does it ever work???

soccersounder wrote:

Blank77 wrote:Most of them were just playing with your small team for touches anyway. If we are talking about younger age groups, and it sounds like we are, just keep in mind that all those studs slumming will be playing for contenders come signing day. By u11, you will find very little top level talent outside the top level teams.

I disagree. As a Ref, I see a player or two on most PPL Teams that could start for anyone. Every D3 team will have a few and even more on the D2 teams..

It is not like we are comparing the NBA to the YMCA.

I agree. And to answer the original question, yes, it can work but it takes hundreds of practices (closer to a thousand!), patient parents, and a cohesive group of players who stay together for years.

How often do you see that when there are so many choices. My niece is in the same situation. Been on a team in OK where they've played together forever and have become pretty good. But this is in a smaller town where there is no competition. I would think that the better players (or their parents) would want to play in the best leagues (LH or ECNL).

10sDad wrote:

turftoe9 wrote:

JH01 wrote:

Blank77 wrote:Most of them were just playing with your small team for touches anyway. If we are talking about younger age groups, and it sounds like we are, just keep in mind that all those studs slumming will be playing for contenders come signing day. By u11, you will find very little top level talent outside the top level teams.

Okay this is an ignorant statement. There are good players on lower division teams and independent teams at all the age groups. There are some players on the top Divisional teams because of Politics and other reasons. There are some top players in the Plano division who stay because of friends, coaching, and financial reasons. There are players from those teams who have gone on to play college soccer with scholarships to some Division 1,2 and 3 schools. You are just wrong in your statement . Sorry.

Can you tell the name of 1 Plano div. player who got a scholarship to a D1 college team?

Rare, but there are examples - not much recruiting from PPL, but if they are a good player, they probably play HS ball, which can get them looked at.
What is more common, is the player with tons of natural talent that is incessantly pushed to be in D1 since age 6...only to burn out and hate soccer at age 14-16. They weren't having any fun due to the pressure, and the endless schedule cramps their social lives. Now....Along come the lower level studs, who have been having fun and love the game to take their place on the LHGCL roster, make an immediate impact partially due to their positive attitude, have less stress due to the fact that they were able to do homework without the grueling schedule and miraculously they are the ones that receive a scholarship. Is the scholarship going to a LHGCL player? yep. Was that player on a top academy team and in LHGCL at age 11? maybe, maybe not. Seen this many, many times on the Boy's side. I assume its similar for the girls.
#1 team at my BBs age at U-11 only had 3 players from that original team playing college soccer. Of those 3, only one of those is still playing sophmore year.

Nice post and reminds me of my Niece’s NTX Soccer Journey. I have mentioned it once before several months ago in a different thread, but proof positive that D1 is not the “end all” at any given point, here is her recap:

U11 – Non starter on a D3 team
U12 – switched teams to start and that new team did not qualify for LHGCL, they “played up” in PPL
U13 – Switched teams to start for a D2 team
U14 – same team
U15 – Switch to another D2 team with bigger club
U16 – same team
U17 – Same team, but promoted to D1
U18 – Same Team D1 and signed Full Scholly

So she took 6 years to get to D1 and it still worked out.

soccersounder wrote:

10sDad wrote:

turftoe9 wrote:

JH01 wrote:

Blank77 wrote:Most of them were just playing with your small team for touches anyway. If we are talking about younger age groups, and it sounds like we are, just keep in mind that all those studs slumming will be playing for contenders come signing day. By u11, you will find very little top level talent outside the top level teams.

Okay this is an ignorant statement. There are good players on lower division teams and independent teams at all the age groups. There are some players on the top Divisional teams because of Politics and other reasons. There are some top players in the Plano division who stay because of friends, coaching, and financial reasons. There are players from those teams who have gone on to play college soccer with scholarships to some Division 1,2 and 3 schools. You are just wrong in your statement . Sorry.

Can you tell the name of 1 Plano div. player who got a scholarship to a D1 college team?

Rare, but there are examples - not much recruiting from PPL, but if they are a good player, they probably play HS ball, which can get them looked at.
What is more common, is the player with tons of natural talent that is incessantly pushed to be in D1 since age 6...only to burn out and hate soccer at age 14-16. They weren't having any fun due to the pressure, and the endless schedule cramps their social lives. Now....Along come the lower level studs, who have been having fun and love the game to take their place on the LHGCL roster, make an immediate impact partially due to their positive attitude, have less stress due to the fact that they were able to do homework without the grueling schedule and miraculously they are the ones that receive a scholarship. Is the scholarship going to a LHGCL player? yep. Was that player on a top academy team and in LHGCL at age 11? maybe, maybe not. Seen this many, many times on the Boy's side. I assume its similar for the girls.
#1 team at my BBs age at U-11 only had 3 players from that original team playing college soccer. Of those 3, only one of those is still playing sophmore year.

Nice post and reminds me of my Niece’s NTX Soccer Journey. I have mentioned it once before several months ago in a different thread, but proof positive that D1 is not the “end all” at any given point, here is her recap:

U11 – Non starter on a D3 team
U12 – switched teams to start and that new team did not qualify for LHGCL, they “played up” in PPL
U13 – Switched teams to start for a D2 team
U14 – same team
U15 – Switch to another D2 team with bigger club
U16 – same team
U17 – Same team, but promoted to D1
U18 – Same Team D1 and signed Full Scholly

So she took 6 years to get to D1 and it still worked out.

yes but highly unlikely....

Yea, I'm sure my niece is the only story out there... Highly unlikely?? Then they should go ahead and shut down PPL and Arlington and just play REQ.. Plenty of ways to get it done. No automatic rides in D1 and no crushed dreams in D3...

soccersounder wrote:Yea, I'm sure my niece is the only story out there... Highly unlikely?? Then they should go ahead and shut down PPL and Arlington and just play REQ.. Plenty of ways to get it done. No automatic rides in D1 and no crushed dreams in D3...

not calling you a liar, its just that kind of story circulates every now and then. "she only played rec and then when she was in high school, she was discovered by a d1 school and got a full scholarship"....

Silent I don't beleive her story said she played in rec. I think she was showing a journey of six years and finally making it. From D3 to PPL and slowly back up to D1. I would agree it doesn't happen much because people generally are impatient. We want it now and have to get it now. Tomorrow is way too late. With the change in the landscape, I have to agree with the ref who states there is probably talent in all areas of Plano who could make a D1 team if they tried out. Probably 1 on most teams. They choose to stay with friends, to have a different soccer life balance but may still have hopes and dreams to reach the D1 level it's just not their time.

DDsdadforsoccer wrote:Silent I don't beleive her story said she played in rec. I think she was showing a journey of six years and finally making it. From D3 to PPL and slowly back up to D1. I would agree it doesn't happen much because people generally are impatient. We want it now and have to get it now. Tomorrow is way too late. With the change in the landscape, I have to agree with the ref who states there is probably talent in all areas of Plano who could make a D1 team if they tried out. Probably 1 on most teams. They choose to stay with friends, to have a different soccer life balance but may still have hopes and dreams to reach the D1 level it's just not their time.

yes my post was sloppy. i do believe his story. i was trying (badly) to reference the unicorn player that never plays in top leagues but gets a full ride. i think i will let it drop.

silentparent wrote:

soccersounder wrote:Yea, I'm sure my niece is the only story out there... Highly unlikely?? Then they should go ahead and shut down PPL and Arlington and just play REQ.. Plenty of ways to get it done. No automatic rides in D1 and no crushed dreams in D3...

not calling you a liar, its just that kind of story circulates every now and then. "she only played rec and then when she was in high school, she was discovered by a d1 team and got a full scholarship"....

Speaking from experience, most (probably 2/3) of my BB's national academy team at U16 and U18 were not D1 players at U-11. They were either true athletes that discovered the sport late (like football or basketball didn't work out for them), or they were tireless workers that loved the game and just worked their way up.
Yes, some of the stud players at U-11 were studs at U-18. But that was rare..they were still on the team, and still very good players, but were not as dominant as they were previously.
The assumption that greatness is identifiable at U-8 has been proven incorrectly time and time again.

Last word of advice on this topic: If you are pushing your DD in hopes of getting a scholarship (even if you don't verbalize it or deny it outright), your goal will never come to total fruition - mark my words (maybe a partial, but not a full). It isn't up to you, nor will it ever be. Be a Mom/Dad - not a sports agent. Be supportive, not overbearing. We all want our children to succeed, but when we replace their dreams with our own - or try to tell them what their dreams SHOULD BE, the kids dreams end up as a pile of mush on the floor, and they will not attain them.

Have to agree with the last post. It is is extremly rare that the most dominant 8 -10 years old is the same at 16-18. Hence the journey that most try to talk about but few really listen to. I do have to disagree on one point. I think it is important to dream the big dreams (Scholarships national level) to have any chance of them coming true. Yes they most likely won't come true but doesn't mean you shouldn't stop those dreams. It's the dreamers that make the world go around and those are the ones who become the next Mia, Wambach, Messi, CR.

just when i thought i was out they drag me back in...

i never said that you have to be in d1 to make a scholarship. i said i don't believe the unicorn story of she only played rec and then in hs got a full ride. i think those stories are bull. now having said that. i think you must play competitively growing up and at some point play at a high level. where that high level is depends, but it certainly is not limited to u11...

DDsdadforsoccer wrote:Have to agree with the last post. It is is extremly rare that the most dominant 8 -10 years old is the same at 16-18. Hence the journey that most try to talk about but few really listen to. I do have to disagree on one point. I think it is important to dream the big dreams (Scholarships national level) to have any chance of them coming true. Yes they most likely won't come true but doesn't mean you shouldn't stop those dreams. It's the dreamers that make the world go around and those are the ones who become the next Mia, Wambach, Messi, CR.

I disagree with this completely. Some do fall off and some come up, but it is more stable then you think. KD used to come on here and talk about his 95 and how their top team did not change much as the girls grew up. I know for a fact that most top 01s at 8 are top girls today. Sure, if 8 year old dominance was due to being physically advanced that fades, but most girls that had it at 8, have it at 12. I know the girl I consider to be the top 01 has not changed since u6. I can also say that my daughter's academy team which was considered elite at u8 has 90% of the roster contributing in d1 at u12.

There's a kid going to UNC on a ride this year whose story would qualify as a "unicorn" story in your world. It does happen.

Gunner9 wrote:There's a kid going to UNC on a ride this year whose story would qualify as a "unicorn" story in your world. It does happen.

we have a winner!

Gunner9 wrote:There's a kid going to UNC on a ride this year whose story would qualify as a "unicorn" story in your world. It does happen.

Was she at 31 flavors last night with Ferris?

Blank77 wrote:

DDsdadforsoccer wrote:Have to agree with the last post. It is is extremly rare that the most dominant 8 -10 years old is the same at 16-18. Hence the journey that most try to talk about but few really listen to. I do have to disagree on one point. I think it is important to dream the big dreams (Scholarships national level) to have any chance of them coming true. Yes they most likely won't come true but doesn't mean you shouldn't stop those dreams. It's the dreamers that make the world go around and those are the ones who become the next Mia, Wambach, Messi, CR.

I disagree with this completely. Some do fall off and some come up, but it is more stable then you think. KD used to come on here and talk about his 95 and how their top team did not change much as the girls grew up. I know for a fact that most top 01s at 8 are top girls today. Sure, if 8 year old dominance was due to being physically advanced that fades, but most girls that had it at 8, have it at 12. I know the girl I consider to be the top 01 has not changed since u6. I can also say that my daughter's academy team which was considered elite at u8 has 90% of the roster contributing in d1 at u12.

What I said was the most dominant at 8-10 is not the "same" at 16-18. What you can get a way with due to developing faster then everyone else you can't get away with as the other catch up. The benefit the super studd has at 8 to the regular child. Is everyone can see she is a studd and will invest in the studd rather then the on non-studd child with heart. It is just esaier. I think it would be an interesting study to find out of the US national team men or women. How many were the super studs at 8. First question I'll ask when I get to interview national team members.

I'm a local soccer Dad who has developed a scoring/statistical application for the iPhone and iPad. It was designed to put some objectivity into the soccer experience while enjoying the game of my favorite player--by DD! The app is called Soccer Statz. It features a color coded interface for tracking possession, player playing time and many other key statistics that you can report on later. Get more info at www.soccer-statz.com. To purchase the app you can go to the App Store and search for "soccer statz llc".

The gap closes, that is for sure.

I tend to discount the blanket argument that if your kid's good now, eventually he or she won't be. My guess is that a decent number of the studs at an early age burn out or get caught -- particularly if their advantages are all based on size.

But a higher than normal percentage of the studs probably continue to excel too. As noted by Gladwell, some of it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The studs at an early age get the attention, which helps them excel, which gets them better opportunities, etc., etc.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=merron/081208

turftoe9 wrote:

JH01 wrote:

Blank77 wrote:Most of them were just playing with your small team for touches anyway. If we are talking about younger age groups, and it sounds like we are, just keep in mind that all those studs slumming will be playing for contenders come signing day. By u11, you will find very little top level talent outside the top level teams.

Okay this is an ignorant statement. There are good players on lower division teams and independent teams at all the age groups. There are some players on the top Divisional teams because of Politics and other reasons. There are some top players in the Plano division who stay because of friends, coaching, and financial reasons. There are players from those teams who have gone on to play college soccer with scholarships to some Division 1,2 and 3 schools. You are just wrong in your statement . Sorry.

Can you tell the name of 1 Plano div. player who got a scholarship to a D1 college team?

Ironically enough, I could provide you with name after name after name of LHGCL D1 players that received what I would call "token" scholarships to schools they never really wanted to attend. The list grows with players that turned down the "opportunity" to even play in college. And the list is just about as long for the players that do one year of a sport in college and then quit. My point is that if you're going to bring up the low numbers of PPL players getting college scholarships, you have to define the scholarship reality as it really is. It's pie-in-the-sky for the vast majority of select players.

I was talking to a freshmen college student just last week who had turned down a decent college scholarship offer with a good (but not great) D1 women's program. She attends the university on academic scholarships that total roughly what soccer would have yielded. Her view was that the decision was a no-brainer because:

* The team typically practices twice a day; once at 6 am and the other at 4 pm. Needless to say, that can affect study time.

* The players are not allowed to stay out past 10 pm on most nights and occasionally are "allowed" to watch the entire first half of home football games. Yippee.

* Her counselor said that for her rather challenging (i.e. high paying) degree, there was almost no chance she could juggle both soccer and studies for very long at all. I suppose she could have switched to an economics or liberal arts major and pulled it off.

* She made the statement that the team is "gone almost all the time" and that their friendships were almost entirely within the team. Think of it as a jump start toward civil unions.

Playing soccer at a D1 college is a full-time job. That is a matter of fact. Some love the sport to this extent, and I salute them. D2 has become quite a juggle as well. But if your daughter doesn't want to work her way through college, the PPL route to simply enjoying the sport through 12th grade seems pretty enticing. And the independent team idea as proposed by the OP of this thread - with the financial savings that go with it - is surely the best idea out there for most girls.

Two great responses...Perhaps the best post of the year IMO. Thanks Xara and 10sDad for the honest, first hand feedback. Im gonna print it out and keep on my frig as a reminder about the journey ahead for my 00.

Xara wrote:

turftoe9 wrote:

JH01 wrote:

Blank77 wrote:Most of them were just playing with your small team for touches anyway. If we are talking about younger age groups, and it sounds like we are, just keep in mind that all those studs slumming will be playing for contenders come signing day. By u11, you will find very little top level talent outside the top level teams.

Okay this is an ignorant statement. There are good players on lower division teams and independent teams at all the age groups. There are some players on the top Divisional teams because of Politics and other reasons. There are some top players in the Plano division who stay because of friends, coaching, and financial reasons. There are players from those teams who have gone on to play college soccer with scholarships to some Division 1,2 and 3 schools. You are just wrong in your statement . Sorry.

Can you tell the name of 1 Plano div. player who got a scholarship to a D1 college team?

Ironically enough, I could provide you with name after name after name of LHGCL D1 players that received what I would call "token" scholarships to schools they never really wanted to attend. The list grows with players that turned down the "opportunity" to even play in college. And the list is just about as long for the players that do one year of a sport in college and then quit. My point is that if you're going to bring up the low numbers of PPL players getting college scholarships, you have to define the scholarship reality as it really is. It's pie-in-the-sky for the vast majority of select players.

I was talking to a freshmen college student just last week who had turned down a decent college scholarship offer with a good (but not great) D1 women's program. She attends the university on academic scholarships that total roughly what soccer would have yielded. Her view was that the decision was a no-brainer because:

* The team typically practices twice a day; once at 6 am and the other at 4 pm. Needless to say, that can affect study time.

* The players are not allowed to stay out past 10 pm on most nights and occasionally are "allowed" to watch the entire first half of home football games. Yippee.

* Her counselor said that for her rather challenging (i.e. high paying) degree, there was almost no chance she could juggle both soccer and studies for very long at all. I suppose she could have switched to an economics or liberal arts major and pulled it off.

* She made the statement that the team is "gone almost all the time" and that their friendships were almost entirely within the team. Think of it as a jump start toward civil unions.

Playing soccer at a D1 college is a full-time job. That is a matter of fact. Some love the sport to this extent, and I salute them. D2 has become quite a juggle as well. But if your daughter doesn't want to work her way through college, the PPL route to simply enjoying the sport through 12th grade seems pretty enticing. And the independent team idea as proposed by the OP of this thread - with the financial savings that go with it - is surely the best idea out there for most girls.

I love the way you don't say who the girl is and don't state which college. So why should I beleve anything you have stated? Not saying it didn't happen but back up your statements!!!

Now there's a sound argument. Why don't I post personal information about a 19 year old young lady who has nothing more to do with this forum than being referred to in a story. What a sage suggestion.

Here's a better idea: Do your homework. If you'll correctly search the material, you'll likely be shocked at the fairy tale that is college scholarship money for most athletes. The information is readily available, and in most cases, makes the statements I relayed in my last post seem like "positive" endorsements of how it will all play out.

Look into the truth for the vast majority of young athletes entering college. That 529 option will seem like a no-brainer.

I really hope people do not put all their marbles in select soccer expecting a pot of gold (major college scholarship) at the end. Surely, people are smart enough to have another plan. If you are paying full price with your club, plus uniform, and travel...I believe that annual $3 or $4K (min) would be better spent investing for your DDs college and not hoping for a scholarship. Even if your DD gets a college scholly, it may not be to the school she wants or needs to go to. What is your DD going to do, play professional soccer? Doubtful.

Focus on grades first, then sports. If good enough at both, even better. Just have another plan if possible.

Do your best to keep soccer fun for your DD or they will end up quitting and then you will be really mad after spending all that money year after year.

JustMe wrote:Two great responses...Perhaps the best post of the year IMO. Thanks Xara and 10sDad for the honest, first hand feedback. Im gonna print it out and keep on my frig as a reminder about the journey ahead for my 00.

Best of luck to her! I hope she continues to love the game and gets whatever level of fulfillment she is looking for!

Xara wrote:Now there's a sound argument. Why don't I post personal information about a 19 year old young lady who has nothing more to do with this forum than being referred to in a story. What a sage suggestion.

Here's a better idea: Do your homework. If you'll correctly search the material, you'll likely be shocked at the fairy tale that is college scholarship money for most athletes. The information is readily available, and in most cases, makes the statements I relayed in my last post seem like "positive" endorsements of how it will all play out.

Look into the truth for the vast majority of young athletes entering college. That 529 option will seem like a no-brainer.

From time to time I frequent the SoCal webpage and that is a major difference with our site. We don't name names here in NTX, but they have no problem doing so on the SoCal page. In fact they name our dd's names from NTX there as well. At least the DDs of celebrities we have.