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DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

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DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by db10 on 15/07/17, 08:46 am


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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by banana kick on 15/07/17, 11:44 am

Thanks for posting this. This is very enlightening.
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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by Sho'Nuff on 15/07/17, 11:54 am

There's so many differences between the U.S. and the rest of the World. It seems like quite a leap to conclude that our substitution rules allow for more younger players. I would guess U.S. wealth and involved parents is the driver.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by Zizou on 15/07/17, 12:06 pm

college coaches and the college game is what could be holding our player development back. Bigger, faster, stronger, boot ball , and less interested in developing players. I understand keeping their jobs with wins and also having only 4 years with players.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by db10 on 15/07/17, 01:51 pm

Zizou wrote:college coaches and the college game is what could be holding our player development back. Bigger, faster, stronger, boot ball , and less interested in developing players. I understand keeping their jobs with wins and also having only 4 years with players.
How many national team players did not attend college?

So let's say you eliminate college from the picture, because obviously you believe it's nothing but detrimental to the development of players. Now tell me where the carrot is? The .00001% chance of a player making the national team? The allure of a $13,000 contract with the Thorns? Or maybe a €20,000 a year contract with Lyon?

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by Zizou on 15/07/17, 02:41 pm

10- nothing said that an education was the problem. The college game and the development of players. The balance between getting an education and playing within a pro setting is very much obtainable. Pro teams and players will be able to find a balance between training and allowing players time to also get college credit. It already happens with a high school diploma. I completely agree that women players will need to be able to attend classes and continue their education while playing the game they love at the pro level. Players could forgo the college game if assured a college was available to them. Pretty damn difficult to get a nursing degree while playing college soccer.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by db10 on 15/07/17, 02:47 pm

Zizou wrote:10- nothing said that an education was the problem. The college game and the development of players. The balance between getting an education and playing within a pro setting is very much obtainable. Pro teams and players will be able to find a balance between training and allowing players time to also get college credit. It already happens with a high school diploma. I completely agree that women players will need to be able to attend classes and continue their education while playing the game they love at the pro level.
This "Pro" level you speak of barely exisists. How much do you think your DD will make in the NWSL?


Last edited by db10 on 15/07/17, 04:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by Zizou on 15/07/17, 02:56 pm

i know it's a long shot and at this time the college route is what best for players. Women's pro teams will continue to find ways to keep players in their academy's while playing college soccer and picking them up after getting their education. The women's pro basketball league has grown into a self sustained intity, so it is possible women's soccer could do the same.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by db10 on 15/07/17, 04:46 pm

So using that theory how does a NTX player get on a professional team? Are you conducting a draft out of high school with the idea that the pro team will allow the player to spend 4-6 years in college? Or do you think a $15,000 a year salary will convince girls to go to night school for 10 years?

No league in the world does that. The only situation vaguely similar is a team allowing a player to serve their military obligation.

In Europe a teenager is signed to a contract with a club. That club then houses, feeds, and "educates" the kid. The education is basically GED level home schooling. Don't believe me, discuss something more complicated than ordering fast food with Wayne Rooney. The return for gambling a child's future is a multi million dollar professional contract, something a league with a TEAM salary cap of $250k a year can't approach.

Add to that the kids are signed to a local club first then are usually bought by one of the bigger clubs. So the family is usually close to where the child is living. The ones that are sent off further are usually future superstars or are from disadvantaged homes from smaller countries such as Messi and Barca. The parents see that as their only shot at a better life for their child.

Simply put a financially limited club in a financially limited league isn't doing any of this, they can't.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by soccerjack on 15/07/17, 06:15 pm

db10 wrote:
Zizou wrote:10- nothing said that an education was the problem. The college game and the development of players. The balance between getting an education and playing within a pro setting is very much obtainable. Pro teams and players will be able to find a balance between training and allowing players time to also get college credit. It already happens with a high school diploma. I completely agree that women players will need to be able to attend classes and continue their education while playing the game they love at the pro level.
This "Pro" level you speak of barely exisists. How much do you think your DD will make in the NWSL?

Thank you. Not to sound cynical...but you're spot on. This is an expensive hobby for most kids to keep them involved and out of trouble. Some will play in college, most just want to play in hs. I laugh at someone worrying about development in college...that's pretty much the end of the road for most female soccer players and I would hope they have enough sense to get a good degree in college over worrying about more soccer development.
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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by Zizou on 15/07/17, 06:18 pm

Let the college coach know your going to come on his scholarship and get a nursing degree. See what he says!

College will not be a destination for all players. For those players that struggle in school and soccer is something the excel in could choose the pro route. Look at what some of these coaches at the club are making. Who knows, pro experience and training could turn you a pretty penny.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by soccerjack on 15/07/17, 06:41 pm

Zizou wrote:Let the college coach know your going to come on his scholarship and get a nursing degree. See what he says!

College will not be a destination for all players. For those players that struggle in school and soccer is something the excel in could choose the pro route. Look at what some of these coaches at the club are making. Who knows, pro experience and training could turn you a pretty penny.

Douche' to each their own. You are correct though...tons of money to be made in this money grab we call soccer. I'm pushing my kid toward nursing school and academic scholarships. I do agree with your point though.
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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by soccerjack on 15/07/17, 06:53 pm

Sorry z, I either had a Freudian slip or was auto corrected from touché.
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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by KeeperCommander on 15/07/17, 08:50 pm

Zizou wrote:Let the college coach know your going to come on his scholarship and get a nursing degree. See what he says!
Just about every college coach I ever talked with said the same thing to every player. "Better get that degree, and in something you enjoy as much as sports". Reality, injury or life will always win out except for the select few.
First you have to live the scholarship before you speak of the scholarship.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by Female Messy on 15/07/17, 08:57 pm

Sorry guys, ncaa will NEVER play well with pro leagues, ever. And pro women leagues will NEVER make enough money to make it feasible for anyone other than the .0000000001% that could actually make a living at it, do it. So, if you have a daughter that is decently gifted athletically, push her academically in school, seek that 50-75% college scholarship that is out there (thank you title 9), keep pushing her to learn the life lessons that being an athlete exposes her to, and enjoy watching your kid grow. It is really that easy.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by KeeperCommander on 15/07/17, 08:58 pm

Thread is even bringing out the first time posters.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by Female Messy on 15/07/17, 09:08 pm


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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by soccerjack on 15/07/17, 10:02 pm


Bustin out ice t?  What about vanilla ice or Carlton?  This is a make believe suburban sport....it's more like a Carlton break dance.


Last edited by soccerjack on 15/07/17, 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by CrazySoccerParent on 15/07/17, 10:03 pm

Oh man. An ice T video. Love it. I need a new screen name. Rankings are so 2016...
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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by db10 on 15/07/17, 11:34 pm

Zizou wrote:Let the college coach know your going to come on his scholarship and get a nursing degree. See what he says!

What?!? I can just hear Paul Ratcliffe now..."Suzy, we'd love for you to join our program at Stanford and are offering a full scholarship to do so. However, we need you to know that our staff believes your education is secondary."

Zizou wrote:College will not be a destination for all players. For those players that struggle in school and soccer is something the excel in could choose the pro route. Look at what some of these coaches at the club are making. Who knows, pro experience and training could turn you a pretty penny.

So in this case you're proposing that Suzy, not being very bright, decides to sign away her NCAA eligibility in order to sign a $15,000 per year professional contract. But if everything works out she may have the opportunity after her career to make a living coaching.

Ok, first of all your original theory of a player signing a contract with a club then going to college while part of that club is in direct conflict with every NCAA rule in the book.

Next, I believe only a handful of NWSL players did not attend college. And by handful I'm talking single digits. In fact I only know of 2, Pugh and Moran, both of whom were already members of the USWNT. Now I don't claim to be an expert on every player in the NWSL, I mean who can know every player on every team in a league?  tongue But that's what I've googled.

Finally, the average D1 college coach makes about $60k per a 2013 NCSAA survey. According to that same survey 85 out of 86 of those coaches have a college degree themselves. I guess the average AD at an institution of high learning would shy away from having a member of their staff that does not feel that education isn't a priority.

So you're banking on the .0001% chance a non college women's soccer player does get a professional contract and then the 1% chance they can get a top coaching position afterwards. If that's the case I might suggest that Suzy starts a career at McDonald's and within the same time frame she'd be making a decent living as a manager.

Listen, at this point the NWSL still relies on half the rosters being "amateur" meaning "we don't have to pay them". They do this so an Alex Morgan can play and try to draw people in while clubs stay afloat. A league at that stage is in no position to steer a girl away from college.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by Zizou on 16/07/17, 07:38 am

Yeah, no shit d-10,at this time. Never say never. Same things were said about the WNBA and even MLS in their start up days. Plus, no one said girls going to college to play were signing pro contracts. Returning in the summer to play with the U-23's and maintaining a relationship with a club while getting an education and playing ball is happening as we speak. More and more over time that feel college is not right for them will start signing contracts with these pro sides. I for one want the women's pro game to succeed giving college players an those who choose to forgo college an opportunity to succeed. Oh, by the way, just because you go pro does not mean you cannot get your degree.

Dude, we also need more female coaches working with our youth players. These male select coaches don't do to bad from the money they make coaching youth soccer. For those that do decide to go to , as you call it night school while playing could come away with their teaching certification once their playing days are done.

All things change. To be so closed minded about change is , well what this board and the people on it most often are. Options babe, they are comming.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by Zizou on 16/07/17, 07:55 am

KeeperCommander wrote:
Zizou wrote:Let the college coach know your going to come on his scholarship and get a nursing degree. See what he says!
Just about every college coach I ever talked with said the same thing to every player. "Better get that degree, and in something you enjoy as much as sports".  Reality, injury or life will always win out except for the select few.
First you have to live the scholarship before you speak of the scholarship.

Yep, you have been fed the company line. Their are a lot of useless degrees that can be obtained. Players return to college after their eligibility to further their education just to have a diploma that could sustain a life and family.

Hmmmm, speaking of scholarship. You don't know me.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by db10 on 16/07/17, 09:55 am

Still wondering how a player signs a pro contract and then plays in college.

From NCAA.com

"In general, amateurism requirements do not allow:
Contracts with professional teams
Salary for participating in athletics
Prize money above actual and necessary expenses
Play with professionals
Tryouts, practice or competition with a professional team
Benefits from an agent or prospective agent
Agreement to be represented by an agent
Delayed initial full-time collegiate enrollment to participate in organized sports competition"

I'm also confused why you start off by saying girls don't need college, they can go pro and become a wealthy coach somewhere. Now you're saying players are returning to college to get a diploma "that could sustain a life and family". But if they're pulling in the big bucks why return? Where are all these players obtaining "useless degrees" playing because looking quickly at some rosters I see:

Mechanical Engineering
Psychology
International Relations
Computer Science
Economics

These aren't football players, you don't go to a NCAA program if your grades aren't good.

You keep bringing up the WNBA as if the majority of players were drafted out of High School...I can't see that being true. During the 20 years of the league 2 players were drafted in the first round that did not attend a US college. They were both players from overseas.

I'm not saying a non college path to the pros shouldn't exist, I'm saying that the likelihood of sustaining a living on that money is equivalent to lead being transmuted to gold.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by Zizou on 16/07/17, 10:31 am

Dude, they have amateur teams within the club that sit under the pros. The u-23's play a summer schedule that returning college players can participate in maintaining their amateur status. I would play semi pro in the summer to stay sharp for the college season. College is a viable option for those that can handle the academics. Not all players fit this mold!

No one said girls don't need to go to college. saying that college is the only option will begin to change as the women's game continues to grow.

If you don't think these youth coaches are not making money from the vast number of players paying to play in the system. You need to look again.

Just like anything, players will have options. I understand it is hard for you to except change. I'm not going to say one way is better for anyone when players have different needs. College education is an great option, but one size does not fit all.

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Re: DA vs ECNL, Look who's talking

Post by db10 on 16/07/17, 11:09 am

You have to make up your mind, one moment you're talking about the pro level, the next semi-pro U23's. One moment you talk about Pro teams locking up players prior to attending college the next your saying they can play in those same u23's to "stay in shape".

So by U23 are you talking WPSL or just some miscellaneous amateur league? If the answer is WPSL please point out the players on FCD (close to home) that are currently playing in college while playing in the league.




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