03 Human Rankings - top 20 + Dark Horses

Blank77 wrote:

TheWolf wrote:players have to "benched" for games that the studs play (potential parent issues if this happens)?

It all depends on expectations, but I have seen first hand where a regular player sits due to a guest and it can absolutely cause issues. How it is handled can vary greatly depending on coach, player, team, and parents.

...and what I'm talking about here is not just fewer minutes in a game when the guest player shows up. I'm talking about the player having to be left off of the game roster and can't even suit up on that day.

Example... 2 '03 studs are rostered on the '03 team. '02 team has a regular roster of 15 players. Club/coach decide that this Saturday, the 2 '03's will play up with the '02 team. '02 team is only allowed to have 16 players suited up for the game. Now, an '02 player that is paying full fees is not even suiting up for the game? Don't see that going over too well.

Just to be clear, I know absolutely nothing about this situation, or the proposed rule change. However, as I have stated before, if these '03 players are truly special enough to start and be significant contributors on a top 5 '02 team, my money is on them simply joining the '02 team and playing full time with that team in league play. Maybe it won't start that way, but it won't take long for the player/coach/parents to realize that if the players can handle playing up, there is very little benefit to those players playing with the '03's, especially with the potential "complications" involved in doing so.

How are the select fees handled for those special players that are dual rostered?

- Pay full on team 1 and get a free pass on team 2 or vice-versa?
- Pay full on team 1 and team 2?
- Pay half and half?
- Not pay anything at all since they are so special?

Plain curious.

""Example... 2 '03 studs are rostered on the '03 team. '02 team has a regular roster of 15 players. Club/coach decide that this Saturday, the 2 '03's will play up with the '02 team. '02 team is only allowed to have 16 players suited up for the game. Now, an '02 player that is paying full fees is not even suiting up for the game? Don't see that going over too well."""

hit it on the head, congrats. uh suzy i know you have paid 2500 to play with us, you are a good player and have been to every practice but this game don't bother coming, we need to win this game so i am bringing mary and becky to help us win this lake highlands game. This would open the gates to hell on a team and must be the stupidest thing i have seen proposed in along time. absolutely asinine

silentparent wrote:""Example... 2 '03 studs are rostered on the '03 team. '02 team has a regular roster of 15 players. Club/coach decide that this Saturday, the 2 '03's will play up with the '02 team. '02 team is only allowed to have 16 players suited up for the game. Now, an '02 player that is paying full fees is not even suiting up for the game? Don't see that going over too well."""

hit it on the head, congrats. uh suzy i know you have paid 2500 to play with us, you are a good player and have been to every practice but this game don't bother coming, we need to win this game so i am bringing mary and becky to help us win this lake highlands game. This would open the gates to hell on a team and must be the stupidest thing i have seen proposed in along time. absolutely asinine

Please don't call out players by name on this sight. Besides, we all know becky and mary are way over-rated! I heard Suzy was at tryouts over at Meja anyway.

bwgophers wrote:

Blank77 wrote:

TheWolf wrote:players have to "benched" for games that the studs play (potential parent issues if this happens)?

It all depends on expectations, but I have seen first hand where a regular player sits due to a guest and it can absolutely cause issues. How it is handled can vary greatly depending on coach, player, team, and parents.

...and what I'm talking about here is not just fewer minutes in a game when the guest player shows up. I'm talking about the player having to be left off of the game roster and can't even suit up on that day.

Example... 2 '03 studs are rostered on the '03 team. '02 team has a regular roster of 15 players. Club/coach decide that this Saturday, the 2 '03's will play up with the '02 team. '02 team is only allowed to have 16 players suited up for the game. Now, an '02 player that is paying full fees is not even suiting up for the game? Don't see that going over too well.

Just to be clear, I know absolutely nothing about this situation, or the proposed rule change. However, as I have stated before, if these '03 players are truly special enough to start and be significant contributors on a top 5 '02 team, my money is on them simply joining the '02 team and playing full time with that team in league play. Maybe it won't start that way, but it won't take long for the player/coach/parents to realize that if the players can handle playing up, there is very little benefit to those players playing with the '03's, especially with the potential "complications" involved in doing so.

Come on BW, play only 02's and take away the "top 03' team in the nation" title? That title alone is worth much more than what 4 roster spots cost...

herradura wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

Blank77 wrote:

TheWolf wrote:players have to "benched" for games that the studs play (potential parent issues if this happens)?

It all depends on expectations, but I have seen first hand where a regular player sits due to a guest and it can absolutely cause issues. How it is handled can vary greatly depending on coach, player, team, and parents.

...and what I'm talking about here is not just fewer minutes in a game when the guest player shows up. I'm talking about the player having to be left off of the game roster and can't even suit up on that day.

Example... 2 '03 studs are rostered on the '03 team. '02 team has a regular roster of 15 players. Club/coach decide that this Saturday, the 2 '03's will play up with the '02 team. '02 team is only allowed to have 16 players suited up for the game. Now, an '02 player that is paying full fees is not even suiting up for the game? Don't see that going over too well.

Just to be clear, I know absolutely nothing about this situation, or the proposed rule change. However, as I have stated before, if these '03 players are truly special enough to start and be significant contributors on a top 5 '02 team, my money is on them simply joining the '02 team and playing full time with that team in league play. Maybe it won't start that way, but it won't take long for the player/coach/parents to realize that if the players can handle playing up, there is very little benefit to those players playing with the '03's, especially with the potential "complications" involved in doing so.

Come on BW, play only 02's and take away the "top 03' team in the nation" title? That title alone is worth much more than what 4 roster spots cost...

Can't quite tell if you're being sarcastic or not with that response, but just in case you aren't, this is how I see it...

If the parents of the "special" player have higher aspirations for their DD, when the rubber hits the road, they are going to do what they feel is in the best interest of their DD in the context of reaching that ultimate goal. If their DD's best chance at achieving her long-term goals are best served by playing up against older girls, that's what she'll do, and being on the "best '03 team in the nation" won't mean squat to them.

Again, I know no specifics on this situation, and could be completely wrong, but I've been around select sports in NTX long enough to have seen enough cases like the one being discussed here, and they almost always work out the same way. I'll be interested to come back on here in February of next year to see how everything ended up playing out (pun intended)

bwgophers wrote:

herradura wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

Blank77 wrote:

TheWolf wrote:players have to "benched" for games that the studs play (potential parent issues if this happens)?

It all depends on expectations, but I have seen first hand where a regular player sits due to a guest and it can absolutely cause issues. How it is handled can vary greatly depending on coach, player, team, and parents.

...and what I'm talking about here is not just fewer minutes in a game when the guest player shows up. I'm talking about the player having to be left off of the game roster and can't even suit up on that day.

Example... 2 '03 studs are rostered on the '03 team. '02 team has a regular roster of 15 players. Club/coach decide that this Saturday, the 2 '03's will play up with the '02 team. '02 team is only allowed to have 16 players suited up for the game. Now, an '02 player that is paying full fees is not even suiting up for the game? Don't see that going over too well.

Just to be clear, I know absolutely nothing about this situation, or the proposed rule change. However, as I have stated before, if these '03 players are truly special enough to start and be significant contributors on a top 5 '02 team, my money is on them simply joining the '02 team and playing full time with that team in league play. Maybe it won't start that way, but it won't take long for the player/coach/parents to realize that if the players can handle playing up, there is very little benefit to those players playing with the '03's, especially with the potential "complications" involved in doing so.

Come on BW, play only 02's and take away the "top 03' team in the nation" title? That title alone is worth much more than what 4 roster spots cost...

Can't quite tell if you're being sarcastic or not with that response, but just in case you aren't, this is how I see it...

If the parents of the "special" player have higher aspirations for their DD, when the rubber hits the road, they are going to do what they feel is in the best interest of their DD in the context of reaching that ultimate goal. If their DD's best chance at achieving her long-term goals are best served by playing up against older girls, that's what she'll do, and being on the "best '03 team in the nation" won't mean squat to them.

Again, I know no specifics on this situation, and could be completely wrong, but I've been around select sports in NTX long enough to have seen enough cases like the one being discussed here, and they almost always work out the same way. I'll be interested to come back on here in February of next year to see how everything ended up playing out (pun intended)

Has there recently been a local team that has a #1 national ranking? I would think that would draw more attention to a star player than playing up on a "top 02 NTX team". But I do not know how those things work.

I did hear that the USWT Director was out at the 03 practice yesterday... (no I am not joking). Doubt she watched the 02s practice...

I'm bouncing in and out of this discussion -

Is there much difference, particularly at this skill level (super good), playing at the top of 03's and playing in boys leagues compared to playing 02's?

If not, than I agree with Herradura - exposure is greater with National Ranked #1 03 team.

IMO, playing up would help their development more while staying put would help their exposure more. Kind of a catch-22. What would be better for them, I don't know, but it is a nice spot to be in.

"I've been around select sports in NTX long enough to have seen enough cases like the one being discussed here, and they almost always work out the same way"

I'll bite....how does it normally end up? Tell the parents what to expect based on your experience? Honestly would like to know.

The "exposure" angle reminds me of a story.

A few years back a friend whose son was a good basketball player ran into Bobby Knight at the HOF dinner in Springfield. The kid was in 8th grade and had already reached 6'6". He corners BK and starts extolling his kid's prowess. Knight cuts him short saying, "Not to be rude, but I'm Bobby Knight. If your kid was THAT good, you wouldn't have to tell me about him. I'd already know"

TheWolf wrote:"I've been around select sports in NTX long enough to have seen enough cases like the one being discussed here, and they almost always work out the same way"

I'll bite....how does it normally end up? Tell the parents what to expect based on your experience? Honestly would like to know.

Simple, if the kid is capable of playing up in age and able to contribute/excel in the older age group, and the rules allow for it, that's where the kid will end up playing because the player's long- term development is better served by being challenged against older kids than dominating kids their own age. Once they start playing up, they rarely go back. Even if that means passing on a chance to be on a "national contender" in their age group.

Now, might the player(s) in question "drop back" to play with the '03 team in some big tournaments (i.e. Surf Cup, Vegas Cup, etc.)? Sure. But If they are as good as people are saying, I'd be surprised to see them playing a significant amount of their games against '03's locally here in NTX.

I did hear a few years ago that a famous football player (#94 + 5 superbowl rings)had his daughter play up; however, I never asked him why he made that decision.

Zidane wrote:I did hear a few years ago that a famous football player (#94 + 5 superbowl rings)had his daughter play up; however, I never asked him why he made that decision.

If a kid can score regularly for the U17 National Team as a 14-yr old, playing up probably makes sense.

Zidane wrote:I did hear a few years ago that a famous football player (#94 + 5 superbowl rings)had his daughter play up; however, I never asked him why he made that decision.

When you see the size of her and strength no need even asking..

Tokenone wrote:

Zidane wrote:I did hear a few years ago that a famous football player (#94 + 5 superbowl rings)had his daughter play up; however, I never asked him why he made that decision.

When you see the size of her and strength no need even asking..

So that is who DM(W) is all this time... #94, who would have guessed. Wait, he doesn't have 5 superbowls??

OK - CH wore that number as well... got it.

The team has more than "2" kids that can play up at the '02 level. In fact, I'd say there are 5-6 kids that can play at that level and excel and play at a very high level. These girls are special players. Saying that only two are capable is an injustice to the other girls. If you haven't seen these girls play, come out to watch them. It's a treat.

There's probably 30+ 03 girls that can play up and be just fine. The difference with these two, at least in my opinion, right now can play up and be in the top 5 at that age. Honestly though, being the top 10 year old is a nice thing for parents to brag about to their friends but in reality it doesn't really mean all that much. Get back to me when they are 13 and they have all gone through their growing spurts.

There is no doubt there are other girls on the SRSA team that are outstanding young ladies and very good soccer players. However it's not at all a coincidence that everyone that watches them play come away with the same impression, the three girls up top are the proverbial straws that stir the drink. Those two girls moving up will no doubt be good for the 5 or 6 others to step up and show what they can do. Do not take this as a knock on any of the other girls, I think any coach out there would love to have any one of them and they'd all find a starting job.

All of y'all drive me insane with this "playing up" stuff. My Gawd, think about it. In a few years most of these kids will play multiple age groups if they play in MS or HS. We act like this is earth shattering news.

What I'd like to see is SRSA or these 2 players play in the boys Classic league. That would be something to talk about.

This playing up is good news for the rest of SRSA 03 players cuz it gives other girls a chance to become leaders of the team. It gives girls that didn't start more chances to start. It is good news for Solar Red 02 because they were a solid team but short in goals scored needing something special to challenge FCD Premier 02 and Texans Higg 02. In 02 there will now be three clear top teams to beat, unless the studs from FCD and Texans use the same rule change to split time in the 01 division. There are at least 4 players in 02 that would be big impact players in 01. And top teams in 03 feel they have a better chance against SRSA 03 when the studs are off in 02. Its all good.

I'd like to go back to the question that I posed a couple of pages ago...

Is this new rule an NTSSA rule, or an LHGCL rule?

I just checked both the NTSSA and LHGCL rules and bylaws posted on their websites, and see no mention of these changes. Seems a bit surprising that it's less than a month before contracts are signed, yet I can't find any official documentation of what amounts to be a fairly substantial change in the rules that could affect how teams approach their roster formation for the coming year.

Tokenone - you seem to be in the know about this. Can you shed any more light?

Tokenone wrote:

1. They are passing a new rule ie:starting this season a player can be rostered on a 03,02,01 dont matter and play up a age group in a weekend as long as its interclub. they cant play there 03' and 02'games in the same weekend.Ask your coach about this.

The final outcome, for any girl who is good enough and dedicated to stay in the game, is playing on a mixed aged team and with multiple coaches and coaching styles along the way.

bwgophers wrote:I'd like to go back to the question that I posed a couple of pages ago...

Is this new rule an NTSSA rule, or an LHGCL rule?

I just checked both the NTSSA and LHGCL rules and bylaws posted on their websites, and see no mention of these changes. Seems a bit surprising that it's less than a month before contracts are signed, yet I can't find any official documentation of what amounts to be a fairly substantial change in the rules that could affect how teams approach their roster formation for the coming year.

Tokenone - you seem to be in the know about this. Can you shed any more light?

Tokenone wrote:

1. They are passing a new rule ie:starting this season a player can be rostered on a 03,02,01 dont matter and play up a age group in a weekend as long as its interclub. they cant play there 03' and 02'games in the same weekend.Ask your coach about this.

Nope no more insite, just what ive heard.If the new rule doesnt pass then it looks like some kids will be signing contracts with older age groups.I personally hope it will pass. it will benifit alot kids.

Tokenone wrote:

bwgophers wrote:I'd like to go back to the question that I posed a couple of pages ago...

Is this new rule an NTSSA rule, or an LHGCL rule?

I just checked both the NTSSA and LHGCL rules and bylaws posted on their websites, and see no mention of these changes. Seems a bit surprising that it's less than a month before contracts are signed, yet I can't find any official documentation of what amounts to be a fairly substantial change in the rules that could affect how teams approach their roster formation for the coming year.

Tokenone - you seem to be in the know about this. Can you shed any more light?

Tokenone wrote:

1. They are passing a new rule ie:starting this season a player can be rostered on a 03,02,01 dont matter and play up a age group in a weekend as long as its interclub. they cant play there 03' and 02'games in the same weekend.Ask your coach about this.

Nope no more insite, just what ive heard.If the new rule doesnt pass then it looks like some kids will be signing contracts with older age groups.I personally hope it will pass. it will benifit alot kids.

I don't know about benefitting a lot of kids, maybe some clubs. If a girl is good enough to play up a year, it doesn't benefit her too much to also play at age. Also, it would take spots and play time away from other girls. It may even become detrimental to the teams, as chemistry starts getting very important as the talent gap will start closing fast and if the lineup changes week to week it may be hard on the "team."

bwgophers wrote:I'd like to go back to the question that I posed a couple of pages ago...

Is this new rule an NTSSA rule, or an LHGCL rule?

I just checked both the NTSSA and LHGCL rules and bylaws posted on their websites, and see no mention of these changes. Seems a bit surprising that it's less than a month before contracts are signed, yet I can't find any official documentation of what amounts to be a fairly substantial change in the rules that could affect how teams approach their roster formation for the coming year.

Tokenone - you seem to be in the know about this. Can you shed any more light?

Tokenone wrote:

1. They are passing a new rule ie:starting this season a player can be rostered on a 03,02,01 dont matter and play up a age group in a weekend as long as its interclub. they cant play there 03' and 02'games in the same weekend.Ask your coach about this.

Exactly why I underlined proposed rule change at the beginning of this thread... It seems certain people have a way of selling a "win-win dream" to parents before the details are all sorted out. Interesting it also coincides with the month leading up to signing day...

I sure hope no one is expecting this proposed rule change to equate to more playing time for their DD. Honestly, if you are hoping that girls currently on your team move on so your DD can get more playing time then I've got some ocean front property in Carrollton I can sell you real cheap.

It's select soccer and these clubs want to win. Here's what will most likely happen if the proposed rule change happens. A LH game against a lower ranked team and the girls play up in 02, your DD plays. A LH game against a top team and your DD rides the pine while the stars come back to assure victory. It sucks but it's the reality, anyone selling something else is looking out for the club, not your DD.