team and/or at a different club.

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Post by oldboot 23/06/16, 02:46 pm

Nervous parents, please relax.  I have no doubt that the clubs offering spots in a league that doesn't actually yet exist, are telling you everything you need to know right now. The important thing is to focus on your job today, so you can write those checks and sign those contracts next Friday.



Last edited by oldboot on 23/06/16, 03:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by go99 23/06/16, 03:00 pm

You act like that's any different than CL
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Post by Teufel Hunden 04/08/16, 01:58 pm

What is going on with the Champions League? I am surprised that not much information or questioning is taking place on this forum.

LH has not provided any guidelines / rules on how this new league will operate (League start, LH team invitation / relegation, LH teams playing 2 leagues or only CHL, etc.). In the mean time, many players / families opted to tryout / be part of a Champions League team with the hope and promise of being "closer" and/or to be noticed for an future ECNL or DA spot leaving the LH D1/D2/D3 with some teams "still looking" for 1 or 2 "quality" players. I know of at least 3 players of big clubs where re-evaluating their "composite" team options all the way up-to July 1st. I am speculation that there may have been some update on their status or promises made when the spots were awarded...but again, all speculation from my part.

Nonetheless, this player migration to Champions League teams will leave LH league hurting for quality. Forget about PPL and APL, those leagues are scrambling for players that left for open spots in LH teams, and if you attended any of the QT games....it is rec-select soccer (expensive) at this point where it will take a while (the younger age groups) to gain back the quality level that LH had prior to the introduction of AP and champions league, however, that is a separate subject altogether....Champions League please!!! Updated details please!! Anyone??!!
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Post by TatonkaBurger 04/08/16, 02:09 pm

Sheep don't need details.  They just move the herd when the time is right.
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Post by Guest 04/08/16, 03:31 pm

Max roster in LHGCL for U15-19 is 22 not 18. Don't know about ECNL.

LHGCL Roster Size - A. Roster Size: The maximum number of players on a roster in Under 11 is sixteen (16). The maximum number of players on a roster in the Under 12 through Under 14 age divisions is eighteen (18). The maximum number of players on a roster in the Under 15 through Under 19 age divisions is twenty-two (22). The minimum number of players necessary for a team to register for LHGCL, in 9 vs 9 age groups is twelve (12) and in 11 vs 11 age groups is fourteen (14).

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Post by soccerjack 04/08/16, 04:13 pm

The plan worked. They sucked a huge number of kids away from the "non" clubs and now the money is coming in. They will let you know when they figure out the details. Right now they're busy high fiving each other. Next up....working on having just scrimmages instead of games with no refs. Keeps the cost down and avoids those nasty scores and accountability.
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Post by Rico S 04/08/16, 04:30 pm

Texas Champions League to begin Fall 2017







A formal announcement by US Club about the Texas Champions League was recently made which will include a new regional league component for our ECNL Composite Teams.

The Texas Champions League will give our participating teams the added benefit of a post season qualifying opportunity through the NPL Regionals and Nationals competition structure.
Read More








This is from a TSC emailed newsletter that seems to indicate that Champion's League will start Fall of 2017.  Mistake?

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Post by soccerjack 04/08/16, 04:47 pm

Rico S wrote:
Texas Champions League to begin Fall 2017







A formal announcement by US Club about the Texas Champions League was recently made which will include a new regional league component for our ECNL Composite Teams.

The Texas Champions League will give our participating teams the added benefit of a post season qualifying opportunity through the NPL Regionals and Nationals competition structure.
Read More








This is from a TSC emailed newsletter that seems to indicate that Champion's League will start Fall of 2017.  Mistake?

Contracts are signed. 2016...2017 who cares.
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