ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

by SWGSB 52 06/11/14, 03:42 pm

Since the 01G are roughly 1/2 way through this season, what are the thoughts of clubs keeping their LHGCL bye and dual rostering with their ECNL team vs clubs not keeping their byes and only focusing on ECNL?

Did holding the bye and running both teams have a significant impact on those 3 ECNL teams?

Did the LHGCL players get playing time in ECNL?

Was cost for both teams a deterrent?

How will this years experience/headache affect the 02G team formation for next year?

Do parents even care as long as they can say their DD is a rostered ECNL player?

I don't have an 01G player so I have no individual club or team insight. I'm just interested to see how this years experiment has worked out so far.

by Big Poppy 06/11/14, 04:43 pm

I would suggest you post the same questions after State Cup.

by Guest 06/11/14, 11:02 pm

Correct, after Kicks SC wins it. Very Happy

by Zizou 07/11/14, 06:33 am

It seems that the first half of the season the LHGCL and the ECNL schedules have overlapped and have not left many opportunities for players to play in both leagues. The second half of the ECNL league schedule is very light and should allow for more players to crossover and play LHGCL games.

by Guest 07/11/14, 08:17 am

MHO on the effect it has had on LHGCL...

1) For Solar and FC Dallas, it accomplished exactly what they wanted, which was to keep a presence in LHGCL D1 for the '01's.

2) For LHGCL, I think it's had minimal benefit from the standpoint of quality of players/quality of play in D1**, but if I take a step back and look at the bigger picture, unless LHGCL is willing to make radical changes along the lines of what Haterinho suggested in another thread, LHGCL is probably better off if the ECNL clubs can keep a presence in D1.

3) Based on 1 & 2, it still sucks big time for the smaller clubs/indy's, and will still lead to a general exodus of players from those clubs to the ECNL clubs at U14, and possibly even at U13 as parents jockey for position for their DD's.

4) I've heard that there have been some logistics/communication issues with the clubs that are using large numbers of dual-rostered players, especially as there have been several weekends this fall where there were direct conflicts between ECNL and LHGCL games. To no surprise, this affected the LHGCL game day rosters far more than the ECNL game day rosters. So my guess is, that in the future, you will see less dual-rostering UNLESS it is necessary for a club to retain a single team in D1. For example, in the future, in a situation like the '01's, you would still see Solar and FC Dallas use a lot of dual-roster players because they needed it for the club to have a team in D1, whereas Texans might take a different approach and be more willing to relinquish a bye since they would have still had 2 other teams in D1.

**Quality of play in D1 is still decent, and outside of Kicks, who to no one's surprise are dominating, my observation is that D1 has been VERY competitive between teams 2-9. However, after going and watching a couple of ECNL games this fall, there is still a HUGE difference in the speed and quality of play between ECNL and D1.

Whether or not they would acknowledge it publicly, my guess is that Kicks SC feels like they are getting much less out of LHGCL league games than they did the past couple of years. Hopefully PL and NL are giving them what they want/need.

by jm23jm 07/11/14, 09:10 am

[quote="bwgophers"]MHO on the effect it has had on LHGCL...

1) For Solar and FC Dallas, it accomplished exactly what they wanted, which was to keep a presence in LHGCL D1 for the '01's.

2) For LHGCL, I think it's had minimal benefit from the standpoint of quality of players/quality of play in D1**, but if I take a step back and look at the bigger picture, unless LHGCL is willing to make radical changes along the lines of what Haterinho suggested in another thread, LHGCL is probably better off if the ECNL clubs can keep a presence in D1.

3) Based on 1 & 2, it still sucks big time for the smaller clubs/indy's, and will still lead to a general exodus of players from those clubs to the ECNL clubs at U14, and possibly even at U13 as parents jockey for position for their DD's.

4) I've heard that there have been some logistics/communication issues with the clubs that are using large numbers of dual-rostered players, especially as there have been several weekends this fall where there were direct conflicts between ECNL and LHGCL games. To no surprise, this affected the LHGCL game day rosters far more than the ECNL game day rosters. So my guess is, that in the future, you will see less dual-rostering UNLESS it is necessary for a club to retain a single team in D1. For example, in the future, in a situation like the '01's, you would still see Solar and FC Dallas use a lot of dual-roster players because they needed it for the club to have a team in D1, whereas Texans might take a different approach and be more willing to relinquish a bye since they would have still had 2 other teams in D1.

**Quality of play in D1 is still decent, and outside of Kicks, who to no one's surprise are dominating, my observation is that D1 has been VERY competitive between teams 2-9. However, after going and watching a couple of ECNL games this fall, there is still a HUGE difference in the speed and quality of play between ECNL and D1.

Whether or not they would acknowledge it publicly, my guess is that Kicks SC feels like they are getting much less out of LHGCL league games than they did the past couple of years. Hopefully PL and NL are giving them what they want/need.[/quote}

LHGCL D1 is not as competitive as last year's D1 but it is still a good league. National league starts this month in North Carolina so looking forward to seeing how that plays out.

by voiceofreason 07/11/14, 05:56 pm

I agree with Zizou here, very little chance in fall season for cross over of ECNL/LHGCL play, will probably look alot different in spring with most of ECNL season gone. I also agree wth Gopher on one point, ECNL much faster and efficient game, at least with top ECNL teams. The dual rostwring works well for some girls who can play at both levels, have not seen alot of heavy ECNL presence so far for big clubs in LHGCL thus far due to overlap. I gueas we'll all see how spring goes, would have liked to have seen a more realistic Solar/Kicks game, maybe spring will give us that.

by Pinnochio 07/11/14, 09:53 pm

Gophers nailed it. League play remains competitive but only because the overall level of play dropped dramatically across all remaining teams not named Kicks. Hater wanted very very badly for his prediction to come true of this years league being more competitive than last year but predictably he was completely wrong. Its watered down and not much can be done about it.

Based on what I have seen this year, I would put Kicks right behind Solar-Texans-Sting and on par with Lonestar (ahead of FCDallas) as the lack of competition is catching up to them.

by Zizou 08/11/14, 06:43 am

LHGCL league will continue do decrease in quality as those players that show well and continue to develope will want to move up into the ECNL ranks. These LHGCL roster spots will be filled from the players wanting to move up from the lower divisions. This trend is nothing new for LHGCL since ECNL entered the mix.

by haterinho 08/11/14, 11:54 am

Pinnochio wrote:Gophers nailed it. League play remains competitive but only because the overall level of play dropped dramatically across all remaining teams not named Kicks. Hater wanted very very badly for his prediction to come true of this years league being more competitive than last year but predictably he was completely wrong. Its watered down and not much can be done about it.

Based on what I have seen this year, I would put Kicks right behind Solar-Texans-Sting and on par with Lonestar (ahead of FCDallas) as the lack of competition is catching up to them.

Against my better judgment I'll respond to this. I never predicted LH would be stronger than last year...that would be silly. I said IF the LH clubs keeping their byes actually were made to use the majority of their u13 rosters in LH, LH would be stronger than ECNL texas conference.

This was mentioned EARLY in the spring, BEFORE everyone realized the games LH allowed the clubs to play to keep their byes. Everyone had a good idea once we saw the clubs rostering up all comers into these "pools", it meant they were planning to field these brand new teams in LH and the top players from u13 were gone to ECNL no different than prior years. IMO LH ended up MUCH WORSE than had these clubs given up their byes, but that's my opinion. I guess on the plus side, we get to see a lot of the top '02 players as they get player passed so these ECNL holdover teams can make #s on conflict game days. LH is what it is.

I still hold to my original statement...IF LH could've enforced N+1, the league would've been better than '01 ECNL in texas. Nothing I've seen this fall changes my mind on that. There was all this talk about how strong South Texas and the non OFC Oklahoma team was....turned out to be bogus. You yourself hated on OFC as "average at best", turns out they're playing all over the metro on NTX ECNL teams. LOL. If they're so average why are they taking minutes on NTX ECNL teams?

If OFC were in ECNL as a unit they'd be top 3 easily, and the Tulsa and STX teams are equivalent to d2/d3 teams of u13 LH. There are 5 teams in texas conference ECNL that have a positive goal differential, and the GD for the bottom 5 suggests there is very little parity. That says to me if the talent had remained in LH, add in Kicks, and you absolutely would've had a league that was stronger than u14 ECNL with its watered down bottom half.

Kicks Gold + a handful of SC players already took Sting ECNL to the wire in plano labor day, so claims about the HUGE discrepancy between ECNL teams and LH teams are overstated, predictably.

As far as competition, ECNL texas conference top teams got 3 games against top competition this fall in league play. They will do a travel event where depending on the opponent, they may get two or three more. Give them 6 top quality games being generous. ECNL u14 is bloated with mediocre teams...you have socal which is stacked in their top half...then you have Hawks and Colorado...another handful of top teams out east, and the top 4 in NTX. Maybe 20-25 top quality teams. Huge swaths of the rest of the league is watered down...which can be seen by some of the goal differentials in their games. Colorado rush u14 beat an ECNL team 12-0.

Kicks on the other hand got OFC once, and their Texans game didn't have an ECNL conflict so Texans had quite a few ECNLers running around. Hopefully they get 4 quality games in national league...so give them 6 top quality fall opponents...being generous. I'll admit with the majority of those coming in one week, there's no question kicks has an uphill battle to maintain their level of play compared to the 4 ECNL teams.

It looks to me all this has done is watered down all of NTX soccer, with fewer competitive games played for the top teams, which gives STX and OK a chance to catch up. They look like the big winners @ u14 to me. Hopefully zizou's predictions come true and we see more ECNL players in LH for spring play.

by 1more_dd_dad 08/11/14, 12:09 pm

haterinho wrote:
Pinnochio wrote:Gophers nailed it. League play remains competitive but only because the overall level of play dropped dramatically across all remaining teams not named Kicks. Hater wanted very very badly for his prediction to come true of this years league being more competitive than last year but predictably he was completely wrong. Its watered down and not much can be done about it.

Based on what I have seen this year, I would put Kicks right behind Solar-Texans-Sting and on par with Lonestar (ahead of FCDallas) as the lack of competition is catching up to them.

Against my better judgment I'll respond to this. I never predicted LH would be stronger than last year...that would be silly. I said IF the LH clubs keeping their byes actually were made to use the majority of their u13 rosters in LH, LH would be stronger than ECNL texas conference.

This was mentioned EARLY in the spring, BEFORE everyone realized the games LH allowed the clubs to play to keep their byes. Everyone had a good idea once we saw the clubs rostering up all comers into these "pools", it meant they were planning to field these brand new teams in LH and the top players from u13 were gone to ECNL no different than prior years. IMO LH ended up MUCH WORSE than had these clubs given up their byes, but that's my opinion. I guess on the plus side, we get to see a lot of the top '02 players as they get player passed so these ECNL holdover teams can make #s on conflict game days. LH is what it is.

I still hold to my original statement...IF LH could've enforced N+1, the league would've been better than '01 ECNL in texas. Nothing I've seen this fall changes my mind on that. There was all this talk about how strong South Texas and the non OFC Oklahoma team was....turned out to be bogus. You yourself hated on OFC as "average at best", turns out they're playing all over the metro on NTX ECNL teams. LOL. If they're so average why are they taking minutes on NTX ECNL teams?

If OFC were in ECNL as a unit they'd be top 3 easily, and the Tulsa and STX teams are equivalent to d2/d3 teams of u13 LH. There are 5 teams in texas conference ECNL that have a positive goal differential, and the GD for the bottom 5 suggests there is very little parity. That says to me if the talent had remained in LH, add in Kicks, and you absolutely would've had a league that was stronger than u14 ECNL with its watered down bottom half.

Kicks Gold + a handful of SC players already took Sting ECNL to the wire in plano labor day, so claims about the HUGE discrepancy between ECNL teams and LH teams are overstated, predictably.

As far as competition, ECNL texas conference top teams got 3 games against top competition this fall in league play. They will do a travel event where depending on the opponent, they may get two or three more. Give them 6 top quality games being generous. ECNL u14 is bloated with mediocre teams...you have socal which is stacked in their top half...then you have Hawks and Colorado...another handful of top teams out east, and the top 4 in NTX. Maybe 15-20 top quality teams. Huge swaths of the rest of the league is watered down...which can be seen by some of the goal differentials in their games. Colorado rush u14 beat an ECNL team 12-0.

Kicks on the other hand got OFC once, and their Texans game didn't have an ECNL conflict so Texans had quite a few ECNLers running around. Hopefully they get 4 quality games in national league...so give them 6 top quality fall opponents...being generous. I'll admit with the majority of those coming in one week, there's no question kicks has an uphill battle to maintain their level of play compared to the 4 ECNL teams.

It looks to me all this has done is watered down all of NTX soccer, with fewer competitive games played for the top teams, which gives STX and OK a chance to catch up. They look like the big winners @ u14 to me. Hopefully zizou's predictions come true and we see more ECNL players in LH for spring play.

Out of sheer curiosity, with all of this knowledge you must have watched what, ten, twenty ECNL games? I think your opinion is dated. To compare a static Kicks team that had been playing top competition all summer against a newly formed Sting team is being disingenuous at best. I guess all of this will be a moot point after the Intl. Cup...

by haterinho 08/11/14, 12:31 pm

1more_dd_dad wrote:
Out of sheer curiosity, with all of this knowledge you must have watched what, ten, twenty ECNL games? I think your opinion is dated. To compare a static Kicks team that had been playing top competition all summer against a newly formed Sting team is being disingenuous at best. I guess all of this will be a moot point after the Intl. Cup...

Static kicks team? What in sam hill are you talking about? LOL. Kicks Gold had played less than Sting ECNL that summer. There were 2 defenders and 2 midfielders from SC that guested with them. I'll grant you Sting ECNL was newly formed, but if this disparity is as great as claimed, Sting ECNL should've wiped a D2 LH team off the face of plano. LOL. They sure had no problem wiping up most the STX and Oklahoma ECNL teams.

I'm sure Sting ECNL has gotten better since Labor Day, heck I'm sure dfeeters ECNL has as well. But the idea kicks must have REGRESSED, while everyone else is necessarily better, since they haven't faced off against these powerhouses in texas conference ECNL, the best of which are primarily composed of the same players we've seen in LH for years? Well...umm...yeah, I guess we'll see come intl cup.

by Zizou 08/11/14, 04:19 pm

Wow, to many what ifs, hads, and could have beens. We all have our opinions. Let the girls play! Live with your choice, whatever it is LCHCL or ECNL.

by 1more_dd_dad 08/11/14, 05:12 pm

haterinho wrote:
1more_dd_dad wrote:
Out of sheer curiosity, with all of this knowledge you must have watched what, ten, twenty ECNL games? I think your opinion is dated. To compare a static Kicks team that had been playing top competition all summer against a newly formed Sting team is being disingenuous at best. I guess all of this will be a moot point after the Intl. Cup...

Static kicks team? What in sam hill are you talking about? LOL. Kicks Gold had played less than Sting ECNL that summer. There were 2 defenders and 2 midfielders from SC that guested with them. I'll grant you Sting ECNL was newly formed, but if this disparity is as great as claimed, Sting ECNL should've wiped a D2 LH team off the face of plano. LOL. They sure had no problem wiping up most the STX and Oklahoma ECNL teams.

I'm sure Sting ECNL has gotten better since Labor Day, heck I'm sure dfeeters ECNL has as well. But the idea kicks must have REGRESSED, while everyone else is necessarily better, since they haven't faced off against these powerhouses in texas conference ECNL, the best of which are primarily composed of the same players we've seen in LH for years? Well...umm...yeah, I guess we'll see come intl cup.

Just going on the word that there hasn't been a lot of Kicks turnover and the teams practice together a lot. It would be a pretty static group of girls that usually practice together and are familiar with one another. BTW, no need to scream, I didn't say kicks has REGRESSED...

by haterinho 08/11/14, 07:18 pm

1more_dd_dad wrote:
Just going on the word that there hasn't been a lot of Kicks turnover and the teams practice together a lot. It would be a pretty static group of girls that usually practice together and are familiar with one another. BTW, no need to scream, I didn't say kicks has REGRESSED...

Kicks SC didn't have much turnover. Kicks Gold did. I don't know all the #s, but by percentage, I'd wager kicks gold had as many new players as did Sting Flanagan. And you should read my posts as if I'm laughing, not screaming - that's what's going on while I respond to this stuff. In due time it will work itself out on the field, as it always has in the past.

by Pinnochio 09/11/14, 11:25 am

haterinho wrote:In due time it will work itself out on the field, as it always has in the past.

Finally something that I agree with

The rest is the same garbage you have been rolling out for years now. To compare last years rosters to this years rosters for the Ecnl teams is laughable. They are all better across the board as the majority of D1 talent beyond Kicks nation jumped to Ecnl teams and left little behind. And to now pump up OFC as some sort of national ranked team is even funnier. Keep trying to convince yourself of that one.

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ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye

Re: ECNL teams keeping LHGCL bye vs not keeping bye