Top 20 '00 Teams In LHGCL?

This group for months has been (directly and indirectly), saying that a '00 teams' current division (1,2 or 3) is not necessarily indicative where it belongs in LHCGL. I've repeatedly read here how the division lines have blurred; how a D3 beat this D2 team, a D2 team beat that D1 team, how the top of D2/D3 would be competitive in the higher division , and vice versa.

I'm not suggesting we rehash the debate of who deserves to be in which division or the injustice of the LH system. IMO, at some point, all teams (and clubs) have earned and deserve the division where they currently play; often, the higher a  team moves, the harder it becomes to keep together. Lastly, rules and exceptions can't be made year-to-year for individual team or clubs.

However! With easily attained team info and match results, we should be able to realistically rank the top 20 '00 teams out of the 3 LH divisions. So...

This year, Who are the best 20 teams in '00 LHGCL and where are they ranked?

i think the LHCL gets if very close by division. The only issue is when teams fold and the club replaces with a lesser team. In some but not all cases that team is not competitive. With that said, it only take 1 year for that team to earn a demotion or the better team to be promoted. This is why i think it usually works out 80% that the division you are in is where you belong.

I'll have to put the pen to the paper but I haven't had my morning cup of joe, so I"m limited in what I can offer That said, my take is that if you catch a team on the right, or wrong, day you can see the occasional upset. The real question is can the lower-tiered teams do it week in and week out against the upper tiered teams. This is where I generally say no. There are exceptions I'm sure, and someone can come on here and give me a kajillion examples of why team lower should be playing team upper, or in the higher division. But there would be just as many counter arguments over why they should just stay put, earn it on the field, then say "team X showed they deserve to move up to the next level". Winning a division doesn't mean you should've been there all year long, it means you deserve a shot to move up and have a look-see.

backofthenet wrote:I'll have to put the pen to the paper but I haven't had my morning cup of joe, so I"m limited in what I can offer  That said, my take is that if you catch a team on the right, or wrong, day you can see the occasional upset.  The real question is can the lower-tiered teams do it week in and week out against the upper tiered teams.  This is where I generally say no.  There are exceptions I'm sure, and someone can come on here and give me a kajillion examples of why team lower should be playing team upper, or in the higher division.  But there would be just as many counter arguments over why they should just stay put, earn it on the field, then say "team X showed they deserve to move up to the next level".  Winning a division doesn't mean you should've been there all year long, it means you deserve a shot to move up and have a look-see.

OK, since it is so early in the season with only one game played for most teams, it is difficult to make a blanket statement that new teams cannot handle the grind. For that matter, to say whether or not the top teams will stay at the top.

Teams typically either grow stronger week to week or start to falter. I agree that at this point, divisional lines help mark the current top teams. But as we saw last season, some really good teams struggled and some new teams greatly improved or stayed at the top.

For those new teams coming in through QT, they start where they are but that doesn't mean that they only deserve their divisional ranking. This goes for those teams who moved up a division. Time will tell whether or not teams will manage to go toe to toe in divisions and come out ahead of existing divisional leaders.

However, that being said, I agree that at least for now, the top divisional leaders would be the top 20.

Not sure how helpful this is but this is the gotsoccer rankings (note some ECNL teams are included but since they haven't recently played in got soccer games/tournaments their rankings have fallen):

1 STING 00G (FLANAGAN) 29-11-10 D1
2 SOLAR CHELSEA ELITE 00G 27-7-5 D1
3 ANDROMEDA FC 00G 21-7-13 D1
4 SOLAR CHELSEA RED 2000 3-0-0 ECNL
5 STING 00 ROYAL (BROWN) 16-8-6 D1
6 FC DALLAS 00G BLUE 21-6-14 D1
7 STING CENTRAL 00G (PARKER) 29-7-5 D1
8 AZTECS FC LADY AZTECS FC 00 13-7-17 D2
9 SOLAR CHELSEA 00G 17-9-13 D1
10 DALLAS TEXANS ECNL U14 7-0-1 ECNL
11 NORTH TEXAS FUTBOL NTFC 00G BLACK 8-0-3
12 SPORTING FC 00G RED 17-3-8 D3
13 FEVER UNITED 00G PENN 25-6-11 D3
14 STING 00 (FERRETTI) 19-6-23 D2
15 SOLAR CHELSEA 00G GOLD 19-6-8 D2
16 STING NORTH 00 GARRETT 08-09-18 D1
17 TEXAS LIGHTNING 00G VAN ZANDT 18-5-21
18 FORT WORTH FC 00G WHITE 23-11-14 D3
19 MUSTANGS F.C. 00 NAVY - SPENCE 09-10-25 D3
20 D'FEETERS 00 ECNL 09-01-05 ECNL
21 TEXAS LONESTARS 00G 04-01-04
22 FC DALLAS YOUTH 00G PREMIER 09-11-13 D2
23 DALLAS TEXANS 00 NORTH 18-16-15 D2
24 MUSTANGS 00G (BUSSEY) 18-6-5 D2
25 D'FEETERS 00 PATULEA 13-12-14 D2

Havingfunyet wrote:i think the LHCL gets if very close by division.  The only issue is when teams fold and the club replaces with a lesser team.  In some but not all cases that team is not competitive.  With that said, it only take 1 year for that team to earn a demotion or the better team to be promoted.  This is why i think it usually works out 80% that the division you are in is where you belong.

Let me first ask which division your DD's team is in? It may not be the case with you specifically, but I would think that those in the upper division(s) (or those with the big clubs), would be more likely to share your view. I would have to generally disagree with you. Granted, I have not been around the scene for as long as most of you on here, but from my present vantage point looking at the current structure and my experience over the past couple of years, the divisional lines are blurred. It could be that my view is skewed because my DD's team is a bit of an anomaly, so may have to defer to others who've been around a lot longer. Also, the ECNL effect at U14 also probably played a huge role in blurring those lines, again, I'll defer to others who have a longer term perspective.

I disagree on the 1 year demotion/promotion statement, in part because if there's only 1 team being demoted/promoted then all the needed adjustments aren't being made, let alone the situation that just happened where D2 team gets relegated then promoted back in because the newly promoted team disbanded. Explain the logic of that? If you say that it was fair, I will counter that by saying that at the end of last season there were at least 4 teams (maybe more, yall decide) in D3 that were deserving of that spot. Those connected with this team will probably hate me for beating this drum, because of the attention it brings them, but SWW (barring any unforeseen major injuries) will help make my case this season. IMO, they will finish no lower than 5th, and probably higher, in D2, this after finishing 4th? in D3 last year. Not meaning to put pressure on them or a target on their back, however our team (and others I'm sure) would relish that challenge. I will also add that under the current structure, a team that's not from a big club has to literally run the table to assure itself a chance at promotion - a difficult thing to do at any level of sports, but that's the system we're in.

Yes you make a some good points but I would contend the following 1) LHCL qt is open to anyone 2) the seeding that LH does for the first year of select is scary accurate when you look at how teams finish at the end of the year and where they were seeded 3) if there are so many great teams in lower divisions then why is it when you get to tournements they really never win the tourament if higher seeded teams are present. They can win a game on any given day but it is very hard to upset multiple teams. I agee the backfill system does have undeserving team or 2 in a division, but the other 8 are usually there because they earned it. So I beleive it is 80 to 90 percent correct. Just my opinion but my dd has played d1 d2 and d3. I have seen the difference is each division. No outragous differences but they do exist.

Can't say I disagree with you on #1 and #2, but we're not talking U11. With respect to #3, I never said "there are so many great teams in lower divisions", but I will contend there were several better teams in D3 last year than teams that were in divisions above them. However this is a new year with a new set of variables, so we'll have to see how everything plays out. But I would not look at a single tournament result or a single game outcome, win or lose, to form a conclusion about a team, but would look at their overall body of work over time vs. higher ranked opponents.

Also, your comment about teams not able to win tournaments when higher seeded teams are present applies to those very same higher seeded teams that are present who also never win them. Only one team can win it. It's the overall performance that should be looked at. And frankly how often does it happen that lower division teams like in D3 for instance even get bracketed with D1/D2 teams in a major tournament? I can only speak for our team and say hardly ever.

I can say that those teams who played in the Texas Summer Classic faced an ECNL team in one bracket and the finals. And there were D1 and D2 teams playing against new and existing D3 teams. It depends on the tournament and what division your team requests.

Yup, and even if it's not a major tournament, but you're bracketed with some and don't handle your business when you get the opportunity, then there's really no excuses, so I just need to stop talking about it.

have any of the D1 teams played any of the ECNL teams in last year?   Would imagine most could hang with most but too lazy to research.  Don't think they play against each other much

Havingfunyet wrote:i think the LHCL gets if very close by division.  The only issue is when teams fold and the club replaces with a lesser team.  In some but not all cases that team is not competitive.  With that said, it only take 1 year for that team to earn a demotion or the better team to be promoted.  This is why i think it usually works out 80% that the division you are in is where you belong.

Fun, I agree--you are absolutely 100% correct. At some point, the bye was earned and it has to kept. Sometimes teams can't stay together, but the club and coach has earned the right to try to rebuild and keep the bye.  Some teams were absolutely better a few years ago for various reasons, ie other teams have just caught up, losses to ECNL, etc. ... sometimes circumstances give clubs & teams 2nd chances, and that is ok, I love 2nd chances.

Im just sayin' (this year especially), the division lines are blurred and talent is better dispersed among all of LH. Some rebuilt teams this year in D1-D3, are not as good as the the "lower ranked" team who stayed together a year ago. Right now, honestly, there are teams that may be playing in a division too high or low... But as the famous Client Eastwood quote goes, "Deserve ain't got nothin' to do with it...". I do know changing rules, making exceptions and/or reinventing the divisions on a yearly basis will never work.

Lastly, one thing people do forget is that "lower or mid level" successful or teams with great players do get raided by better "higher level" teams. I'm not so sure that is bad a thing. Some coaches get those players ready for better, higher competition, support their move up and don't make any apologies for it. They know they aren't helping a gifted soccer player by keeping them on a lower level team.

It's not my intention to point out who doesn't belong, but to just rank the top 20 teams in this age groups.

tex_gator wrote:Not sure how helpful this is but this is the gotsoccer rankings (note some ECNL teams are included but since they haven't recently played in got soccer games/tournaments their rankings have fallen):

1 STING 00G (FLANAGAN)             29-11-10 D1
2 SOLAR CHELSEA ELITE 00G             27-7-5             D1
3 ANDROMEDA FC 00G             21-7-13             D1
4 SOLAR CHELSEA RED 2000             3-0-0             ECNL
5 STING 00 ROYAL (BROWN)             16-8-6             D1
6 FC DALLAS 00G BLUE             21-6-14             D1
7 STING CENTRAL 00G (PARKER) 29-7-5             D1
8 AZTECS FC LADY AZTECS FC 00 13-7-17             D2
9 SOLAR CHELSEA 00G             17-9-13             D1
10 DALLAS TEXANS ECNL U14             7-0-1             ECNL
11 NORTH TEXAS FUTBOL NTFC 00G BLACK 8-0-3
12 SPORTING FC 00G RED             17-3-8             D3
13 FEVER UNITED 00G PENN             25-6-11             D3
14 STING 00 (FERRETTI)             19-6-23             D2
15 SOLAR CHELSEA 00G GOLD             19-6-8             D2
16 STING NORTH 00 GARRETT             08-09-18             D1
17 TEXAS LIGHTNING 00G VAN ZANDT 18-5-21
18 FORT WORTH FC 00G WHITE             23-11-14             D3
19 MUSTANGS F.C. 00 NAVY - SPENCE 09-10-25             D3
20 D'FEETERS 00 ECNL             09-01-05             ECNL
21 TEXAS LONESTARS 00G             04-01-04
22 FC DALLAS YOUTH 00G PREMIER 09-11-13             D2
23 DALLAS TEXANS 00 NORTH             18-16-15             D2
24 MUSTANGS 00G (BUSSEY)             18-6-5             D2
25 D'FEETERS 00 PATULEA             13-12-14             D2

Yeah, I'm not sure I would use got soccer as a betting line for my retirement this year. We like to give those ECNL teams grief, but all of those on this list are pretty good. Has anyone one this list played or scrimmaged the texans, solar or dfeet recently?

From DGIC

ECNL pretty decisive

Dallas Sting ECNL U14 2-1 Sting Central 00 - Parker
Dallas Texans ECNL U14 7-1 Solar Chelsea 00 - Missimo '00
Mustangs, FC 1-6 Solar Chelsea ECNL U-14
D'Feeters U14 ECNL 4-1 Andromeda 00 G

Packrabbit wrote:

Havingfunyet wrote:i think the LHCL gets if very close by division.  The only issue is when teams fold and the club replaces with a lesser team.  In some but not all cases that team is not competitive.  With that said, it only take 1 year for that team to earn a demotion or the better team to be promoted.  This is why i think it usually works out 80% that the division you are in is where you belong.

Fun, I agree--you are absolutely 100% correct. At some point, the bye was earned and it has to kept. Sometimes teams can't stay together, but the club and coach has earned the right to try to rebuild and keep the bye.  Some teams were absolutely better a few years ago for various reasons, ie other teams have just caught up, losses to ECNL, etc. ... sometimes circumstances give clubs & teams 2nd chances, and that is ok, I love 2nd chances.

Im just sayin' (this year especially), the division lines are blurred and talent is better dispersed among all of LH. Some rebuilt teams this year in D1-D3, are not as good as the the "lower ranked" team who stayed together a year ago. Right now, honestly, there are teams that may be playing in a division too high or low... But as the famous Client Eastwood quote goes, "Deserve ain't got nothin' to do with it...". I do know changing rules, making exceptions and/or reinventing the divisions on a yearly basis will never work.

Lastly, one thing people do forget is that "lower or mid level" successful or teams with great players do get raided by better "higher level" teams. I'm not so sure that is bad a thing. Some coaches get those players ready for better, higher competition, support their move up and don't make any apologies for it. They know they aren't helping a gifted soccer player by keeping them on a lower level team.

It's not my intention to point out who doesn't belong, but to just rank the top 20 teams in this age groups.

I disagree with your first point. Other than it being in the current rules, what gives the club and coach the right to try to rebuild and keep the bye? Where does this 'inherent" right come from? I'm too lazy to do the research, so response to this next question will give me some insight. When LH was initially established, was it's intent to provide a competitive forum open to all soccer teams to compete at the highest level or was it more like a private members only type deal? In other words did the league start out with it's current structure, for lack of a better term, or did it evolve into it's current state as money/influence began to be exerted?

One interrelated thought I have regarding your point about players being raided.. I submit to you that one of the main contributing factors to the raiding of great players on good "lower or mid level" teams by "higher level" teams is the current system. I believe the majority of those players would stay put if their current team was given the opportunity to compete at the highest level they are capable of based on their results on the field.

KNK, I think you are a bit off base on your one point. Even if all teams played each other and there was only one huge group, teams would still raid other teams. Coaches/teams want the best players on their teams. Teams would still lose players to moves, school, etc., and have to replace them.

Having everyone play everyone would not stop these activities.

In my experience in tournaments, playing top teams all the time can be frustrating and prove fruitless other than to give a team a taste of losing - sometimes in big ways. Yes, playing against better teams can push teams to be better, but it can also discourage a team so much that they fall apart. We see this all the time.

The divisions give teams at comparable levels an opportunity to grow and play peer groups. Some teams make it and some get replaced through QT. I understand that you feel your team should be placed higher. Had Wichita Falls folded before the last game, you would have made D2. However, that didn't happen. Call it fate, karma, Devine intervention, or something else, things fell the way they did.


If you play for an independent team because of what it offers, be that lower costs, a great coach, great practice location, etc., there could also be disadvantages.

There will always be advantages for larger clubs because of the money they represent. Perhaps you should consider creating a team federation of small teams under one umbrella such as the "Independent Teams Federation." You then could pay more money to people to manage the federation activities. The Federation could create rules to make all indies sister teams by different names. Then you could work on player passes, etc., between all the indies.

Otherwise, if you don't like the rules, submit change requests, lobby LH, start petitions, and so forth.

Ina, if a top notch player/or players is/are on a top notch team with a top notch coach and are happy with the other players and coach, what reason is there to leave that team, other than a change of residence?

And my issue isn't so much that I believe that we should be placed higher, although I think we are worthy, my issue is that teams are elevated/promoted/kept in place for reasons other than on the field results.

KnKsDad wrote:Ina, if a top notch player/or players is/are on a top notch team with a top notch coach, what reason is there to leave that team, other than a change of residence?

To get a more impressive looking window sticker on the back of their SUV...

I was first gonna edit then delete my post, but you jumped in too quick and blocked my move..lol

bwgophers wrote:

KnKsDad wrote:Ina, if a top notch player/or players is/are on a top notch team with a top notch coach, what reason is there to leave that team, other than a change of residence?

To get a more impressive looking window sticker on the back of their SUV...

Knk, there is Elite Soccer, there is ECNL, there is burn out, there is school, school sports, etc. Girls leave teams for a variety of reasons. Some girls need a change - they go as far as they can with a coach and need a change. Maybe their coach changes and the chemistry isn't right. Maybe another team participates in more showcase tournaments. So these are all reasons why a player would leave a top notch team and coach. That and as BW stated, that All Mighty Auto Sticker that proudly proclaims your child plays for XXXXXX club and team. That is always my motivator - that and great uniforms.

bwgophers wrote:

KnKsDad wrote:Ina, if a top notch player/or players is/are on a top notch team with a top notch coach, what reason is there to leave that team, other than a change of residence?

To get a more impressive looking window sticker on the back of their SUV...

You can get window stickers now? Must be one of those big club teams, who has all the money and influence...

You ever hear the adage that the best player on a (mid-level or lower) team isn't getting better?

KnKsDad wrote:Can't say I disagree with you on #1 and #2, but we're not talking U11. With respect to #3, I never said "there are so many great teams in lower divisions", but I will contend there were several better teams in D3 last year than teams that were in divisions above them. However this is a new year with a new set of variables, so we'll have to see how everything plays out. But I would not look at a single tournament result or a single game outcome, win or lose, to form a conclusion about a team, but would look at their overall body of work over time vs. higher ranked opponents.

Also, your comment about teams not able to win tournaments when higher seeded teams are present applies to those very same higher seeded teams that are present who also never win them. Only one team can win it. It's the overall performance that should be looked at. And frankly how often does it happen that lower division teams like in D3 for instance even get bracketed with D1/D2 teams in a major tournament? I can only speak for our team and say hardly ever.

Classic Elite would be a good upper level D2, mid level D1 team in the NTX. IMO, Classic would not have made it to the Gold Bracket's semi's or finals.

Upon additional research, CE won the STX State Cup and advanced to the knockout stage at Regionals along with Sting Flanagan. I would venture to say CE would definitely be a D1 team in NTX.

Just my 2 carrots worth, Mr Rabbit

Packrabbit wrote:

KnKsDad wrote:Can't say I disagree with you on #1 and #2, but we're not talking U11. With respect to #3, I never said "there are so many great teams in lower divisions", but I will contend there were several better teams in D3 last year than teams that were in divisions above them. However this is a new year with a new set of variables, so we'll have to see how everything plays out. But I would not look at a single tournament result or a single game outcome, win or lose, to form a conclusion about a team, but would look at their overall body of work over time vs. higher ranked opponents.

Also, your comment about teams not able to win tournaments when higher seeded teams are present applies to those very same higher seeded teams that are present who also never win them. Only one team can win it. It's the overall performance that should be looked at. And frankly how often does it happen that lower division teams like in D3 for instance even get bracketed with D1/D2 teams in a major tournament? I can only speak for our team and say hardly ever.

Classic Elite would be a good upper level D2, mid level D1 team in the NTX. IMO, Classic would not have made it to the Gold Bracket's semi's or finals.

You're just like Bugs, always starting some mess with poor old Elmer.. Did you mean to say "would not be a good..."? Otherwise, what you're saying reflects somewhat of a contradiction. First you say they would be a good upper level D2/midlevel D1 team in NTX, but also say they would not have made it to the Gold semis or finals. It is those very same level teams that comprised Gold with a mid level D1 NTX team winning it all, so how can you say that? What you say lacks credibility. The top 4 finishers (and maybe a couple others, too) in Silver A could have made it to the Gold semis/finals. Now would they have actually made it is another question. No doubt the road to get there would have presented much more of challenge, so the odds would be a little less favorable. No 12-0, 11-0 type blowouts along the way, but certainly doable. Are you prejudicially basing your opinion on the fact that CE beat a lowly D3 team twice along the way? My judgments are based on what actually happens on the field. Btw, did you even see any of the Silver A games involving said teams? I did, actually had a front row seat and there was some serious ball being played. Now please do tell, how is it that a #5 STX team (pre-tourney) makes it to Gold semis when a #4 STX team (pre-tourney) wouldn't have been able to? (Rankings have now have flipped - as a result of this tourney I assume). I know you're just trying to stir things up and I also realize I'm obliging you by responding, but I'm gonna tell it straight based on results/facts. Here's another little fun fact for you, CE beat Austin 2-0 back on April 13th. The only real question is why the final 4 in Silver A weren't grouped in Gold to begin with, but you need to direct that to the TD. So, what say ye? Or should I say, what up doc? Oh, and I'm no Elmer Fudd...lol

Just to clarify a couple of things: Looking up last season's results suggests the winning Gold team is not a "mid level D1" team. They were 4th in D1 last year and only point out of 3rd which qualified them to play Premier League. I also went back and looked at the Plano tournament results and it looks like they only had one goal scored against them by a D1 rival.

The promotion and relegation system rewards consistency and works. Sure, the top couple of teams in a given division are probably on par with the bottom couple of teams in the division above. But that stands to reason.

Also, basing judgement on tournament results is flawed since most of the better teams use them to learn, not necessarily win (big tournaments excepted). New formations, players in new positions, sometimes even new players can all color the outcome.

Lastly, the ECNL teams are good. Top D1 teams can't really touch the top ECNL teams. At best they can compete with the mid-level ECNL squads. And really, that's as it should be.