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'04 LH QT Predictions

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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 01:41 pm

weatherbug wrote:
10sDad wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
allhatnocattle wrote:
onlythetruth wrote:Oh, please.

The object of soccer is . . . to win games.

You win games by . . . scoring goals.

So don't give me this nonsense about the importance of "possession" soccer, or defending for that matter - the team that scores more, wins more.

Teams that win, advance.  Kids that win, are seen by scouts.

Heck, look at LH qualifying last weekened.  They rewarded goals scored in the tie-breaker up to 8.  All of the D1 qualifiers were the highest scoring teams.

Best way to score goals?  It starts with speed and athleticism.  Get some fast, athletic kids and get them the ball.  With enough fast kids, you don't really have to rely on your defense or goalkeeper.

A team kicking the ball from side-to-side (or especially backwards), isn't kicking it in the direction that matters - into the goal!

As a counter-argument, I'd say to go look at the team which just won D3 in the '01 Group.  They scored 54 goals and gave up only 8.  They play possession soccer.  They move the ball from side-to-side and backwards.

...and by the way, for 10sDad's sake...  this team is prime example to make his point that possession can be taught and both players and a team can improve over time relative to the rest of the "boot it far" teams in NTX, but it also makes MY case regarding athleticism and ECNL...

The team in question has been together under the same coach going all the way back to at least U10, if not farther.  This coach teaches and preaches possession soccer.  This team played in D3 from U11-U13.  They took their lumps at U10-U11, but the coach stuck to his guns, and was able to get his players and parents to buy in and stay the course.  This team started to turn the corner, and some heads, at U12, and as stated, won D3 handily at U13, and wouldn't be surprised if they are challenging to win D2 at U14.  This team plays some of the best possession soccer in the '01 age group, and on any given day, they can give just about all of the current D1 teams a run for their money.

The exceptions would be Kicks SC '01, and the 5 ECNL teams.  Why???  Because Sting North Blue just doesn't have the top end athletes to match up with these teams, and even their solid possession game is not enough to overcome the difference in athleticism, underscored by the fact that Sting North Blue only had 1 player from their U13 roster, make an ECNL roster at U14.

There is merit to the argument that as time goes on, the playing field will level out somewhat with regards to skill/possession vs. athleticism/bootball, but that only carries so far, and at the top level (ECNL, Premier League/National League, NCAA D1, and beyond...) athleticism is the lowest common denominator amongst all of those players.
Now....imagine that Sting North Blue had the spectacular athletes as well, and they stayed together and played possession soccer like they do....they would be virtually unstoppable, wouldn't they?

So, the spectacular athletes with size/speed go the bootball route, while the less athletic players go the possession route in order to (eventually) counter the bootball.  Meaning that ultimately, none of them are good enough to go to the next level...and NTX wins youth championships.  The system is broken.

Sting North 01 parent here... I'd just like to point out that we had exactly one girl try out for ECNL.  A lot of us made the choice to stay with Coach Reagan Angell because we believe in his philosophy and methods.  We feel the girls who want to make the transition to ECNL in 9th or even 10th grade can still get the benefit of ECNL later, but we are happy where we are this year.  Individually girls are out doing some things to get competition at the highest levels- Sting's ETA program, ODP etc.  We had 2 girls make the 01 ODP Regional pool and one make Honorable Mention for the Regional Pool in the 00s. (NTX only had 1 girl make the 00 pool and placed 7 on the Honorable Mention list).  Puberty has been kind to a few of the girls. Wink  I feel like there will be a place for them to compete at the highest levels when they are ready to make the move and they will be Very technically sound when they do.  We have girls who were always athletic enough to play D1.  We just like what we have going on where we are.

 cheers cheers cheers 

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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 01:43 pm

They will lose some games. No doubt. IT SHOULDNT FREAKING MATTER THIS EARLY ON.

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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 02:11 pm

NTX is not winning youth championships with teams that can't play good soccer. LOL. Maybe that could be said in past eras, but the competition is too good, too deep, and too skillful for that now. If you see a NTX team win an ECNL or USYS Youth championship these days, most likely they know how to play. Go look at the commit list for the players off the Sting u17 that won ECNL this year. You don't get recruited by those caliber of schools if you're tactically clueless.

The system IS NOT broken because parents have plenty of choices in this market, and there are plenty of resources available to help one gauge their child's development.

If some want to choose winning over development, there are options for that. Nothing wrong with that choice. Not everyone has a kid that still wants to be doing this 5 years from now. If your kid wants to build a certain level of technical excellence, there are options for that too.

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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 02:12 pm

10sDad wrote:
Now....imagine that Sting North Blue had the spectacular athletes as well, and they stayed together and played possession soccer like they do....they would be virtually unstoppable, wouldn't they?

Yup.  As 4-3-3 stated, it's called Michigan Hawks '01, or, in more local terms that everyone may be familiar with... SRSA '03 (as long as the 2 extremely athletic/extremely skilled studs are playing with them and not the '02's) or Sting '97 ECNL.

The trick is getting a large number of the most athletic and skilled players together on the same team under a coach(es) that can and will develop them as total players and not just rely purely on athleticism.

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Post by adufresne on 29/07/14, 03:47 pm

PurplePonyPower wrote:
dreadpirateroberts wrote:It's not that the posession style isn't effective, more so that in the win now era, the top talent girls on those teams get poached by teams playing bootball and winning.  Likely beacuse the parents feel pressure to have their daughter on a "top team".
So name the top teams playing bootball?



Here's a hint.....if you're coach or parents are yelling. "Send it!" From the sidelines, you're playing "kickball". If your coach or parents are yelling, "clear it!" When your defender gets the ball in their box with no one around them, then you're playing "kickball." If a player on your team receives the ball and just kicks it as hard and as far as they can, you're playing "kickball." You're coach has not instructed them to receive the ball and look for options and choose the best one. But hey, if you're winning, it's all good, right?

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Post by Peak_Performance_Dad on 29/07/14, 03:49 pm

bwgophers wrote:
SocDad wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
Unicorns wrote:So what you are saying is a team can play great possession soccer, develop the way all on here would say is best, but yet as individuals the players don't make the top teams because of lack of athletic ability?  

That is what I thought you were saying all along and I think you are right.  You have to be fast and skilled to make top teams.

At least someone on this board scored pretty high on their verbal SAT's...  Very Happy 

If a Foward is leaving thier end of the Pitch at 10 miles an hour and a defender is leaving thier end at 15 miles and hour....how long will it take for a collission to happen at the midfiled line?  affraid

The correct answer is "No. The NTX CR will not give a yellow card on the play."

Best answer I have seen to a question posed on the Forum all month - exactly right Smile
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Post by adufresne on 29/07/14, 03:50 pm

One more.....if your opponent is chasing balls in the parking lot or 3 fields over, you're playing "kickball."

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Post by 10sDad on 29/07/14, 04:29 pm

I will say it again...NTX builds football players, not soccer players.

If your dd is not in D1 by now, and she is under 5'2" at age 10, give up now because its all over for her in NTX.  (unless daddy is a coach)

And based upon most responses, there is no changing it.
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Post by GrandTXSoccer on 29/07/14, 04:47 pm

Depends on who the coach is yelling "send it" to, if it's your defenders then yeah I'd say you are definitely playing kick ball. If he's yelling at his midfield to send the ball through a channel to a forward or other mid then it's probably not kick ball.

On all your other points I would agree with your definition. The one that always killed me as my DD got older and started moving away from the top level leagues and into more of the HS/Plano Leagues was the number of times defenders would see a ball rolling at them and just run up and kick it as hard as possible. Who knows where the heck the ball is going but the parents would still cheer wildly.

To me, direct style soccer is taught by parents and people simply not capable of teaching anything else. That's not to say that you can't win by using it, just limits the future opportunities your DD might have in the world of soccer if you aren't taught to look up before you actually kick the ball.

10sdad, that's simply not true about the size thing, look around at some of the top teams and if the kid is talented enough she will play doesn't matter if she can walk under a the kitchen table and never have to duck. If you can play and are a good enough athlete to keep up then you will play. Now it doesn't matter if you are the most technically proficient player and can see the field like a pro if you are slower than molasses and can't get to where you need to be. Quite honestly if by the time you are in HS if you are around 5'4 to 5'7 (5'4 is the average height for a woman) you are a good enough height to play in college (although, once again I've yet to talk to a college coach that ever said, "man that girl can play, too bad she's not 5'8") . You want to know what really holds kids back? Dumb parents sticking with bad coaches, all the time I tell folks when their kids are young to look around, check out other teams and practices but about 70 to 80 percent of the time I get the response "she's playing with her friends and all the parents are like family, we just can't leave them."

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Post by Gunner9 on 29/07/14, 04:52 pm

Watched the Portland-Boston women's pro game last week. Three players that I know from their youth days here in TX.

5'2", 5'3" and one giant at 5'4". All 3 played on various youth Nat'l teams. The kid that won the Hermann trophy twice is 5'6" on a good day and slight. There are countless others that played at ND, UNC. UVA, etc. that somehow survived and excelled among the football players. There will be countless more.

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Post by Guest on 29/07/14, 05:00 pm

GrandTXSoccer wrote:Depends on who the coach is yelling "send it" to, if it's your defenders then yeah I'd say you are definitely playing kick ball. If he's yelling at his midfield to send the ball through a channel to a forward or other mid then it's probably not kick ball.

On all your other points I would agree with your definition. The one that always killed me as my DD got older and started moving away from the top level leagues and into more of the HS/Plano Leagues was the number of times defenders would see a ball rolling at them and just run up and kick it as hard as possible. Who knows where the heck the ball is going but the parents would still cheer wildly.

To me, direct style soccer is taught by parents and people simply not capable of teaching anything else. That's not to say that you can't win by using it, just limits the future opportunities your DD might have in the world of soccer if you aren't taught to look up before you actually kick the ball.

10sdad, that's simply not true about the size thing, look around at some of the top teams and if the kid is talented enough she will play doesn't matter if she can walk under a the kitchen table and never have to duck. If you can play and are a good enough athlete to keep up then you will play. Now it doesn't matter if you are the most technically proficient player and can see the field like a pro if you are slower than molasses and can't get to where you need to be.  Quite honestly if by the time you are in HS if you are around 5'4 to 5'7 (5'4 is the average height for a woman) you are a good enough height to play in college (although, once again I've yet to talk to a college coach that ever said, "man that girl can play, too bad she's not 5'8") . You want to know what really holds kids back? Dumb parents sticking with bad coaches, all the time I tell folks when their kids are young to look around, check out other teams and practices but about 70 to 80 percent of the time I get the response "she's playing with her friends and all the parents are like family, we just can't leave them."

Spot on here with all your points. Height is a non factor if the kid can play. Wouldn't even put 5'4 as an arbitrary cut off. Crystal Dunn will go down as a UNC all time great, and has already been called into the WNT. She's 5'1.

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Post by adufresne on 29/07/14, 05:15 pm

I think 10sdad was using a bit of sarcasm with the height comment. Soccer is actually one of the very few sports where a player doesn't have to meet prototypical standards to be considered for opportunities at higher levels. If you can play, you'll get your shot. If you're good enough, you'll get more. Bottom line is that players have to have the skill set AND knowledge required to get those opportunities.

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Post by Peak_Performance_Dad on 02/08/14, 10:27 pm

SocDad wrote:
loyalsoccermom wrote:Sting Donavan v FCD Boyles was a little bit closer than predicted. Great game FCD!

That game should have been 8-0 Sting or more.....if it weren't for FCD's Keeper .  She was amazing.....She probably had over 20 saves!!!!!!!!  (BTW, she's not my DD)

Kudos to her and FCD Boyles team.

Did Boyles get a new Keeper - Looks like Andromeda put 5 in the back of the net tonight against Boyles . . .
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Post by SocDad on 02/08/14, 10:44 pm

Peak_Performance_Dad wrote:
SocDad wrote:
loyalsoccermom wrote:Sting Donavan v FCD Boyles was a little bit closer than predicted. Great game FCD!

That game should have been 8-0 Sting or more.....if it weren't for FCD's Keeper .  She was amazing.....She probably had over 20 saves!!!!!!!!  (BTW, she's not my DD)

Kudos to her and FCD Boyles team.

Did Boyles get a new Keeper - Looks like Andromeda put 5 in the back of the net tonight against Boyles . . .

By my advantage point......it appeared to be the same GK'er.
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